Please Lend Your Expertise on a DIY 6300 Cubic Foot Theater Build. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 14 Old 05-20-2020, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Please Lend Your Expertise on a DIY 6300 Cubic Foot Theater Build.

I am building a theater in my basement, which has rockwool on most walls and the ceiling, that will be covered by speaker cloth, and will have carpet tile on the concrete floor and riser. The left wall is partially exposed concrete, but at 3 different depths and rockwool on the middle section. I have a Yamaha 5.2.2 reciever, but want some sweet diy speakers all around. I am thinking 1299's for LCR, and maybe ht-12 for the Atmos and rear. I have no idea about the sub. I love super clean music, but will mostly use it as a theater. I want to spend 2k but 3 for a significant upgrade would be reasonable. I have 2 VR1s, and could in theory use them as surround or Atmos, since my ceiling is hollow joists with rockwool in them. Any advice would be appreciated!
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post #2 of 14 Old 05-20-2020, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raransburgh View Post
I am building a theater in my basement, which has rockwool on most walls and the ceiling, that will be covered by speaker cloth, and will have carpet tile on the concrete floor and riser. The left wall is partially exposed concrete, but at 3 different depths and rockwool on the middle section. I have a Yamaha 5.2.2 reciever, but want some sweet diy speakers all around. I am thinking 1299's for LCR, and maybe ht-12 for the Atmos and rear. I have no idea about the sub. I love super clean music, but will mostly use it as a theater. I want to spend 2k but 3 for a significant upgrade would be reasonable. I have 2 VR1s, and could in theory use them as surround or Atmos, since my ceiling is hollow joists with rockwool in them. Any advice would be appreciated!
It seems like you have most of it mapped out and you just need advice on subs.... how much space are you dedicating to subs?


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post #3 of 14 Old 05-20-2020, 07:54 PM
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And how much are you looking to spend? And what is your SPL expectation? And what do you plan to power the sub(s) with? And...

Your post conjures more questions than answers.
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post #4 of 14 Old 05-21-2020, 03:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I can use as much space as I want for subs if I don't put them in the front since my screen is most of the wall with about 20 inches free on each side and bottom. As for the mids and highs, I would like some feedback on the 1299s or better options, if the VR1's would be useful for Atmos or rear surrounds, and what a good option would be for Atmos or rears. As for the sub, I want to feel it and for it to get pretty low, but haven't listened to them knowing what the numbers were, so I would just be tossing out numbers. I don't need it to take my breath like some car stuff I have had, but just a good solid rumble. As noted in my original post, I would like to spend $2000 total for, including a sub amp, sub, mids and highs but would go up to $3000 for a solid upgrade. I could save some if my VR1s would do well for Atmos or rear surrounds with the LCR I choose. I am covering everything with speaker cloth walls so it can all be ugly. Thanks for the help!
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post #5 of 14 Old 05-21-2020, 10:19 AM
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In a room that big you'd be happier with 1899's, the 1299's still get rock-concert loud from 300hz up, they just don't have as much "feel it" bass as the 1899's do.

Big rooms are expensive, not sure if your subwoofer budget is high enough to get the level of bass you want.
You lose 10db in the first 10ft.
The 1899's would help off set that issue substantially, even so to get 15hz in that space you are probably looking at (at-least) 4 ported UM-18's and a pair of inuke 6kDSP's...
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post #6 of 14 Old 05-21-2020, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! While the room is very large, I am only using one side of it as a theater, and the 1899's won't fit next to my screen. Could I just put a sub in between my riser and front seats to get good sound there, since I am not concerned about the rest of the room sounding good?
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post #7 of 14 Old 05-21-2020, 02:45 PM
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Many people put subs in their risers or under their seats, or just behind them if they don't recline.

You'll just need DSP to set the delay for those subs to time-align with the fronts.
1.1ms per foot.
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post #8 of 14 Old 05-21-2020, 03:08 PM
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spl from subs isnt easy in large spaces. I can get 100db from towers 30hz and up(granted my expensive to me focals)...but 30hz and below where I want 120-130db is very freaking hard. I guess you will need at least two 18 in subs and probably more like 4.
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post #9 of 14 Old 05-21-2020, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks folks! Would a full Marty or two be good in between the riser and front seats? Would it sound bad if they were left and right of the listening position? I would have to scrap my build and go with a woven screen and a new wall to get the 1899's over 1299's, and I don't think I'm at that point since I haven't even used it yet. One iNuke NX6000 to push both subs?
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post #10 of 14 Old 05-21-2020, 04:41 PM
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Your room will determine the best position for your subs (unless like BTH, you have subs everywhere ).


Seems to me you have the cart before the horse however as, if I'm reading correctly, your room is not yet built. Leaving room for subwoofers at the 1/4 side wall marks front and back (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that measurement, I don't build dedicated rooms) should give you good options for subwoofer placement. Your proposed position in between the riser and front seats may work, it may not. No way to tell without measurements or maybe REW's Room Simulator.

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post #11 of 14 Old 05-23-2020, 04:06 PM
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NX6000D

Any ported design should work. There is nothing inherently special about the Full Marty.

1-25hz is for pipe organs, earthquake simulators and door slams.
25-40hz for rap/dubstep/carhead-bass.
40-300hz for dance/rock/metal/pop/country/drums/cat jumps/explosions/chest-kick.

90% of music bass is >30-300hz
90% of movies is >20-300hz
10-20hz is the remaining 9%
<10hz is the last 1%

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Originally Posted by raransburgh View Post
Would it sound bad if they were left and right of the listening position?
It might.
There will be an SPL gradient as you get closer to the subwoofer, you'll also be transitioning from the far-field to the near-field zone. You'll also have a phase-shift from left to right.
It will also depend on room-nulls.

Nobody said this was gonna be easy.

Some people have had success with DBA's behind their screen wall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bass_array
It doesn't solve the SPL equation, but it reduces the seat-to-seat variance without filling the room with subwoofers. Not sure if you have the space for it though.

Like most things it is a balance of compromises.
There is no such thing as the perfect room or perfect system or perfect driver.
However, some are substantially better than others; I mean an SI-24 is gonna beat the pants off a Walmart sub or BestBuy sub, or even an SVS sub... An Lab Gruppen PLM20k will have substantially higher output than a Parts-Express plate-amp or an iNuke. [and their price tags also reflect that unfortunately.]

For 30-300hz many have had success with B&C 21's or multiples-more PA-460's...
For <30hz it's hard to beat the SI-24, RF-19, HST-18, UM-18 for their given price-bracket etc...

The lower you port the box, the less mid-bass/chest-kick you'll have.
In simplified terms: the wattage is divided equally cross all frequencies, and so by covering more frequencies you'll have less power for any given frequency.

For the most part, bass is limited by displacement.

Which is a function of total-cone-area x total-excursion (or average playback, since almost nobody plays at full clipping/xmech all day long.)

Wattage causes excursion, it also causes heat.
Both heat and excursion cause distortion.
The way to reduce both is to add bigger cones / more cones.

1 18 can do things that 1 10 can't dream of,
and 8 18's can do things 1 24 can't dream of,
and 8 24's can do things 8 18's can't dream of.

You can always turn it down, but you can't always turn it up.

The NX6kD and UM-18 is "relatively" cheap, and they work well for their price bracket.
Hence why they are so popular... (and get constantly recommended.)
People tend to gravitate towards things that hold the best-value in general... or for a given-bracket.

Right now that's PA-460's and NX1kD's for 30-300hz mid-bass,
and NX6kD's and UM-18's for 1-30hz.

It used to be SI HT-18's and FI 18's, but things change based on availability/wait time/build quality etc.
Before the NX6kD and FP clones and miniDSP's, it used to be the EP4k's+DCX's.
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post #12 of 14 Old 05-23-2020, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks that helps a lot! It sounds like you are saying I won't really miss not getting loud under 30, and with the price of the PA-460's and NX1KD I would have room to add more if I need to, or add an um18 if I do find a want it lower? Is there a good flat pack or a good box design I could follow for the PA-460's?
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post #13 of 14 Old 05-26-2020, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raransburgh View Post
Thanks that helps a lot! It sounds like you are saying I won't really miss not getting loud under 30, and with the price of the PA-460's and NX1KD I would have room to add more if I need to, or add an um18 if I do find a want it lower? Is there a good flat pack or a good box design I could follow for the PA-460's?
Check out the VBSS thread.

The VBSS box design that supports 15HZ, 20HZ, and 31HZ tuning for the PA 460 with DSP settings. You can power two off of a NX1000D, but for a room you size I would get the NX3000D. The 3000 leaves more room to expand, up to 8 VBSS subs. The 20HZ tune would be a good trade off between rumbling low frequencies and chest thumping mid bass.
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post #14 of 14 Old Today, 10:54 AM
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Not to throw another idea into the equation; but, I’ve got a bigger room than you. And, I wasn’t really satisfied with my setup until I built a BOSS rider for each of my 3 seats (will be adding more seating later).

I have 4 THTs and Crowsons as well. It’s a lot of fun now. But before the Crowsons and BOSS - it was awful for anything below 30hz. Trust me, you want the capability of going under 30hz. Don’t leave sub 30 on the table. You’ll regret it and will have to either start over or build more.

Subs are critical to the experience. If you’ve never experienced a fully capable theater. Find one close to you and someone willing to let another person in during this crazy time.


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