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post #1 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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DIY subwoofer

Hello folks - I saw a partsexpress diy subwoofer kit where they ship the cabinet along with the main components. A 10 inch kit cost about $265. Is this the way people usually go while doing a diy subwoofer? How is the quality and I don't see a significant cost difference. My Klipsch r112sw cost about $349. If I wanted to add a second subwoofer in addition to the Klipsch to my room, would I go for something like this? The link is below.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...BoCj48QAvD_BwE

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post #2 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 06:42 AM
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I suggest moving this to the DIY Speakers and Subs forum. For HT use, I would go with a larger (15" or 18") ported sub. I would look at the VBSS subs (there is a detailed write-up in the DIY section) that use the inexpensive Dayton Audio PA460 driver, one sheet of MDF, and a pair of them can be powered with a Behringer NX1000D amp (or up to 8 with a NX3000D).


Each sub can be built in the $160-170 range and an amp is $300. They are really designed to be used as a pair, so that's what I'd suggest, but you could always build one and add a second later.


I would suggest building a pair and selling your Klipsch sub, as it would still be your weak link sub wise.

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post #3 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello folks - I saw a partsexpress diy subwoofer kit where they ship the cabinet along with the main components. A 10 inch kit cost about $265. Is this the way people usually go while doing a diy subwoofer? How is the quality and I don't see a significant cost difference. My Klipsch r112sw cost about $349. If I wanted to add a second subwoofer in addition to the Klipsch to my room, would I go for something like this? The link is below.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...BoCj48QAvD_BwE

My current set up is three JBL studio 590s for the front and two JBL studio 580s for surrounds and two MLT 2s for my rear surrounds. The Klipsch is the weakest link in the chain. However I don't have an option of replacing that with a 15 inch sub because of size constraints behind my AT wall. So this post is more about a second sub I am thinking of to put in the back of the room. If I did end up replacing the Klipsch it will most likely need to be for a 10 inch sub. The ratio between video and music usage is 75-25. ?

I have attached photos which show entry to the behind the screen area, the placement of the current Klipsch sub, the limited space behind the screen and the larger space behind my seating in the room. The dimensions of the room are 13'8" from AT screen to back wall and 12'6" width. Do I even need a second sub given the dimensions?
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post #4 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocs123 View Post
I suggest moving this to the DIY Speakers and Subs forum. For HT use, I would go with a larger (15" or 18") ported sub. I would look at the VBSS subs (there is a detailed write-up in the DIY section) that use the inexpensive Dayton Audio PA460 driver, one sheet of MDF, and a pair of them can be powered with a Behringer NX1000D amp (or up to 8 with a NX3000D).




Each sub can be built in the $160-170 range and an amp is $300. They are really designed to be used as a pair, so that's what I'd suggest, but you could always build one and add a second later.


I would suggest building a pair and selling your Klipsch sub, as it would still be your weak link sub wise.
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post #5 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
Hello folks - I saw a partsexpress diy subwoofer kit where they ship the cabinet along with the main components. A 10 inch kit cost about $265. Is this the way people usually go while doing a diy subwoofer? How is the quality and I don't see a significant cost difference. My Klipsch r112sw cost about $349. If I wanted to add a second subwoofer in addition to the Klipsch to my room, would I go for something like this? The link is below.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...BoCj48QAvD_BwE
Good question. The bang for the buck with DIY comes with the bigger subs. Like the 18" Ultimax and cabinet bundle for $483. Then paired with a pro-amp.

Especially if you're just going to buy one. I would match the exact sub you.

Also keep in mind that you have a ported sub. That one from parts express is sealed. They will sound different, and I wouldn't match ported with sealed. Just my two cents.

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post #6 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
Hello folks - I saw a partsexpress diy subwoofer kit where they ship the cabinet along with the main components. A 10 inch kit cost about $265. Is this the way people usually go while doing a diy subwoofer?
Around here? No, not even close. Most start with 18" drivers and go up from there.

You didn't provide enough information to get good recommendations:
Intended use?
Room size?
How much bass are you looking for? And at what levels?
Size restrictions?

The UMs are very good drivers for the $$. If you're just looking to add a little low end for music that kit should fit the bill, depending on room size.

Sub builds: Yet another Infinity 1260 build | Twins! | Modified V.B.S.S. build | UM12-22 builds | AV stand and sealed UM18s

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post #7 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 07:32 AM
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I would start with giving us how much space behind your screen. We can then help you design a bigger cabinet that'll fit something more like a UM15 or UM18.
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post #8 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Craig S King View Post
I would start with giving us how much space behind your screen. We can then help you design a bigger cabinet that'll fit something more like a UM15 or UM18.
I cannot do behind the screen. That space is fairly constrained with the three JBL studio 590 speakers and the only place to keep the sub is under my speaker for which I already have a speaker stand and a space underneath where the Klipsch fits snuggly. I am talking about adding another sub to the back of the room.

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post #9 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 07:46 AM
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Ok, I misunderstood. Well then there's no reason not to consider the UM18 in the back of your room. It'll be a game changer for you.
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post #10 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I misunderstood. Well then there's no reason not to consider the UM18 in the back of your room. It'll be a game changer for you.
I added pics and additional details you requested to the first message. Hopefully that is helpful.

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post #11 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
Around here? No, not even close. Most start with 18" drivers and go up from there.



You didn't provide enough information to get good recommendations:

Intended use?

Room size?

How much bass are you looking for? And at what levels?

Size restrictions?



The UMs are very good drivers for the $$. If you're just looking to add a little low end for music that kit should fit the bill, depending on room size.
Hello - I added the details to my first message. Hopefully that is helpful.

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post #12 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
Hello - I added the details to my first message. Hopefully that is helpful.

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Also... what type of bass SPL are you looking for? How low do you want your subs to hit? 20Hz? 16Hz?


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post #13 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
I added pics and additional details you requested to the first message. Hopefully that is helpful.

You've got lots of space to play with back there. If it was me (or 90% of the guys in here) I would be thinking a dual 18" setup behind your seating at a minimum.
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post #14 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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You've got lots of space to play with back there. If it was me (or 90% of the guys in here) I would be thinking a dual 18" setup behind your seating at a minimum.
That's probably going to be an overkill for the size of my room. As I said I already have one upfront.

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post #15 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 06:08 PM
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I'm pretty sure almost no one here in the DIY forum would call a 12" a subwoofer, almost everyone have speakers bigger than that.

First time I tried an 18" it was a game changer, like you're missing a lot from the movies because of the limited LFE

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post #16 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm pretty sure almost no one here in the DIY forum would call a 12" a subwoofer, almost everyone have speakers bigger than that.

First time I tried an 18" it was a game changer, like you're missing a lot from the movies because of the limited LFE

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That's probably true. But my room size is small.

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post #17 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 06:23 PM
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That's probably true. But my room size is small.

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How much space you have behind the couch? That is a good spot to put some subs.

I had a room about this size and had 4 15s and 2 18s, bass was perfect.

Now that I have a bigger room (about 4 times bigger) I'm adding more subs to have more headroom.

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post #18 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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How much space you have behind the couch? That is a good spot to put some subs.

I had a room about this size and had 4 15s and 2 18s, bass was perfect.

Now that I have a bigger room (about 4 times bigger) I'm adding more subs to have more headroom.

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I have about 2.5 feet behind the recliners.

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I have about 2.5 feet behind the recliners.

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That's enough to fit some 18" near field

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post #20 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 07:08 PM
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That's probably going to be an overkill for the size of my room. As I said I already have one upfront.

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There is NO SUCH THING as overkill when it comes to bass.... with a 12", you are missing a whole octave of sound in your movies..... yes, some 18s will change your life....


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That's probably true. But my room size is small.

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Your point is what? it's not a closet.... for example.... my room is 17x21... I have two 21" + four 18".... the bass is awesome.
you have plenty of room to stretch out.... now wanting to is another matter...


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Dual 18's nearfiled is awesome! I run 2 upfront cornered and 2 nearfiled.

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I'm a big fan of the VBSS design and don't think it can be beat for bang for the buck. I'd suggest a pair of them behind your seats powered by a Behringer NX1000D. My guess is that would be perfect in your room. To be honest a single 12" sub is not enough for HT use though it might be enough for music. The 590's probably overpower your sub.
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post #24 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mocs123 View Post
I'm a big fan of the VBSS design and don't think it can be beat for bang for the buck. I'd suggest a pair of them behind your seats powered by a Behringer NX1000D. My guess is that would be perfect in your room. To be honest a single 12" sub is not enough for HT use though it might be enough for music. The 590's probably overpower your sub.
What size behind the couch should I shoot for? Amazon review for behringer seems to be low.

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What size behind the couch should I shoot for? Amazon review for behringer seems to be low.

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Most of the people here have at least one Berry and they work just fine.....BTW, I am banging one myself with zero issues for a few years now....

Here you go.... The V.B.S.S. DIY subwoofer design thread

OR

These... MartySub FAQ

Two of either of these will set you on the right path to begin with....


Juju

Sub List: 1- Red Five Mini V1 Devastator 18" w/PA460, 1- Red Five Devastator LFE 21", 1- Red Five Devastator 21" Finalizer V2 DF , 1- BOSS platform [The Hideaway Theater], 2- 18" "Full Marty" tuned to 17Hz w/RSS460HO
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post #26 of 33 Old 05-30-2020, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mocs123 View Post
I'm a big fan of the VBSS design and don't think it can be beat for bang for the buck. I'd suggest a pair of them behind your seats powered by a Behringer NX1000D. My guess is that would be perfect in your room. To be honest a single 12" sub is not enough for HT use though it might be enough for music. The 590's probably overpower your sub.
I looked at martysub and it says for an 18 inch subwoofer you should use one NX3000d and for two to use one NX6000d. Would it be ok to use one NX1000d to power two 18inch subs?

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post #27 of 33 Old 05-31-2020, 06:14 AM
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While technically you could power a pair with an NX1000D, you'd be leaving a lot of performance on the table. The "Marty" subs are generally designed for the Dayton Audio Ulti-max 18" Sub which is a high excursion consumer sub that is generally considered to be a good value for the DIYer but they require a lot of power (and a big cabinet) for maximum effect. The driver isn't particularly efficient (87db) and is a 4Ohm load.



You can power a pair of VBSS subs with an NX1000D because they use a different driver, the Dayton Audio PA460, which is a pro -PA driver that the designer, Matt Grant (mtg90), saw potential in and uses the DSP in the amp and cabinet design to make a viable subwoofer out of it. The PA460 is an efficient (98db), easy to drive (8Ohm) driver and a pair can be powered to max potential with an NX1000D. The extreme value of the VBSS, is not only that it is cheap to build with a $100 driver and single sheet of MDF, but also that you can power a pair off of the Behringer NX1000D or up to eight from a NX3000D - that's some serious firepower for not a lot of amp.


The Dayton 18" Ultimax used in the Marty subs digs deep and is particularly good below 30Hz, it's a little lean on midbass, which is where the Dayton PA460 used in the VBSS shines. Some people use both a Full Marty and a VBSS (tuned higher to 31Hz or 40Hz) in the same system. If you want serious output below 20Hz the PA-460 isn't for you, but it's a beast in the 30Hz and up region where much of the bass we see in movies and music is. Either the Marty or VBSS subs would be awesome in your room, and either should blow the socks off your Klipsch sub.

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post #28 of 33 Old 05-31-2020, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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While technically you could power a pair with an NX1000D, you'd be leaving a lot of performance on the table. The "Marty" subs are generally designed for the Dayton Audio Ulti-max 18" Sub which is a high excursion consumer sub that is generally considered to be a good value for the DIYer but they require a lot of power (and a big cabinet) for maximum effect. The driver isn't particularly efficient (87db) and is a 4Ohm load.



You can power a pair of VBSS subs with an NX1000D because they use a different driver, the Dayton Audio PA460, which is a pro -PA driver that the designer, Matt Grant (mtg90), saw potential in and uses the DSP in the amp and cabinet design to make a viable subwoofer out of it. The PA460 is an efficient (98db), easy to drive (8Ohm) driver and a pair can be powered to max potential with an NX1000D. The extreme value of the VBSS, is not only that it is cheap to build with a $100 driver and single sheet of MDF, but also that you can power a pair off of the Behringer NX1000D or up to eight from a NX3000D - that's some serious firepower for not a lot of amp.


The Dayton 18" Ultimax used in the Marty subs digs deep and is particularly good below 30Hz, it's a little lean on midbass, which is where the Dayton PA460 used in the VBSS shines. Some people use both a Full Marty and a VBSS (tuned higher to 31Hz or 40Hz) in the same system. If you want serious output below 20Hz the PA-460 isn't for you, but it's a beast in the 30Hz and up region where much of the bass we see in movies and music is. Either the Marty or VBSS subs would be awesome in your room, and either should blow the socks off your Klipsch sub.
Good points. I was going down the rabbit hole with Marty research. If I need to pivot now to VBSS can you advise if they are available in a ported config? I hear mixing ported (my Klipsch) and sealed will not be good. Also the Klipsch is not going away. It is still in the front. I just need to add the other sub(s) in the back. Does VBSS come with a bunch of options like the marty does in cube, micro, mini, full etc? Also I read elsewhere that the Marty outpaces the VBSS. Is there any truth to it or is the difference too minimal in my small room?

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post #29 of 33 Old 05-31-2020, 06:39 AM
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Yes the VBSS is a ported sub. Most are tuned to 20Hz, but there are other tunes as well (15Hz, 31Hz, 40Hz) that just vary the length of the ports. There are not a buch of different sizes though there is a dual driver version that has recently come up. It is a very versatile design though and people modify the cabinet to meet their space requirements - generally the only thing that matters is the volume of the cabinet.



The VBSS is generally considered to be more musical, but I haven't heard a Marty so I can't comment. The Marty is probably more powerful, but the driver costs three times as much as the VBSS.
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post #30 of 33 Old 05-31-2020, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes the VBSS is a ported sub. Most are tuned to 20Hz, but there are other tunes as well (15Hz, 31Hz, 40Hz) that just vary the length of the ports. There are not a buch of different sizes though there is a dual driver version that has recently come up. It is a very versatile design though and people modify the cabinet to meet their space requirements - generally the only thing that matters is the volume of the cabinet.



The VBSS is generally considered to be more musical, but I haven't heard a Marty so I can't comment. The Marty is probably more powerful, but the driver costs three times as much as the VBSS.
Thank you. Keeping cost down is absolutely important for me.

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