JTR Captivator 2400 DIY clone - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 41 Old 02-12-2020, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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JTR Captivator 2400 DIY clone

I'd like to build something similar to the JTR Captivator 2400. Are there any plans available that will hit this frequency range? I like the footprint which is why I am trying to model after it. I would like to build 2 of these powered by a Behringer NU12000. Is this overkill for a 2300 cubic foot space? 90% movies. 10% music.
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post #2 of 41 Old 02-12-2020, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by acribb View Post
I'd like to build something similar to the JTR Captivator 2400. Are there any plans available that will hit this frequency range? I like the footprint which is why I am trying to model after it. I would like to build 2 of these powered by a Behringer NU12000. Is this overkill for a 2300 cubic foot space? 90% movies. 10% music.
Budget?

BTW.... there is NO SUCH THING AS OVERKILL in this forum.....hang around for a moment and you will see what I mean.... I have a "little" system in these parts [see sig]. Yes it's all in one room being used at the same time in 2856 cubes....

That performance is not hard to do.... but in that size box.... just a little. That's a custom woofer in that box. Also notice that they don't show a chart of freq response.... The people here have insane amounts of bass in their theaters....

How much space do you have to put your boxes? @Red Five

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post #3 of 41 Old 02-12-2020, 06:59 PM
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And money, lots of money.
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post #4 of 41 Old 02-13-2020, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by acribb View Post
I'd like to build something similar to the JTR Captivator 2400. Are there any plans available that will hit this frequency range? I like the footprint which is why I am trying to model after it. I would like to build 2 of these powered by a Behringer NU12000. Is this overkill for a 2300 cubic foot space? 90% movies. 10% music.
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post #5 of 41 Old 02-14-2020, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
Budget?

BTW.... there is NO SUCH THING AS OVERKILL in this forum.....hang around for a moment and you will see what I mean.... I have a "little" system in these parts [see sig]. Yes it's all in one room being used at the same time in 2856 cubes....

That performance is not hard to do.... but in that size box.... just a little. That's a custom woofer in that box. Also notice that they don't show a chart of freq response.... The people here have insane amounts of bass in their theaters....

How much space do you have to put your boxes? @Red Five

Welcome to the rabbit hole..... bring snacks....


Juju
Received some input from some great Jax dudes.

How about we roll with 2 ported boxes around these dimensions with each containing a SI 18" HST MK III.

33" x 21" x 22" (HxWxD)
30″x 20″x 22.5″ (HxWxD)

Power?

2 x Crown XLS 2502?

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post #6 of 41 Old 02-15-2020, 07:33 AM
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JTR Captivator 2400 DIY clone

Also don’t neglect power. One or two dedicated 20 amp circuits would also be good to run if possible.

If thinking of a clone later, run thicker wire large enough for a 30 amp line but use a 20 amp break to start.


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post #7 of 41 Old 02-15-2020, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
Also don’️t neglect power. One or two dedicated 20 amp circuits would also be good to run if possible.

If thinking of a clone later, run thicker wire large enough for a 30 amp line but use a 20 amp break to start.


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I ran 3 12 gauge dedicated circuits each on 20amp breakers. Plus the room has a 15amp circuit for the lighting.
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post #8 of 41 Old 02-15-2020, 08:20 AM
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The 2400 is just a normal every-day ported box.

Well, ok it has a nice custom amp and custom driver in a pre-made box, which is great for many... but other than that.

A pair of ported SI-24's, FTW-21's, RF-19's, LMS-18's etc will easily match or beat it...
Heck even a pair of UM-18's and an 6kDSP would get "fairly close".
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post #9 of 41 Old 02-16-2020, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
The 2400 is just a normal every-day ported box.

Well, ok it has a nice custom amp and custom driver in a pre-made box, which is great for many... but other than that.

A pair of ported SI-24's, FTW-21's, RF-19's, LMS-18's etc will easily match or beat it...
Heck even a pair of UM-18's and an 6kDSP would get "fairly close".

Yep, absolutely! A full Marty with the UM-18 in it would come very close, and duals would crush it.

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post #10 of 41 Old 02-16-2020, 09:55 AM
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I ran 3 12 gauge dedicated circuits each on 20amp breakers. Plus the room has a 15amp circuit for the lighting.
If wanting a clone, plan to switch the 20 Amp 120 to 20 Amp 240. You will not need to rerun wire if they are dedicated. But will need to switch breaker and outlet to accommodate.
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post #11 of 41 Old 02-17-2020, 03:01 AM - Thread Starter
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If wanting a clone, plan to switch the 20 Amp 120 to 20 Amp 240. You will not need to rerun wire if they are dedicated. But will need to switch breaker and outlet to accommodate.
Why?

2 crown xls 2502s should be fine on 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits.
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post #12 of 41 Old 02-17-2020, 03:29 AM
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Why?



2 crown xls 2502s should be fine on 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits.


He is referring to the clone amps like the fp14000 or fp20000 etc not the crowns.

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post #13 of 41 Old 02-18-2020, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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How does one go about designing a precise box size taking into account window bracing, and vent bracing? How accurately does this need to be accounted for? If I have an 8 cf box and then add bracing, that makes the box bigger to make up for that displacement but then that also makes the bracing bigger which then I have to account for yet again. Wondering how this is all accurately accounted for when designing a box.
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post #14 of 41 Old 02-18-2020, 07:13 PM
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Don’t get overly wrapped up in preciseness, if you account for slightly less box space you’ll have a very slight roll off compared to the sim.


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post #15 of 41 Old 02-18-2020, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Don’t get overly wrapped up in preciseness, if you account for slightly less box space you’ll have a very slight roll off compared to the sim.


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How do I calculate or estimate the driver displacement of this 18" ?

https://stereointegrity.com/product/hst18-18-subwoofer/
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post #16 of 41 Old 02-18-2020, 09:46 PM
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You could try asking them.

Or guess, that driver has a big displacement, the lesser motor 18” drivers are closer to .3 cu/f. The HST is probably closer to .6-.75.


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post #17 of 41 Old 02-19-2020, 06:26 AM
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Im looking forward to hearing your impressions of the comparison to my setup compared to the JTRs once you get a chance to listen to them. I just wish we could have demoed the Hulk or Interstellar launch scenes. Nothing you heard in that room comes close to that launch scene. On a side note, I started a Tidal membership thanks to you. It's amazing how much I've been missing from my music listening with YouTube.

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Im looking forward to hearing your impressions of the comparison to my setup compared to the JTRs once you get a chance to listen to them. I just wish we could have demoed the Hulk or Interstellar launch scenes. Nothing you heard in that room comes close to that launch scene. On a side note, I started a Tidal membership thanks to you. It's amazing how much I've been missing from my music listening with YouTube.
So you are the 24s he has heard, unless I am confusing the people. He said he heard 3 sealed 24s and liked it.

The JTRs are built with very small boxes so the rolloff is larger than normal for a 10hz tune. To counter this a strong motor and low end boost is applied to get the response back to what a large low tuned sub would be. That signal shaping is a good idea fro matching the room and which response one wants. For DIY, we just know how much gain our rom has and build a sub to get the response we want because we are not selling to the masses.

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post #19 of 41 Old 02-19-2020, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Not sure if I mentioned it earlier but this DIY would be an 8cf ported box with a Stereo Integrity HST-18 MKIII x 2. Thanks to Charles above for getting me addicted to bass with those Nasty 24s! Need to figure out the box design should I go this route. 8cf or there about is the max size per box.

In other news, I cheated and went ahead and ordered 2x SVS PB16Us. I want to see how those respond in my space. Free returns so hey why not. If I'm wanting more, I'll return them and make my own. Or maybe buy the Cap 2400s depending on how those 2400ULFs sound at the other Adam's house in Tampa this weekend!

I'm thinking I need a hand truck to get those upstairs so I'm heading to Harbor Freight to get a cheap big wheeler. I'm thinking I can strap one of these 175lb to it with adequate blankets and protective cardboard then go backwards up the stairs very carefully. I'll need to enlist a spotter/pusher for this task of getting two up the stairs. Delivery date is probably Mon or Tuesday next week but I won't be able to play until Saturday so may need some help on Saturday to get them up the stairs.
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post #20 of 41 Old 02-19-2020, 07:39 AM
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Not sure if I mentioned it earlier but this DIY would be an 8cf ported box with a Stereo Integrity HST-18 MKIII x 2. Thanks to Charles above for getting me addicted to bass with those Nasty 24s! Need to figure out the box design should I go this route. 8cf or there about is the max size per box.

In other news, I cheated and went ahead and ordered 2x SVS PB16Us. I want to see how those respond in my space. Free returns so hey why not. If I'm wanting more, I'll return them and make my own. Or maybe buy the Cap 2400s depending on how those 2400ULFs sound at the other Adam's house in Tampa this weekend!

I'm thinking I need a hand truck to get those upstairs so I'm heading to Harbor Freight to get a cheap big wheeler. I'm thinking I can strap one of these 175lb to it with adequate blankets and protective cardboard then go backwards up the stairs very carefully. I'll need to enlist a spotter/pusher for this task of getting two up the stairs. Delivery date is probably Mon or Tuesday next week but I won't be able to play until Saturday so may need some help on Saturday to get them up the stairs.
Does a free demo come with this help? If so, I'm in. I have to paint Tyler's Helix cabinets Saturday, but will be free after about 4ish.
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post #21 of 41 Old 02-19-2020, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by acribb View Post
Not sure if I mentioned it earlier but this DIY would be an 8cf ported box with a Stereo Integrity HST-18 MKIII x 2. Thanks to Charles above for getting me addicted to bass with those Nasty 24s! Need to figure out the box design should I go this route. 8cf or there about is the max size per box.

In other news, I cheated and went ahead and ordered 2x SVS PB16Us. I want to see how those respond in my space. Free returns so hey why not. If I'm wanting more, I'll return them and make my own. Or maybe buy the Cap 2400s depending on how those 2400ULFs sound at the other Adam's house in Tampa this weekend!

I'm thinking I need a hand truck to get those upstairs so I'm heading to Harbor Freight to get a cheap big wheeler. I'm thinking I can strap one of these 175lb to it with adequate blankets and protective cardboard then go backwards up the stairs very carefully. I'll need to enlist a spotter/pusher for this task of getting two up the stairs. Delivery date is probably Mon or Tuesday next week but I won't be able to play until Saturday so may need some help on Saturday to get them up the stairs.
Yep. He came over Sunday night and we pushed the room hard. My ears may or may not still be ringing. We measured 122.2dB at the MLP (center of room) and 130+ in the nasty spot. I was looking at those JTR ports. At first I was concerned at the port size. They look like they would have a lot of chuffing. After you mentioned a 10Hz tune (I would have never guessed a tune so low) I'm thinking maybe they will play clean simply because there's just not a lot of content recorded at high levels that low. Or maybe I'm wrong, wouldn't be the first time.
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post #22 of 41 Old 02-19-2020, 07:48 AM
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@acribb , when you gonna break the news to the group about those SVS. Not going to lie, I'm pretty excited to finally be able to hear what those things sound like. It will give us a good baseline for comparing our DIY to higher end retail subs.
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post #23 of 41 Old 02-19-2020, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by acribb View Post
Not sure if I mentioned it earlier but this DIY would be an 8cf ported box with a Stereo Integrity HST-18 MKIII x 2. Thanks to Charles above for getting me addicted to bass with those Nasty 24s! Need to figure out the box design should I go this route. 8cf or there about is the max size per box.

In other news, I cheated and went ahead and ordered 2x SVS PB16Us. I want to see how those respond in my space. Free returns so hey why not. If I'm wanting more, I'll return them and make my own. Or maybe buy the Cap 2400s depending on how those 2400ULFs sound at the other Adam's house in Tampa this weekend!

I'm thinking I need a hand truck to get those upstairs so I'm heading to Harbor Freight to get a cheap big wheeler. I'm thinking I can strap one of these 175lb to it with adequate blankets and protective cardboard then go backwards up the stairs very carefully. I'll need to enlist a spotter/pusher for this task of getting two up the stairs. Delivery date is probably Mon or Tuesday next week but I won't be able to play until Saturday so may need some help on Saturday to get them up the stairs.
Hi acribb,

Good call on the PB16's. In your room they should hit pretty damn hard. The PB16's are no slouch and are very tunable with all the built in EQ and Phone App adjustment options. At the very least they will help you decide/determine what your room and house can or can not handle.

I have added the new "Midway" to the top of the demo list. It damn near blew me right out of the room. The closest to being deployed and underway since being deployed and underway. Some insane AA action that will have you dodging "incoming rounds" in your seat. I only hope my Neighbors are awake and out shopping. Otherwise they are going to think our Neighborhood is under Japanese Attack!!!!

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post #24 of 41 Old 02-19-2020, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acribb View Post
Not sure if I mentioned it earlier but this DIY would be an 8cf ported box with a Stereo Integrity HST-18 MKIII x 2. Thanks to Charles above for getting me addicted to bass with those Nasty 24s! Need to figure out the box design should I go this route. 8cf or there about is the max size per box.

In other news, I cheated and went ahead and ordered 2x SVS PB16Us. I want to see how those respond in my space. Free returns so hey why not. If I'm wanting more, I'll return them and make my own. Or maybe buy the Cap 2400s depending on how those 2400ULFs sound at the other Adam's house in Tampa this weekend!

I'm thinking I need a hand truck to get those upstairs so I'm heading to Harbor Freight to get a cheap big wheeler. I'm thinking I can strap one of these 175lb to it with adequate blankets and protective cardboard then go backwards up the stairs very carefully. I'll need to enlist a spotter/pusher for this task of getting two up the stairs. Delivery date is probably Mon or Tuesday next week but I won't be able to play until Saturday so may need some help on Saturday to get them up the stairs.
Does a free demo come with this help? If so, I'm in. I have to paint Tyler's Helix cabinets Saturday, but will be free after about 4ish.
So Im actually thinking Sunday March 1 may work better. I need to work out with the wife when she can vacate for 3-5 hours. Got a birthday party on Saturday. Should be fun. I'll figure out whether Saturday night or Sunday works. We can talk more in the group when I get a chance. It's going to be tough having those bad boys sit there for days unused.
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post #25 of 41 Old 02-19-2020, 08:32 AM
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You are better off putting two sealed UM18s in an 8 cubic foot box and signal shape the low end to have as much spl at 10hz as an expensive single driver ported. Of course the limit here is the size box and port velocity with such a low tune. The DSP and limiter would decrease this as well as room gain.

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post #26 of 41 Old 02-19-2020, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Charles - Yes my ears are still ringing. When it's quiet I can definitely hear it. Crazy scary!

Adam - Looking forward to our GTG! Yeah Midway has some great big guns, bombs and explosions in it!
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post #27 of 41 Old 02-19-2020, 09:06 AM
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I think the JTR's port maxed out at 110db, it is very undersized.


As for dual HST's in 8cu/f, that is a waste of time IMO. That would be a decent size for one but you are essentially wasting performance for using 2.
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post #28 of 41 Old 02-19-2020, 09:18 AM
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I think the JTR's port maxed out at 110db, it is very undersized.


As for dual HST's in 8cu/f, that is a waste of time IMO. That would be a decent size for one but you are essentially wasting performance for using 2.


I run HST’s in 10.5cu EACH at 11hz. Way undersized, significant chuffing. Not noticeable during normal content, but quite audible on EOT intro. Then again, lots of angry noises from room are also present.

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post #29 of 41 Old 02-19-2020, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
I run HST’s in 10.5cu EACH at 11hz. Way undersized, significant chuffing. Not noticeable during normal content, but quite audible on EOT intro. Then again, lots of angry noises from room are also present.

Chris


Yea these things really needs bigger boxes for ported.
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post #30 of 41 Old 02-19-2020, 10:00 AM
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Yea these things really needs bigger boxes for ported.
I wonder if all that port wind people refer to is very high port velocity but since it is so low in freqnency it is not as noticebale. I bet there is a limiter set right before chuffing might occur.

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