Build a new sub to blend in with Martin Logan Balanced Force - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 35Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 03:57 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked: 1521
Build a new sub to blend in with Martin Logan Balanced Force

G'day,

I am contemplating whether to purchase a 2nd ML sub or build one from a kit. Buying another ML isn't desirable due to high purchase prices at the moment however I am not sure what kit if any out there would be a good match.

Thanks for your suggestions in advance.

https://www.martinlogan.com/en/produ...ancedforce-210

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 08:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
johnson636's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere in the Outer Rim
Posts: 3,435
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1714 Post(s)
Liked: 1208
What is your budget?

Automation: Alexa- Harmony Hub- Wemo Dimmer Switch- Wemo Smart Plug BatCave: SY Triple Black
Video Image: JVC RS500- Sony UBP-800X- Chromecast- 125" wide 16x9 white over black spandex screen
Audio: 5.2.4 Marantz SR7011- (LCR) QSC 2180 - (Surrounds) (4) BIC FH6-LCR- (Atmos) (4) Dayton Audio B652 6-1/2-Inch- (Subs)2 23ishcuft ported HS24s 14-15Hz tune - 2 Devastator Minis B&C21ds115 - 4 PA460 in ported cabs 40Hz tune- FP20000Q- 2 Sanway FP10000Q- Crown XLS1500- . To be continued...
johnson636 is online now  
post #3 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked: 1521
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
What is your budget?
Good question. Not sure what a DIY kit that is capable of coming close to the 210 is.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 10:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
johnson636's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere in the Outer Rim
Posts: 3,435
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1714 Post(s)
Liked: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Good question. Not sure what a DIY kit that is capable of coming close to the 210 is.
If we knew your budget, we'd be able to determine that for you.

Automation: Alexa- Harmony Hub- Wemo Dimmer Switch- Wemo Smart Plug BatCave: SY Triple Black
Video Image: JVC RS500- Sony UBP-800X- Chromecast- 125" wide 16x9 white over black spandex screen
Audio: 5.2.4 Marantz SR7011- (LCR) QSC 2180 - (Surrounds) (4) BIC FH6-LCR- (Atmos) (4) Dayton Audio B652 6-1/2-Inch- (Subs)2 23ishcuft ported HS24s 14-15Hz tune - 2 Devastator Minis B&C21ds115 - 4 PA460 in ported cabs 40Hz tune- FP20000Q- 2 Sanway FP10000Q- Crown XLS1500- . To be continued...
johnson636 is online now  
post #5 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked: 1521
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
If we knew your budget, we'd be able to determine that for you.
Let's put it this way, the sub other than the 210 would be the ML Dynamo 1600x which is around $1700.oo RRP. Less than that. Half way would be ideal IF possible.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is online now  
post #6 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 11:19 AM
Advanced Member
 
jujuman200's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 802
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 406 Post(s)
Liked: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Let's put it this way, the sub other than the 210 would be the ML Dynamo 1600x which is around $1700.oo RRP. Less than that. Half way would be ideal IF possible.
That is actually EASY to do.... dual opposed 21" + amp is way less than $1700 and will crush dual 12" all day....

2x 21" drivers = $940
2 sheets of wood = $80
Amp with DSP = $400


DONE....


Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
Wish List: Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html


Last edited by jujuman200; 03-14-2020 at 11:24 AM.
jujuman200 is online now  
post #7 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked: 1521
Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
That is actually EASY to do.... dual opposed 21" + amp is way less than $1700 and will crush dual 12" all day....


Juju
Thank you. However the ML is very precise tight and stunning for music as well. That's why I am asking if any DIY can possibly be a good match. If so could you please let me know of some recommended kit?

Cheers

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is online now  
post #8 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 11:37 AM
Advanced Member
 
jujuman200's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 802
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 406 Post(s)
Liked: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Thank you. However the ML is very precise tight and stunning for music as well. That's why I am asking if any DIY can possibly be a good match. If so could you please let me know of some recommended kit?

Cheers
So is this.... I find it funny that people buy commercial s&it then come to the DIY community asking for help then want to spew that their stuff is so much better. If you think that your ML is so superior then why are you here? Have you listened to anything DIY?

I would put that dual 21" up against your ML all day, any day and WIN every time. What most of us in this forum have will send your ML home crying... AND we didn't pay nearly as much as you did.... You could do A LOT with $3500 DIY...


Yes I have heard your ML.... my subs CRUSH IT is ALL aspects....



Juju
johnson636 likes this.

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
Wish List: Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html


Last edited by jujuman200; 03-14-2020 at 11:43 AM.
jujuman200 is online now  
post #9 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked: 1521
Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
So is this.... I find it funny that people buy commercial s&it then come to the DIY community asking for help then want to spew that their stuff is so much better. If you think that your ML is so superior then why are you here? Have you listened to anything DIY?

I would put that dual 21" up against your ML all day, any day and WIN every time. What most of us in this forum have will send your ML home crying... AND we didn't pay nearly as much as you did.... You could do A LOT with $3500 DIY...



Juju
Gee man, don't reply if you have issues please.
I posted because I do want to know if there is a DIY option just as good, either you can answer that or not but the condescending tone has no place here dude.
Yes I have heard great DIY that's why I am here but I need proper answers. Forgive me that I love the way that commercial crap sounds and that is my reference point. Can do better DIY? Hell that's what I want to know.
Musty Hustla likes this.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is online now  
post #10 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 12:10 PM
Advanced Member
 
jujuman200's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 802
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 406 Post(s)
Liked: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Gee man, don't reply if you have issues please.
I posted because I do want to know if there is a DIY option just as good, either you can answer that or not but the condescending tone has no place here dude.
Yes I have heard great DIY that's why I am here but I need proper answers. Forgive me that I love the way that commercial crap sounds and that is my reference point. Can do better DIY? Hell that's what I want to know.
Better DIY..... You can build a square box with 3 holes in it?

https://www.parts-express.com/lavoce...8-ohm--293-732

Wood

https://www.parts-express.com/behrin...yABEgIi7PD_BwE

Don't forget terminals, wire and stuffing..... Done...

Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
Wish List: Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html

jujuman200 is online now  
post #11 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked: 1521
Hmm thanks. That's only rated down to 30hz or am I not reading it correctly?

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is online now  
post #12 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 12:43 PM
Advanced Member
 
jujuman200's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 802
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 406 Post(s)
Liked: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Hmm thanks. That's only rated down to 30hz or am I not reading it correctly?
Ummmm.... I see that you don't know how speaker and acoustics work..... got it.... yes it will play way below 30Hz in a sealed box....



Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
Wish List: Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html

jujuman200 is online now  
post #13 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 01:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
a77cj7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Sturgis, SD
Posts: 1,818
Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 968 Post(s)
Liked: 1039
Build a new sub to blend in with Martin Logan Balanced Force

C’mon Juju, just because someone is new to the diy side of things and has some very common misconceptions, it doesn’t call for being condescending and generally dickish.

OP, Juju has given you a very good suggestion though. That 21” driver isn’t particularly designed for a sealed box, but will still work decently well. Running it sealed will allow it to integrate very nicely with your existing sealed sub. Yes, the driver is designed to be optimized for performance at higher frequencies, but it works very well down low too due to its large cone-displacement capability and high motor force.

Data-bass has actually tested that driver in a sealed box as well.
https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5d03...fcd5?_k=me75ll

It will require significant eq to get the frequency response you want, and more to correct for room issues. The amp juju recommended does have full eq capability built in.

If you would prefer to split the difference, and gain significant performance with a good diy-style driver, but with the build and EQ already done, check out offerings from PSA or JTR.
Here’s a sealed 18” from PSA:
https://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/s1812

That uses the B&C 18ds115 driver, and will absolutely blow away the ML sub you linked at a similar price point. Yes, the sound quality will be as good or better too.
a77cj7 is online now  
post #14 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked: 1521
Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
Ummmm.... I see that you don't know how speaker and acoustics work..... got it.... yes it will play way below 30Hz in a sealed box....



Juju
Dude you've got serious issues please don't reply. One day you'll get into a field you know nothing about and karma will find you.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297

Last edited by Bandyka; 03-14-2020 at 01:27 PM.
Bandyka is online now  
post #15 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked: 1521
Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
C’mon Juju, just because someone is new to the diy side of things and has some very common misconceptions, it doesn’t call for being condescending and generally dickish.

OP, Juju has given you a very good suggestion though. That 21” driver isn’t particularly designed for a sealed box, but will still work decently well. Running it sealed will allow it to integrate very nicely with your existing sealed sub. Yes, the driver is designed to be optimized for performance at higher frequencies, but it works very well down low too due to its large cone-displacement capability and high motor force.

Data-bass has actually tested that driver in a sealed box as well.
https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5d03...fcd5?_k=me75ll

It will require significant eq to get the frequency response you want, and more to correct for room issues. The amp juju recommended does have full eq capability built in.

If you would prefer to split the difference, and gain significant performance with a good diy-style driver, but with the build and EQ already done, check out offerings from PSA or JTR.
Here’s a sealed 18” from PSA:
https://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/s1812

That uses the B&C 18ds115 driver, and will absolutely blow away the ML sub you linked at a similar price point. Yes, the sound quality will be as good or better too.
That sounds very good Sir thank you. I was planning to get a mini DSP to integrate it all together, would that work?
I'll have a lot of reading to do obviously but I first wanted to get a basic idea of what was out there against my current sub.
I might end up selling the ML and use the $$ to build two.
sigpig likes this.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is online now  
post #16 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 01:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
a77cj7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Sturgis, SD
Posts: 1,818
Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 968 Post(s)
Liked: 1039
Build a new sub to blend in with Martin Logan Balanced Force

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
That sounds very good Sir thank you. I was planning to get a mini DSP to integrate it all together, would that work?

I'll have a lot of reading to do obviously but I first wanted to get a basic idea of what was out there against my current sub.

I might end up selling the ML and use the $$ to build two.


The minidsp is a great solution, its what I use in my setup as well. The nx3000d actually has the same eq capability, but the minidsp has lower crossover capability (10hz vs 20hz).
You can buy the nx3000 for cheaper, which doesn’t have the eq.

If you’re going to sell your sub and build two, going ported would be a better option.

A good way to get into diy would be a flatpack setup. Gsg has many nice options, these 21” cubes are a great one.
https://shop.gsgad.com/collections/r...-cube-two-pack
Check out the rest of the site, lots of options.

Of course, it is way cheaper to build from scratch if you are confident in your woodworking abilities, and have the necessary tools.

Chris
a77cj7 is online now  
post #17 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 01:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
jujuman200's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 802
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 406 Post(s)
Liked: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
C’mon Juju, just because someone is new to the diy side of things and has some very common misconceptions, it doesn’t call for being condescending and generally dickish.
I agree with you... BUT..... the person started with the dickish statements. My question was that if he thought the his ML was so much better, why was he seeking DIY help. This statement "However the ML is very precise tight and stunning for music as well" is very dickish and seems to suggest that DIY could not possibly be as good as this.... but I'll test the waters



Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
Wish List: Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html

jujuman200 is online now  
post #18 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked: 1521
Thanks Chris I'll read through all those links and options. It will be my next project they way it looks. I'll probably build one and see if I screw it up but if it works fine i'll probably make a second identical one. Lots to learn and fiddle with but its all fun and games.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is online now  
post #19 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked: 1521
Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
I agree with you... BUT..... the person started with the dickish statements. My question was that if he thought the his ML was so much better, why was he seeking DIY help. This statement "However the ML is very precise tight and stunning for music as well" is very dickish and seems to suggest that DIY could not possibly be as good as this.... but I'll test the waters



Juju
That's your interpretation of what I said Juju , have you heard the ML subs? have you read pro reviews etc before getting upset ?

I was looking for proper advice such as what Chris has given me. I am a beginner in the field yes, you were once too but you seem to forget that. Over and out.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is online now  
post #20 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 01:37 PM
osv
AVS Forum Special Member
 
osv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Thank you. However the ML is very precise tight and stunning for music as well. That's why I am asking if any DIY can possibly be a good match. If so could you please let me know of some recommended kit?
i had the same concerns about music and price, so i got a DS1510 with H600PEQ3 amp, and stuck it into an old hsu sonosub that i had laying around, but i sealed it, instead of venting: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/DS1500ci.html

rythmic audio uses servo feedback from the sub, that tells the amp the position of the cone, it works really well for music... i used rew and a mic for optimal placement in the room, which made a big difference, including huge gain on the very low end, in part because it's a pretty small room.

i would suggest that if you haven't used rew or something similar before, do that before anything else, because you'll definitely need it for adding a second sub... room treatment would also be a good idea, you can measure the difference it makes with rew.
osv is offline  
post #21 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked: 1521
Quote:
Originally Posted by osv View Post
i had the same concerns about music and price, so i got a DS1510 with H600PEQ3 amp, and stuck it into an old hsu sonosub that i had laying around, but i sealed it, instead of venting: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/DS1500ci.html

rythmic audio uses servo feedback from the sub, that tells the amp the position of the cone, it works really well for music... i used rew and a mic for optimal placement in the room, which made a big difference, including huge gain on the very low end, in part because it's a pretty small room.

i would suggest that if you haven't used rew or something similar before, do that before anything else, because you'll definitely need it for adding a second sub... room treatment would also be a good idea, you can measure the difference it makes with rew.
Thank you that's also great info. I am using REW to keep improving the room and setup especially after improving on treatment. I have DIY absorbers and combo panels placed, I am having a tough time with bass absorption though due to room dimension.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is online now  
post #22 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 01:42 PM
Advanced Member
 
jujuman200's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 802
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 406 Post(s)
Liked: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
That's your interpretation of what I said Juju , have you heard the ML subs? have you read pro reviews etc before getting upset ?

I was looking for proper advice such as what Chris has given me. I am a beginner in the field yes, you were once too but you seem to forget that. Over and out.
Yes I have heard those subs.... are they nice? Yes... are they special? NOPE.


Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
Wish List: Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html

jujuman200 is online now  
post #23 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 01:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
a77cj7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Sturgis, SD
Posts: 1,818
Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 968 Post(s)
Liked: 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
I agree with you... BUT..... the person started with the dickish statements. My question was that if he thought the his ML was so much better, why was he seeking DIY help. This statement "However the ML is very precise tight and stunning for music as well" is very dickish and seems to suggest that DIY could not possibly be as good as this.... but I'll test the waters



Juju


I didn’t take it that way at all. All I got is that he is very happy with his ML sub and doesn’t want to end up with a lower quality result.
This is a very fair concern, as I’m sure all of us have heard truly awful diy builds, usually automotive.

Considering the $3500 msrp of the ML sub, its easy to get the you-get-what-you-pay-for mindset. However, a dual-opposed sub is so simple, that really all you’re paying for is the ML name. I’m sure their EQ is good, but they can’t deal with YOUR room, so that makes it somewhat irrelevant.

Now if we hold diy to the size constraints of the ML, we can’t really beat it. You still end up with a dual-opposed sealed 10”. However, the cost will be closer to $500 than $3500.
If you let the size increase, diy can easily win on both output and cost.

Chris
jujuman200 and Bandyka like this.
a77cj7 is online now  
post #24 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked: 1521
Quote:
Originally Posted by a77cj7 View Post
I didn’t take it that way at all. All I got is that he is very happy with his ML sub and doesn’t want to end up with a lower quality result.

Chris
Precisely.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is online now  
post #25 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 02:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
johnson636's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere in the Outer Rim
Posts: 3,435
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1714 Post(s)
Liked: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
It will be my next project they way it looks. I'll probably build one and see if I screw it up but if it works fine i'll probably make a second identical one. Lots to learn and fiddle with but it's all fun and games.
Dude, I sure hope you know what you're getting yourself into...There's a sickness around these parts Down the Rabbit hole you go

Automation: Alexa- Harmony Hub- Wemo Dimmer Switch- Wemo Smart Plug BatCave: SY Triple Black
Video Image: JVC RS500- Sony UBP-800X- Chromecast- 125" wide 16x9 white over black spandex screen
Audio: 5.2.4 Marantz SR7011- (LCR) QSC 2180 - (Surrounds) (4) BIC FH6-LCR- (Atmos) (4) Dayton Audio B652 6-1/2-Inch- (Subs)2 23ishcuft ported HS24s 14-15Hz tune - 2 Devastator Minis B&C21ds115 - 4 PA460 in ported cabs 40Hz tune- FP20000Q- 2 Sanway FP10000Q- Crown XLS1500- . To be continued...
johnson636 is online now  
post #26 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked: 1521
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Dude, I sure hope you know what you're getting yourself into...There's a sickness around these parts Down the Rabbit hole you go
Yep I suspected that might be the case and it will be a never ending story but that is one of the reasons why I am looking into it as I can only do so much with ready made devices and I simply don't want to fork out huge amounts of $$ on subs anymore no matter how good they are, especially as I am getting into multiple subs. I know I may fail and succeed but I might just love the journey

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is online now  
post #27 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 02:17 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
a77cj7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Sturgis, SD
Posts: 1,818
Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 968 Post(s)
Liked: 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Yep I suspected that might be the case and it will be a never ending story but that is one of the reasons why I am looking into it as I can only do so much with ready made devices and I simply don't want to fork out huge amounts of $$ on subs anymore no matter how good they are, especially as I am getting into multiple subs. I know I may fail and succeed but I might just love the journey


Since it sounds like you are already familiar with REW and eq, I can promise you will succeed as long as your build quality is good.

The danger is the changing perspective on what is “good” or “enough”.

I can attest to being a victim of this, as I am currently in my shop working on an 80” tall subwoofer enclosure.

Chris
Heide264 and Bandyka like this.
a77cj7 is online now  
post #28 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 02:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
johnson636's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere in the Outer Rim
Posts: 3,435
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1714 Post(s)
Liked: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
I know I may fail and succeed but I might just love the journey
I don't believe this community will allow you to fail Mistakes, for sure. Fail, not a chance! Your journey will be epic. Just make sure you post lots of pics
Bandyka likes this.

Automation: Alexa- Harmony Hub- Wemo Dimmer Switch- Wemo Smart Plug BatCave: SY Triple Black
Video Image: JVC RS500- Sony UBP-800X- Chromecast- 125" wide 16x9 white over black spandex screen
Audio: 5.2.4 Marantz SR7011- (LCR) QSC 2180 - (Surrounds) (4) BIC FH6-LCR- (Atmos) (4) Dayton Audio B652 6-1/2-Inch- (Subs)2 23ishcuft ported HS24s 14-15Hz tune - 2 Devastator Minis B&C21ds115 - 4 PA460 in ported cabs 40Hz tune- FP20000Q- 2 Sanway FP10000Q- Crown XLS1500- . To be continued...
johnson636 is online now  
post #29 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked: 1521
I'm happy to make mistakes as long as I can correct them. Thanks for the enthusiasm it gives me confidence. I will start looking into options in the next few days and most likely will start working on the first one in a few weeks as time and budget allows. Hopefully the global virus drama won't affect things much in terms of shipping and supply.
I'll be back here for sure asking questions and posting progress
Looking forward to this.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is online now  
post #30 of 87 Old 03-14-2020, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,074
Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked: 1521
also following this guy:


he is one of the reasons why I got interested in DIY.
cdy2179 likes this.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off