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post #31 of 120 Old 01-13-2008, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a test tone cd, 10hz to 80hz. At 10hz I believe my Galaxy cm-140 meter reads 10.5 db low? I get 119db uncorrected at 10hz. It seems to be decently flat from 20-50 +-5 db, and a nasty -6 to -10 db dip down from 55-68, crossover is @ 80hz right now. This with no eq, no treatments, and no speaker placement adjusting. yet, lol
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post #32 of 120 Old 01-13-2008, 09:22 AM
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Only down 10db at 10Hz that is pretty nice sealed FR if you ask me.

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post #33 of 120 Old 01-13-2008, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Only down 10db at 10Hz that is pretty nice sealed FR if you ask me.

Yeah that's some nice room gain.

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post #34 of 120 Old 01-13-2008, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Thats if I am correcting the reading correctly. lol at 10hz the correction is 10.5 db??
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post #35 of 120 Old 01-13-2008, 10:40 AM
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I think your Behringers will provide you with enough power.Reason being is you have so many drivers.If you had a pair of 18's I would suggest a more powerful amp, but since you have (8) 18's , those 2500's will kick ass for sure.

I can think of three scene's that I would love to hear.Dora knocking on the fish tank in Finding Nemo, the sock blowing up in Monsters inc. , and the scene where Ironhide blasts off two rounds into the pavement to hurl himself over the girl in the street in Transformers !

Displacement.....there's no replacement......

Now to dial into 5hz to catch all the action!!!!!

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post #36 of 120 Old 01-13-2008, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 100000watt View Post

Thats if I am correcting the reading correctly. lol at 10hz the correction is 10.5 db??

That's correct.

Here's the full table.

5.00 -24.00
6.00 -18.80
7.00 -16.09
8.00 -13.77
9.00 -11.90
10.00 -10.62
11.00 -9.86
12.00 -9.03
13.00 -8.40
14.00 -7.95
15.00 -7.40
16.00 -7.04
17.00 -6.56
18.00 -6.28
19.00 -5.90
20.00 -5.49
21.00 -5.10
22.00 -4.75
23.00 -4.35
24.00 -4.03
25.00 -3.73
26.00 -3.53
27.00 -3.25
28.00 -3.00
29.00 -2.80
30.00 -2.70
31.00 -2.60
32.00 -2.42
33.00 -2.34
34.00 -2.22
35.00 -2.20
36.00 -2.07
37.00 -1.95
38.00 -1.86
39.00 -1.76
40.00 -1.65
41.00 -1.57
42.00 -1.43
43.00 -1.37
44.00 -1.27
45.00 -1.18
46.00 -1.09
47.00 -1.08
48.00 -1.05
49.00 -1.03
50.00 -1.01
51.00 -0.98
52.00 -0.93
53.00 -0.88
54.00 -0.87
55.00 -0.86
56.00 -0.85
57.00 -0.83
58.00 -0.80
59.00 -0.77
60.00 -0.75
61.00 -0.74
62.00 -0.73
63.00 -0.72
64.00 -0.66
65.00 -0.63
66.00 -0.61
67.00 -0.55
68.00 -0.52
69.00 -0.48
70.00 -0.45
71.00 -0.44
72.00 -0.39
73.00 -0.34
74.00 -0.28
75.00 -0.20
76.00 -0.15
77.00 -0.09
78.00 -0.04
79.00 -0.02
80.00 0.00
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post #37 of 120 Old 01-13-2008, 01:50 PM
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Have you considered the Carlsbro power line amps ?
around 2000 w Bridged and almost bullet proof.

After reading the info from the earlier post around the
ep2500 frying drivers, personally i dont think i will risk losing some jl 13w 6 's i'm using for my new diy subs.

The qsc 's sound very nice but also twice the price.
Not sure if you get the Carlsbros over in the states, but they are great amps and good value for money.

I ve had two before and are very powerful, sound great and reliable.

Always wondered why the ep2500 was so cheap,
after all you get what you pay for ?

Good luck with the build, let us all know how it turns out.
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post #38 of 120 Old 01-13-2008, 02:08 PM
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very nicely done!!!

couple of suggestions:

1. Get yourself a DEQ2496 to help you with EQing, and double work as a L/T circuit as KGveteran suggested, in case you wanna boost up the low end.

2. dont know what your room looks like from behind, but have you considered doing one of them up front (in front of TV or similar) and one of them behind seating position (nearfield)? you could be in for very nice surprise!

love the work...well done.
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post #39 of 120 Old 01-13-2008, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I ran a test tone cd, 10hz to 80hz, I entered the corrected values, and the fr seems strange. I wonder if the tones are all burned at the same db levels?
Here is a graph taken from listening position. I started off at 10hz @ 80db, so corrected to 90.5 db, and took the readings, but it does not seem right?
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post #40 of 120 Old 01-13-2008, 02:18 PM
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That's a pretty flat FR. Though I the scale is pretty large. I would use 60-120 dB instead to make the small details show up better.
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post #41 of 120 Old 01-13-2008, 02:22 PM
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Are you using the digital meter or analog? those correction tables are for the analog, the digital from what understand is completely different down low.
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post #42 of 120 Old 01-13-2008, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I am using a Galaxy cm-140 meter.
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post #43 of 120 Old 01-13-2008, 03:10 PM
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Gotcha, I just saw that, must have skimmed that earlier.
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post #44 of 120 Old 01-13-2008, 04:27 PM
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Although some have had problems running EP2500 it has always been pro audio, those labs in the first post run speakers with a nominal impedance of 3 (or is it 6) ohms meaning maybe those EP's were running a briged 3ohm load... No wonder they heated up, clipped and fried the labs! Alothugh i know it state a nominal impedance of 4ohm then those labs are not runnig LAB 12 inchs because they are a 6ohm load meaning 3ohm per cabs. Lab subs are alos recognised to be a hard sub on amps (more so cheaps amps like the EP2500)

I had a look but i couldnt find it but there is a thread on power amps over at Pro Sound Web and the general rule for stage work is that a briged 4 ohm load is to be avioded, only when there isnt an alternative shoud it be used. A 2 ohm load per channel on an amp is less stress than a briged 4ohm load

Regardless a EP2500 should be fine for your purpose

Edit: Import Racer... Provided you have enough headroom (as in the amp will drive to xmax without clipping) the EP2500 will be fine for powering jl 13w although the Jl driver also have a lower nominal impedance so you will need to make sure the briged load isnt lower than 4ohm, despite what some thing only high grade pro amps will survive 4ohm briged loads at high levels...
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post #45 of 120 Old 01-13-2008, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1161979 View Post

A 2 ohm load per channel on an amp is less stress than a briged 4ohm load

So a 2ohm load per channel is less stress than a 2 ohm load per channel (4 ohm bridged)??????????

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post #46 of 120 Old 01-13-2008, 10:12 PM
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Actually the EP did test better when the amp channels were split, bridged it didn't output as much power. There is some truth to his statement, I know in pro audio even some well designed amps have a hard time running a 4ohm bridged load on sub duty.
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post #47 of 120 Old 01-14-2008, 05:55 AM
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I think when you're driving so many drivers like in this design he will have little difficulty.

I'll bet dollars to donuts those drivers @ 10hz producing 110db at the listening position don't move more than 5/8th of an inch Peak to peak, more probably less than that.

Can the mains keep up is the next question. That mid bass is a real killer to produce when paired with those SMS (Super Monster Subs).

All in all this is a well exicuted design which should give years of listening pleasure.


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post #48 of 120 Old 01-14-2008, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post

Actually the EP did test better when the amp channels were split, bridged it didn't output as much power. There is some truth to his statement, I know in pro audio even some well designed amps have a hard time running a 4ohm bridged load on sub duty.

So an EP2500, with channel 1 and 2 on their own 2ohm VC on the SDX-15 will perform better than it would if each VC was wired in series and then the amp bridged to that single 4ohm load?

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post #49 of 120 Old 01-14-2008, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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10hz at 120db does moves the cones a lot though. lol

The amps do a good job at moderate levels, but when pushed, especially bellow 25hz, they either shut off, or trip the 15 amp breaker located at the back of the amp. I can listen @ 110db-120db at listening position, for extended periods and all is well, but go 6-10 more db and the amps will fail quickly.

The testing I have seen showed that bridged mode do better, only slightly, but a few watts better?
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post #50 of 120 Old 01-14-2008, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 100000watt View Post




Officially my favorite picture ever.

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post #51 of 120 Old 01-14-2008, 10:53 AM
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I envy this guy!

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post #52 of 120 Old 01-14-2008, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
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Officially my favorite picture ever.

hey, you can't cheat!........what if they weren't eD drivers?
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post #53 of 120 Old 01-14-2008, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

hey, you can't cheat!........what if they weren't eD drivers?

Well, I did sell them to him...so yeah, I guess that helps.

But it's also still 8 18" subs in two towers framing the rest of his HT...that's pretty badass regardless of where the speakers came from.

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post #54 of 120 Old 01-14-2008, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

So an EP2500, with channel 1 and 2 on their own 2ohm VC on the SDX-15 will perform better than it would if each VC was wired in series and then the amp bridged to that single 4ohm load?

According to chuck's tests, yes.
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post #55 of 120 Old 01-14-2008, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

So a 2ohm load per channel is less stress than a 2 ohm load per channel (4 ohm bridged)??????????

Yes, although i am not sure how to explain exactly why. From what i have read it is a limitation of the power supply which is under more stress when two channels are bridged.

To put it simply a bridged 4ohm load will be hotter, have increased harmonic distortion and be more inclined to clip than two 2ohm channels

By the way.... That sub is insane Its my wallpaper

P.S. my parents hate you because i have something similar in mind now having seen that, although probably with 15's cause 18's are hard to find in aus
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post #56 of 120 Old 01-16-2008, 08:09 AM
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I havent had a chance to hop in here and say anything, but man... This thing looks like it kicks ass..
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post #57 of 120 Old 01-16-2008, 08:38 AM
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Quote:


Yes, although i am not sure how to explain exactly why. From what i have read it is a limitation of the power supply which is under more stress when two channels are bridged.

To put it simply a bridged 4ohm load will be hotter, have increased harmonic distortion and be more inclined to clip than two 2ohm channels

I think if this is the case, something is not correlating, a non apples to apples configuration is used to manifest this.

2 ohm stereo and 4 ohm bridged is the same thing as far as the
amplifier is concerned. I've never seen a case where bridged mode caused more problems if you used it properly.

Distortion can be double because you are combining channels
but you also get 2x more power and distortion is all relative,
you can still be in the inaudible range in spite that it's higher.

Is this Chuck's test? if so;
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=855865&page=3

EP2500 2 ohm stereo power is 1094w/ch @ 2.34 ohms @1khz with
0.07% distortion.

EP2500 4 ohm bridged is 1957w @ 4.4 ohms @ 1khz with 0.046% distortion.

Some notes:

1. 2.34 ohm per channel load is the same as a 4.68 ohm bridge load. The bridge mode test is not exactly identical.

2. 4.4 ohm load is lower than a 4.68 ohm load and results will be a
little different. Power output in bridged mode is almost 2x, but
the bridge mode distortion is less than stereo mode. I would
expect the amp to generate about the same amount of heat.



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The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #58 of 120 Old 01-16-2008, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I wish I had the equipment to test my amps, I have a feeling that if ten EP 2500's were tested, each amp would have different readings, and the fact that they are "cheap" amps, the values could fluctuate significantly from amp to amp?
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post #59 of 120 Old 01-16-2008, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 100000watt View Post

I wish I had the equipment to test my amps, I have a feeling that if ten EP 2500's were tested, each amp would have different readings, and the fact that they are "cheap" amps, the values could fluctuate significantly from amp to amp?

What is significantly? Lets say 10% variation which is
probably a very high number. Lets say the 2kw amp
can be 1.8k - 2.2kw. That's ok. You won't see one 2kw
amp tested at 2kw, then another do 1kw, then another do
3kw, that will never happen.



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post #60 of 120 Old 01-16-2008, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Right, I would expect bridged output could vary 200 watts? I am just guessing, does anyone know of any tests like this? Same tester, same methodology, testing several amps of the same model?
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