Looking for the best use of my space. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 4Likes
  • 1 Post By Kothoga
  • 1 Post By trilkb
  • 1 Post By BassThatHz
  • 1 Post By Mike Garrett
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 Old 02-13-2020, 04:04 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Darthprater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Looking for the best use of my space.

So here’s the dilemma I’m facing. I’ve enclosed a picture of my space.

The tekton subs just aren’t cutting it. I have full martysubs in the rear, but these things are just underpowered for what they are. Here are my thoughts on options:
1)move cinemasubs on their sides and set the ascend 340 L and R channels on top of each of them, in place of the stand piece and upgrade the drivers (eminence delta pro c 18”) and amp (Bash 300). Then build two monolith 215 clones (with slightly smaller dimensions) to put on the corners. With the cinema sub on its side, I have 18.5” width, 30” length and 38.5” height (limited by the circuit breaker panel on the right side of the stage) of space.
2) sell the cinema subs, which will be difficult to do and I’m not gonna ship them. Then, build a couple of PSA V36xx or V42xx type subs and lay them on the side. Or make the best use out of a 38.5 x 38.5 x 30” space that I can and leave the mains in a floor standing configuration, since I want to build some 1099’s or possibly even save for some JTR or Tekton floorstanders eventually anyways.

Anyways, what would you do? Frequency response in the MLP with the martysubs in the back with the tekton subs is relatively flat down to about 12.5 hz, but the cinemasubs just don’t have the headroom. I’d like to build something with a good midbass punch like the cinema subs want to have, that can still help the martysubs dig down low, maybe even into the single digits.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Darthprater is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 02-13-2020, 05:28 AM
Senior Member
 
Kothoga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Frisco, TX
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Liked: 212
Move the FMs to the front and replace them with 21" NSW powered LFE Alpha Devastators.
Red Five likes this.

Theater: JVC RS540U, 2.35:1 142" screen, Onkyo RZ1100, Panasonic UB820, Outlaw Audio M2200 Monoblock x3, Klipsch RF7II, RC64II, RS62II, 5800CII x4 Atmos, PSA V3611 Subwoofer x2.
2 Channel: Parasound P6, Parasound A23+, Rega Planar 6 with Ortofon 2M Bronze, Klispch La Scala II.
Kothoga is offline  
post #3 of 17 Old 02-13-2020, 07:18 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trilkb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
Posts: 1,327
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 714 Post(s)
Liked: 376
Another great application for 8 jbl 12's. they have more midbass and will still dig to 10-15hz with proper DSP. Thats my answer to everything anymore lol.
eriksells916 likes this.

- 6 x Boston Acoustic CR6 Frankencenter, Boston Acoustic CR8 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 x jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -
trilkb is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 Old 02-13-2020, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Darthprater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by trilkb View Post
Another great application for 8 jbl 12's. they have more midbass and will still dig to 10-15hz with proper DSP. Thats my answer to everything anymore lol.


Coincidentally, I have 8 of them. I just didn’t see any use for them after buying them unless each cabinet is like 20+ cu ft. How can you get them to dig so low with a 120+ dB output at 20hz without needing such a huge cabinet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Darthprater is offline  
post #5 of 17 Old 02-13-2020, 12:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trilkb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
Posts: 1,327
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 714 Post(s)
Liked: 376
Need a DSP amp, like a behringer 6000, And then you trick the inuke to boost the low end 12-15db in a way that it also boosts below 20hz, 20hz is the lowest you can DSP on a Behringer but you can trick it to keep boosting, you can set a negative filter that ends up boosting, dunno how someone knew that but Its pretty awesome they do. A weeknight with a Umik and behringers DSP would get it all dialed in. I would think at 20hz 120db is possible. Thats a question for the minds in the JBL thread though.

I run mine in prefab dual 15" subwoofer boxes, 2cuft per driver and I have a behringer 6000dsp.

Hell if 8 dont do it....16 probably will! But if you have 8 laying around Id put them in 2 pods of 4 in seperate sides of the room to start. When I just had 4 of them It was tolerable for me, those 4 preformed better than 4 Dayton Audio Sub 1500s, 8 is better, and 16 better still lol. 16 8's has just slightly more cone area than 7 18's, but you have 16 voice coils instead of 7, and they already like midbass. You already have 8 sitting there so it seems like a no brainer to me. put the 8 you have in 2 cu ft each, get an amp or use one you have for testing....see how you like it.

The jbl 12's naturally have to have dsp around 70hz because its LOUD. Running them with no DSP gets you no low end and all midbass. So you DSP them to take some midbass out and add all the low end.

also, 16 12's is equal to 5.2 21" drivers. But I bet that 21 cant do midbass like 16 12's can!

- 6 x Boston Acoustic CR6 Frankencenter, Boston Acoustic CR8 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 x jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -

Last edited by trilkb; 02-13-2020 at 12:36 PM.
trilkb is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old 02-13-2020, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Darthprater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by trilkb View Post
Need a DSP amp, like a behringer 6000, And then you trick the inuke to boost the low end 12-15db in a way that it also boosts below 20hz, 20hz is the lowest you can DSP on a Behringer but you can trick it to keep boosting, you can set a negative filter that ends up boosting, dunno how someone knew that but Its pretty awesome they do. A weeknight with a Umik and behringers DSP would get it all dialed in. I would think at 20hz 120db is possible. Thats a question for the minds in the JBL thread though.



I run mine in prefab dual 15" subwoofer boxes, 2cuft per driver and I have a behringer 6000dsp.



Hell if 8 dont do it....16 probably will! But if you have 8 laying around Id put them in 2 pods of 4 in seperate sides of the room to start. When I just had 4 of them It was tolerable for me, those 4 preformed better than 4 Dayton Audio Sub 1500s, 8 is better, and 16 better still lol. 16 8's has just slightly more cone area than 7 18's, but you have 16 voice coils instead of 7, and they already like midbass. You already have 8 sitting there so it seems like a no brainer to me. put the 8 you have in 2 cu ft each, get an amp or use one you have for testing....see how you like it.



The jbl 12's naturally have to have dsp around 70hz because its LOUD. Running them with no DSP gets you no low end and all midbass. So you DSP them to take some midbass out and add all the low end.



also, 16 12's is equal to 5.2 21" drivers. But I bet that 21 cant do midbass like 16 12's can!


Thanks for the in depth response. I’m assuming you’re talking about sealed vs the ported that I was talking about. I’ll have to model what you’re talking about on winisd. Doesn’t it run the risk of getting hot very quickly with so much boost down low?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Darthprater is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old 02-13-2020, 04:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
klipsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1,419
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Liked: 139
Let's say an inuke is being used to power some subs, like the jbls.

Let's also say the inuke will push out around 1200 watts per channel. If we then apply a 3 dB low end boost on top of that, power will need to be doubled to 2400 watts. So, if we want to utilize a 3 dB boost, we'll need to limit the amp's power to 600 watts to allow headroom for the 3 dB boost which will need double the power: 1200 watts that the amp can produce.

Adding 12 to 15 dB via DSP would require a lot of headroom. No DSP or EQ can add power. If it did, none of us would need to buy amps. We could all just buy DSP.

If your amp has the headroom, fire away...
klipsch is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 02-13-2020, 06:47 PM
Senior Member
 
Audiophile75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: The middle of Minnesota
Posts: 257
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Wow, it is like a blank canvas in an awesome room but you didn’t give us any money to work with. Bummer.

Horn subs like the devestators are super efficient and some can be pretty cheap but lack any lower frequencies (5hz to 15hz) that you desire so then a BOSS platform would have to be built as well. On the flip side they do 18 to 80/100hz really really well.

Sealed would give you the lower frequencies but require a lot of power/eq and a lot of drivers. You have dedicated power already ran so you are now ahead of that game.

Ported large low tuned (11hz -17hz) cabs would be another good idea for you so you can still have your midbass. Large being 21 inch drivers or bigger. This may be your best bet but will require large boxes.

You said you want to upgrade your mains so whatever you do I would consider designing for at least four OF THE SAME subs in all four corners or four up front and two in the back later for easy integration and smoothness at every seat. This would be MY NUMBER ONE FOCUS if I would start over. Good luck.
Audiophile75 is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old 02-13-2020, 07:51 PM
Senior Member
 
Audiophile75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: The middle of Minnesota
Posts: 257
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthprater View Post
Coincidentally, I have 8 of them. I just didn’t see any use for them after buying them unless each cabinet is like 20+ cu ft.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And if you don’t use these in a sealed cabinet then use them for a BOSS platform which compliments a devestator setup great.
Audiophile75 is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 02-13-2020, 09:12 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 11,107
Mentioned: 244 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3919 Post(s)
Liked: 4431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthprater View Post
that can still help the martysubs dig down low, maybe even into the single digits.
What you need is 4 sealed SI-24's powered with a pair of FP14k's, and then the martysubs can be sold. LOL!

Basically the answer is: keep filling the room with large subs until there is so much SPL that you can't use it all,
...or until there is no space left to breathe, walk, or view the screen. (Matterhorn Tetris.)
Problem solved!
Darthprater likes this.
BassThatHz is offline  
post #11 of 17 Old 02-13-2020, 10:14 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 27,431
Mentioned: 276 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13155 Post(s)
Liked: 10792
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by trilkb View Post
Need a DSP amp, like a behringer 6000, And then you trick the inuke to boost the low end 12-15db in a way that it also boosts below 20hz, 20hz is the lowest you can DSP on a Behringer but you can trick it to keep boosting, you can set a negative filter that ends up boosting, dunno how someone knew that but Its pretty awesome they do. A weeknight with a Umik and behringers DSP would get it all dialed in. I would think at 20hz 120db is possible. Thats a question for the minds in the JBL thread though.

I run mine in prefab dual 15" subwoofer boxes, 2cuft per driver and I have a behringer 6000dsp.

Hell if 8 dont do it....16 probably will! But if you have 8 laying around Id put them in 2 pods of 4 in seperate sides of the room to start. When I just had 4 of them It was tolerable for me, those 4 preformed better than 4 Dayton Audio Sub 1500s, 8 is better, and 16 better still lol. 16 8's has just slightly more cone area than 7 18's, but you have 16 voice coils instead of 7, and they already like midbass. You already have 8 sitting there so it seems like a no brainer to me. put the 8 you have in 2 cu ft each, get an amp or use one you have for testing....see how you like it.

The jbl 12's naturally have to have dsp around 70hz because its LOUD. Running them with no DSP gets you no low end and all midbass. So you DSP them to take some midbass out and add all the low end.

also, 16 12's is equal to 5.2 21" drivers. But I bet that 21 cant do midbass like 16 12's can!
Only if we are talking same xmax.
TheGiantPeach likes this.
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #12 of 17 Old 02-14-2020, 06:33 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trilkb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
Posts: 1,327
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 714 Post(s)
Liked: 376
True, Guess I shouldve said cone area, but yea xmax does play into that and I didnt think of it.

- 6 x Boston Acoustic CR6 Frankencenter, Boston Acoustic CR8 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 x jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -
trilkb is offline  
post #13 of 17 Old 02-14-2020, 08:21 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 27,431
Mentioned: 276 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13155 Post(s)
Liked: 10792
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by trilkb View Post
True, Guess I shouldve said cone area, but yea xmax does play into that and I didnt think of it.
This is why the general thinking is one 18" sub driver equals three 12's. Because the 18's usually have a little more xmax.
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old 02-14-2020, 09:27 AM
Advanced Member
 
Chris Popovich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 579
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 281 Post(s)
Liked: 258
If talking JBL's I think 4 roughly equal an ultimax down low, in a small sealed box.

Remember with many drivers you gain sensitivity.
Chris Popovich is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old 02-14-2020, 01:44 PM
Member
 
BlueGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 136
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 42
If you look at the JBL 12 thread, there are a few people using them with the Earthquake Slaps PRs. They were getting the same output with 2x12s + 1xPR as 3x12s sealed.

It's about a wash money wise as the Slaps go for $40-50, but it leaves you're amp with more headroom. If you've already got 4 of the 12's it's worth a try. Boxes for 3x12's are cheap and easy to come by too, you just need to cut some holes between the chambers.
BlueGhost is online now  
post #16 of 17 Old 02-15-2020, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Darthprater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
What you need is 4 sealed SI-24's powered with a pair of FP14k's, and then the martysubs can be sold. LOL!



Basically the answer is: keep filling the room with large subs until there is so much SPL that you can't use it all,

...or until there is no space left to breathe, walk, or view the screen. (Matterhorn Tetris.)

Problem solved!


Screw it. What about 6 sealed 24’s. That’s $7500 in drivers alone...it’s gonna take a year or so to save up but maybe the guys at SÍ will help me out with getting them here for a little less than that. Plus an FP20000Q probably. Maybe I can sell the tekton subs and Martysubs/nx6000d for around $3k or so.

Maybe do two dual 1 ohm drivers in 24x24x90” sealed enclosures in the rear...and two single dual 2 ohm enclosures in the front (12 cu ft sealed each).

That would...require like a 60w breaker for the amp, seriously high gauge wiring...and most likely some structural reinforcements in the attic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Darthprater is offline  
post #17 of 17 Old 02-15-2020, 06:58 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
klipsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1,419
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Liked: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthprater View Post
Screw it. What about 6 sealed 24’s. That’s $7500 in drivers alone...it’s gonna take a year or so to save up but maybe the guys at SÍ will help me out with getting them here for a little less than that. Plus an FP20000Q probably. Maybe I can sell the tekton subs and Martysubs/nx6000d for around $3k or so.

Maybe do two dual 1 ohm drivers in 24x24x90” sealed enclosures in the rear...and two single dual 2 ohm enclosures in the front (12 cu ft sealed each).

That would...require like a 60w breaker for the amp, seriously high gauge wiring...and most likely some structural reinforcements in the attic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'd do 2 SI 24s and 4 NSW skrams. Two 20 Amp 240v circuits for 1 20000q and 1 14000.
klipsch is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off