At wits end ... My Devastator story and needed help! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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At wits end ... My Devastator story and needed help!

Well... I was so excited to start a Devastator build (my first ever) and think I did a pretty decent job with it. Now that its complete, I am at wits end considering the equipment I am using and the output that's produced. The problem is that I am a noob when it comes to audio and all the technical jargon is very confusing, atleast for me.

Details:

Sub Cabinet: Devastator Version 6
Driver: Eminence NSW6021-6
AV Receiver: Yamaha RX A2000
Amp for Sub: Crown XLS2502 in bridge mode

I have an RCA cable going from my Yamaha (Sub Pre Out - Front) to xls 2502 Channel 1 input.
I have a Speakon connector going to sub. Speakon wiring is 1+, 2+ at amp end and 1+, 1- at sub end.

Issues:

1) My 10 inch Mirage sub sounds more cleaner and powerful than the devastator. With the xls 2502 channel 1 knob at full throttle, output is way underwhelming. Amp level lights are only up to one light.
2) There is a humming noise from the sub. If I disconnect RCA from Yamaha, hum goes away. Hum remains if I connect the RCA to Yamaha and xls even if the Yamaha is unplugged from the wall.

Considering the cost vs return, I am now doubting this whole DIY scene. I am sure with my non existent knowledge related to audio, I am making some mistakes and would appreciate if someone with far better understanding of settings and all can help me out. Its just driving me nuts....
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post #2 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdfantastic View Post
Well... I was so excited to start a Devastator build (my first ever) and think I did a pretty decent job with it. Now that its complete, I am at wits end considering the equipment I am using and the output that's produced. The problem is that I am a noob when it comes to audio and all the technical jargon is very confusing, atleast for me.

Details:

Sub Cabinet: Devastator Version 6
Driver: Eminence NSW6021-6
AV Receiver: Yamaha RX A2000
Amp for Sub: Crown XLS2502 in bridge mode

I have an RCA cable going from my Yamaha (Sub Pre Out - Front) to xls 2502 Channel 1 input.
I have a Speakon connector going to sub. Speakon wiring is 1+, 2+ at amp end and 1+, 1- at sub end.

Issues:

1) My 10 inch Mirage sub sounds more cleaner and powerful than the devastator. With the xls 2502 channel 1 knob at full throttle, output is way underwhelming. Amp level lights are only up to one light.
2) There is a humming noise from the sub. If I disconnect RCA from Yamaha, hum goes away. Hum remains if I connect the RCA to Yamaha and xls even if the Yamaha is unplugged from the wall.

Considering the cost vs return, I am now doubting this whole DIY scene. I am sure with my non existent knowledge related to audio, I am making some mistakes and would appreciate if someone with far better understanding of settings and all can help me out. Its just driving me nuts....
Well the FIRST thing is that your speakon is wired wrong.... if you are bridging the amp, you need to have 1+ AND 2+ on BOTH ENDS.... the speakon on the box needs 1+ to the POS on the driver and the 2+ to the NEG.


You also need to pickup this.... https://www.minidsp.com/products/min...SAAEgJ01_D_BwE so that you can set a high pass filter so that you you don't damage your woofer. This will also help with any EQ that you may need for your space.


There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that a 10" will be more powerful than that 21".... try this then get back to us. Get this corrected and your doubt of DIY will vanish....


Juju
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Wish List: Anthology http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html


Last edited by jujuman200; 05-25-2020 at 12:49 PM.
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post #3 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 12:47 PM
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Try the above post first but what is the sub channel trim set to ?
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post #4 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 01:03 PM
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Have you set the amp to bridge mode in the amp's interface?

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post #5 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmerhar View Post
Have you set the amp to bridge mode in the amp's interface?
Correct, I have the amp set in bridge mode with 30 Hz High pass filter. This is the lowest it will go at the amp end.
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post #6 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post
Try the above post first but what is the sub channel trim set to ?
I am not sure. Can you suggest a way that I can check? What about the humming noise? Thanks for taking the time to reply!
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post #7 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
Well the FIRST thing is that your speakon is wired wrong.... if you are bridging the amp, you need to have 1+ AND 2+ on BOTH ENDS.... the speakon on the box needs 1+ to the POS on the driver and the 2+ to the NEG.


You also need to pickup this.... https://www.minidsp.com/products/min...SAAEgJ01_D_BwE so that you can set a high pass filter so that you you don't damage your woofer. This will also help with any EQ that you may need for your space.


There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that a 10" will be more powerful than that 21".... try this then get back to us. Get this corrected and your doubt of DIY will vanish....


Juju
Hi jujuman

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I highly appreciate it.
I referred to a pdf by crown audio on how to build a speakon cable which I found on google. Not sure how to attach the same here but steps specified in it were

----------
Crown Field Support Engineering
Issue Date: 17 December 2013
Ref. No: Speakon Wiring for Bridge #0001
Subject: Making a Bridged Speakon Cable

1. With your NL4 connector open you will see 4 internal connections. These are referred to
as ‘Poles” and you have to look close but each are labeled 1+, 1-, 2+ and 2-. The picture
below we tried to highlight those connections and labeled for easy identification.

2. Connect the two speaker wires to 1+ and 2+. The 1+ connection or pole is your positive
to the speaker. The 2+ connection or pole will be the negative to your speaker. See
picture below.

3. Now you can close up your connector and you want to label this end of the cable that it’s
wired for bridge mono as the other end of the cable, if using speakon there, is wired 1+
and 1-. It’s only at the amp end where the speakon would be wired 1+ and 2+

-------

If I have to ammend the cable per your suggestion, do I also need to switch the wiring "inside" the sub? (From neutrik to driver?)
What about the humming noise? How do I get rid of that?
I do have the high pass filter set at 30hz at the crown end, which is the lowest it will go. Do I still need a minidsp?

I did not doubt the diy way and that's the reason why I chose it but the results tell otherwise. I has planned to upgrade my speaker to 1299's and add another DEV to my system but I am holding on on all till I figure this one out. I am seeking all your help on the same. Thank you for your valuable suggestions and guidance. Please lead me to bassland ... Cheers!
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post #8 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 02:16 PM
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Try eliminating the speakon connectors and use the binding post to verify it’s not the connections.

Also, did you adjust the input sensitivity on the amp? How many lights are you able to get with amp level trims turned all the way up?

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post #9 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 02:17 PM
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The sub trim will be somewhere on your Yamaha setup menu.
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post #10 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 02:28 PM
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To add to the list of things to look at/try...

Are you using an RCA -> RCA or RCA -> XLR (or 1/4") from the Yamaha to the Crown? Many unbalanced -> balanced cables have caused issues similar to what you are experiencing.

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post #11 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdfantastic View Post
Amp level lights are only up to one light
You answered your own question.
Level lights don't light up all the way so you haven't turned it up all the way
Pro gear and consumer gear often have their differences. One of those differences happen to be the reference levels on the small signal side.
In short: your amp wants a louder input signal. It's probably currently only going at like 1% of its maximum output power.

Also, pro drivers are usually very immune to damage from over-excursion, so you don't need a HPF. I'd suggest to turn that off. At least that's what I'd do. I'd also get a miniDsp and set the HPF to a few Hz lower than your tuning frequency. On my SKHorn (17Hz tuning) I have the HPF at 14Hz (BW4).


I'm not sure what Juju is on about with the Speakon wiring, that's perfectly fine. A subwoofer/speaker should have its inputs at 1+ and 1-. Since you need to wire 1+ and 2+ from the amp to your sub, that cable is used for that. Be sure to mark it as such. Some amps bridge at 1+ 2-. That has some internal benefits for the amp itself. If you Bridge from 1+ 2+ on an amp that bridges from 1+ 2-, you will only get output from channel 1 I guess. Might depend on the amp, but the channels usually share a common ground afaik.


The reference level difference can be as large as 24db, you need to bring up your subwoofer level on the AVR by a lot. Make sure its output doesn't clip. If you can't get enough volume out of it, your amp might have an input voltage selector. Set that to the lowest voltage/highest gain. If it's still not enough you need a device in between. Which leads you back to the miniDsp ;-)

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post #12 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmerhar View Post
Try eliminating the speakon connectors and use the binding post to verify it’s not the connections.

Also, did you adjust the input sensitivity on the amp? How many lights are you able to get with amp level trims turned all the way up?
I have set the input sensitivity at 0.775 Vrms. I do not get more than one indicator light on the amp. I was expecting it to light up like a Christmas tree
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post #13 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
To add to the list of things to look at/try...

Are you using an RCA -> RCA or RCA -> XLR (or 1/4") from the Yamaha to the Crown? Many unbalanced -> balanced cables have caused issues similar to what you are experiencing.
I am using RCA from Yamaha to Crown and Speakon from crown to sub. Is that correct?
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post #14 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post
The sub trim will be somewhere on your Yamaha setup menu.
Ok thanks. I will take a look at it once I am home. Looking at that manual gives me the jitters.... 200 + pages of confusion and cross reference between pages ????
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post #15 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdfantastic View Post
I am using RCA from Yamaha to Crown and Speakon from crown to sub. Is that correct?
I'm asking if you are using an RCA -> XLR (or 1/4") cable from the AVR to the crown, like this: https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-XRM-105-...=fsclp_pl_dp_3

Or are you using a regular RCA -> RCA cable, like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D5H8G3W...ing=UTF8&psc=1

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post #16 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peniku8 View Post
You answered your own question.
Level lights don't light up all the way so you haven't turned it up all the way
Pro gear and consumer gear often have their differences. One of those differences happen to be the reference levels on the small signal side.
In short: your amp wants a louder input signal. It's probably currently only going at like 1% of its maximum output power.

Also, pro drivers are usually very immune to damage from over-excursion, so you don't need a HPF. I'd suggest to turn that off. At least that's what I'd do. I'd also get a miniDsp and set the HPF to a few Hz lower than your tuning frequency. On my SKHorn (17Hz tuning) I have the HPF at 14Hz (BW4).


I'm not sure what Juju is on about with the Speakon wiring, that's perfectly fine. A subwoofer/speaker should have its inputs at 1+ and 1-. Since you need to wire 1+ and 2+ from the amp to your sub, that cable is used for that. Be sure to mark it as such. Some amps bridge at 1+ 2-. That has some internal benefits for the amp itself. If you Bridge from 1+ 2+ on an amp that bridges from 1+ 2-, you will only get output from channel 1 I guess. Might depend on the amp, but the channels usually share a common ground afaik.


The reference level difference can be as large as 24db, you need to bring up your subwoofer level on the AVR by a lot. Make sure its output doesn't clip. If you can't get enough volume out of it, your amp might have an input voltage selector. Set that to the lowest voltage/highest gain. If it's still not enough you need a device in between. Which leads you back to the miniDsp ;-)
[SNIP].....

Also, pro drivers are usually very immune to damage from over-excursion, so you don't need a HPF. I'd suggest to turn that off. At least that's what I'd do. I'd also get a miniDsp and set the HPF to a few Hz lower than your tuning frequency. On my SKHorn (17Hz tuning) I have the HPF at 14Hz (BW4).


So.... THIS is where you CONTRADICTED YOURSELF.... YES he needs a HPF....


I'm not sure what Juju is on about with the Speakon wiring, that's perfectly fine. A subwoofer/speaker should have its inputs at 1+ and 1-. Since you need to wire 1+ and 2+ from the amp to your sub, that cable is used for that. Be sure to mark it as such. Some amps bridge at 1+ 2-. That has some internal benefits for the amp itself. If you Bridge from 1+ 2+ on an amp that bridges from 1+ 2-, you will only get output from channel 1 I guess. Might depend on the amp, but the channels usually share a common ground afaik.

What I'm on about is your speakon cable that is used on a bridged amp needs to be wired the SAME on both ends....
So... If you 1+ / 2+ on both ends of the cable.... Please explain how you get sound if the box is still 1+ / 1- ..... I'll wait...


Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
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post #17 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
What I'm on about is your speakon cable that is used on a bridged amp needs to be wired the SAME on both ends....
So... If you 1+ / 2+ on both ends of the cable.... Please explain how you get sound if the box is still 1+ / 1- ..... I'll wait...


Juju

No, you are not thinking this through clearly. The connector has a reference for whatever it is plugged into. The receiver dictates that he use 1+ 2+. What he does on the other end is irrelevant, as long as the speaker-end of the cable is connected to the same two terminals used in the speaker => input jack. Any of the 4 positions will work fine, it simply requires that on the speaker end he is consistent!
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post #18 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
[SNIP].....

Also, pro drivers are usually very immune to damage from over-excursion, so you don't need a HPF. I'd suggest to turn that off. At least that's what I'd do. I'd also get a miniDsp and set the HPF to a few Hz lower than your tuning frequency. On my SKHorn (17Hz tuning) I have the HPF at 14Hz (BW4).


So.... THIS is where you CONTRADICTED YOURSELF.... YES he needs a HPF....


I'm not sure what Juju is on about with the Speakon wiring, that's perfectly fine. A subwoofer/speaker should have its inputs at 1+ and 1-. Since you need to wire 1+ and 2+ from the amp to your sub, that cable is used for that. Be sure to mark it as such. Some amps bridge at 1+ 2-. That has some internal benefits for the amp itself. If you Bridge from 1+ 2+ on an amp that bridges from 1+ 2-, you will only get output from channel 1 I guess. Might depend on the amp, but the channels usually share a common ground afaik.

What I'm on about is your speakon cable that is used on a bridged amp needs to be wired the SAME on both ends....
So... If you 1+ / 2+ on both ends of the cable.... Please explain how you get sound if the box is still 1+ / 1- ..... I'll wait...


Juju
I said that he doesn't need a HPF to prevent damage, since this driver has about 7mm of clearance between Xmech and the point where the coil leaves the gap. I'd rather have no HPF than a 30Hz HPF. Of course the best alternative is buying more gear and setting up everything properly, in which case the HPF would be used to prevent distortion from non-linear driver behaviour outside of its rated Xmax/suspension limits which occurs when feeding the sub content a loud signal below the sub's tuning frequency, like WOTW or when you're using BEQ for example. iirc the Devastator is tuned relatively low, so that would probably never happen when listening to music. For movies one would have to try, but from what I gathered from the BEQ thread that shouldn't be much of an issue with 90%+ of the movies around.


About the speakon wiring, what I mean is using a 2 pole cable which connects to 1+ and 2+ on the amp side and 1+ and 1- on the speaker side, which is what has been done here. And yes, that would be a directional cable since you re-wire 2+ from the amp to 1- of the speaker. If you used a regular 4 pole speakon cable, you'd have to solder the subwoofer's terminal to 1+ and 2+ which would be unusual and not good practice. As you can read in the op, the sub does make sound, but it's too quiet. Which rules out any errors on the connection side between amp and speaker

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post #19 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 04:12 PM
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No, you are not thinking this through clearly. The connector has a reference for whatever it is plugged into. The receiver dictates that he use 1+ 2+. What he does on the other end is irrelevant, as long as the speaker-end of the cable is connected to the same two terminals used in the speaker => input jack. Any of the 4 positions will work fine, it simply requires that on the speaker end he is consistent!
The connector has a reference for whatever it is plugged into. The receiver dictates that he use 1+ 2+. What he does on the other end is irrelevant,

This is correct ONLY if all four poles are used....

as long as the speaker-end of the cable is connected to the same two terminals used in the speaker => input jack.

That's what I said.....

Any of the 4 positions will work fine, it simply requires that on the speaker end he is consistent!

That's what I said..... BUT in this case.... the driver needs to be connected by 1+ / 2+ to be consistent with the amp...

If you are sending signal down 1+ / 2+.... how does it SWITCH to 1+ / 1- ? You have to wire the box 1+ / 2+ as well.

EDIT: I see that we are talking about using a 2-pole cable.....that changes things... MY BAD....




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post #20 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peniku8 View Post
I said that he doesn't need a HPF to prevent damage, since this driver has about 7mm of clearance between Xmech and the point where the coil leaves the gap. I'd rather have no HPF than a 30Hz HPF. Of course the best alternative is buying more gear and setting up everything properly, in which case the HPF would be used to prevent distortion from non-linear driver behaviour outside of its rated Xmax/suspension limits which occurs when feeding the sub content a loud signal below the sub's tuning frequency, like WOTW or when you're using BEQ for example. iirc the Devastator is tuned relatively low, so that would probably never happen when listening to music. For movies one would have to try, but from what I gathered from the BEQ thread that shouldn't be much of an issue with 90%+ of the movies around.


About the speakon wiring, what I mean is using a 2 pole cable which connects to 1+ and 2+ on the amp side and 1+ and 1- on the speaker side, which is what has been done here. And yes, that would be a directional cable since you re-wire 2+ from the amp to 1- of the speaker. If you used a regular 4 pole speakon cable, you'd have to solder the subwoofer's terminal to 1+ and 2+ which would be unusual and not good practice. As you can read in the op, the sub does make sound, but it's too quiet. Which rules out any errors on the connection side between amp and speaker
EDIT: I see that we are talking about using a 2-pole cable.....that changes things... MY BAD....

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
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post #21 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
I'm asking if you are using an RCA -> XLR (or 1/4") cable from the AVR to the crown, like this: https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-XRM-105-...=fsclp_pl_dp_3

Or are you using a regular RCA -> RCA cable, like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D5H8G3W...ing=UTF8&psc=1
I am using a regular RCA to RCA cable like the sub woofer cable you linked.
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Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
EDIT: I see that we are talking about using a 2-pole cable.....that changes things... MY BAD....
So is my cable setup correctly? I am using a 2 wire (red, black) cable and not 4 wire. Is the referred steps to build the cable I mentioned correct? Thanks!
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post #23 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdfantastic View Post
Hi jujuman

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I highly appreciate it.
I referred to a pdf by crown audio on how to build a speakon cable which I found on google. Not sure how to attach the same here but steps specified in it were

----------
Crown Field Support Engineering
Issue Date: 17 December 2013
Ref. No: Speakon Wiring for Bridge #0001
Subject: Making a Bridged Speakon Cable

1. With your NL4 connector open you will see 4 internal connections. These are referred to
as ‘Poles” and you have to look close but each are labeled 1+, 1-, 2+ and 2-. The picture
below we tried to highlight those connections and labeled for easy identification.

2. Connect the two speaker wires to 1+ and 2+. The 1+ connection or pole is your positive
to the speaker. The 2+ connection or pole will be the negative to your speaker. See
picture below.

3. Now you can close up your connector and you want to label this end of the cable that it’s
wired for bridge mono as the other end of the cable, if using speakon there, is wired 1+
and 1-. It’s only at the amp end where the speakon would be wired 1+ and 2+

-------

If I have to ammend the cable per your suggestion, do I also need to switch the wiring "inside" the sub? (From neutrik to driver?)
What about the humming noise? How do I get rid of that?
I do have the high pass filter set at 30hz at the crown end, which is the lowest it will go. Do I still need a minidsp?

I did not doubt the diy way and that's the reason why I chose it but the results tell otherwise. I has planned to upgrade my speaker to 1299's and add another DEV to my system but I am holding on on all till I figure this one out. I am seeking all your help on the same. Thank you for your valuable suggestions and guidance. Please lead me to bassland ... Cheers!

A 30Hz HPF is very high and could kill your output below 30Hz


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post #24 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by peniku8 View Post
You answered your own question.
The reference level difference can be as large as 24db, you need to bring up your subwoofer level on the AVR by a lot. Make sure its output doesn't clip. If you can't get enough volume out of it, your amp might have an input voltage selector. Set that to the lowest voltage/highest gain. If it's still not enough you need a device in between. Which leads you back to the miniDsp ;-)
Thanks peniku. What do I need to do to bring up the subwoofer level on the Yamaha? Can you please suggest?
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A 30Hz HPF is very high and could kill your output below 30Hz


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So should I use or not use the HPF? This is all so confusing
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post #26 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdfantastic View Post
So is my cable setup correctly? I am using a 2 wire (red, black) cable and not 4 wire. Is the referred steps to build the cable I mentioned correct? Thanks!
Yep



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Originally Posted by dvdfantastic View Post
Thanks peniku. What do I need to do to bring up the subwoofer level on the Yamaha? Can you please suggest?
If your AVR has Audyssey I'd suggest running it with the new sub. It's possible that you have calibrated the system with your old subwoofer while that sub's output was set very high. The AVR will lower its sub output respectively, which would make the new sub very quiet and makes it sound very bad most likely.
It should calibrate the output to dolby reference, which means you'd hit 115db peaks when the AVR is set to 0MV. I had to set my pro amp to -20db on the input side to reduce the humming, because my sub is quite sensitive, which means it'll amplify unwanted noise more.



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Originally Posted by dvdfantastic View Post
So should I use or not use the HPF? This is all so confusing
I'd start out without one. If you notice that your sub runs out of linear cone travel (clearly audible distortion, try looking it up on youtube maybe), you can still enable it in the settings for that particular movie. No harm done. Bashing the driver way past Xmax for quite literally hours will weaken and eventually damage the suspension, but it takes the determination to actually destroy the poor thing.

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Make sure crown input sensitivity is on .775V
Make sure crown is set to bridged
Make sure gains on front of crown are maxed
Get rid of HPF, don't worry about it for now
Turn sub volume up on receiver
Retest

I'm assuming you did your speakon correctly, but perhaps doublecheck that too.

Report back.
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post #28 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 04:57 PM
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So should I use or not use the HPF? This is all so confusing

Every ported sub I ever saw needs a HPF, just not that high, GSG recommends a HPF @ 17Hz-20Hz, so get a minidsp so you can set a correct HPF and EQ you sub and UMIK-1 which will help you actually see what is going one with your system.


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post #29 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bogaboga View Post
Every ported sub I ever saw needs a HPF, just not that high, GSG recommends a HPF @ 17Hz-20Hz, so get a minidsp so you can set a correct HPF and EQ you sub and UMIK-1 which will help you actually see what is going one with your system.


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Which seller do you recommend I get it from? Direct from minidsp or amazon it? Thanks!
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post #30 of 146 Old 05-25-2020, 05:08 PM
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Which seller do you recommend I get it from? Direct from minidsp or amazon it? Thanks!

I don’t have any experience with buying from minidsp but I think amazon will be faster, also try to do what the other guy above me is saying, but keep it at low volume.


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