which sub should i build? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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which sub should i build?

so i modeled three subs a UM-12, SQL-15 and LaVoce SAN214.50
the UM-12(blue) is in 3.5ft^3 box, the SQL-15(green) and the LoVace(red) are in 5ft^3, all tuned to 18Hz and getting their maximum RMS power handling


the Air velocity


the UM-12 pros: costs only $200
good performance from only 3.5 cubes
digs low for the size
4 ohms so getting watts is easy

cons: limited dynamically

the SQL-15 pros : above reference output for most of the FR
costs $300
good comprise between "midbass" output and deep bass output
4 ohms so getting watts is easy

cons: needs a bigger box than the UM-12
nothing major really

the LaVoce pros: 21" yo
insane midbass output and is extremely sensitive in that region

cons : costs $480 so 46% more than the SQL-15 and 82% more than the UM-12
needs 1700 watts to have close output in deepbass to the SQL-15.
here its SPL at 1000W compared to the SQL-15

needs more costly amp.


so far im leaning towards the SQL-15
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post #2 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 07:56 AM
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Seems you have all the info you need to make a decision. My vote is LaVoce SAN214.50
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post #3 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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My vote is LaVoce SAN214.50
why?
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post #4 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 08:08 AM
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Why not? Very respectable low-end and insane midbass...just as you described in your model.

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post #5 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Why not? Very respectable low-end and insane midbass...just as you described in your model.
still too expensive and requires more powerful amp, also im not sure i would ever listen that loud.
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post #6 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 08:24 AM
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Then I have to ask, why is that one of your options

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post #7 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Then I have to ask, why is that one of your options
21" bruh
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post #8 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 08:40 AM
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21" bruh
Then buy it and don't look back

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post #9 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Then buy it and don't look back

Does building 4-3 subs change your recommendation?


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post #10 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 09:11 AM
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Does building 4-3 subs change your recommendation?


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To use your own words
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21" bruh


4 subs will smooth things out though.

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post #11 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 10:58 AM
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The um is a disaster waiting to happen - although rather inexpensive the most common post from UM owners here on avs is, How do I get more midbass? This route will lead you to another amp and another midbass setup (VBSS?).
On the good side you will have four subs (2-2) and who knows how many amps and then you may be satisfied.

The Si looks like an okay safe choice for ...... an average setup I guess, but you may still have the urge to upgrade.

And the 21s will have plenty of everything although the initial cost will be high. The 21s are a great choice and you may not have to upgrade for a while, satisfied.
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post #12 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 11:10 AM
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The UM is fine. I have LaVoce 214.50's I'm testing out right now and I had UM18's and guess what -the midbass on UM18's was fine. This is mostly an AVSForum myth IMO, once eq'd and calibrated properly. It is true that the LaVoce has more midbass than you will know what to do with, but you'll be eq'ing that down with more than one filter.

That said, the Lavoce needs more than a 5cuft box. I have my test box at 6cuft @ ~16hz and it wants more. Doable with DSP.

Personally I'd go with the LaVoce, since that's what I'm doing now and IMO it's more comparable to a UM18 than anything else in your list. I do like the higher sensitivity drivers, but they need more help on the bottom, significant eq, or both.

Second is a slew of the new stereo integrity units, no data on them yet but they look good and AKAIK most of their products seem spot on. Great small box woofer.

UM12 last since it's "only" a 12" driver thus are pretty limited overall IMO.
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post #13 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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The um is a disaster waiting to happen - although rather inexpensive the most common post from UM owners here on avs is, How do I get more midbass? This route will lead you to another amp and another midbass setup (VBSS?).
On the good side you will have four subs (2-2) and who knows how many amps and then you may be satisfied.

The Si looks like an okay safe choice for ...... an average setup I guess, but you may still have the urge to upgrade.

And the 21s will have plenty of everything although the initial cost will be high. The 21s are a great choice and you may not have to upgrade for a while, satisfied.

Why though? Let’s assume I built the 3-4 SI subs, that will have more than 120db of midbass output why would I need more than that? Also I’m don’t listen very loud, most of the time I’m at -15db and lower.


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post #14 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 12:54 PM
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Why though? Let’s assume I built the 3-4 SI subs, that will have more than 120db of midbass output why would I need more than that? Also I’m don’t listen very loud, most of the time I’m at -15db and lower.


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You said it right, the 3-4 SIs look pretty good for your setup and listening habits. I don’t disagree. The 21s are more for going the extra mile (which we all do at some point) so this route would keep you satisfied longer UNTIL you need more.
Four SIs vs two two 21s would be a hard choice. I’m a big fan of midbass boxes up front behind my screen and just about anything in the back of the room so I would pick the 21s and put them up front just for that reason alone. If I had a living room / tv type room the four SIs would be my pick, and if your mains are not capable of an upgraded setup then that comes into play as well.
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post #15 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 02:02 PM
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If you want to keep the enclosure size down you can just put SI SQL-15 in a smaller 4cu.ft. net enclosure with very little output lose on the very low-end, with the same port tuning hz.
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post #16 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 02:56 PM
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Why though? Let’s assume I built the 3-4 SI subs, that will have more than 120db of midbass output why would I need more than that?
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Will the subs be colocated though? I could be wrong, but winisd doesn't calculate spl of subs in different locations. Again, I could be wrong.

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If you want to keep the enclosure size down you can just put SI SQL-15 in a smaller 4cu.ft. net enclosure with very little output lose on the very low-end, with the same port tuning hz.

That would be good, thanks.


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post #18 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Will the subs be colocated though? I could be wrong, but winisd doesn't calculate spl of subs in different locations. Again, I could be wrong.

No. one in each corner.


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post #19 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 03:47 PM
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No. one in each corner.


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Let’s assume I built the 3-4 SI subs, that will have more than 120db of midbass output
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That may not be true in that case.

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I would go with the biggest woofer that you can fit in your space. I went from 1 Dayton Audio 15 with a plate amp to 1 SI 18. Ended up building another 18. Downsized homes, now I have 1 DS115 18. My suggestion is go with the LaVoce 21, get a pro amp and be done with it. You can always turn down the bass. That 12 inch sub will probably not pressurize your room very well. My .02 cents.
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post #21 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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That may not be true in that case.

How much gain I should expect then from adding three subs? I’m mostly doing it to deal with room modes.


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post #22 of 24 Old 05-25-2020, 06:02 PM
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How much gain I should expect then from adding three subs? I’m mostly doing it to deal with room modes.


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You will gain a smoother frequency response across all seats

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post #23 of 24 Old 05-26-2020, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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what style of bracing should i go with? window bracing or this style in the marty calculator

and how much is needed?
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post #24 of 24 Old 05-26-2020, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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which sub should i build?

Also should I line the sub with insulation like fiber glass or rockwool? And can I just use the acoustic foam?


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