At wits end ... My Devastator story and needed help! - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 35Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
dvdfantastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpdpdp View Post
seems I used an old power cable from a refrigerator or appliance and just wired the ground to the chassis of the receiver. I did scuff the paint a tiny bit to get to bare metal. Then I plugged it into the power strip I was using for everything and viola no more hum for me. I think I pulled one or both of the spades on the plug so I had no power going through it.
Thanks @dpdpdp . That is super helpful to say the least. Do you by any chance have a picture of how you terminated the other end? That would help me figure it out without risking an electric hazard. Thanks again!
dvdfantastic is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
dvdfantastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewp29 View Post
Which MiniDSP did you order? IMHO, the only one you should be ordering at this point is the 2x4HD. It is obvious to me (though people will argue til they could be part of the Blue Man Group), that you do not have enough voltage from your Yamaha sub out RCA. Many people have experienced this, myself included. Pro gear runs at +4dBV, and consumer gear runs at -10dBm. These are two different scales and cannot be equated directly, which is what I feel some people misunderstand.

The Crown 0.775V setting does make a difference, but it is DEFINITELY not adequate for the lack of voltage output from your Yamaha. You will also notice that the hum is louder on the 0.775V setting than the 1.4V. I run an XLS 1502, and for awhile it was my subwoofer amplifier. I needed an ART Cleanbox Pro to get my input signal high enough to drive the Crown into the clipping zone. I ran my sub trim all the way up on my Marantz (without the CB Pro) and barely saw the first light on the Crown. I was not running a high pass filter though, so I would not recommend the CB Pro for your situation. Going back to the hum - I initially set the Crown on the 0.775V and there was noticeable hum. Setting it to 1.4V and turning up the Cleanbox to compensate did not produce the same level of hum, and I was hitting the clip indicator at the same volume level on the AVR while playing the same demo scenes. I can't tell you why on that one - compensation with the CB Pro should return the same hum level, but it didn't. In order to get approximately the same hum, the CB Pro needed to be up quite a bit more, and I hit the clip light at a much lower AVR volume level. Just my experience.

I do not have experience with the standard MiniDSP 2x4, but I have dealt with the Balanced and 2x4HD. The Balanced output voltage is 'probably' adequate for driving the Crown. I say 'probably' because I still feel you may need more to drive the Crown to 'tickling' the clip indicator. The 2x4HD however, has voltage output in spades. When I switched from the Crown XLS 1502 to a QSC PLX 3002, I still needed the Cleanbox in the signal chain. I now have a 2x4HD. I had to bump the gain up on the HD to get the same output as the CB Pro (4.5dB on the input, 4.5dB on the output. +9dB total), but there is PLENTY left in the tank if I needed more voltage to the sub amp.

I feel I must also add that I usually run my amp attenuation knobs (usually labeled 'gain', a misnomer) at about 25% from full (at 75%). This is because I like to have some knob control when listening to music. If I feel a particular track could use some reinforcement, I use the amp knobs to adjust to taste. It's my listening session, I don't really care how the 'mixing professional' wanted it to sound - I know how I want it to sound and what makes me happy.


Edit: Had to clarify where I run my amp knobs at - I run them at 75% (at about the 3'oclock position).
Thanks for the detailed explanation @drewp29 . I did order the minidsp 2x4HD. Does that mean that I would not require CB Pro to drive sub RCA output higher and minidsp should be able to take care of that? Please advise.

Last edited by dvdfantastic; 05-26-2020 at 10:54 AM.
dvdfantastic is offline  
post #63 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 11:19 AM
Senior Member
 
drewp29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 272
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdfantastic View Post
Thanks for the detailed explanation @drewp29 . I did order the minidsp 2x4HD. Does that mean that I would not require CB Pro to drive sub RCA output higher and minidsp should be able to take care of that? Please advise.

You should be fine with the 2x4HD. You'll need to adjust the gain up in the MiniDSP program, but it should have no issues outputting enough voltage to drive the Crown.


Edit: I initially set my gains up as +12dB overall (split between input and output gain), and it sent my amps into clipping at a lot lower AVR volume level. Like 6-8 volume steps lower. I lowered it to +9dB overall gain and it seemed like a happy median. I actually dialed back the knobs on my amplifier a couple clicks (used to have it at +28dB gain on amp knob, now I keep it at +26dB gain), so I could probably lower it even a little more if I needed. Honestly, if I maxed out the amplifier knobs, I could probably get away with no gain in the MiniDSP, or possible only 2-3dB to get the same output from the amp at the volume levels I am used to.

Last edited by drewp29; 05-26-2020 at 11:26 AM.
drewp29 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #64 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
dvdfantastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewp29 View Post
You should be fine with the 2x4HD. You'll need to adjust the gain up in the MiniDSP program, but it should have no issues outputting enough voltage to drive the Crown.


Edit: I initially set my gains up as +12dB overall (split between input and output gain), and it sent my amps into clipping at a lot lower AVR volume level. Like 6-8 volume steps lower. I lowered it to +9dB overall gain and it seemed like a happy median. I actually dialed back the knobs on my amplifier a couple clicks (used to have it at +28dB gain on amp knob, now I keep it at +26dB gain), so I could probably lower it even a little more if I needed. Honestly, if I maxed out the amplifier knobs, I could probably get away with no gain in the MiniDSP, or possible only 2-3dB to get the same output from the amp at the volume levels I am used to.
That gives me hope @drewp29 . Thanks a lot and I look forward to your continued help once I get the minidsp delivered.
drewp29 likes this.
dvdfantastic is offline  
post #65 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 12:21 PM
Senior Member
 
s2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked: 108
I read the topic and immediately thought of the track on pirates of the Caribbean.

Check out at wits end soundtrack. Its probably one of my favorite tracks for the movie series.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[I]Video: Sony XBR-75X850C 75 inch 4k - Samsung 55inch 4k -58 PANASONIC PZ850u plasma
4k-Blu Ray: Sony UBP x800 - PS3 - oppo 103 Amp and power : Pioneer elite SC - 27 - Monster Power AVS 2000 Reference - DT BP 30s- 10s - citation 5.1
Speakers and Sub : Kef Model reference 1 - DT CLR 2000 - DT UIW BP/A in ceiling rears - DT BPX Rears - JTR Captivator 118HT
s2000 is online now  
post #66 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
dvdfantastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2000 View Post
I read the topic and immediately thought of the track on pirates of the Caribbean.

Check out at wits end soundtrack. Its probably one of my favorite tracks for the movie series.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
hahaha, that is the movie that got me into the whole HT scene. There is nothing better than the first 2 installments of the franchise. Its been a crazy work day and I have not been able to step into my HT to start implementing all that's suggested so far. Hopefully will get to it in a couple of hours.
dvdfantastic is offline  
post #67 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
dvdfantastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Update:

Finally got to do some testing. Channel 1 gain knob on Crown set to max;

1) Crown xls 2502 connected to DEV with RCA in channel 1 input and nothing else connected - Silent, no hum

2) Crown connected to DEV with RCA connected to channel 1 input and subwoofer output on Yamaha RX A2000 with no power connected to Yamaha - Slight humming noise.

3) Crown connected to DEV with RCA connected to both crown and Yamaha AND HDMI connected from PS3 to Yamaha with Yamaha not connected to power - Slight humming noise

4) Crown connected to DEV with RCA connected to both crown and Yamaha AND HDMI connected from PS3 to Yamaha WITH Yamaha connected to power but power in standby - Elevated humming noise

5) Crown connected to DEV with RCA connected to both crown and Yamaha AND HDMI connected from PS3 to Yamaha WITH Yamaha connected to power with power on - Elevated humming noise

6) All remaining same as in #5 AND HDMI from receiver to projector connected to output one WITH projector power cable connected to outlet- High humming noise

7) 6) All remaining same as in #6 AND HDMI from receiver to projector connected to output one WITH projector power cable Disconnected from outlet- humming noise back to the same level as in #5

I am just baffled at what to do. Any suggestions?
dvdfantastic is offline  
post #68 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 07:27 PM
Advanced Member
 
Chris Popovich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 827
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 401 Post(s)
Liked: 374
Subwoofers are way more important than PS3's. Or TV's. Music only system time!

You've been given good advice for solving ground loop issues. Try that stuff first.

Edit: you didn't try the yamaha powered but the hdmi unconnected.

Last edited by Chris Popovich; 05-26-2020 at 07:32 PM.
Chris Popovich is online now  
post #69 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
dvdfantastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Is there an HDMI device connected to the Yamaha when it is unplugged from the wall and still humming? HDMI has a ground and can cause loops if the HDMI device is also grounded. Unplug all the HDMI devices to see if the hum stops. If it does stop reintroduce HDMI devices one at a time. You can get optical HDMI cables if it is an HDMI device causing the issue, but they are not the most cost effective solution.

I have around 5 devices in my current setup, any of which can cause a ground loop. Pay attention to things that use three prong outlets. Current can flow between those devices, usually that is not a problem until you introduce a grounded power amp.

It seems like HDMI from the receiver to projector adds to the humming noise when plugged in especially when the projector is plugged in the outlet as well. If projector is unplugged, humming noise goes done quite a bit. What can I do to resolve this. Will adding a Jensen isomax will help?
dvdfantastic is offline  
post #70 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
dvdfantastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 40
On sub settings I upped the level to +10 db. Noticed that under Parametric EQ section, Yamaha has the sub at :

Band #1
Gain: 0.0db
Frequency: 31.3Hz
Q: 1.000

Do I need to change that in any way?

In addition, I set the sub level at +10db, removed HPF, set crown amp in bridge mode and senstivity set to .775, I am still getting just one indicator light at the amp. I am lost here....

Last edited by dvdfantastic; 05-26-2020 at 07:48 PM.
dvdfantastic is offline  
post #71 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
dvdfantastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Popovich View Post
Subwoofers are way more important than PS3's. Or TV's. Music only system time!

You've been given good advice for solving ground loop issues. Try that stuff first.

Edit: you didn't try the yamaha powered but the hdmi unconnected.
Tried that scenario just now and humming is there but not as high as when HDMI from projector to receiver is connected. Any suggestions as to how to solve this problem?
dvdfantastic is offline  
post #72 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 07:48 PM
Advanced Member
 
Chris Popovich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 827
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 401 Post(s)
Liked: 374
To solve the ground loop problem? or the gain problem?

Ground loop, try an isolator first. "cheater plug". See if it helps.

Gain: might just need a cleanbox if the Yamaha doesn't want to output enough signal.

In the mean time, that 31hz eq gain... crank it up, see what happens. Keep Q low, 1 or less than 1 is a broad rise.

Chris
Chris Popovich is online now  
post #73 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
dvdfantastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Popovich View Post
To solve the ground loop problem? or the gain problem?

Ground loop, try an isolator first. "cheater plug". See if it helps.

Gain: might just need a cleanbox if the Yamaha doesn't want to output enough signal.

In the mean time, that 31hz eq gain... crank it up, see what happens. Keep Q low, 1 or less than 1 is a broad rise.

Chris
In addition, I set the sub level at +10db, removed HPF, set crown amp in bridge mode and senstivity set to .775, I am still getting just one indicator light at the amp. I am lost here....
dvdfantastic is offline  
post #74 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 07:52 PM
Senior Member
 
Audiophile75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: The middle of Minnesota
Posts: 405
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked: 279
Do you have all your equipment plugged into the same circuit?
I would try — get a power strip and plug ALL equipment into the one power strip including your projector even if that means running an extension cord. Once you know they are all on the same circuit you should no longer have a POWER GROUND LOOP. If the noise is still there then disconnect interconnects one at a time, change any problem cables found. I would also add a ground wire from your amp to your AVR.
Audiophile75 is online now  
post #75 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 07:55 PM
Advanced Member
 
Chris Popovich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 827
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 401 Post(s)
Liked: 374
Nah, it just means you need a cleanbox for that yamaha for whatever reason. Some AVR's output lame sub signals.

Order up one of those, they're cheap, or a minidsp 2x4HD can definitely drive a 2502 to clipping no problem(done it personally) and is powerful eq capability.

Order those parts, concentrate on your hum problem for now.

The dev will chew up your old 10" sub and spit it out. It's a lot of output. It's really not a concern. You'll be displacing several times more air. Once it gets set up right you'll laugh at your concerns....

Chris
Chris Popovich is online now  
post #76 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 07:58 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,104
Mentioned: 241 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1373 Post(s)
Liked: 1297
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdfantastic View Post
Tried that scenario just now and humming is there but not as high as when HDMI from projector to receiver is connected. Any suggestions as to how to solve this problem?
How many prongs are on that projector cord? Current is probably flowing from the projectors ground over the HDMI, through the receiver and then over the RCA cable ground to the XLS. In this scenario a wire would need to be bound to projector (hopefully it has a grounding terminal) and then bound to the XLS. The trickle current should mostly go over the wire vs the HDMI and RCA cables due to them having a higher impedance.

This is the way...
Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dual Mini Devastator Build
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | CTS 2000 | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators
Red Five is online now  
post #77 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
dvdfantastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
How many prongs are on that projector cord? Current is probably flowing from the projectors ground over the HDMI, through the receiver and then over the RCA cable ground to the XLS. In this scenario a wire would need to be bound to projector (hopefully it has a grounding terminal) and then bound to the XLS. The trickle current should mostly go over the wire vs the HDMI and RCA cables due to them having a higher impedance.
Hi John, projector has a 3 prong power cable. Projector is on its own circuit and rest of the AVR equipment is on its own circuit. Do I need to hire an electrician to fix this ground loop issue? Its just driving me nuts.

Last edited by dvdfantastic; 05-26-2020 at 08:16 PM.
dvdfantastic is offline  
post #78 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
dvdfantastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Popovich View Post
Nah, it just means you need a cleanbox for that yamaha for whatever reason. Some AVR's output lame sub signals.

Order up one of those, they're cheap, or a minidsp 2x4HD can definitely drive a 2502 to clipping no problem(done it personally) and is powerful eq capability.

Order those parts, concentrate on your hum problem for now.

The dev will chew up your old 10" sub and spit it out. It's a lot of output. It's really not a concern. You'll be displacing several times more air. Once it gets set up right you'll laugh at your concerns....

Chris
I do have the minidsp on order and should receive it by Monday. I am guessing that I would not need a Clearbox in that case, correct? Should I hire an electrician to fix this ground loop issue? I am not sure what to do.
dvdfantastic is offline  
post #79 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 08:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,104
Mentioned: 241 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1373 Post(s)
Liked: 1297
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdfantastic View Post
Hi John, projector has a 3 prong power cable. Projector is on its own circuit and rest of the AVR equipment is on its own circuit.
Circuits do not matter with ground current from my experience, that is your main culprit with the projector. If you want to fire it up right away, grounding the projector and the amp together should lower the noise floor. If you can wait for the MiniDSP that very well could fix your issue. It would very likely drop the ground somewhere between the input and outputs. I cannot find a picture of the power supply that comes with the DSP. It would more than likely break the ground path on the RCA side which fixes your humming issue if it uses a two prong power supply.

This is the way...
Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dual Mini Devastator Build
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | CTS 2000 | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators

Last edited by Red Five; 05-26-2020 at 08:35 PM.
Red Five is online now  
post #80 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
dvdfantastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Circuits do not matter with ground current from my experience, that is your main culprit with the projector. If you want to fire it up right away, grounding the projector and the amp together should lower the noise floor. If you can wait for the MiniDSP that very well could fix your issue. It would very likely drop the ground somewhere between the input and outputs. I cannot find a picture of the power supply that comes with the DSP. It would more than likely break the ground path on the RCA side which fixes your humming issue.
Ok, in that case I will wait for the minidsp to come in. Will that also eliminate the need for CleanBox as well? I was looking at https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...or_stereo.html Do you think this will be of any help?
I think minidsp has a prong power adapter ( https://www.amazon.com/miniDSP-2x4-R.../dp/B01N4GDXLU) Will this be helpful to break ground loop?

Last edited by dvdfantastic; 05-26-2020 at 08:41 PM.
dvdfantastic is offline  
post #81 of 146 Old 05-26-2020, 08:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,104
Mentioned: 241 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1373 Post(s)
Liked: 1297
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdfantastic View Post
Ok, in that case I will wait for the minidsp to come in. Will that also eliminate the need for CleanBox as well? I was looking at https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...or_stereo.html Do you think this will be of any help?
Yes, you might not need the clean box either. The isolator in the link is nice but very expensive.

I would go with this cheaper one first - https://www.amazon.com/InstallGear-G.../dp/B077Y5DLBB

One of the local guys I trust has large low tuned boxes (think 750 liters and tuned closed to signal digits) based in his testing he was not getting low frequency roll off. For $9 why not?

I used the Aphex 124As for level matching and actually lowering the signal 6db to the amp. I like the amp sensitivity opened up on the front knobs. I can also see if I am clipping my input signal before the amp with them...

This is the way...
Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Dual Mini Devastator Build
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | CTS 2000 | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators
Red Five is online now  
post #82 of 146 Old 05-27-2020, 06:14 AM
Member
 
Mandroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Polk City, Iowa
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
if you haven't got the devastator working yet and are sure that it is well constructed, you may wish to try a few things:

1. turn off all dsp in the crown amp for now (from what you are describing, you may have mixed up the high pass with the low pass and are filtering out all your bass)
2. set input sensitivity on the amp to 0.775v.
3. if using bridge mode, carefully inspect your connectors to ensure that +1 on your speakon ultimately goes to positive on your driver and +2 goes to the negative
4. make sure you are connected into channel 1 on your crown
5. make sure the gain on channel 1 is turned all the up (clockwise)

6. turn off YPAO and any other bass eq
7. set mains to small and crossover point to 80hz or 100hz
8. set subwoofer trim to +0 (make sure your speaker trims are also close to zero)

play some music that has some bass in it. turn the volume on your AVR up and the bass should knock your house down.

the recommendation to get a minidsp is good so you can put a protective high pass at 20Hz or so. it will also help with EQ if your AVR doesn't have full EQ capability.

hope that helps!
If you haven't performed all of the steps that @LTD02 recommended here, you are wasting your time with any other diagnostic efforts.

A cleanbox for a Crown XLS2 is pointless. It has an unbalanced RCA input, and takes less voltage to drive than many consumer hifi amps.

Something is faulty, wired improperly, or not configured properly. Far more likely the latter of the three.
kmerhar likes this.
Mandroid is offline  
post #83 of 146 Old 05-27-2020, 06:40 AM
Advanced Member
 
Chris Popovich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 827
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 401 Post(s)
Liked: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandroid View Post
A cleanbox for a Crown XLS2 is pointless. It has an unbalanced RCA input, and takes less voltage to drive than many consumer hifi amps.

Something is faulty, wired improperly, or not configured properly. Far more likely the latter of the three.
I mostly agree with you, except some AVR's have pitifully weak sub outputs and also don't have the option of adjusting L&R down from their setpoint. I have a sony like that in the garage, sub out is very weak. I can adjust center and surround levels but not L&R... super lame.

In a different system I have no issues driving crowns to clipping using the Denon, which is probably 15 years old. An old Onkyo I had for a short period of time had the worst sub out in the universe, normal plate amp subs (with the ridiculous gain) were usually near maxed to get anything out of them...
Chris Popovich is online now  
post #84 of 146 Old 05-27-2020, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
dvdfantastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandroid View Post
If you haven't performed all of the steps that @LTD02 recommended here, you are wasting your time with any other diagnostic efforts.

A cleanbox for a Crown XLS2 is pointless. It has an unbalanced RCA input, and takes less voltage to drive than many consumer hifi amps.

Something is faulty, wired improperly, or not configured properly. Far more likely the latter of the three.
I have done all that was recommended by @LTD02 and still no dice on the output. All dsp is off, input sensitivity is set to .775v (this increases humming noise), cable is fine, connected to channel 1, gain at full throttle on crown, all speakers set to small, I even set sub trim to +10db but I still get only 1 light on the level indicator on the crown. And that hum .... I tell you, its driving me insane.
dvdfantastic is offline  
post #85 of 146 Old 05-27-2020, 06:56 AM
Senior Member
 
Falonious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: West MI
Posts: 276
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 136
dvdfantastic,
Is there anyone close to you that knows anything about this stuff? Maybe one of us here? Another set of eyes/ears/hands might help at this point.
Online help is ok but being inroom is much better.

All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.
T. E. Lawrence
.
Falonious is offline  
post #86 of 146 Old 05-27-2020, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
dvdfantastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falonious View Post
dvdfantastic,
Is there anyone close to you that knows anything about this stuff? Maybe one of us here? Another set of eyes/ears/hands might help at this point.
Online help is ok but being inroom is much better.
It would be great to have a fellow AVS'er take a stab at this thing. I am in NJ and not sure if anyone from the forum is nearby.
dvdfantastic is offline  
post #87 of 146 Old 05-27-2020, 08:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
johnson636's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Somewhere in the Outer Rim
Posts: 3,550
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1765 Post(s)
Liked: 1294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Popovich View Post
I mostly agree with you, except some AVR's have pitifully weak sub outputs and also don't have the option of adjusting L&R down from their setpoint. I have a sony like that in the garage, sub out is very weak. I can adjust center and surround levels but not L&R... super lame.

In a different system I have no issues driving crowns to clipping using the Denon, which is probably 15 years old. An old Onkyo I had for a short period of time had the worst sub out in the universe, normal plate amp subs (with the ridiculous gain) were usually near maxed to get anything out of them...
Agreed. If the AVR is putting out Minuscule voltage on the sub out then it will need to be raised. I've had my XLS1500 connected via a SR7011 and Pioneer 1121. I could drive the amp to clipping with the 7011, but had to use a Rolls MB15b Promatch to boost the signal when the amp was connected via the 1121.

Automation: Alexa- Harmony Hub- Wemo Dimmer Switch- Wemo Smart Plug BatCave: SY Triple Black
Video Image: JVC RS500- Sony UBP-800X- Firestick- 125" wide 2.4:1 white over black spandex screen
Audio: 5.2.4 Marantz SR7011- (LCR) QSC 2180 - (Surrounds) (4) BIC FH6-LCR- (Atmos) (4) Dayton Audio B652 6-1/2-Inch- (Subs)2 23ishcuft ported HS24s 14-15Hz tune - 2 Devastator Minis B&C21ds115 - 2 Lavoce SAN214.50 ported cabs 15Hz tune- FP20000Q- 2 Sanway FP10000Q- Crown XLS1500- . To be continued...
johnson636 is online now  
post #88 of 146 Old 05-27-2020, 09:14 AM
Senior Member
 
TheGiantPeach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Denver, Co
Posts: 388
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Apologies if this has been mentioned but have you tried adjusting the gain knob for channel 2? If I remember correctly, when my EP4000 is bridged, both gain knobs affect gain.
TheGiantPeach is offline  
post #89 of 146 Old 05-27-2020, 09:30 AM
Member
 
kmerhar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 40
You need to break up the signal chain so you can better diagnose which part is causing issues. Disconnect from the AVR and connect to a phone/tablet, etc. and play some music. Still the same level issues?

Second, I HIGHLY recommend eliminating the SpeakOn cable from the equation. Easy to get them mixed from misunderstanding how the connections work at both ends (trust me, I know this one well). Run straight speaker wire from binding post to binding post and re-test.

The results of these (2) tests will tell you EXACTLY where your issue is regardless of outcome.

Degenerate track rat, serial amateur speaker builder, and over confident mechanic.
kmerhar is offline  
post #90 of 146 Old 05-27-2020, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
dvdfantastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmerhar View Post
You need to break up the signal chain so you can better diagnose which part is causing issues. Disconnect from the AVR and connect to a phone/tablet, etc. and play some music. Still the same level issues?

Second, I HIGHLY recommend eliminating the SpeakOn cable from the equation. Easy to get them mixed from misunderstanding how the connections work at both ends (trust me, I know this one well). Run straight speaker wire from binding post to binding post and re-test.

The results of these (2) tests will tell you EXACTLY where your issue is regardless of outcome.
I guess I would have to reopen the hatch on the back of the DEV to run this test or I guess just remove the speakon from the amp end and plug to binding posts on the amp.
dvdfantastic is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off