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-   -   two subs always worth it if you have the space and cash? (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/708014-two-subs-always-worth-if-you-have-space-cash.html)

zkaudio 08-07-2006 01:05 AM

So here's my situation,

I've been pulled into the idea of building a sub (s) instead of purchasing a commercially available model.

number one reason for this is that I have a QSC plx3402 sitting in a closet wasting away. Seems like a sufficient amp to drive any of the subs I see round these parts. Now, onto my question:

Given this amp's output, what route should I take? I am pretty sold on the LMS driver or at least the tc-2000, tcsounds subs seem to be much more engineered for the $$ than any others I've seen. The build quality alone sells me... ( this is just my impression mind you )

I want my subs to have some HT capability (low freq resp) but music is probably 60% of their usage...I assume I'm going to be told to build two sealed enclosures and colocate them. Is there any other advice out there from seasoned builders on what works best for very "musical" and accurate subs, preferrably that don't skimp out on super low freq. Most likely be using them along with x-ls until upgrade down the road. Thank you in advance, I've poured through various diy forums, but have found that not as many people are searching for musicality as are "ultimate thump"

Willd 08-07-2006 02:14 AM

Well, the DIY world is split when it comes to this area. I can't tell you what is right...but that QSC amp is a beast. You should definitely be putting it to use.

Two of those TC-2000s, each in a big sonosub, tuned low, would give you insane performance.

For sealed subs to have excellent "super low frequency performance" EQ is needed. You could certainly build two TC-2000 sealed boxes, then use something like the Behringer DEQ, for excellent low-end (as well as "musical" response). If you have the extra money, and you want to go for it, then get the LMS by all means. Around here, most of the guys are looking for the best value. I would certainly not fault you, though.

The LMS lineup is nice. A pair of those, with that QSC, would give you some ridiculously low-distortion/musical bass, no doubt.

noodle_snacks 08-07-2006 05:35 AM

There are two primary advantages to dual subwoofers in my mind.

Though sounds below approximately 80hz are not localisable, subwoofer crossovers are usually second order slopes, (dropping 12db per octave). Secondly subwoofers will generally have some distortion, (2nd harmonic for 60hz tone would be 120hz, 3rd harmonic would be 180hz etc). This means generally subwoofers are localised easily enough. Dual subwoofers, either side of the stereo pair means any localisation is still found between the center of the two speakers, and therefore inoffensive.

Some people use equalisation (such as the behringer feedback destroyer pro, i personally use this) in order to smooth out room response, however this correction is only valid for one point in space. Multiple subwoofers more evenly excite room modes, yielding a more even in room response over a wider area.

I just signed up, so the site won't let me post urls however the article that is worth looking at is the first with the google search term: "Low Frequency Optimization Goals The Crux of the Matter", written by harman, a good read.

noodle_snacks 08-07-2006 05:56 AM

the other factor that i forgot to mention in the first paragraph is port noise, if the subwoofer is not properly designed and doesn't have big enough flares etc. Ported subwoofers are actually _lower_ in distortion if done right however, making them harder to localise if port noise was not a factor.

If one single sub is used over two seperates they can be mounted push pull, this will cancel even order harmonic distortion, making it harder to localise, i'd say the benefits of more even room modes outweighs this though.

zkaudio 08-07-2006 10:41 AM

Thanks for the info thus far. I've read that the eclipse sub is a rebadged lms 400, but it doesn't look like it to me. I have no problem ponying up the extra cash if it's noticably sonically superior... The 2000 seems like the right choice for me if the lms isn't all it's cracked up to be... plus I could do 15"s ... :D

Willd 08-07-2006 11:31 AM

Well, the Eciplse uses the LMS coil, but it isn't entirely the same. Sonically...it is probably very close. I don't think they are worth it though (well, not unless you are filthy rich). You'd be better off with two tc-2000 15"s for the money.

zkaudio 08-07-2006 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Willd
Well, the Eciplse uses the LMS coil, but it isn't entirely the same. Sonically...it is probably very close. I don't think they are worth it though (well, not unless you are filthy rich). You'd be better off with two tc-2000 15"s for the money.
kinda what I'm thinking

zkaudio 08-08-2006 05:08 PM

okay so two tc-2000 15"s is the order, I may start with one for the time being as my neighbor's house is fairly close to my theater room (gotta love so cal) and I don't want to rattle his dishes out of the cabinets. Worried though that this amp will cook a single speaker lol, I'm gonna have to keep it on a short leash:(

Willd 08-08-2006 05:36 PM

The TC Sounds stuff is built so well, I wouldn't worry about it. Headroom is always a good thing, anyway. Now, you just have to decide whether you want to go sealed or ported.

If you go with a sealed setup, I'd suggest something like the Merchand Bassis (http://www.marchandelec.com/wm8.html) or the Behringer DEQ (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=248-661). With either the bassis or the DEQ, you could significantly increase your low-frequency (<20Hz) performance. And of course, with the DEQ, you could use the parametic EQ to give you a pretty flat frequency response.

zkaudio 08-08-2006 05:41 PM

I have the hk635 and would be using the crossover built into that in conjunction with another if necessary. I would also look into using something like rdes to use the computer to curve my eq response. I have a TON of mic's laying around my studio that might work well for the job too.

Willd 08-08-2006 05:59 PM

It doesn't matter that you will be using your HK635 (and its crossover). Both of those products don't affect the crossover point. The DEQ can do what the RDES does (for the most part), and more, for less.

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