Diysg 1299 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 163 Old 04-02-2020, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Diysg 1299

I have been interested in the 1299s for months now. My setup currently has one eminence kappa pro 12a driver along with B&C de250 compression drivers. They were large bookshelf speakers but built into towers for me because I am not doing "stands" etc to raise them up. My same thought process with the 1299s. I am very OCD about my room. I wanted the towers to look like a uniform one piece speaker. (Ill leave pics of them).

Now on to the 1299s. I have been in contact with @Erich H , @eng-399 , @blister64 and multiple others on building these sealed vs ported. I originally wanted to go with the layout of moving the top woofer down and raising the waveguide to the top like Kyle did with his. He built both of his left and right speakers ported to roughly 35hz and kept the center sealed. Ill attach pics. No doubt these look awesome. After speaking with Erich, he explained the reason for keeping the original design because of reflections etc... (Ill let him explain it better if he would like in a comment) So after debating on going with the original baffle or moving the woofer, mainly for looks and the waveguide being up top.

So, I am left with these questions or thoughts in my head. Feel free to comment because I have never built cabinets before.

1. I want to build them ported mainly because everyone I have spoken with that built them ported, loves them, and the sealed guys regret it. Maybe I didn't speak to enough owners yet. Ported it is!

2. I like the look of the towers Kyle built by moving the woofer, but if that is going to cause me issues, I'm out. I want the speaker to sound like it should, So... on that thought brings this:
If i still want to build them ported and keep the ORIGINAL baffle layout, can i just add the 5 inches or so that he did to the bottom of the speaker and do the slot port? I don't care how big the port is, it just looks better to me. As far as the tune, I'm fine with 40 or more. They don't have to dig deep. I have dual 18 subs for that. But like to very occasionally listen to music.

3. If I keep the original design, build the slot port, will the wave guide be ok sounding since I'm not sure where it falls compared to being seated. My seated reclined ear height is 32"-33" from floor, My seated ear height not reclined is 36"-37" from floor. (This might not be an issue now, since I have spoken with Ryan the designer of the 1299s and verified it will be ok to move the top woofer down. The waveguide will be up top.)

4: Will building the left and right speakers ported still match up with the sealed center? Or should be port the center(I can go wider). Spoke with Mike about this and when he said "I would port that too", thats all I needed to hear. Why not?

5: Im purchasing 5 total kits, Left, Right, Center, L&R surrounds. If im cutting the wood, Im thinking it will be just as easy to make everything the same, so why not build the surrounds the same as the fronts?
Definately going the same on fronts and surrounds unless something changes my mind before cutting wood.

Im attaching the pics of my room and Kyle's design for reference. My front speakers and exactly the same as my surrounds. I had them built all the same.

thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 163 Old 04-02-2020, 07:55 AM
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Diysg 1299

@Jk7.2 also built a nice set of ported 1299 towers.

Chris
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post #3 of 163 Old 04-02-2020, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is the progress post:

Everything showed up packed GREAT!


Unpacked a baffle to see how it looked next to my cardboard mock up speakers.


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post #4 of 163 Old 04-02-2020, 08:33 AM
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1299s for surrounds...that will be awesome
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post #5 of 163 Old 04-02-2020, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
1299s for surrounds...that will be awesome[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
The way my room is, I prefer towers because of the slanted ceilings. The room is roughly 30x15.

The surround towers sit behind the seating to the right and left. This is the only pic I have of the "current" setup. I originally had them way too close to the listening position.
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post #6 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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After speaking with Mike (awesome guy) we decided on towers no taller than 44-45ish. 45 is getting into possibly hitting the slopes ceilings.
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post #7 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by nezff View Post
After speaking with Mike (awesome guy) we decided on towers no taller than 44-45ish. 45 is getting into possibly hitting the slopes ceilings.
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Great!
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Would that be Louisiana?

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post #8 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post
After speaking with Mike (awesome guy) we decided on towers no taller than 44-45ish. 45 is getting into possibly hitting the slopes ceilings.
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Great!
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Would that be Louisiana?
yes sir!

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post #9 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post
Maybe🙂
Your response is garbled up. Just wanted to say Geaux Tigers...If that applies to you
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post #10 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 11:11 AM
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Your current speakers look really nice and the parts used are good. Not sure about the waveguide though, I'm sure the seos would have been a little better since they were designed for the DE250.

What are you planning on gaining from this "upgrade"? Or just upgrade for fun?

Your current speakers have to be in the 95-97db in sensitivity and that woofer is no slouch. Unless you were trying to run them full range.
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post #11 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post
Maybe🙂
Your response is garbled up. Just wanted to say Geaux Tigers...If that applies to you[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Back at ya!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
Your current speakers look really nice and the parts used are good. Not sure about the waveguide though, I'm sure the seos would have been a little better since they were designed for the DE250.

What are you planning on gaining from this "upgrade"? Or just upgrade for fun?

Your current speakers have to be in the 95-97db in sensitivity and that woofer is no slouch. Unless you were trying to run them full range.
Originally these were going to be double 12s, but after hearing them, knew I didn't need them. I don't think I'm trying to gain alot so to speak. If this move is more lateral, so be it. (For fun) I know that I will gain midrange drivers for sure. This alone along with my center channel being in a wonky configuration makes me want to try these.

Hey. If I build em, don't like em, I won't be out anything. I'm sure I can sell em. I'll keep my current speakers.

No doubt that the drivers are no slouch. These if I remember were rated at 97db and 72ish hz. Elemental designs cinema 12s they were called.
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post #12 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 12:05 PM
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Ported 1299s are certainly cool. I love the look of the waveguide up top, but that may not work as well as the MTM layout. The bottom woofer is further away from the midranges, but closer to the other woofer. So the integration between the two woofers should improve but get worse with the midranges. How much? Never know without testing. Having the midrange drivers should help since you're not going directly from woofer to CD. Maybe it all works just fine.

I would think you will be selling your current speakers not the 1299s. But yours are really nice so they should sell quickly.
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post #13 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
Ported 1299s are certainly cool. I love the look of the waveguide up top, but that may not work as well as the MTM layout. The bottom woofer is further away from the midranges, but closer to the other woofer. So the integration between the two woofers should improve but get worse with the midranges. How much? Never know without testing. Having the midrange drivers should help since you're not going directly from woofer to CD. Maybe it all works just fine.

I would think you will be selling your current speakers not the 1299s. But yours are really nice so they should sell quickly.
Definitely. I'm all about looks, but dont want to change the original design and sacrifice the sound. After speaking with @Erich H , I decided against the waveguide move. I know Blister64 told me that he was told that the double woofer could cause reflection issues along with others. Not sure if it was @mtg90 . I'd like to get his take though on that.

Also looking at other speakers like jtr, there has to be a reason the woofers are split.
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post #14 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by nezff View Post
Also looking at other speakers like jtr, there has to be a reason the woofers are split.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwoo...eter-midwoofer
PSA also makes MTM speakers, as does Kef, Monitor Audio, Q Acoustics, Canton etc.
Also, Jeff uses co-axial CDs on his higher-end speakers, so 3-way speakers...
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post #15 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 03:08 PM
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JTR also makes the 210RT. And I’ve heard those, and that is what I’d buy if I had the spare cash. So it’s not impossible to get great sound with both woofers below. But I would imagine the XO is setup slightly differently for each style.
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post #16 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sigpig View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post
Also looking at other speakers like jtr, there has to be a reason the woofers are split.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwoo...eter-midwoofer
PSA also makes MTM speakers, as does Kef, Monitor Audio, Q Acoustics, Canton etc.
Also, Jeff uses co-axial CDs on his higher-end speakers, so 3-way speakers...
I'm liking the three way design.

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JTR also makes the 210RT. And I’️ve heard those, and that is what I’️d buy if I had the spare cash. So it’️s not impossible to get great sound with both woofers below. But I would imagine the XO is setup slightly differently for each style.
Not to get too far off topic, but I cant afford those speakers.
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post #17 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 05:53 PM
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Lol, neither can I. My point was just to show that dual woofers below the waveguide can work very well. I have fusion 8 towers in my living room that have dual woofers below the WG and they sound great.
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post #18 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Lol, neither can I. My point was just to show that dual woofers below the waveguide can work very well. I have fusion 8 towers in my living room that have dual woofers below the WG and they sound great.
I agree they can work well. I'm just explaining to you what Erich explained about possible issues with moving the woofer which isnt the original design. I love the look.
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post #19 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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@Samps I'm looking for any info and help on the design of these speakers. I'm not going to lie, I've been in home theater a long time, just not into the design, building etc. If those double 12s next to each other work, im all for using Kyle's original design. Here is a shot of his cultist for the ported towers.
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post #20 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 06:49 PM
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I say go for it. If it doesn't work out to your liking, tear it down and start over. Hey, it's the diy way
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post #21 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I say go for it. If it doesn't work out to your liking, tear it down and start over. Hey, it's the diy way[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Original baffle design ported or TMWW?
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post #22 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 06:57 PM
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Original baffle design ported or TMWW?
TMWW. It's been done before. A couple times I believe. Haven't heard any negatives from the owners.

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post #23 of 163 Old 04-03-2020, 08:53 PM
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It will probably work just fine. If you consider that the woofer is only integrating with the midrange then the difference in distance isn’t much. With the woofer on top there is a waveguide separating them. With the woofer on the bottom there is a woofer separating them. The woofer isn’t that much taller than the waveguide.

Tux would be the best person to answer this question.

The design of that tower looks good. I have not modeled those woofers so I’m not sure if there would be any Benefit from going larger.
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I would however move the woofers as tight as possible to the midrange. The design you showed has the bottom woofer a little further away than necessary. Usually you want the drivers squeezed together as close as you can.
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I should have a plan for you soon with this. It was nice talking to on the phone to. I have the next few days off work which should speed things up on my end.
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post #26 of 163 Old 04-04-2020, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
It will probably work just fine. If you consider that the woofer is only integrating with the midrange then the difference in distance isn’t much. With the woofer on top there is a waveguide separating them. With the woofer on the bottom there is a woofer separating them. The woofer isn’t that much taller than the waveguide.

Tux would be the best person to answer this question.

The design of that tower looks good. I have not modeled those woofers so I’m not sure if there would be any Benefit from going larger.
I would think it would work fine also, but I have zero expertise in this area.

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I would however move the woofers as tight as possible to the midrange. The design you showed has the bottom woofer a little further away than necessary. Usually you want the drivers squeezed together as close as you can.
This was Kyles build and was designed by someone else. You can see his youtube vid of what he did. Basically just cut the top of the waveguide and woofer in half, move the woofer down to the bottom. Made another piece for a extension to serve as the slotted port. All in all in looks great. He said they sound great too. As he mentioned though, to our ears I dont think we would hear a difference or a issue if there was one. Not sure if the midbass would be cancelling out because of refelections etc.. Also contacting @tuxedocivic would be fine, which I have attempted, but he hasnt been on this board in roughly 10 months.

1299 Ported Towers
Baffle- 45" x 14.75" (Included with kit, modified and extended. To be flush trimmed with router)
Top- 14.75" x 17"
Sides- 44.25" x 16.25"
Bottom- 13.25" x 15.5"
Back- 44.25" x 13.25"
Port- 13.25" x 8.25"
Braces- 15.5" x 13.25"
*Port Dimension*- 13.25" x 9" x 2" This will give the box a tune of 34-35 Hz. When cutting the port opening with the front baffle in place, this adds an extra 0.75 inches to the length of the port, so this is why the port board is cut to 8.25" long for a total length of 9 inches.

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I should have a plan for you soon with this. It was nice talking to on the phone to. I have the next few days off work which should speed things up on my end.
Super excited. You sir are da man! I very much enjoyed our conversation also.
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post #27 of 163 Old 04-04-2020, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
TMWW. It's been done before. A couple times I believe. Haven't heard any negatives from the owners.
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I say go for it. If it doesn't work out to your liking, tear it down and start over. Hey, it's the diy way
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Ported 1299s are certainly cool. I love the look of the waveguide up top, but that may not work as well as the MTM layout. The bottom woofer is further away from the midranges, but closer to the other woofer. So the integration between the two woofers should improve but get worse with the midranges. How much? Never know without testing. Having the midrange drivers should help since you're not going directly from woofer to CD. Maybe it all works just fine.

I would think you will be selling your current speakers not the 1299s. But yours are really nice so they should sell quickly.
Just spoke with @tuxedocivic and he said moving the woofer is not an issue. He mentioned "alot of people do it because it looks nicer". He also stated that "the woofers they way they are help with floor and ceiling reflections. You'll loose that technical benefit, but its pretty small".
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post #28 of 163 Old 04-04-2020, 06:35 AM
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I think what Kyle did was good, he could have cut the bottom woofer panel a little tighter to move it up another inch. When it comes to speaker integration an inch can sometimes make a big difference. That’s why you see bookshelves that have the tweeter frame cut away to make it overlap the woofer. The closer they are together the better they integrate to create a single source of sound.

The woofers won’t be cancelling with each other. They would actually perform better in this layout being closer together. The problem is the bottom woofer being further away from the midrange. Again this difference isn’t big and depending on the xo frequency between the woofers and the midrange the distance may not be a problem at all.
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post #29 of 163 Old 04-04-2020, 06:39 AM
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Oh cool, tux got back to you. That’s good news.

I would still get that bottom woofer as close as you can.

I think diysg should consider a tower flat pack with this layout. It’s definitely how I would want it.
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post #30 of 163 Old 04-04-2020, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I think what Kyle did was good, he could have cut the bottom woofer panel a little tighter to move it up another inch. When it comes to speaker integration an inch can sometimes make a big difference. That’️s why you see bookshelves that have the tweeter frame cut away to make it overlap the woofer. The closer they are together the better they integrate to create a single source of sound.

The woofers won’️t be cancelling with each other. They would actually perform better in this layout being closer together. The problem is the bottom woofer being further away from the midrange. Again this difference isn’️t big and depending on the xo frequency between the woofers and the midrange the distance may not be a problem at all.
maybe couldve trimmed that panel on the table saw just a tad more to make woofers closer together? Ill see what @eng-399 thinks about that.
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