Speaker connector power handling. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 21 Old 02-24-2020, 11:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Question Speaker connector power handling.

I'm currently building 2 sealed dayton ultimax 18s and i bought Dayton Audio BPA-38G HD


I was planning on using Nakamichi spades connectors from the outside and inside. They are quite beefy.


I've see some places that mention how much volts and amps can a spade connector handle, but i can't find much info, they said that a 16ga spade could handle 30v at 15a. This is just 450watts. The ultimax can handle quite a bit more than that. Should i worry about the thing getting too hot inside the box and melting/burning the silicone stuffing i'm gonna put in the box. ? Even thou i will use those shrinking rubber thingies, they could melt to if too much heat. I know that a 14ga (or it was 12ga) wire can handler around 4000-4500 watts.

What are your thoughts ?
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post #2 of 21 Old 02-24-2020, 11:08 PM
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I’m wondering why you’d go the dangerous route instead of the cheap, safe, speakon route which is easy disconnect with 0 chance of shorts. I think it’s also less bulky than binding posts and spades.

Next, why not just bare wire into the binding posts? What is the requirement for spade connections?
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Leave it at 8 ohms and call it a day :)
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post #3 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 12:01 AM
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SpeakONs are rated at 40A RMS at 250V and can handle 50A with a 50% duty cycle. 12.5KW should be enough for just about any speaker...


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post #4 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I’m wondering why you’d go the dangerous route instead of the cheap, safe, speakon route which is easy disconnect with 0 chance of shorts. I think it’s also less bulky than binding posts and spades.
This. ^



Agreed, less chance of damaging the amplifier from accidental shorts. One member on the forum here damaged his NX3000D amplifier from this very scenario, using binding posts on the subwoofer boxes.



Speakon SPX series has a continuous 40 amp RMS audio signal rating, with a 50 amp RMS rating for 50% duty cycle.



Source: https://www.neutrik.com/en/product/nl4fx


The 40A rating is a lot more capacity than most enclosures will need, since the actual in-box impedance profile will determine the amount of power into the load, and the impedance minima is where maximum power is required.



For example, 120V into a 3 ohm impedance minima would require 40A. 120*120/3 = 4,800 watts. The same 120V into a nice high impedance peak of say 80 ohms, would be 180 watts or solving for current, 1.5A.


Also, see 'real power vs. apparent power'. Only when the current waveform and the voltage waveform are in phase, will the real power equal the apparent power supplied to the load.



https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws...-triangle.html

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post #5 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 06:05 AM
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post #6 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 07:29 AM
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I've dumped 2500+ watts no problem though the PE binding posts like you posted. It's just preference, either is fine.

Chris
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post #7 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetzalcoalt View Post
I'm currently building 2 sealed dayton ultimax 18s and i bought Dayton Audio BPA-38G HD





I was planning on using Nakamichi spades connectors from the outside and inside. They are quite beefy.





I've see some places that mention how much volts and amps can a spade connector handle, but i can't find much info, they said that a 16ga spade could handle 30v at 15a. This is just 450watts. The ultimax can handle quite a bit more than that. Should i worry about the thing getting too hot inside the box and melting/burning the silicone stuffing i'm gonna put in the box. ? Even thou i will use those shrinking rubber thingies, they could melt to if too much heat. I know that a 14ga (or it was 12ga) wire can handler around 4000-4500 watts.



What are your thoughts ?

That rating is DC power. The spades will be fine.

Chris
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post #8 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russdawg1 View Post
I’m wondering why you’d go the dangerous route instead of the cheap, safe, speakon route which is easy disconnect with 0 chance of shorts. I think it’s also less bulky than binding posts and spades.

Next, why not just bare wire into the binding posts? What is the requirement for spade connections?
The boxes will be placed right against the wall so the slimmer the connector the better. This is the reason why i bought those binding posts. Also they are quite easy to install and i hope they won't need sealing them with silicone.
The speakON connectors are quite big. I've already bought the binding posts so..

I can use bare wire from the outside but from the inside i will need some type of a connector. And now that i think about it, could the vibrations caused from the driver be large enough that the two nuts can loosen themselves?


Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd View Post
Agreed, less chance of damaging the amplifier from accidental shorts. One member on the forum here damaged his NX3000D amplifier from this very scenario, using binding posts on the subwoofer boxes.
Really ? if this can happen then i need to think of another solute. I didn't want speakON because of it's size. The binding posts where going to be placed on the back of the box and the box will be placed against the wall.

I did a research my self to see how much power can the speakON handler and it's more then sufficient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
That rating is DC power. The spades will be fine.
So power wise i should be fine but what about vibration wise ? Can the nuts from the inside loosen ?

I haven't drilled any holes yet so i have time to think about it. I really don't like the speakON connector size and look. It's plastic and nasty colors.So i can't out it on the side. I've also decided to use fake leather instead of painting the boxes. The leather look will match the living room style.
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post #9 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetzalcoalt View Post
The boxes will be placed right against the wall so the slimmer the connector the better. This is the reason why i bought those binding posts. Also they are quite easy to install and i hope they won't need sealing them with silicone.

The speakON connectors are quite big. I've already bought the binding posts so..



I can use bare wire from the outside but from the inside i will need some type of a connector. And now that i think about it, could the vibrations caused from the driver be large enough that the two nuts can loosen themselves?









Really ? if this can happen then i need to think of another solute. I didn't want speakON because of it's size. The binding posts where going to be placed on the back of the box and the box will be placed against the wall.



I did a research my self to see how much power can the speakON handler and it's more then sufficient.







So power wise i should be fine but what about vibration wise ? Can the nuts from the inside loosen ?



I haven't drilled any holes yet so i have time to think about it. I really don't like the speakON connector size and look. It's plastic and nasty colors.So i can't out it on the side. I've also decided to use fake leather instead of painting the boxes. The leather look will match the living room style.


I use terminal cups and low-profile banana plugs because of the same wall clearance concerns.

I’ve never had vibration issues with a speaker connection. Properly tightened should stay that way.

I never unplug or move my speakers with the amp on, thus avoiding the short/shock issue. Speakons are foolproof, but normal posts are just as safe if you use them correctly.

Chris
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post #10 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 11:13 AM
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Isn't the small "tab" on the binding post meant for a female disconnect? https://www.amazon.com/40pcs-Insulat.../dp/B00X73TT86 (Just an example, I didn't pay attention to size)

I'd personally use a ring terminal and sandwich between the 2 nuts on the inside. That won't fall off and you can tighten the 2 nuts together to lock it down tight.
https://www.amazon.com/Hilitchi-Insu...s%2C149&sr=1-1
(Again just representative and possibly not the size or qty)

Also you can recess speakon connectors to be pretty low profile, with the 90* ends. If I can remember when I get home, I'll post a pic of my subs and speakon.
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post #11 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 11:14 AM
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I'll have to take a picture of how I low profiled my speakon. It looks janky AF because I was in a hurry to button it up and turn it on.


Essentially what I did was drill a hole, little oversized from the speakon male plug, glue a piece of wood to cover the hole on the inside and mount the speakon female connector in the hole I created. Using a 90degree angle speakon connector it only sticks about an inch from the back of the sub. My sub was able to sit right up against the floor molding.
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post #12 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDean View Post
Isn't the small "tab" on the binding post meant for a female disconnect? https://www.amazon.com/40pcs-Insulat.../dp/B00X73TT86 (Just an example, I didn't pay attention to size)

I'd personally use a ring terminal and sandwich between the 2 nuts on the inside. That won't fall off and you can tighten the 2 nuts together to lock it down tight.
https://www.amazon.com/Hilitchi-Insu...s%2C149&sr=1-1
(Again just representative and possibly not the size or qty)
Yes, that thing is just for a female crimp, or i can buy the circle crimp instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDean View Post

Also you can recess speakon connectors to be pretty low profile, with the 90* ends. If I can remember when I get home, I'll post a pic of my subs and speakon.
No need i know how they look , i just didn't look at the dimensions to know if it might work, because i already spend 20 euro to the 4 Dayton binding posts. If i decide to use a speakON, what about the inside ? Well i guess shielded crimps will work just fine.
It will be super hard to put the female speakON on the box because i can't just drill a hole, i need to "CNC" the shape and the height of the "square" part of the connector. The box was cut by a local wood shop including the circle where the driver goes. So i might just choose the easier option anyway and if it doesn't work (blow an cheap amp) then i guess i will figure out how to do it.
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post #13 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 12:05 PM
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Either one is perfectly fine. I've ran 5000 watts through those dayton binding posts for years.... like seriously, look at the posts on the actual drivers, they are generally pretty crappy and hold up just fine. The Dayton ones are just fine, don't put another second of though into it.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #14 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetzalcoalt View Post
Really ? if this can happen then i need to think of another solute. I didn't want speakON because of it's size. The binding posts where going to be placed on the back of the box and the box will be placed against the wall.



Really...



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post57098318


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ad945689a7.jpg


I have had binding post nuts loosen slightly over time, put a dab of silicone on the nut / post connection inside the box to prevent them from loosening. For the outside nuts, tighten them firmly.

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post #15 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 06:20 PM
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There's the current handling aspect and also the exposed voltage aspect. Not that many people are pawing behind their subs with the volume cranked, but you're still talking exposed terminals with potentially dangerous voltages. The Speakons are safer for higher power. You can also get 90 degree Speakons to reduce the clearance (or put the connector on the side instead of the back.)
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post #16 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prana Ferox View Post
There's the current handling aspect and also the exposed voltage aspect. Not that many people are pawing behind their subs with the volume cranked, but you're still talking exposed terminals with potentially dangerous voltages. The Speakons are safer for higher power. You can also get 90 degree Speakons to reduce the clearance (or put the connector on the side instead of the back.)


You guys must not weld. Exposed high voltage terminals, that you hold in your hand to use.

IMO, if you shock yourself with your subwoofer/amplifier, you were doing something very stupid.

Speakons are great for mobile gear. Super easy to hook up quickly and correctly every time. I just don’t see the necessity in a home theater environment. If you prefer them, great. But binding posts and terminal cups work great too.

Chris
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post #17 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 07:23 PM
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Agreed. Reg terminals more than meet requirements. Speakon is fine, nothing wrong with it, but if we could all stop acting like we're sending 400+ volts to some exposed terminals painted like lollipops that are facing a day care center, that'd be great too.
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post #18 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 11:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd View Post
Really...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post57098318
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ad945689a7.jpg

I have had binding post nuts loosen slightly over time, put a dab of silicone on the nut / post connection inside the box to prevent them from loosening. For the outside nuts, tighten them firmly.
Well he said that his plugs were touching for at least 5 seconds. I can spread mine far enough that even the connectors are placed 90deg between the two terminals it won't reach to short itself.

I guess i can add a thermo shrink tube or just a drop of silicone on them.
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post #19 of 21 Old 02-25-2020, 11:27 PM
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SpeakOn is safer and easier to use once the cables are soldered

I've clipped my FP14k into every binding post type ever made. It's fine.
The flash-power is well in excessive of anything a voicecoil could handle, and probably more than any amplifier could output/survive.

I guarantee you the VC will fry well before any speaker wire or terminals will.
The VC is like 9000awg, and acts like a poorly air-cooled water-heater element.

Welding is not comparable. Welding often uses ultra-low voltage DC at ultra-high current (to produce maximum heat at the contact point.)
Audio is variable-voltage and variable-frequency AC (but generally MUCH lower current and much higher voltage than welding, and AC not DC.)

The output terminals on a clipped FP14k can easily reach lethal levels. 16kW burst is like 253volts @ 4-ohms.
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post #20 of 21 Old 02-26-2020, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
SpeakOn is safer and easier to use once the cables are soldered



I've clipped my FP14k into every binding post type ever made. It's fine.

The flash-power is well in excessive of anything a voicecoil could handle, and probably more than any amplifier could output/survive.



I guarantee you the VC will fry well before any speaker wire or terminals will.

The VC is like 9000awg, and acts like a poorly air-cooled water-heater element.



Welding is not comparable. Welding often uses ultra-low voltage DC at ultra-high current (to produce maximum heat at the contact point.)

Audio is variable-voltage and variable-frequency AC (but generally MUCH lower current and much higher voltage than welding, and AC not DC.)



The output terminals on a clipped FP14k can easily reach lethal levels. 16kW burst is like 253volts @ 4-ohms.


Yeah, welding is much lower voltage, probably a bad comparison. I haven’t messed with a/c welding in years. Especially now that my friend has a couple pulse migs.

Would you prefer the comparison to not touching the terminals on the wall plug while inserting/removing it?

I still stick with getting shocked by your sub/amp takes a very dedicated application of stupidity. Darwin awards stuff there.

Chris
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post #21 of 21 Old 02-27-2020, 01:42 PM
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I love and prefer Speakons for these reasons:
- They're dirt cheap
- They're fool proof
- There's no possibility of my 2 & 5 yr olds grabbing live wires FWIW (relative to exposed binding posts)
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