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post #1 of 28 Old 05-05-2020, 02:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Finalizer Devastator V2 DF...

@Red Five
Hey RF.... here is a sneak peek..... it's about to go down!!!







Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
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post #2 of 28 Old 05-05-2020, 05:15 AM
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Ohhh Boy! This is going to Fantastic!!!

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post #3 of 28 Old 05-05-2020, 05:38 AM
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I see the panels have numbers, looks like you are ready to tear through this build!

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post #4 of 28 Old 05-05-2020, 07:52 AM
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Juju, when you finish could you grab us a near field measurement before the pillows take up permanent residence in the rear chamber?
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post #5 of 28 Old 05-05-2020, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Juju, when you finish could you grab us a near field measurement before the pillows take up permanent residence in the rear chamber?
Will do...


Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
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post #6 of 28 Old 05-05-2020, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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UPDATE:
things went well today and If I get an early start... I could be finished construction tomorrow evening... YAY. Currently, we are ready for internal paint.....Just posted some dry fit pics..... will keep you posted...












@Red Five



Juju
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Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
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post #7 of 28 Old 05-05-2020, 06:52 PM
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Nice work! Is the assembly going smoothly?

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post #8 of 28 Old 05-05-2020, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Nice work! Is the assembly going smoothly?
This is WAY easier to do..... I did ALL of this today and I started at almost 3pm and finished around 8:30pm..... Thanks buddy...


Juju
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Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
Wish List: Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html


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post #9 of 28 Old 05-05-2020, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
This is WAY easier to do..... I did ALL of this today and I started at almost 3pm and finished around 8:30pm..... Thanks buddy...


Juju
I will do my darndest to keep the simplicity on a shallower design. I have to do some tinkering in HR. If it sims well I might do a front access hatch and change the woofer's offset position in the tube. The depth would be fixed, need to keep the port length at 43" or less and get around the back of the QW.

Gravity looks to be an ally on this particular beast!

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post #10 of 28 Old 05-05-2020, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
I will do my darndest to keep the simplicity on a shallower design. I have to do some tinkering in HR. If it sims well I might do a front access hatch and change the woofer's offset position in the tube. The depth would be fixed, need to keep the port length at 43" or less and get around the back of the QW.

Gravity looks to be an ally on this particular beast!
Realistically, the hardest part to do by yourself is getting started by attaching the bottom to a side piece..... after that is cake....

EDIT: But then again... when you have wrestled with a FULL SIZE LFE by yourself..... most other builds are cake.....

Juju
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Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
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post #11 of 28 Old 05-06-2020, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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UPDATE TIME:
@Red Five

So ... I will give you the spoiler up front and work my way back... This thing is most excellent indeed....

Back to square one.... I already had the wood cut for a 2nd full size LFE. I just had to
resize a few panels and cut a new top/bottom for this new sub… This build took me TWO DAYS to go BOOM…. Yes 2 days…. What else do I have to do during the beer flu?

So before I wax poetic, let me give you all who may not know… I have been a live sound engineer for 30+ years and I know great sound when I hear it….. now that is out of the way.

**ALL the other Devastators were PRACTICE of RF to hone his craft…. This thing is bananas.

This variant has a slightly different tone to it that is buttery smooth like hot movie popcorn….now the full size LFE does dig a tick deeper.. BUT it can’t touch the midbass of the latest finalizer. It’s NOT a sheer volume thing but a more 3D holographic quality to the bass. It has a more open vibe and expansive soundstage….. it just sounds less congested.

WOW… I’m starting to sound like one of those “audiofools” who purchase $3k interconnect cables….. I digress…..

YES… I did put them head to head and one is NOT BETTER than the other they are ever so slightly different and it would be hard to tell if they were not side by side.

For the listening…. 4+ hours worth… I disconnected and switched out my Mini and didn’t miss it at all. I also had to drop 40Hz about 2db and 60 Hz 3db. Now IF I had to start from scratch….. I would still build one of each…. A full size LFE 16Hz and a Finalizer V2 DF. They both bring something to the table that is worth having… those coupled with 2 full martys…. Man Listen….

WAIT….. and IF you should “NEED” more…. You can stack them to your hearts content.. WIN-WIN

IF you can accommodate a sub that size…. You OWE IT TO YOURSELF…. To give this sub a GO….. I’m already looking at the fact that 2 high is only 64”….. just sayin’

MY ultimate bass banging system would be 4- Finalizer V2 DF + 2- Full Size LFE with the 16Hz tune + 2- “Full Marty” tunes to 17Hz with the Lavoce 21” bringing the noise….

@Red Five Sir… you are the man…. Thank you for all the you have done....

Juju
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post #12 of 28 Old 05-07-2020, 06:17 AM
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Glad to hear they are living up to expectations Can they reach higher than the LFE if you start playing around with the crossovers? There are no 90 degree corners in this setup, not sure how much effect that would have on the tone. The QW is loading the woofer a lot more on this vs the LFE, that could have a small effect. I need to get this in the Index later...

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post #13 of 28 Old 05-07-2020, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
Realistically, the hardest part to do by yourself is getting started by attaching the bottom to a side piece..... after that is cake....

EDIT: But then again... when you have wrestled with a FULL SIZE LFE by yourself..... most other builds are cake.....

Juju
Dang it, now I want cake...
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post #14 of 28 Old 05-08-2020, 11:24 PM - Thread Starter
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So boys and girls….. this is the final installment of the Finalizer V2 DF story…

It’s been an interesting ride and definitely worth it. These boxes are killer in the best possible way…. As I have said before, they do sound a little different than the other Devs in a good way.

The midbass has more weight to it and presence. The bottom end is nice and rich and full like it should be. The GREAT thing is that they DO NOT RING nearly as much as the Full Size LFE at high volume…. Actually, you might not notice it. All in all, this box should be on your short list….





















Juju
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Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
Wish List: Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html


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post #15 of 28 Old 05-24-2020, 05:15 AM
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@jujuman200 how’s the sound signature of the Finalizer compared to a ported 21” cab. I’m on the fence between the Finalizer and a large ported 21”. I want to go with the Dev, but I’m a little nervous that I might be disappointed with the ringing.
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post #16 of 28 Old 05-24-2020, 05:49 AM
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So, what you are saying is that from 20-100hz it does not miss a thing? And the weight of an LFE is / is not needed? And could be replaced with a BOSS?

With all my concrete I am always looking for the next 20-100 box because BOSS is a must in my room, but weight / thick bass is hard to do with something that also does midbass well.
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post #17 of 28 Old 05-24-2020, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redliner140 View Post
@jujuman200 how’s the sound signature of the Finalizer compared to a ported 21” cab. I’m on the fence between the Finalizer and a large ported 21”. I want to go with the Dev, but I’m a little nervous that I might be disappointed with the ringing.
First lets get the obvious out of the way..... IF you are talking about the Finalizer V2 DF [I CAN'T speak to the Finalizer V1].... ringing is NOT AN ISSUE.... but you also have to put TWO PILLOWS in the box vertically and not block the vent. Oh and BTW.... I run CLUB VOLUME in my house on occasion.....HOUSE MUSIC all night long... So if it was going to ring... I would know.....

Being that I have had BOTH in my system at the same time..... IF I had to pick one it would be the Finalizer all day... yes the boxes are of similar size AND tune.

The Finalizer is a weird beast [as well as ALL the Devs] in that it's ultra clean tone is REALLY HARD to describe without sounding like an audiofool fanboy.... THIS is one box that you have to hear in person to really understand its tone. If you read through the DEV threads you will see that I'm not the only one who says this about the Devs. They have a tone that you actually have to get used to.... which is not a bad thing.

HEAD to HEAD:

Room pressurization: DEV.... Devs can really bring out the room rattles...

Tone: EVEN.... they sound very different from each other. One is NOT better.. but you will prefer one or the other. IMHO the Devs have a more solid and grounded vibe that I like.

Grunt: DEV...now this is NOT from an SPL perspective...I had the same driver in both boxes and metered the same SPL... the Dev will be perceived as not as loud BUT, MORE enveloping and present. With a ported 21, if you are hitting 120db in your space.. you will know it from your ears.... with the Dev, your ears may not think it's that loud but your body will know. Not just from the midbass punch but the whole experience.... in summery, 120db ported and 120db from a 6th order bandpass box are two VERY different experiences.

System integration: EVEN

Ease of build: PORTED.... now a Dev is not harder at all.. it just takes longer to do.

Like I and others have said..... just build it.... worse case.... remove the front panel and you are back to a ported box again.

I hope this helps..


Juju
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Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
Wish List: Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html


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post #18 of 28 Old 05-24-2020, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile75 View Post
So, what you are saying is that from 20-100hz it does not miss a thing? And the weight of an LFE is / is not needed? And could be replaced with a BOSS?

With all my concrete I am always looking for the next 20-100 box because BOSS is a must in my room, but weight / thick bass is hard to do with something that also does midbass well.
OK....in my room, NOTHING is missing from 14-100Hz and the Finalized V2 DF hits hard down to that range.... AND will give you plenty of midbass.... this box can and does BOTH in my space. If you are asking IF you need to build a Full Size LFE.... the answer is NO.... BUT... the Full Size does dig a HAIR DEEPER..... is it enough to worry about NOPE....

On to the BOSS..... the BOSS is a wonderful BASS SHAKER DEVICE with very little SPL. It is for the ULF that you can not hear but feel.... so a BOSS DOES NOT replace subs... it augments them. You still need subs for 20Hz and up.

IF I had to start over from zero knowing what I know, with the space I have for subs and a budget. I would build the following:

Four Finalizer V2 DF [stacked in the rear] + Two 21" "Full Marty type" tuned to 17Hz [up front] + BOSS under my chairs...

My room is 21x17x8.... plenty of bang going on....


Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
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Juju are you using the isolators on the BOSS or the inner tubes? One of the local guys did the inner tubes and it is a big difference down low!

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Hey @Red Five , congrats on new born. I am using inner tubes and they are great. I do have isolators too in the beginning but moved to tubes and all the weight is now on tubes. This lets your driver take more power.
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post #21 of 28 Old 05-24-2020, 06:19 PM
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On the second sub, I have slightly wrongly clamped the front baffle, meaning the right corner between the front and the baffle is 4.5” instead of 5” deep. Again this is only in the corner and the majority of the resonator is at 5” depth. Is this likely to cause issues?


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post #22 of 28 Old 05-24-2020, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Juju are you using the isolators on the BOSS or the inner tubes? One of the local guys did the inner tubes and it is a big difference down low!
Using iso now but have the tubes.... just didn't get to it yet... Thanks for the tip...


Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
Wish List: Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html


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post #23 of 28 Old 05-24-2020, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monty6400 View Post
On the second sub, I have slightly wrongly clamped the front baffle, meaning the right corner between the front and the baffle is 4.5” instead of 5” deep. Again this is only in the corner and the majority of the resonator is at 5” depth. Is this likely to cause issues?


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You should be fine.....it won't be a difference you could hear.... as long as that seam is sealed tight...



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Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
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post #24 of 28 Old 05-24-2020, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
First lets get the obvious out of the way..... IF you are talking about the Finalizer V2 DF [I CAN'T speak to the Finalizer V1].... ringing is NOT AN ISSUE.... but you also have to put TWO PILLOWS in the box vertically and not block the vent. Oh and BTW.... I run CLUB VOLUME in my house on occasion.....HOUSE MUSIC all night long... So if it was going to ring... I would know.....

Being that I have had BOTH in my system at the same time..... IF I had to pick one it would be the Finalizer all day... yes the boxes are of similar size AND tune.

The Finalizer is a weird beast [as well as ALL the Devs] in that it's ultra clean tone is REALLY HARD to describe without sounding like an audiofool fanboy.... THIS is one box that you have to hear in person to really understand its tone. If you read through the DEV threads you will see that I'm not the only one who says this about the Devs. They have a tone that you actually have to get used to.... which is not a bad thing.

HEAD to HEAD:

That’s
Room pressurization: DEV.... Devs can really bring out the room rattles...

Tone: EVEN.... they sound very different from each other. One is NOT better.. but you will prefer one or the other. IMHO the Devs have a more solid and grounded vibe that I like.

Grunt: DEV...now this is NOT from an SPL perspective...I had the same driver in both boxes and metered the same SPL... the Dev will be perceived as not as loud BUT, MORE enveloping and present. With a ported 21, if you are hitting 120db in your space.. you will know it from your ears.... with the Dev, your ears may not think it's that loud but your body will know. Not just from the midbass punch but the whole experience.... in summery, 120db ported and 120db from a 6th order bandpass box are two VERY different experiences.

System integration: EVEN

Ease of build: PORTED.... now a Dev is not harder at all.. it just takes longer to do.

Like I and others have said..... just build it.... worse case.... remove the front panel and you are back to a ported box again.

I hope this helps..


Juju
That’s a big help. Thanks a lot.
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post #25 of 28 Old 05-24-2020, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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That’s a big help. Thanks a lot.
All good...


Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
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What amp are you using on these?
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post #27 of 28 Old 05-24-2020, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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What amp are you using on these?
iNuke 3K DSP.....


Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
Wish List: Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html

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post #28 of 28 Old 06-23-2020, 12:55 PM
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The build thread is on the Index!
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