Quad DIYSG Buyout 15 Subwoofer Build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 32 Old 04-07-2020, 11:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Talking Quad DIYSG Buyout 15 Subwoofer Build

A couple months ago I decided I needed to build some new subs. I've built a Dayton Reference 15 HO sub years back that I sold, built a ported infinity sub for my brothers theater and a few other projects.

I'm currently running a pair of "18Hz Infinity Offset Horn Towers" designed by tsloms in THIS THREAD. My brother and I each built one years ago and I've had them both for the past year. While their output is decent, I have not been happy with the far-from-flat response curve. The significant peak at 60hz is awful in my room and I cannot get the full advantage of the horn tune as the 1260W drivers xmax doesn't allow it. And while I know a MiniDSP-HD or similar could help tame the 60hz peak, I've been aiming for the benchmark 'Reference' output levels for no other reason than having a goal.

I got caught up in the 'Multiple Cheap JBL Subwoofer' idea and was trying to find a good alternative, but wasn't having any real luck. Enter the DIYSG Buyout Subwoofer. Made by Eminence (story told HERE), and sold by Erich at DIY Sound Group. He had some B-Stock (perform fine, but cosmetic blemishes) for a steal and when all working together they were very potent and efficient.

After some educational discussion with Erich, I purchased four drivers.


Erich packs the drivers very well.


All four lined up. The photo makes them appear different sizes for some reason.


Can for scale.


These drivers have some serious magnets.


After going around and around with different designs, I think I've settled on a slot-ported, dual driver design. I really didn't like the idea of building four large boxes, so I think I'll go with two extra-large boxes to minimize the cuts and speed things up a bit. I played around with both WinISD and Unibox to arrive at the following:


To start with I'll be using my trusty--if less than glamorous--Behringer A500 fanless amp. It will put out 370W RMS, which when coupled to the combined sensitivity of the subs (they will be placed close together enough to 'act as one'), will get me significant output.


I know there are a lot of assumptions and calculated results don't always become apparent in the real, but it's the best I have to run with. With that current amp power, the excursion is about 5mm and the port air speed is stupid low. I'm panning ahead and making the box capable of a significant amp upgrade in the future to give each sub the 600W RMS it can handle. At 600W/driver it uses all xmax and just pushes the port airspeed into the danger zone (see the following imgur album link for more pics).

It's been so long since I built anything, the last being the Econowaves in my sig. I should be getting 4 sheets of mdf in a couple days to start my biggest build yet. I'll keep you all updated.

Relevant imgur album HERE.

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post #2 of 32 Old 04-08-2020, 10:25 AM
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I played around with a couple of those and liked them. Ended up putting one in a small sealed box for the wife's office, and selling off the other one. Clean, great value.

Look forward to seeing how these do in a larger ported box, the only real thing to add is 100% get a minidsp, it's a huge part of proper integration.
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post #3 of 32 Old 04-08-2020, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chris Popovich View Post
Look forward to seeing how these do in a larger ported box, the only real thing to add is 100% get a minidsp, it's a huge part of proper integration.
I do plan on getting a MiniDSP at some point. I just knew that even if I EQ'd my old horns I wouldn't get the performance I was really after. And with all the debate and everyone recommending the MiniDSP-HD over the basic, I felt the money was better spent getting the subs first. Then I'll take measurements and see where I'm at.
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post #4 of 32 Old 04-08-2020, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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So, my brother saw my plans and asked me, "No triangle ports?"

I have triangle ports on my mains (build thread in my sig):


I divided the slot port area over 4 ports (they got a little larger for the sake of round numbers) and came up with this baffle:


So, I did some editing and realized that the size of the ports also has them double as bracing for the box. I will add a few other braces to get the open area in the middle, but it became much more simplified:


The 90 degree turn in the port should be exactly like corners in crown molding. And for anyone curious, the 'center of area/mass' of a triangle is 1/3 up from the base and 1/3 in from the side. That's the center point of the section to determine the port length.

SO. I think I'll run with that for the time being...
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post #5 of 32 Old 04-08-2020, 07:05 PM
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When done, I'd be very interested in outdoor 1m/2.83V measurements. I've always been intrigued on what those drivers can do, vs the Lab15 stock.
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post #6 of 32 Old 04-09-2020, 03:37 PM
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Just out of curiosity, if you have the numbers handy, what would a pair of these look like in a 14-15cu ft net chamber with a tune of about 20hz? Or one driver in a 7-7.5cuft chamber same tune? Ill have to fire up the laptop but if you had some rough figures Id love to see them in terms of 2.83v/1m and full output power limited by excursion or power handling. Im looking for an f3 of 18hz or thereabouts and a total output of 120db up to 400hz.

If you have the TS loaded in the program and can spit it out quick great if not no worries. Thanks in advance!
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post #7 of 32 Old 04-10-2020, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry I didn't get back earlier. Despite all the quarantine stuff I still find myself quite busy.

See the attachments for some pics. 14cu ft box, 20hz tune. Looks like the F3 is 19hz. System sensitivity is 92dB 1W/1m, or 96.7dB 2.83Vrms/1m. Next I ran it at 1W system inut (0.5W per driver), then at 600W (max continuous for the driver) and it juuuust kisses over the excursion above tune (then obviously below it).
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post #8 of 32 Old 04-14-2020, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Besides having to wait in line for 20 minutes just to enter the store, Home Depot was out of all 3/4 mdf. However, I did find a material I hadn't noticed before. It's called Radiata Pine Plywood. Only $5 more per sheet, but it's an 11 ply 23/32in material that has been used by many to build speakers. It's also much lighter.

Pretty straight, free of voids from what I could see. Should be a good option.


Relevant imgur album HERE.
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post #9 of 32 Old 04-14-2020, 03:58 PM
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That looks decent enough! I just completed my 1st sub build with plywood. It turned out great! Glad to see you are moving forward.
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post #10 of 32 Old 04-14-2020, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentJ20 View Post
So, my brother saw my plans and asked me, "No triangle ports?"

I have triangle ports on my mains (build thread in my sig):
Man, you did one helluva job on those Econowaves
You should have no issue with a mear subwoofer cabinet build

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post #11 of 32 Old 04-14-2020, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SilentJ20 View Post
However, I did find a material I hadn't noticed before. It's called Radiata Pine Plywood.
You'll see that referred to as Arauco (manufacturer) or AraucoPly in many threads here. I've built a couple of subs with it, it's pretty solid stuff with few voids.

HD and Lowes no longer stock it near me and I am not sure why.
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post #12 of 32 Old 04-14-2020, 04:13 PM
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Quad DIYSG Buyout 15 Subwoofer Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
You'll see that referred to as Arauco (manufacturer) or AraucoPly in many threads here. I've built a couple of subs with it, it's pretty solid stuff with few voids.

HD and Lowes no longer stock it near me and I am not sure why.

The HD by me stocks it! Ask my 2 new Alpha devastator cabs. Lol
And you are by me, so you may need to look a little closer. It wasn’t labeled Arauco on the shelf. It was only labeled that on the actual sticker on the plywood. And interesting enough, it was on an isle head, not in the actual isle. Called ‘cabinet grade’
Anyway, sorry I had to throw that out there.
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post #13 of 32 Old 04-14-2020, 04:19 PM
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The HD by me stocks it! Ask my 2 new Alpha devastator cabs. Lol
And you are by me, so you may need to look a little closer. It wasn’t labeled Arauco on the shelf. It was only labeled that on the actual sticker on the plywood. And interesting enough, it was on an isle head, not in the actual isle. Called ‘cabinet grade’
Anyway, sorry I had to throw that out there.
Hey Jared!

Yeah, I can travel ~15 - 18 miles and get it, doesn't seem prudent to do that these days (and I don't have any speaker/sub plans right now ). But thanks for the heads up!

Just wanted to let the OP know the Radiata pine ply should work very well for their builds.

As we were, let's see some sawdust @SilentJ20 !!
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post #14 of 32 Old 04-14-2020, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Man, you did one helluva job on those Econowaves
You should have no issue with a mear subwoofer cabinet build
Thanks! These subs are definitely not my first build. This will be my (thinks for a minute...) eighth major build. It will be my largest, however.
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post #15 of 32 Old 04-14-2020, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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You'll see that referred to as Arauco (manufacturer) or AraucoPly in many threads here. I've built a couple of subs with it, it's pretty solid stuff with few voids.
Good to hear! I hope to start cutting stuff up in a day or two. I'm working from home, but it's still 10hr days...
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post #16 of 32 Old 04-14-2020, 07:08 PM
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Good to hear! I hope to start cutting stuff up in a day or two. I'm working from home, but it's still 10hr days...
I hear you, wfh myself and usually do 1 - 2 days per week. But this is a different beast as we seemingly never escape the computer these days.

Looking forward to seeing your progress, take lots of pics!

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post #17 of 32 Old 04-19-2020, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Managed to free up a few hours this weekend to get the sheets broken down. I planned on cutting 4 identical sheets stacked together. It wouldn't be the most efficient with waste, but it would be significantly faster. I had been too optimistic in thinking my saw would cut through 4 sheets at once. I ended up doing 2 at a time instead. Did all my cross-cuts first using a harbor freight saw clamp guide after being very careful to verify my saw was adjusted square.

Main pieces:


I'll get the port pieces and braces cut out using the table saw & chop saw in the next day or two. I debated on gluing the baffles together after I had cut the holes for the drivers. This would have worked as the driver frames are pretty spot on the same thickness of the plywood. But I was bothered more by the slight increase in difficulty in aligning them than cutting through the thicker baffle with the plunge router. I used my tried and true baffle lamination sandwich using very heavy things and clamps.



I had to double and triple check my measurements after seeing things laid out as the baffles looked too big. To calm my mind and get a better visual I sketched out the driver and ports on one.



Moving the sheets of ply around was a dream compared to mdf. I just hope the finishing aspect doesn't become horribly involved instead...

Relevant imgur album HERE.
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post #18 of 32 Old 04-21-2020, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Got the baffles cut, but I think I did something wrong. All I got was a stack of circles:


Ha. Ha.

Anyways.
I decided to try a different method for keeping the jasper jig cutting consistent and reliable. This is how I kept my hole size progression straight in my head. Locations 1-4 were mounting flange depth (just under 3/4 in) then 5 was full through. I overlapped about 1/16 or so to keep the flange clean and the cutter happy. I did have some tearing of the veneer, but it sanded smooth for the most part.



Overall I'm happy with the cutting process of this plywood. I get piles of sawdust rather than hazardous mdf powder.

Four cut baffles. One step at a time...

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post #19 of 32 Old 04-21-2020, 04:12 PM
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Looking good!

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post #20 of 32 Old 04-21-2020, 04:54 PM
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Looks like you’ve done that before! Nice work.
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post #21 of 32 Old 04-26-2020, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Made some progress. All four boxes are built, minus adding the front baffles.

I finally did a build where I feel like I had enough clamps.


They finally opened a harbor freight near me and every time I go I grab a couple more clamps just because.

I did run into a big snag, though. Earlier I mentioned I could cut the port pieces like crown molding. However, my miter saw was not large enough to manage the pieces--despite being a 12in blade (should have sprung for the sliding feature I guess). I made some guides for my circular saw. I did the miter via the guides, and the bevel on the circular saw.


As annoying as the ports were to make, they have the added benefit of acting like bracing as well. Typically, the recommended minimum span between braces is about 9 inches for the heavier, less-stiff MDF material (some parts-express forum thread, I think). Since the plywood is stiffer and lighter, the un-braced distances can be greater. I'll try only bracing the largest areas.


Next up is preparing the baffles. That means waiting on an amazon order for the blind nuts and bolts, though. And with how covid-era shipping has been lately, we'll see how it goes. Thanks for reading.

Relevant imgur album HERE.
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post #22 of 32 Old 04-29-2020, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I read through my own post real quick and realized something. At some point I went from two dual boxes to four single boxes, and I never explained myself. Not like I owe anyone an explanation, but after stating "I didn't like the idea of building four boxes" and showing plans for a dual box, but then showing pieces for four it seemed odd.

Basically, I decided I wanted the flexibility to move them around if needed. I will still be starting with them all together in the front of the room, and my room is small enough to not really have too many options, but I'll start with it.

Anyways, more progress. My amazon shipment arrived, so I could finally go play with my nuts.

T-nuts, that is.



After trying a big c-clamp to press one in I changed methods and used a spare bolt to pull them in. Plywood is soft, so the washer left an indent in the mounting surface. I made a support block from hardwood and no more issues. But the bolt gets HOT when doing this. After two baffles worth, I could not hold it in my bare hands. Swapped to a cold bolt, oiled the threads a bit and finished them.

That was the last thing needed before I could glue the baffles on. Which I then proceeded to do.



The fit was good enough I left each clamped for 45 mins for clue cure while I messed with other things, then I could un-clamp and do the next. Kind of on hold right now as I want the glue to completely dry and the rain to cooperate before I take these to the driveway again to cut the ports and trim all the edges.

Thanks for following.

Relevant imgur album HERE.
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post #23 of 32 Old 04-29-2020, 11:09 AM
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Regretting not getting these drivers, their sold out, even the B-stock
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post #24 of 32 Old 04-29-2020, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentJ20 View Post
Made some progress. All four boxes are built, minus adding the front baffles.

I finally did a build where I feel like I had enough clamps.


They finally opened a harbor freight near me and every time I go I grab a couple more clamps just because.
I've been reading here for a month or so and started thinking about doing some diy speakers/subs. Seeing your picture above makes me realize I need a LOT more clamps. To be fair I'll need to get a lot more than clamps before I begin. These are looking excellent btw.
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post #25 of 32 Old 04-29-2020, 05:45 PM
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Really looking forward to how you feel these sound both ported and sealed!
I have 4 of these sitting in their boxes waiting. I modeled qty: 4 - 3ft^3 sealed boxes in WinISD, if I did everything correctly I think I'll hit 110dB with only 200 watts per driver.
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post #26 of 32 Old 04-30-2020, 10:26 AM
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Get them hooked up! You will not be disappointed. Those longer ports are trick!
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post #27 of 32 Old 05-06-2020, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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With my cheapo plastic larger router baseplate out of commission I fabbed up a quick replacement to keep the router square during flush trimming and doing the roundovers. It's so much easier when you don't have to worry about the router rocking around on the edges, especially when trying to flush-trim 1.5 inches of baffle.



I forgot to take a couple pics, but to get the ports opened up I drilled three holes in the corners with a forstner bit, cut the majority out with a jigsaw, then used a flush-trim bit to even it all out.



Made a big oops when flush-trimming the edges. When I came around the corner to finish off the trim, I accidentally went over the port area which, of course, has no surface to support the bearing on the bit.



This was a point where I solidified my finish choice. Here's the thing:

MDF is wonderfully uniform and is very consistent when trimming. This ply, however, splinters and peels if you look at it wrong. I had so many nicks, splits and delaminations it took my options of clean & smooth vs rustic and made the decision for me. These subs will live in the shadows. They are to be heard, function over form. And this is one project I just don't want to take the time to fill, prep, sand, seal, sand some more, prime and paint.

I recently built a quick flexi-style equipment rack (old one was too wide to fit the subs) using regular dimensional lumber, and I used Varathane's charred wood accelerator.



It's rough, hides in the dark, still looks decent but is stupid fast and easy to apply. So, onward...

All four trimmed, rounded and sanded.



Another thrifty solution I stumbled upon when building my WMTMW Towers (sig link is out of date, and tinypic is a bum) was using hockey pucks for feet. They're cheap, uniform and easy to slide on carpet. I put one coat of the finish on the bottoms and mounted the feet.



Hope to get the rest of the sides finished soon so I can mount the terminal cups and the drivers. As for now I am sub-less, so there is a sense of urgency, haha.
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post #28 of 32 Old 05-06-2020, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by SilentJ20 View Post
Another thrifty solution I stumbled upon when building my WMTMW Towers (sig link is out of date, and tinypic is a bum) was using hockey pucks for feet. They're cheap, uniform and easy to slide on carpet. I put one coat of the finish on the bottoms and mounted the feet.



Hope to get the rest of the sides finished soon so I can mount the terminal cups and the drivers. As for now I am sub-less, so there is a sense of urgency, haha.
Hockey pucks is a great idea!! Might add those to my subs as I undersized the feet and one broke while adjusting the placement of the sub, so now I'm scared to move them all. Looks like you just screw through them. Is that it for attaching them?
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post #29 of 32 Old 05-06-2020, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottvalentin View Post
Hockey pucks is a great idea!! Might add those to my subs as I undersized the feet and one broke while adjusting the placement of the sub, so now I'm scared to move them all. Looks like you just screw through them. Is that it for attaching them?
For now I do only have one screw. However, these pucks seem to be a little softer than the others I've used. I'll probably add some more just for the peace of mind.
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post #30 of 32 Old 05-07-2020, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Did some more to get them into the house. The finish isn't completely dry here, so it looks a little blotchy in some areas. It's actually harder to get it evenly applied than I thought it would be.



Got the plates mounted for the terminal cups. Fabbed up a little clamping tool to hold the plate in place while I fastened it from the back.



Who else puts their terminal cups upside-down with the banana plugs pointing up? I like the idea of gravity holding the plugs in place.



I'm not very happy with these cups, though. They have very poor hole depths for the banana plugs. Cheap junk, I guess. I may change to spades at some point, but for now these hold things alright.

Then, I moved them into the media room. Here they are with my new entertainment center and Econowave mains. I have limited options for arrangement of them in this room, so they'll start here and I'll listen a bit and maybe run a couple sweeps to see how they do. The white table is my pandemic-lockdown-work-from-home desk, not a permanent fixture...



Hope to give them a good workout tonight or tomorrow. Each sub is 8-ohm, single voice coil. I have each pair tied together in parallel, then those sets wired in series to the amp for a single 8-ohm load for my amp--Behringer A500--in bridged mode. The A500 doesn't do 4-ohm bridged, which was part of the reason I chose these subs. They're efficient enough and my initial investigation showed I could hit peak reference at listening position with only the [email protected] (RMS) this amp puts out. But the subs also have the headroom to go 600W RMS each if I so choose. Time will tell how much power I really need (or want). The A500 is fanless, so that's really appealing.

Will give impressions later

Relevant imgur album HERE.
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