Build Thread First Sub - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 62 Old 02-17-2008, 06:31 PM
Advanced Member
 
Jack Hidley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The 9.5ohm value for the driver is the Re or DC resistance of the driver. The amplifier doesn't see this. It sees the impedance of the driver. The impedance of the driver is the resistance but when driven by an AC waveform instead of a DC signal. Because of this, the impedance of the driver varies depending on the frequency of the AC signal being sent to it. When you look at the impedance curve for a driver in a box, that is what you are seeing. It will not be a flat line. It will usually have one or two peaks in the low end and rise as frequency goes up due to the voice coil inductance.

The good news is this. The impedance of the driver, at any frequency, will always be higher than the resistance (Re). So if you use the Re to calculate the load the amplifier sees, this will be the worst case situation for the amplifier. In reality if a driver has an Re of 8ohms, its average impedance in a closed box, measured from 20-200Hz is probably around 10-12ohms.

Any box modeling software will also model the speaker impedance.

Calculating how much power an amplifier can deliver to a loudspeaker is complicated. This is largely because the impedance of the speaker changes with frequency. Using four of these 10" woofers in parallel with an amplifier rated at 700W into 2ohms should work fine. This means the amplifier will probably be able to deliver around 125W per driver, maximum. You shouldn't have any problem with mechanical excursion limits.

Jack Hidley
Jack Hidley is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 62 Old 02-17-2008, 06:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mayhem13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 3,995
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Thanx again jack. Can't wait to get the drivers. Started cutting Ply today. Will probobly start ny own build thread since i sorta hijacked this guys.--SORRY.
mayhem13 is offline  
post #33 of 62 Old 02-18-2008, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zordac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
No problem mayhem. Thanks for the info Jack. WinISD shows the impedance curve very nicely. I actually have a peak at 35Hz and a trough at 20Hz. It shows my minimum impedance at 9.914 ohm at 190 Hz.

One of the many things that I do not know about WinISD is how it knows how the drivers are wired. I do not see any place to input that I want these wired in parallel as opposed to series.

Trying really hard to understand basic principles of speaker building . . . . failing miserably.
zordac is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 62 Old 02-18-2008, 12:15 PM
Advanced Member
 
Jack Hidley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I don't know how to show this in WinISD. If you have three drivers in parallel, just take the impedance value at any frequency and divide by three. If you have three drivers in series, jusat take each impedance value and multiply by three. Both of these work the same way for any number of drivers, as long as they are identical drivers.

Jack Hidley
Jack Hidley is offline  
post #35 of 62 Old 02-18-2008, 03:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mayhem13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 3,995
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Unibox gives you the option of up to four drivers in either parallel or series and compound which can be really helpfull. I use both and compare results. Sometimes they're really close and sometimes very different for the same configuration. I like unibox better for some reason.
mayhem13 is offline  
post #36 of 62 Old 02-22-2008, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zordac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
First, my drivers came in today. If I get a chance I will snap some pictures of them to share. In the mean time....

I need some help understanding 1st port resonance and port/vent design.

I have the same box parameters for two boxes. 11 cubic feet and tuned to 20Hz.

One box has a round 6'' port that is 12.85'' long. This gives a cross area of 28.27 sq inches. The 1st port resonance is 526.49 Hz.

Second box has a slot port 2''x18'' and 17'' long. This gives a cross area of 36 sq inches. The 1st port resonance is 397.50 Hz.

Now when I look at the Air Velocity graph, the slot port air velocity is quite a bit slower than the round port. The graph shows the slot port never gets over 68 ft/s while the round port goes to about 88 ft/s.

I like the idea of using the slot port to save on buying a 6'' port but I am not sure of the ramifications. Do you guys have any suggestions? Will I have any problems with this slot port? Is that 1st port resonance going to be an issue? What about the air velocity?

Trying really hard to understand basic principles of speaker building . . . . failing miserably.
zordac is offline  
post #37 of 62 Old 02-22-2008, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zordac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Here is a look at the surplus NHT drivers if anyone is curious.

They all appear to be in very good condition and the packaging they arrived in was very sturdy.




Trying really hard to understand basic principles of speaker building . . . . failing miserably.
zordac is offline  
post #38 of 62 Old 02-22-2008, 09:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mayhem13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 3,995
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 30
feel very secure looking at those-i guess i can expect the same when mine arrive. Don't understand the port resonance issue-haven't even considered it in my build-uhoh!
mayhem13 is offline  
post #39 of 62 Old 02-23-2008, 01:34 AM
Advanced Member
 
Jack Hidley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The first resonant frequency of the port is called the organ pipe resonance. It is only a function of the length of the port, nothing else. As the length of the port gets longer, the organ pipe resonance gets lower in frequency. If this frequency is too low, it could be excited by the air pressure in the cabinet. In a subwoofer, I would always make sure it was above 300Hz.

The other issue with this resonance is the Q of it. This is how loud the resonance is. The Q will go down if there is much damping material near the end of the port or the port has bends in it. It will down a lot more, if there is any damping material in the port itself. I would never add damping to the port unless it was absolutely necessary. It reduces the performance of the subwoofer system in every other way.

You can't compare the air velocity calculations for a round port to that of a slot shaped port, even if they have the same cross sectional area. The reason has to do with what is called boundary layer behavior. If you drive a subwoofer with a constant level sine wave, that has a round port:

The air velocity in the very center of the port will be highest.

The air velocity right next to the port wall/sides will be almost zero.

The air velocity at all other locations will be somewhere in between.

This has to do with the viscosity of air, which behaves as a compressible fluid. The air near the surface of the body barely moves due to friction between the air and the body. The farther away you get from the body, the faster the air moves.

With a slot loaded port, you have a longer perimeter dimension of the port, for a given cross sectional area than a round port has. So from boundary layer behavior you are going to have more area where air is moving at a lower average velocity. This means that you also must have an area in the middle of the port where the air velocity is much higher than average (and even higher than if it were a round port). The more differential velocity you have in the airflow in the port, the more turbulence you will have for a given volume velocity of air. So for a given drive level, you will have more port compression (nonlinearity) and therefore a higher chance of complete nonlaminar airflow resulting in audible noise (chuffing, whistle, etc).

Slot loaded ports are only built because they are cheap, make the cabinet slightly stiffer and take up baffle space in a more efficient manner so the overall baffle dimensions can be smaller. From an acoustics standpoint, they are inferior in every way.

Whatever program you are using to look at the port designs is over simplifying things. It is calculating an overall average air velocity in the port. It is just looking at the volume velocity of air and the port area. It is ignoring the port shape.

I would purchase 4" ABS pipe (this will really have a 3.7" ID or so). ABS pipe is cheap. Use one port per driver if possible. Get a 3/4" radius router bit. Mount the inside of the port to a small board also. Maybe a 5" disc. Then use the router bit to radius both the inside and outside of the port and wood. This will allow a lot more volume velocity through the port before the airflow separates and starts making noises.

Jack Hidley
Jack Hidley is offline  
post #40 of 62 Old 02-23-2008, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zordac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks Jack,

So we do not use ABS in our area. All of the home supply stores carry PVC. So I assume that Schedule 40 PVC 4'' pipe would work?

Trying really hard to understand basic principles of speaker building . . . . failing miserably.
zordac is offline  
post #41 of 62 Old 02-23-2008, 11:58 AM
Advanced Member
 
Jack Hidley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
There are two reasons I recommended ABS. It is black. PVC is white and much harder to paint over. ABS usually has thicker walls than PVC. When you add a radius with a router bit through the port and the wood, if the tube wall is thin, there won't be any glue goint left over between the tube and wood.

Jack Hidley
Jack Hidley is offline  
post #42 of 62 Old 02-23-2008, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zordac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
"PVC usually has thicker walls than PVC."

Do you mean ABS usually has thicker walls than PVC?

Trying really hard to understand basic principles of speaker building . . . . failing miserably.
zordac is offline  
post #43 of 62 Old 02-23-2008, 05:07 PM
Member
 
Warmon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
ABS also has a foam core - probably more acoustically dead than PVC. In our area, Lowe's sells it up to 4". HD doesn't carry it at all. You can get Quickcrete tubes at both and a lot of folks use that to get 6" and 8" ports.

Warmon -
Warmon is offline  
post #44 of 62 Old 02-27-2008, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zordac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Change of plans and more questions about ports.

So my plans have changed and it does not look like I will be building tables now. The sig-other and I have discussed things and here is what we have come up with.



Basically I have a wall. In the center of that wall is a fireplace with a mantel and gas logs. On both sides of the fireplace are closets that open into the opposite room. The subs would be mounted on either side of the fireplace with the box for the subs inside the closet. The subs would still be an 11 cu ft ported box but the box would go through the wall into the closet.

My sketch is out of proportion since the subs would only come up about 36'' on the wall while the mantel is actually nearly 5' tall.

The port questions:

Can the ports 'fire' into the closet or do they need to fire into the same room as the drivers?

If the ports are firing into the closet do I need to worry about port noise as much?

Anyone see a problem with this design?



After reading a couple of dozen other threads it appears that the answer is NO, the ports cannot fire into the closet. They need to fire forward in the same direction as the drivers.

New question then: How much of a ported subs sound comes from the port(s)?

Trying really hard to understand basic principles of speaker building . . . . failing miserably.
zordac is offline  
post #45 of 62 Old 02-28-2008, 12:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
Jack Hidley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The ports don't have to fire in the same direction as the drivers. They must fire into the airspace that the listener is in. If they don't, you won't be able to hear the sound from them.

At the port tuning frequency, all of the output comes from the port. Fig 3 in this link shows the port and woofer outputs from a speaker.

http://stereophile.com/floorloudspea...ex/index4.html

Jack Hidley
Jack Hidley is offline  
post #46 of 62 Old 02-28-2008, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zordac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks Jack,

Yeah, I am going to have a nice wooden wall plate on either side of my fireplace with 3 subs and 3 x 4'' ports recessed mounted into it.

With any luck, I will get started this weekend.

Trying really hard to understand basic principles of speaker building . . . . failing miserably.
zordac is offline  
post #47 of 62 Old 03-01-2008, 04:14 PM
Member
 
Warmon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey Zordac, are you mounting a flat screen over the mantle? Also, if that is a load bearing wall?... make sure you support it first and put a header in if so.

Warmon -
Warmon is offline  
post #48 of 62 Old 03-03-2008, 03:25 PM
Senior Member
 
AlexE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southern Cali, SD area
Posts: 438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ports are tuned and there to make sound. If they are pointed into a different air space you will miss out on it. At this rate you might think about an infinite baffle or a sealed enclosure <---my n00b-azz opinion, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
AlexE is offline  
post #49 of 62 Old 03-04-2008, 09:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kevin Haskins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,007
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post

The first resonant frequency of the port is called the organ pipe resonance. It is only a function of the length of the port, nothing else. As the length of the port gets longer, the organ pipe resonance gets lower in frequency. If this frequency is too low, it could be excited by the air pressure in the cabinet. In a subwoofer, I would always make sure it was above 300Hz.

The other issue with this resonance is the Q of it. This is how loud the resonance is. The Q will go down if there is much damping material near the end of the port or the port has bends in it. It will down a lot more, if there is any damping material in the port itself. I would never add damping to the port unless it was absolutely necessary. It reduces the performance of the subwoofer system in every other way.

You can't compare the air velocity calculations for a round port to that of a slot shaped port, even if they have the same cross sectional area. The reason has to do with what is called boundary layer behavior. If you drive a subwoofer with a constant level sine wave, that has a round port:

The air velocity in the very center of the port will be highest.

The air velocity right next to the port wall/sides will be almost zero.

The air velocity at all other locations will be somewhere in between.

This has to do with the viscosity of air, which behaves as a compressible fluid. The air near the surface of the body barely moves due to friction between the air and the body. The farther away you get from the body, the faster the air moves.

With a slot loaded port, you have a longer perimeter dimension of the port, for a given cross sectional area than a round port has. So from boundary layer behavior you are going to have more area where air is moving at a lower average velocity. This means that you also must have an area in the middle of the port where the air velocity is much higher than average (and even higher than if it were a round port). The more differential velocity you have in the airflow in the port, the more turbulence you will have for a given volume velocity of air. So for a given drive level, you will have more port compression (nonlinearity) and therefore a higher chance of complete nonlaminar airflow resulting in audible noise (chuffing, whistle, etc).

Slot loaded ports are only built because they are cheap, make the cabinet slightly stiffer and take up baffle space in a more efficient manner so the overall baffle dimensions can be smaller. From an acoustics standpoint, they are inferior in every way.

Whatever program you are using to look at the port designs is over simplifying things. It is calculating an overall average air velocity in the port. It is just looking at the volume velocity of air and the port area. It is ignoring the port shape.

I would purchase 4" ABS pipe (this will really have a 3.7" ID or so). ABS pipe is cheap. Use one port per driver if possible. Get a 3/4" radius router bit. Mount the inside of the port to a small board also. Maybe a 5" disc. Then use the router bit to radius both the inside and outside of the port and wood. This will allow a lot more volume velocity through the port before the airflow separates and starts making noises.

Excellent explanation Jack!

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
Kevin Haskins is offline  
post #50 of 62 Old 03-04-2008, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zordac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the advice guys.

After some exploratory drilling and measuring I have discovered that the mantel thing is not going to work. The closets that flank the fireplace actually go behind the mantel. So to make this work I would have to lose part of my mantel. Needless to say we are not willing to accept that.

So we are back to the drawing board. Negotiations with the girlfriend are still under way.

Trying really hard to understand basic principles of speaker building . . . . failing miserably.
zordac is offline  
post #51 of 62 Old 03-04-2008, 04:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
armystud0911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 4,421
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Good luck! I have seen some people make subs into half walls, if there is one in your room, knock it out and make it into a sub! Just thinking outside the box, if the won't work maybe some good furniture subs, like 3 large endtables (or 6 small end tables) or a big slim box to go behind the couch.
armystud0911 is offline  
post #52 of 62 Old 03-04-2008, 04:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
scientest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Memphis
Posts: 1,585
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by zordac View Post

After some exploratory drilling and measuring I have discovered that the mantel thing is not going to work. The closets that flank the fireplace actually go behind the mantel. So to make this work I would have to lose part of my mantel.

Not sure I understand why you'd have to loose part of the mantle? Just don't pop anything through the wall except where it is clear of the mantel. Even if the closets go, say 18" behind the mantle / fireplace there should still be some room on each side of the mantel that can have the drivers mounted into them and still end up in the closet?
scientest is offline  
post #53 of 62 Old 03-04-2008, 04:20 PM
Member
 
Warmon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by zordac View Post

So we are back to the drawing board. Negotiations with the girlfriend are still under way.

You have two nice corners there flanking the fireplace - a couple of triangular shaped down fired side tables with granite tops there would be real nice.

Warmon -
Warmon is offline  
post #54 of 62 Old 03-05-2008, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zordac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey scientist,

Yes, I could do an L shaped box. I have sketched that out to see what the impact would be. However, coming that far over toward the middle of the closet is unacceptable to my GF. As much as I would have liked to have built there I tend to agree with her on that point.

Trying really hard to understand basic principles of speaker building . . . . failing miserably.
zordac is offline  
post #55 of 62 Old 03-05-2008, 03:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
scientest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Memphis
Posts: 1,585
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Got ya. Basement? Attic?
scientest is offline  
post #56 of 62 Old 03-05-2008, 07:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mayhem13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 3,995
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Man, you were off to such a good start at the beginning of this thread that i went and bought 4 of these drivers myself for two 7 cuft end tables. Now i'm not so sure. Subs in a wall seems like a big compromise. You won't be able to account for room acoustics or adjust placement. I'm gonna suggest you rethink this and build some boxes. You did mention GF factor which is MUCH lower than WAF. You can always get another GF !
mayhem13 is offline  
post #57 of 62 Old 03-10-2008, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zordac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Again thank you guys all for your suggestions.

I am not sure if this is a good idea or not but here is what I am currently building.

I have 11' ceilings in my house.
I have a big empty space of wall above my entertainment center.

So I am building this box.



That will be mounted to the wall above my entertainment center.

I know this is not an optimal location but I have exhausted most other options. Or have at least exhausted myself trying to find a location that was acceptable to both me and my GF.

This box will be mounted to the wall and will be painted the same color as the wall. The subs will be inset about 3 inches so that they will not be seen. I can either point the subs up or down. Suggestions?

It is my plan to add both up and down lights to this box to add some softer lighting to the room. I also plan to hang art on the face of the box in the hope that this will make the art stand out. This will put the art about one foot off the wall on a platform with lights behind it.

In addition to making the art stand out I hope that this will make the sub box look more like an architectural piece rather than a sub hanging on the wall.

Trying really hard to understand basic principles of speaker building . . . . failing miserably.
zordac is offline  
post #58 of 62 Old 03-10-2008, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zordac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
One other thing. Since I am now only going to be using 3 subs in my living room. I will have 3 left over to go in my office. I can do whatever I want there so that will be my next build.

Trying really hard to understand basic principles of speaker building . . . . failing miserably.
zordac is offline  
post #59 of 62 Old 03-15-2008, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
zordac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So I got the first part of my wall box built today. And I test fit the subs. They fit very snuggly in the holes. The Jasper jig worked really well.



Since these NHT subs to not come with templates I thought I would post my hole measurements here. The outer ring I cut to 10'' diameter and the inner hole I cut to 9'' diameter. That leaves a 1/2'' lip to put screws through. The outer ring is 1/4'' deep and that lets the metal outer ring of the speaker sit flush with the surface of the wood.

Trying really hard to understand basic principles of speaker building . . . . failing miserably.
zordac is offline  
post #60 of 62 Old 03-15-2008, 04:34 PM
Advanced Member
 
Jack Hidley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The Excel sheet on the sale site lists the exact ID sizes for the thru hole and counterbore for all of the drivers.

Jack Hidley
Jack Hidley is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off