The Hammer Sub Got a High Gloss Piano Finish. Video! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 41 Old 05-05-2020, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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The Hammer Sub Got a High Gloss Piano Finish. Video!

Here's a how to step by step of the HAMMER sub getting a paint job. Also check out the isolation platform video clip at the end.

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post #2 of 41 Old 05-05-2020, 12:58 PM
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again, awesome!
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post #3 of 41 Old 05-05-2020, 07:10 PM
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That came out beautiful! Well done!
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post #4 of 41 Old 05-05-2020, 07:32 PM
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Looks terrible. I get better gloss from my duratex finishes.



I keed, I keed! Great job, looks beautiful. I *think* I'll be doing some of those things in the next iteration of sub building... but I may farm it out to an auto painter. Great job!

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post #5 of 41 Old 05-06-2020, 05:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks terrible. I get better gloss from my duratex finishes.



I keed, I keed! Great job, looks beautiful. I *think* I'll be doing some of those things in the next iteration of sub building... but I may farm it out to an auto painter. Great job!

Chris
Yeah I think I'll cover it with some vintage wall paper.

Thanks. It's definitely more work than duratex but the finish is without a doubt worth it.
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post #6 of 41 Old 05-06-2020, 05:41 AM
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Excellent video and the subwoofer came out beautifully. I'm tempted to give that finish a try on my next project once I decide what speakers I want.
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post #7 of 41 Old 05-06-2020, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Excellent video and the subwoofer came out beautifully. I'm tempted to give that finish a try on my next project once I decide what speakers I want.
Thanks. I've got some old Paradigm bookshleves with a black cheap finish. I think I'm gonna do a video where I veneer them and lacquer them. I have some burl veneer on hand so why not. That's really super easy and looks so good. I like the base/clear better but it's totally a preference thing.
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post #8 of 41 Old 05-06-2020, 06:42 AM
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I NEVER get results like this. So yes, it can be screwed up. lol
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post #9 of 41 Old 05-06-2020, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I NEVER get results like this. So yes, it can be screwed up. lol
OK I stand corrected..
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post #10 of 41 Old 05-06-2020, 12:34 PM
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[QUOTE=cdy2179;59597394]Here's a how to step by step of the HAMMER sub getting a paint job. Also check out the isolation platform video clip at the end.

Are you in car paining?
Fantastic job!

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post #11 of 41 Old 05-06-2020, 01:11 PM
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Thanks. I've got some old Paradigm bookshleves with a black cheap finish. I think I'm gonna do a video where I veneer them and lacquer them. I have some burl veneer on hand so why not. That's really super easy and looks so good. I like the base/clear better but it's totally a preference thing.
I would definitely be interested in seeing that. I'll keep an eye on your channel.

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post #12 of 41 Old 05-07-2020, 06:59 PM
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It came out looking nice. Great attention to detail! I'm assuming he reduced the basecoat before he gave it to you, otherwise it doesn't spray so nice.

To save you some work on all the sanding next time, its much quicker to sand the clear down with 600 and get it flat, then re-clear. The second time you clear, it should come out much slicker, especially if you add a little reducer to cut down the viscosity.

Where did you get the rubber feet from? I was looking at a site called isolateit.com but didn't see those.
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post #13 of 41 Old 05-07-2020, 07:01 PM
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Oh, and love your theater, BTW!
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post #14 of 41 Old 05-07-2020, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by paintguy View Post
It came out looking nice. Great attention to detail! I'm assuming he reduced the basecoat before he gave it to you, otherwise it doesn't spray so nice.

To save you some work on all the sanding next time, its much quicker to sand the clear down with 600 and get it flat, then re-clear. The second time you clear, it should come out much slicker, especially if you add a little reducer to cut down the viscosity.

Where did you get the rubber feet from? I was looking at a site called isolateit.com but didn't see those.
Reduce the base coat? It get binder not reducer. If you absolutely had to, you can use water to reduce it. It you only ever do that with GM 800J tri-stage because it's thick as hell in Axlata and spies.

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post #15 of 41 Old 05-07-2020, 07:28 PM
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Reduce the base coat? It get binder not reducer. If you absolutely had to, you can use water to reduce it. It you only ever do that with GM 800J tri-stage because it's thick as hell in Axlata and spies.
Actually, the binder is already part of the mix. The can it was in (6052) is one of the three reducers used in Spies Hecker HiTec. Yes, water can be used to reduce it, but only in certain circumstances is it recommended.

And yes, whites are the highest in viscosity.
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post #16 of 41 Old 05-07-2020, 08:07 PM
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6050, 6052 and 6053 are temp/ humidity control additive Binders. Though I see we are taking about the same thing now.
Pre mixed will last for over a year, you just have to add a bit more 6052 to it when you go to spray if it's been more than a month. We used Axalta/spies (both lines) for my last 19 years of painting.
Man, going from solvent to water was quite the shocker for the old guys lol. I personally loved water, it was a million times better to spray.

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post #17 of 41 Old 05-08-2020, 05:50 AM
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6050, 6052 and 6053 are temp/ humidity control additive Binders. Though I see we are taking about the same thing now.
Pre mixed will last for over a year, you just have to add a bit more 6052 to it when you go to spray if it's been more than a month. We used Axalta/spies (both lines) for my last 19 years of painting.
Man, going from solvent to water was quite the shocker for the old guys lol. I personally loved water, it was a million times better to spray.
The 6050, 6052, 6053, etc are referred to as "additives", technically, and have different amounts of exempt solvents, butyl esters, etc to control the evisceration rate of the water in the film. Then the solvent is the last thing to come out as the film coalesces. They are totally different and don't have the resin matrix of the basecoat or the wet bed.

Yeah, the HiTech is awesome, which is why so many shops are spraying it. Besides the fact that all of Canada is already mandated. I was just thinking that if the guy that gave the color to him didn't add the reducer, then it doesn't spray so nice and could produce some texture among other issues ... ask me how I know. I've sprayed it nine ways to Sunday. I was on a team that worked with our Product Development Group before we released this version of our water that replaced Permahyd. We refer to it internally as the 3WB platform.

Sorry @cdy2179 , didn't mean to hijack your thread!
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post #18 of 41 Old 05-08-2020, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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It came out looking nice. Great attention to detail! I'm assuming he reduced the basecoat before he gave it to you, otherwise it doesn't spray so nice.

To save you some work on all the sanding next time, its much quicker to sand the clear down with 600 and get it flat, then re-clear. The second time you clear, it should come out much slicker, especially if you add a little reducer to cut down the viscosity.

Where did you get the rubber feet from? I was looking at a site called isolateit.com but didn't see those.
Thanks.

When I saw "the paint guy" had responded I was thinking ohh crap! I'm sure I screwed something up..

Yeah I'm familiar with sanding between coats. I almost mentioned it in the video as I know exotic cars are some times done this way but really wasn't worried about peel because I wanted to show it fixed and figured with 4 coats I'd have it. I'll definitely use the DA to do the initial sanding next time. My first time I did this (this is my 2nd) it came out with very little peel but I did only 2 coats then. I'm kinda glad I had bad peel though in the video as it shows that if it sucks don't worry you can fix it.

The feet were from Amazon. There's a link to them in the description of ep 34.
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post #19 of 41 Old 05-08-2020, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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The 6050, 6052, 6053, etc are referred to as "additives", technically, and have different amounts of exempt solvents, butyl esters, etc to control the evisceration rate of the water in the film. Then the solvent is the last thing to come out as the film coalesces. They are totally different and don't have the resin matrix of the basecoat or the wet bed.

Yeah, the HiTech is awesome, which is why so many shops are spraying it. Besides the fact that all of Canada is already mandated. I was just thinking that if the guy that gave the color to him didn't add the reducer, then it doesn't spray so nice and could produce some texture among other issues ... ask me how I know. I've sprayed it nine ways to Sunday. I was on a team that worked with our Product Development Group before we released this version of our water that replaced Permahyd. We refer to it internally as the 3WB platform.

Sorry @cdy2179 , didn't mean to hijack your thread!
I just called him and yes he had already added reducer.

You're not hijacking anything. It's good info.
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post #20 of 41 Old 05-08-2020, 07:29 AM
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Thanks.

When I saw "the paint guy" had responded I was thinking ohh crap! I'm sure I screwed something up..

Yeah I'm familiar with sanding between coats. I almost mentioned it in the video as I know exotic cars are some times done this way but really wasn't worried about peel because I wanted to show it fixed and figured with 4 coats I'd have it. I'll definitely use the DA to do the initial sanding next time. My first time I did this (this is my 2nd) it came out with very little peel but I did only 2 coats then. I'm kinda glad I had bad peel though in the video as it shows that if it sucks don't worry you can fix it.

The feet were from Amazon. There's a link to them in the description of ep 34.
Naww man, It's all good. Turned out great! You'd think I could of come up with a little more original name ... I'm sure I'll be picking your brain when I actually start my HT build.

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post #21 of 41 Old 05-08-2020, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Naww man, It's all good. Turned out great! You'd think I could of come up with a little more original name ... I'm sure I'll be picking your brain when I actually start my HT build.
Thanks! I have a ton of straight forward info on the channel to help people not make the many mistakes we constantly see. I've make most of the mistakes myself during the HT journey. If you need anything just let me know.
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post #22 of 41 Old 05-08-2020, 09:18 AM
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Incredible work! Thanks for taking the effort to make and upload this video.

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post #23 of 41 Old 05-12-2020, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Incredible work! Thanks for taking the effort to make and upload this video.
Thanks. This was definitely one of the more fun videos to make.
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post #24 of 41 Old 05-13-2020, 08:26 PM
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I love the paint job, excellent work.

Question: are there any waves in your paint when you look down the sides? I find even with MDF I have to body work it with filler and block sand before I can spray primer. Even when my MDF looks straight there always ends up being some high/low spots that I have to work out or they show up in the end product, especially if there is a mirror finish like this.

I am just wondering if I am overthinking it and working too hard because your work came out fantastic and I didn’t see that you had to body work the box at all.

This, of course, comes after a long day of applying filler and block sanding so I am hoping there is an easier way.


-Trevor
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post #25 of 41 Old 05-14-2020, 05:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I love the paint job, excellent work.

Question: are there any waves in your paint when you look down the sides? I find even with MDF I have to body work it with filler and block sand before I can spray primer. Even when my MDF looks straight there always ends up being some high/low spots that I have to work out or they show up in the end product, especially if there is a mirror finish like this.

I am just wondering if I am overthinking it and working too hard because your work came out fantastic and I didn’t see that you had to body work the box at all.

This, of course, comes after a long day of applying filler and block sanding so I am hoping there is an easier way.


-Trevor
Thanks!

No there's no waves. I could have block sanded a little more as there's a little orange peel if you look hard enough but you have to really be looking. I should have used the DA sander with 1k grit instead of the block sander. It's definitely a finish that makes you do a double and triple take and makes you same Dayum! Now I do use cabinet grade (premium MDF) so that could be why I don't have low spots. In this build and the other time I used this method I didn't have to fill anything but brad nail holes. Prep for priming was quick. fill holes and sand.

Here's the build thread the first time I did this. Notice I didn't wet sand the clear as the orange peel wasn't too bad but a few months later I did wet sand it down to a perfect glass finish.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...ule-build.html





.

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post #26 of 41 Old 05-14-2020, 08:42 AM
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Thanks!



No there's no waves. I could have block sanded a little more as there's a little orange peel if you look hard enough but you have to really be looking. I should have used the DA sander with 1k grit instead of the block sander. It's definitely a finish that makes you do a double and triple take and makes you same Dayum! Now I do use cabinet grade (premium MDF) so that could be why I don't have low spots. In this build and the other time I used this method I didn't have to fill anything but brad nail holes. Prep for priming was quick. fill holes and sand.



Here's the build thread the first time I did this. Notice I didn't wet sand the clear as the orange peel wasn't too bad but a few months later I did wet sand it down to a perfect glass finish.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...ule-build.html











.


That must be the difference, I’ll have to try cabinet grade MDF in the future. I’ve just been using the regular stuff from the big box store. I did notice for cutting dados the thickness of the MDF can vary up to 50 thousands even within a sheet.

Another question, on your fusion 8s you used butt joints and I think you used them on this subwoofer as well. Do you treat your joint at all before painting. I had read a large thread over on parts-express forum where a guy tested multiple treatment techniques (glue/water, cutting a groove and filling with body filler, no treatment, etc) and found the groove followed by body filler was the only technique that didn’t show the joint. Have you found this to be the case? If you look at your fusions built a couple years ago did the joint lines start to pop out?

I tend to do things the hard way so projects take me forever


-Trevor
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post #27 of 41 Old 05-14-2020, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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That must be the difference, I’ll have to try cabinet grade MDF in the future. I’ve just been using the regular stuff from the big box store. I did notice for cutting dados the thickness of the MDF can vary up to 50 thousands even within a sheet.

Another question, on your fusion 8s you used butt joints and I think you used them on this subwoofer as well. Do you treat your joint at all before painting. I had read a large thread over on parts-express forum where a guy tested multiple treatment techniques (glue/water, cutting a groove and filling with body filler, no treatment, etc) and found the groove followed by body filler was the only technique that didn’t show the joint. Have you found this to be the case? If you look at your fusions built a couple years ago did the joint lines start to pop out?

I tend to do things the hard way so projects take me forever


-Trevor
Yeah they are butt joints although the soon to be released flat pack has rabbits. In episode 34 I treat the edges with a water and glue mix. The cabinet grade MDF is so much nicer than the box store stuff. Much tigher and finer particles and routes so smooth. Use it once and you'll gladly pay more for it although I get it locally for the same price as lowes sells the low grade MDF.
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Yeah they are butt joints although the soon to be released flat pack has rabbits. In episode 34 I treat the edges with a water and glue mix. The cabinet grade MDF is so much nicer than the box store stuff. Much tigher and finer particles and routes so smooth. Use it once and you'll gladly pay more for it although I get it locally for the same price as lowes sells the low grade MDF.


Looking back at your fusion 8 towers from a few years ago are the joints showing at all? I appreciate your answers, I am just trying to figure out how much is enough before I put paint on the cabinets of my current project.
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post #29 of 41 Old 05-14-2020, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking back at your fusion 8 towers from a few years ago are the joints showing at all? I appreciate your answers, I am just trying to figure out how much is enough before I put paint on the cabinets of my current project.
I did have a slight line that was very hard to see. Honestly it looked line it was made that way as they line up with the baffles but you seriously have to be a few inches away to see it and it has to be pointed out. The Hammer doesn't have any line at all. It has a lot to do with humidity and the expansion and contraction of of the edges being different than the face of the panel.

I will say before I painted the primer my edges were perfectly level with the panel on both builds.

I need to update the Fusion build as I later went back and removed the orange peel.
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post #30 of 41 Old 05-22-2020, 12:31 AM
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OK soo its time for a little review on THE Hammer since I believe I am the first one with a finished build and setup.

So I've been contemplating for a long time whether to purchase a second Martin Logan Balanced Force sub as the one 210 just wasn't enough no matter how clean and tight it was.

I've been looking for advice on this forum and received some really good ones but generally advising to go large and multiple subs, which is fair enough as we all want the best bass however I felt I don't really need a commercial cinema at this point, I just wanted to start safe and relatively easy. I am a busy professional and don't have much spare time at the moment so I was looking for a relatively easy path with a ready made cut sheet and parts readily available and easy to order to Europe where I currently reside.

I started to watch @cdy2179 's channel on youtube and found that his design and explanations were the most straight forward and easiest to understand. Naturally I wanted to learn WinISD to design my own sub but the lack of time just wouldn't allow so I got excited when Steve got to design The Hammer. This was pretty much what I needed to quickly get into building my first DIY sub. He just made it very simple by providing a cut sheet and even detailed video build instructions.

So I got to it ordered the parts from Soundimports in the EU.

This is what I ordered:

Behringer 3000NX
MiniDSP 2x4 HD
Dayton Audio UM12-22 12" Ultimax subwoofer
Duratex paint
Cables and bits

The build process of the enclosure took me about a week to complete, I used clamps and extra strong glue to ensure rigidity and always allowed enough time for the glue to set (about a day after each step) as I didn't want anything to get lose causing vibrations or leaks.

One thing I need to mention is DO not cut the baffle holes until you receive your driver as the manufacturers baffle cutout numbers are incorrect on the website (at least they were on Soundimports) but luckily they were smaller so I could just enlarge the cutout when the woofer arrived.

For the paint job I decided to use a spray gun for the Duratex but it's very thick so I added approx 5% of water and it worked really well. Sprayed on 3 or 4 coats and that was it. It looked great. Next time I will sand more of the MDF surfaces along the joints and seal them more evenly as some joints are visible if you look hard but there are no leaks and can't be seen in the cinema whatsoever.

So all was ready to install the woofer and line the inside of the box with some insulation ( I do not use fiberglass as it is a breathing ported sub so I don't want nasty particles floating around in the room).

Set up.

I wasn't expecting much from a 12" DIY sub so I went in with low expectations.

Plugged it all in and it worked perfectly for the first time. Note I used a cable tester as well to ensure all connections were done well.

The first thing I noticed was that the Behringer needed to be cranked up to near max to allow for 75 db levels and I also had to boost about 5 db in the miniDSP. Later I settled on about 75% and + 5db in the miniDSP and sub level 0 in the AVR.

Raw response was pretty good but it all felt lose. I placed a filter at 17hz to protect the driver, used REW and the miniDSP to dial it all in and integrate with the mains then ran Anthem's ARC Genesis and also created a house curve to allow for a slight rise in response from about 70hz down to 20hz. I was able to EQ it in very nicely using the miniDSP.

I was hugely surprised by what I experienced once it was all set up, the response is tight and powerful, I don't listen at reference levels much but even at my normal listening levels at -15-20 db it sounds excellent. I was worried that it might not sound as tight and composed as the Martin Logan sub did but it not only does sounds as good but exceeds it in almost every way. The ML had to be crancked up high to get acceptable bass but The Hammer just provides that efficient effortless ULF response that I've been missing for a long time, and the great thing about it is that I don't need to crank up the volume sky high to experince it. Of coourse if I crank it gets even better. Mid bass is excellent as well the shutgun shots in John Wick 3 never sounded this good and the chest kick is there and nicely pronounced.
After watching Blade Runner 2049 I checked the walls for cracks as I heard a window next door complaining which I never heard before with the previous sub. It handled all I threw at it very well.
I was worried about music that it may not be as tight as the ML was and I am relieved to hear that it is not the case, while it is not quite as composed as the ML sub it's perfectly acceptable.

...and all of this at a fraction of the price of the ML is quite a bargain. Adding a second Hammer would be much less $$ as the electronics are already there. I could easily build three or four hammers on the price of one ML I had, its an absolute no brainer.

Also checked for power usage and I was rather surprised to find how efficient it is. The max it drew during my tests was 305watts and 4.5 amps.

Overall I am very satisfied with this sub and can only recommend to anyone looking to get into the DIY space with a first easy build. I need to stress though, thorough build and setup is crucial for it to work well, do your homework in that regard otherwise you may get disappointed.

Excellent job Steve well done! You may use my photos as reference if you like.





EPSON TW-9300 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, DIY Subs 18" 24hz tune and 12" 17hz tune Panasonic UB900, HTPC, etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post50298297
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