Beyma TPL150H/AE TD12M/Beyma 158P80ND Active - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Beyma TPL150H/AE TD12M/Beyma 158P80ND Active

This project started almost 2 years ago, initially as this, but as time went by, it evolved to this final iteration.
Unfortunately, lots of unpredictable factors were in the way, but fortunately, i've learned not to rush things, and look at this from a long term perspective, so i'm hopeful in the long term it was for the best.

The final project was inspired by Javs fenomenal Javs' Modular Tower WMTW - 15FH520 / Beyma 12P80ND-V2 / TPL-150H project:



The final speaker will be a 3 way speaker, composed of:
- Beyma 15p80nd: X < 350Hz
- AE TD12M: 350 < X < 1500Hz
- Beyma TPL-150H: 1500Hz < X < 20000Hz

(Crossover points will be dictated by real measures, but should be around those values).

Crossover will be Active,using a Monacor DSM-48LAN.
I'll start with the TPL-150H and the AE TD12M, and when funds allow, will add the Beyma 15p80ND.

For amplification, i'll start with budget amplifiers, the TPL will be driven by a Parasound Zamp V3 ([email protected]), which has variable gain controls that i'm hoping will help to avoid any potential hiss, and the AE TD12M by a Crown xli 800.

While i'm waiting to get the boxes, i'm trying to plan everything i will need to connect all components, namely AV (NAD T758V3) -> DSP -> Amps.

The following diagram describes how all components will be connected, showing the real hardware from each component (pre-outs, inputs, etc):



Cables will be made with Sommercable SC-Galileo 238 Plus, for RCA plugs, Hicon HI-CM03-NTL, and for XLR plugs, XLR Male NC3MXX and XLR Female NC3FXX

I would like to ask your help, please have a look at the connections, is everything correct or am i missing anything?
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post #2 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 09:31 AM
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Should work.
You'll have to reduce the output db's on the tweeter substantially to make everything match. -48db should be plenty (I think).
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post #3 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Than you for your response.

The TD12M is [email protected], and the TPL [email protected], so it i assume around 6db should work.
Nevertheless, i will be measuring these on the outside, so this will be dictated by measurements.
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post #4 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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One of the things that i'm worried with, are the tweeter levels.
Even using a 45W amplifier with gain controls, if someone messes with the controls, and the AV volume control, it can achieve dangerous levels.

Using this calculator, it would achieve near 115db at 2m, which could hurt someone.

I'm considering using these In-Line attenuators.
But i'm not sure where to place them? Would they work between the DSP OUT and the Power amp IN, as in this image?
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post #5 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 12:10 PM
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It might waste a watt or two, but you could also use a resistor in series with the tweeter, which might also simplify gain structure issues.
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post #6 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Assuming the atenuador would work the same way, i would prefer to go through that route, its not only easier, but more flexible.

Last edited by neo_2009; 05-21-2020 at 03:40 PM.
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post #7 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 01:40 PM
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Awesome!

I have attenuators on my DSP output to tame some hiss and DSP noise floor.

I also set my AVR as such that 0mv is a couple db under reference, so you could do that too.

My sweet spot is 1200hz crossover with 48db slopes, it sounds awesome, I tried just about every other crossover slope but keep coming back to that one. It's steep enough that the top doesn't break a sweat and low enough that the mid is definitely not beaming.


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post #8 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo_2009 View Post
The TD12M is [email protected], and the TPL [email protected], so it i assume around 6db should work.
Nevertheless, i will be measuring these on the outside, so this will be dictated by measurements.
You'll also need to factor in the gains of the various amps used to set levels correctly.
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post #9 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
I also set my AVR as such that 0mv is a couple db under reference, so you could do that too.
My sweet spot is 1200hz crossover with 48db slopes ...
Thank you very much for your feedback.
Could you please clarify how are you doing this on your AVR?
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post #10 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post
You'll also need to factor in the gains of the various amps used to set levels correctly.
Thank you for the clarification, it makes sense.
As mentioned, i will perform proper measures outside, and use them to decide which values to use.
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post #11 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by neo_2009 View Post
Thank you very much for your feedback.
Could you please clarify how are you doing this on your AVR?
Combinations of the actual speaker line levels set in the AVR, and also the DSP. MiniDSP defaults to mute if it loses settings too.

I dont have a big fat gain knob on the front of any of my power amps, I use Emotiva amps, so its literally impossible for me to drive my tweeter over about -3db from reference peaks. I personally never listen at ful reference so having it always at -3 was good for me. I am a wierd person in the fact that I prefer to just go right to -0Mv when watching something so its fool proof to reach a known preferred level.

I dont see how if you know even the slightest what you were doing you would send any volume over reference to your tweeter anyway. That really should be part of the setup process IMO when you are doing your gain matching.
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post #12 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 03:13 PM
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One tip with the TPL.

When you take the backing plate off, LEAVE the felt strip glued to the back of the TPL. It keeps the response smoother than when you remove it. It seems crazy but it took me years to figure out that one quirk.
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post #13 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Combinations of the actual speaker line levels set in the AVR, and also the DSP. MiniDSP defaults to mute if it loses settings too.
The Monacor is built by AllDSP, and the Software is really interesting.

It allows to apply Gains and a Limiter in both INPUT and OUTPUT, so assuming the software behaves well, it should allow to configure the system gain levels properly:


Nevertheless, i will feel more comfortable by adding a physical attenuator, in case of something crashes at the software level
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post #14 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by neo_2009 View Post
The Monacor is built by AllDSP, and the Software is really interesting.

It allows to apply Gains and a Limiter in both INPUT and OUTPUT, so assuming the software behaves well, it should allow to configure the system gain levels properly:


Nevertheless, i will feel more comfortable by adding a physical attenuator, in case of something crashes at the software level
An attentuator is not going to change your power amps ability to drive an input though. It does not reduce the power of your power amp. At the end of the day you are still effectively usung your dsp or processor to set the overall levels. Even though I have a 10db attenuator on my tweeter, I could still turn knobs and set things so my tweeter gets 80w without any issues at all.

I only see an attenuator as useful to reduce the noise floor of your dsp.

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post #15 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I see, thank you for the feedback.

The Zamp actually has gain knobs, so i assume that by using those, and the DSP Gain and Limiter functions, it should be possible to prevent any potential problem?


Or maybe use an resistor in series, as mentioned above, just in case
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post #16 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by neo_2009 View Post
I see, thank you for the feedback.

The Zamp actually has gain knobs, so i assume that by using those, and the DSP Gain and Limiter functions, it should be possible to prevent any potential problem?


Or maybe use an resistor in series, as mentioned above, just in case
I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Put a cap to protect the tweeter if you are really worried about sending too much power to tweeter, this will stop it getting damaged. but again, a resistor will not stop max power being sent to a tweeter, it will only reduce it in relation to other drivers.

Just because a tweeter is sensitive it doesnt mean you are going to send 115db to it with any more easy than you could to another driver. Just set your levels in the DSP and your amp and your max volume level will be whatever you want.
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post #17 of 19 Old 05-21-2020, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
...but again, a resistor will not stop max power being sent to a tweeter, it will only reduce it in relation to other drivers.

Whatever the tweeter's Re is, if a resistor of equal value is put in series with it, the amp output voltage applied to it will be cut in half, and the power will be reduced by 4X.
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post #18 of 19 Old 05-23-2020, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by neo_2009 View Post
The TD12M is [email protected], and the TPL [email protected], so it i assume around 6db should work.
More.

You are stepping down from XLR voltage to RCA voltage; you could easily clip the input stage of that amplifier if you aren't careful.

But well before that point, you'd be running for the exit...

The cool thing with all-active is that you can adjust the timing of every driver,
so you don't have to worry (as much) about the physical-alignment.
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post #19 of 19 Old Yesterday, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
It might waste a watt or two, but you could also use a resistor in series with the tweeter, which might also simplify gain structure issues.

Don't forget a Raychem RXE-075 to protect the tweeter.
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