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post #1 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Build or Buy? Canadian - $2k(ish) Budget .

First post here, long time lurker! My room is 2,350ish ft^3

I am looking at upgrading my single Velodyne CHT-12 that I have had for almost 15 years. I have read a bajillion posts, emailed companies (HSU, PSA..etc), gotten quotes, crapped myself at shipping costs (Canadian) and have landed on a dual set up with the two subs as a final destination for buying options.

Monolith 12" x2
SVS PB-2000 Pro x2


THEN I was asked if I can DIY and was sent the V.B.S.S DIY link (too new so post link) and I have access to someone who can help - but will it be better (comparable) than two of the above subs?

Would there be a dual ported DIY set up for under $2k that would be similar to the above subs? I am ok with a better set up but not ok with worse or 'close', lol

I LOVE the look of the DIY dual ported box but not a fan of the paper cone that the the PA460-8 has so the Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4 looks so much better (hopefully they have an 8ohm version) but I assume one could not just drop it into the same box size in the VBSS DIY...if there is a build template with cut sizes and a 'guide' I can totally do a DIY set up.


Thank you!!!

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post #2 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 04:38 PM
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How big of a box can you live with?


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post #3 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 04:41 PM
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Build 100%

I am just about finished 5 HT10
4 micro marty subwoofer with DIY sound group 15" buyouts subs. Eminence lab 15 kinda.

Per dollar with a little work should beat anything under 1000per speaker
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post #4 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bogaboga View Post
How big of a box can you live with?
My room is 13.5ft wide and 21ft long (should memory serve me) so 30" wide or less would be nice and length could do 36" perhaps or bigger (guessing) but pretty open to anything at this point.

System will be 90% movies 10% music. I love LFE and also crisp punchy bass that will knock my dad on his ass when I play his #1 home theatre song Eagles - Hotel California live version. He used to have a 1k rms sub but I am not sure what he had so want to drop his jaw, lol.
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post #5 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Build 100%

I am just about finished 5 HT10
4 micro marty subwoofer with DIY sound group 15" buyouts subs. Eminence lab 15 kinda.

Per dollar with a little work should beat anything under 1000per speaker
Sounds like it will be awesome!

I am hoping I can find a fool proof guide (or support) for a box as my step and I can cut and glue everything but can't be guesswork as he has the tools and needs ABC instructions.

At this point I am not sure if the woofer I like better is comparable, worse, possible...etc just that apaper cone is a no go - kids, cat and I hate the look....


Thanks!
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post #6 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 05:03 PM
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Two devastators with an amp and a miniDsp will run you about 2500$ I think and will outperform half a dozen of the subs you've mentioned.
The bandpass design also keeps the cone safe from kids and cats. The pro drivers like the 21ds115 are super tight with low inductance, so their music performance will be stellar in any well designed cab.
Edit: forgot you mentioned that your budget is 2kCAD not USD. That's like 2 pennies I heard
But have a look at gear costs of two LaVoce San 214.50+Behringer NX6000+miniDsp 2x4HD (and a UMIK). If you think you can stretch your budged that far, you'll have a bass setup which outperforms anything store-bought for twice the price or probably even more.

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post #7 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by peniku8 View Post
Two devastators with an amp and a miniDsp will run you about 2500$ I think and will outperform half a dozen of the subs you've mentioned.
The bandpass design also keeps the cone safe from kids and cats. The pro drivers like the 21ds115 are super tight with low inductance, so their music performance will be stellar in any well designed cab.
Edit: forgot you mentioned that your budget is 2kCAD not USD. That's like 2 pennies I heard
But have a look at gear costs of two LaVoce San 214.50+Behringer NX6000+miniDsp 2x4HD (and a UMIK). If you think you can stretch your budged that far, you'll have a bass setup which outperforms anything store-bought for twice the price or probably even more.
Excuse me with exchange it is more like 2.374 pennies!!! lol

Those subs are huge but I am just so against the paper cone look, I couldnt do it.
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post #8 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 05:18 PM
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Fellow Canuck here, if you have any questions about how/where to buy stuff let me know. I've built a pair of VBSS but sold them ... for reasons unrelated to performance.
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post #9 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 05:22 PM
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Marty subwoofer line up is foolproof

Vbss foolproof

Dev line up with pa-460 foolproof

Dev lineup is king you'll probably be 500$ into them per with out amp.
But nx3000 will work perfectly.
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post #10 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Fellow Canuck here, if you have any questions about how/where to buy stuff let me know. I've built a pair of VBSS but sold them ... for reasons unrelated to performance.
That would be awesome as parts-express is about the only place I've found but I am not settled on any one sub but a 15" or 18" would be nice.

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Marty subwoofer line up is foolproof

Vbss foolproof

Dev line up with pa-460 foolproof

Dev lineup is king you'll probably be 500$ into them per with out amp.
But nx3000 will work perfectly.

Any chance there are threads with builds to copy or steps? Building a correct ported box is the biggest hurdle but easy if there are steps.

The VBSS steps are awesome but I am not a fan of that sub's look so I am very open if there other options laid out like that!
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post #11 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 05:49 PM
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I bought my drivers from parts express, had them ship it to CBI USA and I picked them up myself in Niagara. The inuke amps are pretty good, but they have a few limitations. First is the stock fan needs to be replaced, it is super loud. The 2nd limitation is no 12v trigger. I am back and forth about selling my inuke1000dsp.
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post #12 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 05:52 PM
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Did you even look at the Devastator? It's a band pass. You will not see the cone.

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post #13 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 05:57 PM
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what kind of sub form factor are you looking for?

many of the subs can be reconfigured to what you would like or might fit in your space.

but there are a ton of designs floating around.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #14 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 05:58 PM
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Build or Buy? Canadian - $2k(ish) Budget .

Since you want a simple build then probably the Marty subs are simplest yet popular subs around here, the drivers that can work good in a Marty sub and don’t have the pro look are UM-18, they look like this

Here is one in a mini Marty


Also the fi HT-1


Also the devastator looks like this


As you can see the drivers are hidden.

Pick and choose which ever you like, there is no bad decision here.
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post #15 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 06:00 PM
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I didn't think my VBSS were that ugly

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post #16 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 06:25 PM
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Build or Buy?
100% buy...the parts needed to build a killer sub setup
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post #17 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post
I bought my drivers from parts express, had them ship it to CBI USA and I picked them up myself in Niagara. The inuke amps are pretty good, but they have a few limitations. First is the stock fan needs to be replaced, it is super loud. The 2nd limitation is no 12v trigger. I am back and forth about selling my inuke1000dsp.
I don't want to side track this thread but since it may end up being useful for the OP I wanted to include a link to a 12v trigger/plug in for pro amps. Just installed mine after researching a bunch and not finding any great solutions. Works great so far!

https://www.adafruit.com/product/2935%0A
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post #18 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 07:31 PM
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Hiya Mixma,

and welcome to AVS !

Another vote for 'build' .... but you did post this in the DIY sub-forum, so what did you really expect?

Then again, we do have much better systems here.

Joseph

mods, can we have a 'dislike' button ?
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post #19 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 07:43 PM
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Grab some IXLs from Mach 5. Build a couple Marty subs and have fun.
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post #20 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Did you even look at the Devastator? It's a band pass. You will not see the cone.
HUGE! Downside is the boxes (x2) without shipping, taxes or duty are in the $1,350 range and the style of the box and the cuts needed are beyond the helps I can enlist. The VBSS style is about as crazy as I can get with the cuts before I have to order a flatpack, table saw, circular saw, jig, drill press..that's about the extent of tools.

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Originally Posted by bogaboga View Post
Since you want a simple build then probably the Marty subs are simplest yet popular subs around here, the drivers that can work good in a Marty sub and don’t have the pro look are UM-18, they look like this

.......

Pick and choose which ever you like, there is no bad decision here.
The Mini Marty looks good

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I didn't think my VBSS were that ugly
That's actually really clean looking - I guess if I go this route I will treat them like my wife and just keep my distance!

Hows the bass for movies? I've read a few mixed reviews as while I do listen to music and enjoy the punch, I love the explosions and rumbling and heard that these are better with music than the LFE stuff - what is your opinion?

Are these comparable to dual PB-2000's?

I wish I could demo a set up like yours. I am sure these would sound better than my lonely Velo CHT-12....lol

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Originally Posted by radchad3 View Post
I don't want to side track this thread but since it may end up being useful for the OP I wanted to include a link to a 12v trigger/plug in for pro amps. Just installed mine after researching a bunch and not finding any great solutions. Works great so far!

https://www.adafruit.com/product/2935%0A
Thanks, that's a good idea - TV turns on and everything else along with it.

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Hiya Mixma,

and welcome to AVS !

Another vote for 'build' .... but you did post this in the DIY sub-forum, so what did you really expect?

Then again, we do have much better systems here.

Joseph
Thanks!
Hahaa I came here for this exact reason I want people who have built things to give me input!!!
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post #21 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Grab some IXLs from Mach 5. Build a couple Marty subs and have fun.
Those look decent! is there a certain Marty sub box that would best suit them? The 'roundover series' look sharp

I am just looking at the GSGAD website now as that's the only spot I have found 'marty sub' boxes.
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post #22 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 08:46 PM
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I'd suggest finding a friend with better woodworking skills, or developing your own.

You wouldn't need all the things you listed... certainly not a drill press or table saw. You technically could do every cut with a jigsaw, or even a plunge router, a solid guide (could be a 2x4), and some clamps. A circle guide can be made with a paint stir-stick and a few screws, mason line, or even a fishing leader. Not having every tool $ can buy can make you get really creative with what you already have.

Don't overthink this... easy to do, but truly not necessary. You can do it yourself. Lots of good people here willing to help. Personally, I wouldn't even ask for any loons. Not that they're worth anything here.

This is all IMO, and YMMV
Joseph

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post #23 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I am kind of liking the IXL-18.

Canadian company, no customs, duties or other fees attached - is it a better sub than the PA460?

I see through searching that there is a box design for the IXL-18....something like this with a cut list on building would be a huge help! (unless this box is golden) flared ports steal my heart though.



Quote:
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I'd suggest finding a friend with better woodworking skills, or developing your own.

You wouldn't need all the things you listed... certainly not a drill press or table saw. You technically could do every cut with a jigsaw, or even a plunge router, a solid guide (could be a 2x4), and some clamps. A circle guide can be made with a paint stir-stick and a few screws, mason line, or even a fishing leader. Not having every tool $ can buy can make you get really creative with what you already have.

Don't overthink this... easy to do, but truly not necessary. You can do it yourself. Lots of good people here willing to help. Personally, I wouldn't even ask for any loons. Not that they're worth anything here.

This is all IMO, and YMMV
Joseph
Good advice, thank you! My step dad has more tools, I was spit balling, lol. I have jack crap and no room - garage full
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post #24 of 48 Old 06-29-2020, 10:50 PM
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No idea on the IXL ... that's that WinISD is for... freeware, and again, an opportunity to expand your own knowledge base.

This is the DIY forum. So there is some aspect of doing it yourself. It's a very simple, but very good program, developed, and updated by another DIY contributor. Well worth the curve. Again, lots of people, myself included, willing to help you expand on your knowledge base, as you do.

As always, IMO, and YMMV
Joseph

pre-emptive edit... you won't be spoon-fed here.

mods, can we have a 'dislike' button ?
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post #25 of 48 Old 06-30-2020, 07:27 AM
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I actually had home depot make all my cuts on their vertical track saw, I don't have a table saw or track saw yet. All you need in terms of tools to build subs is either a brad nailer or clamps, glorious clamps. I wasn't blown away with my pair of VBSS, they produce what I will call foundational bass, it somehow improves your main speaker's sound, there is something about the bass being put back into the mix that improves the overall sound. I thought the VBSS would have more gut pounding bass but it was really more a low frequency monster, it shook EVERYTHING. I didn't really appreciate what they did until I sold them (I thought I was moving into a downtown condo). I think had I spent more time with them and/or had a bigger amp than my inuke1000 I would have grown to really love them. I now have to rely on my Signet SP200 which is a 15 year old 15" sub. My signet sub was great for its day, I spent a huge amount of time listening to every commercial sub I could at the time. The VBSS dwarfs the Signet in every way.

At the end of the day commercial subs aren't doing anything magical, they are using the same drivers and amps we have access to or they are using cheaper stuff that what we ignore. They are limited by shipping and aesthetics that we aren't. If you spend the same amount of money on parts that a commercial sub is at retail you will get better sound, just stick to a known design and don't try to redesign the wheel.

Personally I really do miss what a MBM can do, so I have a pair of 15" MBM from DIYsound group on order, I will then decide if i want to add a pair of 21" or a single 24" next year for LFE.
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post #26 of 48 Old 06-30-2020, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wlhungdude View Post
No idea on the IXL ... that's that WinISD is for... freeware, and again, an opportunity to expand your own knowledge base.

This is the DIY forum. So there is some aspect of doing it yourself. It's a very simple, but very good program, developed, and updated by another DIY contributor. Well worth the curve. Again, lots of people, myself included, willing to help you expand on your knowledge base, as you do.

As always, IMO, and YMMV
Joseph

pre-emptive edit... you won't be spoon-fed here.
I used to dabble in that program 15 years ago (huge car stereo buff) but can't remember crap anymore but will to learn!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post
I actually had home depot make all my cuts on their vertical track saw, I don't have a table saw or track saw yet. All you need in terms of tools to build subs is either a brad nailer or clamps, glorious clamps. I wasn't blown away with my pair of VBSS, they produce what I will call foundational bass, it somehow improves your main speaker's sound, there is something about the bass being put back into the mix that improves the overall sound. I thought the VBSS would have more gut pounding bass but it was really more a low frequency monster, it shook EVERYTHING. I didn't really appreciate what they did until I sold them (I thought I was moving into a downtown condo). I think had I spent more time with them and/or had a bigger amp than my inuke1000 I would have grown to really love them. I now have to rely on my Signet SP200 which is a 15 year old 15" sub. My signet sub was great for its day, I spent a huge amount of time listening to every commercial sub I could at the time. The VBSS dwarfs the Signet in every way.

At the end of the day commercial subs aren't doing anything magical, they are using the same drivers and amps we have access to or they are using cheaper stuff that what we ignore. They are limited by shipping and aesthetics that we aren't. If you spend the same amount of money on parts that a commercial sub is at retail you will get better sound, just stick to a known design and don't try to redesign the wheel.

Personally I really do miss what a MBM can do, so I have a pair of 15" MBM from DIYsound group on order, I will then decide if i want to add a pair of 21" or a single 24" next year for LFE.
Thank you for the info!

I am going for that low freq but also a decent punch with music - I want my dads jaw to drop when the kick comes in on as he used to have a pretty awesome set up and my current Velodyne cht-12 isn't quite as loud. Hotel California's live Acoustic.

I assume a pair of these VBSS will eat my CHT-12?

Last edited by mixma; 06-30-2020 at 11:35 AM.
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post #27 of 48 Old 06-30-2020, 08:46 AM
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If you were local I could sell you my inuke with the VBSS programming already done ! Hehe I am considering throwing my MBM onto my 7ch ATI 200w amp. The inuke wouldn't be enough for a 21 or 24" sub so I am not sure what to with it now. I am curious to know how these 15" MBM will compare to my VBSS. I also plan to veneer the MBM to match my main speakers so it will take awhile to build.
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post #28 of 48 Old 06-30-2020, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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If you were local I could sell you my inuke with the VBSS programming already done ! Hehe I am considering throwing my MBM onto my 7ch ATI 200w amp. The inuke wouldn't be enough for a 21 or 24" sub so I am not sure what to with it now. I am curious to know how these 15" MBM will compare to my VBSS. I also plan to veneer the MBM to match my main speakers so it will take awhile to build.
I guess BC is a ways out, lol

Can you share where to find everything for the VBSS?

Solen.ca has the PA460-8 but only 1 in stock - $412 after shipping and all that for two, Parts-Express is $390 but duty..etc will probably put them well above.
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post #29 of 48 Old 06-30-2020, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixma View Post
HUGE! Downside is the boxes (x2) without shipping, taxes or duty are in the $1,350 range and the style of the box and the cuts needed are beyond the helps I can enlist. The VBSS style is about as crazy as I can get with the cuts before I have to order a flatpack, table saw, circular saw, jig, drill press..that's about the extent of tools.
You can do 99.9999% with 5 tools - and something to support your pieces while cutting.

Tape Measure - You probably have one already, but it is worth mentioning.

Plunge Router & at least a 1/4" spiral upcut bit for round cutouts. Roundover bits, flush cut bits, straight bits, chamfer bits, etc. are nice to have, but not absolutely necessary.

Circle Jig - you can make your own, but having a premade makes things much easier, and guarantees you get the right diameter (provided you pay attention to things while setting it up) - definitely not absolutely necessary though.

Track Saw & a good finish cut blade
Framing Square - this is an absolute must for larger panels. The 3-4-5 method works, but a square take the guess work and math out of the equation.

You could probably even do most of it with just a circular saw, a straight edge, a jigsaw, a tape measure, & a framing square.

Even with flat packs you'll need a good amount of clamps for gluing, so I have not included those. You can use a finish brad nailer instead of clamps as well.

If you are going to purchase a circular saw, I would recommend getting a track saw. The WEN track saw I have is perfect for a hobbyist, and it is 1/6th the cost of a Festool or Makita. If you were doing contract work, or just wanted the best tools, the Festool or Makita are the way to go. But for hobby work, the WEN and a good blade will pay for itself in ease of accuracy and perfectly straight cuts within the first couple panels - in my opinion anyway.

My build game was elevated to another level by the track saw. I do also have a table saw, but long sheet goods are difficult to cut solo, so I use the track saw for that. Smaller pieces are definitely easier, faster, and more easily repeatable with the table saw. It is by no means a must have tool though.

Here's the last subwoofer I built (I still have to stain and clear coat it cherry to match my speakers):
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drewp29 is offline  
post #30 of 48 Old 06-30-2020, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewp29 View Post
You can do 99.9999% with 5 tools - and something to support your pieces while cutting.

Tape Measure - You probably have one already, but it is worth mentioning.

Plunge Router & at least a 1/4" spiral upcut bit for round cutouts. Roundover bits, flush cut bits, straight bits, chamfer bits, etc. are nice to have, but not absolutely necessary.

Circle Jig - you can make your own, but having a premade makes things much easier, and guarantees you get the right diameter (provided you pay attention to things while setting it up) - definitely not absolutely necessary though.

Track Saw & a good finish cut blade
Framing Square - this is an absolute must for larger panels. The 3-4-5 method works, but a square take the guess work and math out of the equation.

You could probably even do most of it with just a circular saw, a straight edge, a jigsaw, a tape measure, & a framing square.

Even with flat packs you'll need a good amount of clamps for gluing, so I have not included those. You can use a finish brad nailer instead of clamps as well.

If you are going to purchase a circular saw, I would recommend getting a track saw. The WEN track saw I have is perfect for a hobbyist, and it is 1/6th the cost of a Festool or Makita. If you were doing contract work, or just wanted the best tools, the Festool or Makita are the way to go. But for hobby work, the WEN and a good blade will pay for itself in ease of accuracy and perfectly straight cuts within the first couple panels - in my opinion anyway.

My build game was elevated to another level by the track saw. I do also have a table saw, but long sheet goods are difficult to cut solo, so I use the track saw for that. Smaller pieces are definitely easier, faster, and more easily repeatable with the table saw. It is by no means a must have tool though.

Here's the last subwoofer I built (I still have to stain and clear coat it cherry to match my speakers):

I think, after looking more at the devastator that it is too damn big, lol.

I am heavily leaning towards the VBSS or the Marty.....reading mixed reviews that VBSS sounds boomy, Marty plays deeper/louder.

Could one just drop 2X IXL-18 in a Full Marty?
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