Devastator Hornresp Tutorial - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 9Likes
  • 4 Post By Red Five
  • 5 Post By Falonious
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 01-24-2020, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,622
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked: 902
Devastator Hornresp Tutorial

This is a tutorial for simulating a sub woofer in a Devastator cabinet using Hornresp It is a work in progress for now. The simulation will be a Mini Devastator 18" using a SAF184.03.

Real quick refresher for the Devastators. The Devastators use two resonators, one on the front of the sub and one on the back. The front resonator is a quarter wave resonator (QW) and the rear resonator is a Helmholtz resonator a.k.a bass reflex/ported/vented. The Devastator is a 6th order band pass arrangement. The horn section is non flared, just a straight tube. The driver is in an offset alignment with no throat chamber. You might notice OD in red in the input menu, Offset Driver is what that stands for.

First I am going to talk about this mystery screen that welcomes us when we open up Hornresp. I have data populated in here from my Mini Devastator with my SAN184.03s. The input Window is one of the most intimidating parts of the program, it is not that hard to work with once you get more familiar with what everything means.

The first box is for the space in which we are simulating the subwoofer system. Right now it is set for being in the middle of an open field with one boundary underneath the enclosure. This is comparable to what we are use to seeing in WinISD.





This box is for the input voltage into the woofer. I will touch on this later, right now it is 1 watt into 5.5 Ohms. I am skipping over Rg and Fta since they are not required for Devastator simulation.




The data in these boxes represents the cross sectional opening of our front QW/horn resonator. It is expressed in cm2, I added a shot of what that corresponds to in the cabinet.




This is staring up the horn, I removed the bottom, the port board and rails that would be obscuring this viewing angle. The cross sectional area of the horn is inside the red boxes. 22.5"x8.5" is the calculated area for this box if memory serves me.





This is the length of our QW/horn resonator. The top number is from the top end of the horn to the center of the woofer. The bottom number is from the center of the woofer to the bass of the horn. I added a CAD screen shot to show roughly how the two segments line up.






The boxes highlighted below represent the parameters of the sub woofer we are simulating, more on that later.


Vrc is the volume of the rear chamber/Helmholtz resonator expressed in liters.




Lrc is the length of the rear chamber, not super critical, but it can show rear chamber resonances in more detail. Standing waves become more of an issue once the chamber exceeds 48 inches.


Ap is the cross sectional area of the port expressed in cm2.


Lpt is the length of the port expressed in cm. Vtc and Atc are not used for simulating a Devastator.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	HR Tutorial input window 3.jpg
Views:	201
Size:	61.3 KB
ID:	2675162   Click image for larger version

Name:	HR Tutorial input window 2.jpg
Views:	200
Size:	60.1 KB
ID:	2675164   Click image for larger version

Name:	HR Tutorial input window 1.jpg
Views:	201
Size:	60.1 KB
ID:	2675166   Click image for larger version

Name:	HR Tutorial input window 11.jpg
Views:	180
Size:	58.1 KB
ID:	2675168   Click image for larger version

Name:	HR Tutorial input window 10.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	57.9 KB
ID:	2675170  

Click image for larger version

Name:	HR Tutorial input window 8.jpg
Views:	179
Size:	58.0 KB
ID:	2675174   Click image for larger version

Name:	HR Tutorial input window 7.jpg
Views:	179
Size:	62.0 KB
ID:	2675176   Click image for larger version

Name:	HR Tutorial input window 6.jpg
Views:	232
Size:	40.9 KB
ID:	2675178   Click image for larger version

Name:	HR Tutorial input window 5.jpg
Views:	188
Size:	59.3 KB
ID:	2675180   Click image for larger version

Name:	HR Tutorial input window 4.jpg
Views:	234
Size:	53.6 KB
ID:	2675182  

Click image for larger version

Name:	HR Tutorial input window 9.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	58.0 KB
ID:	2675244  

Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Mini Devastator Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators

Last edited by Red Five; 01-24-2020 at 12:13 PM.
Red Five is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 01-24-2020, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,622
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked: 902
The next topic is the input wizard. It is the easiest path when starting out for setting up all the fields necessary for simulating a Devastator.



This is what HR looks like when you first open it up, this is the default record.





We are going to click on the help button.



Next we are going to click on the input wizard.






We are going to simulate in that open field half space.





Select horn loaded.





Select offset driver.





The Devastator is a 2 segment horn, select that option





Both segments are Parabolic.









Select Rear chamber.





Select vented for the rear chamber.





No throat chamber for the Devastator.





Your results should look like this.





This is a schematic of our selected system parameters. This is the default HR spits out.






Now your input window should look like this


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Using input wizard 3.jpg
Views:	217
Size:	80.8 KB
ID:	2675184   Click image for larger version

Name:	Using input wizard 2.jpg
Views:	215
Size:	62.4 KB
ID:	2675186   Click image for larger version

Name:	Using input wizard 8.jpg
Views:	213
Size:	14.1 KB
ID:	2675188   Click image for larger version

Name:	Using input wizard 1.jpg
Views:	215
Size:	62.3 KB
ID:	2675190   Click image for larger version

Name:	Using input wizard 7.jpg
Views:	171
Size:	19.5 KB
ID:	2675192  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Using input wizard 15.jpg
Views:	212
Size:	68.7 KB
ID:	2675194   Click image for larger version

Name:	Using input wizard 6.jpg
Views:	169
Size:	25.2 KB
ID:	2675196   Click image for larger version

Name:	Using input wizard 14.jpg
Views:	217
Size:	25.6 KB
ID:	2675198   Click image for larger version

Name:	Using input wizard 5.jpg
Views:	211
Size:	13.4 KB
ID:	2675200   Click image for larger version

Name:	Using input wizard 13.jpg
Views:	174
Size:	21.1 KB
ID:	2675202  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Using input wizard 4.jpg
Views:	212
Size:	19.9 KB
ID:	2675204   Click image for larger version

Name:	Using input wizard 12.jpg
Views:	174
Size:	13.6 KB
ID:	2675206   Click image for larger version

Name:	Using input wizard 11.jpg
Views:	172
Size:	14.6 KB
ID:	2675208   Click image for larger version

Name:	Using input wizard 10.jpg
Views:	174
Size:	14.7 KB
ID:	2675210   Click image for larger version

Name:	Using input wizard 9.jpg
Views:	212
Size:	14.2 KB
ID:	2675212  


Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Mini Devastator Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators

Last edited by Red Five; 01-24-2020 at 09:41 AM.
Red Five is online now  
post #3 of 13 Old 01-24-2020, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,622
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked: 902
Now that we have the fields we need in our input window it is time to enter some data


The first thing we are going to change is the cross sectional area of our horn/QW resonator. I should have this data listed in attachments for most of the designs.






Next we are going to enter the data for the length of our two horn segments.




Now that we have the horn section entered we can input our woofers data. Double clicking on the inside of the Sd box will bring up a hidden input menu.






These fields look a little less foreign in their nature I put the SAF184.03 data in the Driver Parameter fields.






The highlighted fields are the data points of our rear chamber/Helmholtz resonator system. It is all expressed in metric units of measure.




We are going to double click inside the Eg box, this will allow us to calculate wattage.



I highlighted some important points of interest. Wattage is calculated based on the Re of the driver, not the nominal impedance of the driver. I am normalizing to 1 watt.






Now that we have our data input, we can hit the calculate button!



You can turn this box off and change what opens up when you hit calculate. It is in the tools menu from the input window under options.






Default behavior it will take us to the Schematic Diagram of our loudspeaker system, again you can change that in the options menu.




I clicked up on the window button and selected the acoustical power window. Tools change under each window, this is important for setting filters and looking at other system aspects.




Congratulations on running your simulation!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Entering the data 6.jpg
Views:	211
Size:	68.1 KB
ID:	2675214   Click image for larger version

Name:	Entering the data 5.jpg
Views:	213
Size:	68.3 KB
ID:	2675216   Click image for larger version

Name:	Entering the data 4.jpg
Views:	178
Size:	23.6 KB
ID:	2675218   Click image for larger version

Name:	Entering the data 3.jpg
Views:	211
Size:	68.6 KB
ID:	2675220   Click image for larger version

Name:	Entering the data 2.jpg
Views:	209
Size:	66.7 KB
ID:	2675222  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Entering the data 1.jpg
Views:	214
Size:	69.2 KB
ID:	2675224   Click image for larger version

Name:	Entering the data 12.jpg
Views:	209
Size:	49.2 KB
ID:	2675226   Click image for larger version

Name:	Entering the data 11.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	61.5 KB
ID:	2675228   Click image for larger version

Name:	Entering the data 10.jpg
Views:	206
Size:	37.2 KB
ID:	2675230   Click image for larger version

Name:	Entering the data 9.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	10.4 KB
ID:	2675232  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Entering the data 8.jpg
Views:	211
Size:	66.9 KB
ID:	2675234   Click image for larger version

Name:	Entering the data 7.jpg
Views:	211
Size:	74.7 KB
ID:	2675236  

Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Mini Devastator Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators

Last edited by Red Five; 01-24-2020 at 09:57 AM.
Red Five is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 13 Old 01-24-2020, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,622
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked: 902
I might add some screen shots in here later, for the moment I will just write up some instructions. Now that we have our basic simulation together there are few aspects of the design we should look at.



Excursion: Diaphragm displacement the window we want for checking this. The tools menu as I mentioned earlier does change based upon which window is open. For excursion we should active a HPF to see where things are at for a given power input. The third option down in the Tool menu for diaphragm displacement is Filter Wizard... The default is active on that right drop down menu, you can also find PEQ filters in there as well. The far left drop down most likely defaulted to power, we want displacement from that menu to see what excursion looks like with different HPF settings. Once we have a filter selected we can click on and that will show what excursion looks like in the diaphragm displacement window.


Port velocity/horn velocity: this is a tricky one to find or figure out. From the acoustical power window we want to go into the tools menu. Third option down is output, the window defaults to combined output of our rear chamber and horn, we want to switch that to port. You can see the AP (acoustical power) response looks much different now. To get velocity we venture back into the tools menu, hold the cursor over Particle Velocity and select either the port inlet or port outlet. Now we can see what the velocity looks like. You can also change the output to horn and look at the particle velocity coming out of the mouth of the horn or at the horn's throat. When you change the output back to combined you can use 0cm between port and horn.



Tweaking a design: HR has a cool tool called the loudspeaker wizard that lets tweak parameters without changing all the inputs in the input window. From the input window go to tools and select Loudspeaker Wizard.... It will probably open up to the Schematic Diagram, but we will most likely want the power window in the drop down menu. The middle drop down box lets us choose which part of the system we are tweaking in the right hand pane. It will most likely default to Horn, but you can change the rear chamber, driver and some other settings. If you hit cancel none of the tweaking will be saved in the input window, clicking save will take those changes and apply them in your input window.

Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Mini Devastator Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators

Last edited by Red Five; 01-24-2020 at 11:20 AM.
Red Five is online now  
post #5 of 13 Old 01-24-2020, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,622
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked: 902
I am thinking this post will become the REW data import instructions...

Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Mini Devastator Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators

Last edited by Red Five; 01-24-2020 at 09:59 AM.
Red Five is online now  
post #6 of 13 Old 01-24-2020, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,622
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked: 902
This post will most likely contain some FAQ stuff...

Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Mini Devastator Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators

Last edited by Red Five; 01-24-2020 at 09:59 AM.
Red Five is online now  
post #7 of 13 Old 01-24-2020, 11:40 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Devastator Hornresp Tutorial

I’m so lost. Lol.
This is the information for designing a subwoofer horn loaded box?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
hessc50 is online now  
post #8 of 13 Old 01-24-2020, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,622
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked: 902
Quote:
Originally Posted by hessc50 View Post
I’m so lost. Lol.
This is the information for designing a subwoofer horn loaded box?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is for simulating Devastators specifically, mostly for the purpose of "does this sub work in a given Devastator design." This would be the more generic designing a offset horn tutorial - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...bass-horn.html

Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Mini Devastator Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators
Red Five is online now  
post #9 of 13 Old 01-24-2020, 12:12 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 3
It’s great but over my head. Lol
I was hoping some one could run the numbers for my 15” Dayton driver
Great work and I’ll read though the link you just posted
Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
hessc50 is online now  
post #10 of 13 Old 01-24-2020, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,622
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked: 902
Quote:
Originally Posted by hessc50 View Post
It’s great but over my head. Lol
I was hoping some one could run the numbers for my 15” Dayton driver
Great work and I’ll read though the link you just posted
Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Which Dayton? If it is the PA380 the Micro should work well!

Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Mini Devastator Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators
Red Five is online now  
post #11 of 13 Old 01-24-2020, 05:24 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Which Dayton? If it is the PA380 the Micro should work well!


Dayton Audio TS400D-4 15" Titanic Mk 4 Subwoofer 4 Ohm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
hessc50 is online now  
post #12 of 13 Old 01-24-2020, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,622
Mentioned: 169 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked: 902
Quote:
Originally Posted by hessc50 View Post
Dayton Audio TS400D-4 15" Titanic Mk 4 Subwoofer 4 Ohm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Looking at the specs I would guess it would work. Do not have HR handy at the moment. Qts looks good, Fs and Mms are both iffy, both are on the border. Either a Micro Full range or a Mini 18" would probably work best.

Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Mini Devastator Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators

Last edited by Red Five; 01-24-2020 at 05:48 PM.
Red Five is online now  
post #13 of 13 Old 01-24-2020, 06:13 PM
Senior Member
 
Falonious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: West MI
Posts: 203
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 110
RF, you are on fire man...do you ever tire of all this? You have done so much for the diy community. We need to do something for you.....humm....I think I may have something you might enjoy. Could you please pm me your shipping address? Yes...this will be a nice way to Thank You Sir!











a77cj7, Red Five, Jan3 and 2 others like this.

All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.
T. E. Lawrence
.
Falonious is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off