What sub would you build if size and budget were not a restriction?? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 48 Old 02-14-2008, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, I've always appreciated the advise and knowledge of the DIY crowd. I'm in the business but wouldn't know where to start when it comes to designing an incredible enclosure. I'm currently building my own personal Theater and would like to take DIY route instead of the commercial method. I'm a dealer of Velodyne, Sunfire, and Triad but I simply want more. I have room for 6 to 8 large enclosures around 11 cubes each that I can easily hide in the 4 corners of my Theater. I have 6 20 amp and 2 220 volt feeds to my equipment racks. Alls I need know is the ultimate enclosure/amplifier combination I can knock the socks of my manufacturer reps and collogues. I will serve great justice to whatever design you guys can help me come up with, we have a full woodworking shop to carry this out. Thanks Bob..
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post #2 of 48 Old 02-14-2008, 10:28 PM
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The Rl-p18 is one of our front runners for HT bass, however, it requires 20+ft per sub. Kevin Haskins of Exodus audio, was contemplating building a new world class 18" sub for around 1k. If he does build one, it will be the the new flagship HT sub driver, once held by the LMS-5400 by TC-Sounds.

If you are limited to 11ft each. The SDX-15 will work perfectly. For amperage, you could hook four up to a Face Audio f1200-ts or QSC3602plx. You could also do a lot of other things when it comes to power. It all depends on what you want to do.

Do you have a picture of your room?

YID DIY
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post #3 of 48 Old 02-15-2008, 01:39 PM
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I'd build two of these:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=989681

Four would be pretty sweet too. LOL
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post #4 of 48 Old 02-15-2008, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to give Kevin a call, unfortunately I'm ready to build my enclosures now so I'll see what he has to offer. The attached pic shows the front stage where I can locate 2 very large enclosures on the right and left side, but at the rear of the theater I can only afford 11 cubes each making this my limiting factor, or is it??
LL
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post #5 of 48 Old 02-15-2008, 05:03 PM
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I can see why you are choosing DIY.Not many commercial designs would do it. Multiple 18" would do it.Whats the distance to the back of the room or the last seat furthest from the screen........which will need to be wide as a mack truck!!

KG

The LLT guys will have you line both side walls with sono's if you let them

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post #6 of 48 Old 02-15-2008, 05:07 PM
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Quote:


I have 6 20 amp and 2 220 volt feeds to my equipment racks. Alls I need know is the ultimate enclosure/amplifier combination I can knock the socks of my manufacturer reps and collogues. I will serve great justice to whatever design you guys can help me come up with, we have a full woodworking shop to carry this out. Thanks Bob..

Quote:


Kevin Haskins of Exodus audio, was contemplating building a new world class 18" sub for around 1k. If he does build one, it will be the the new flagship HT sub driver

Quote:


The attached pic shows the front stage where I can locate 2 very large enclosures on the right and left side, but at the rear of the theater I can only afford 11 cubes each

Well without a limited budget and considering those facts, you could do all kinds of things. If the new flagship driver from Kevin becomes a reality, then you could do one per 11ft^3 with two of the PRs he has also proposed. You could probably power each one with something like a ~2000W, each on its own 20A circuit ideally. That would be far from cheap but very amazing.
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post #7 of 48 Old 02-15-2008, 05:07 PM
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CSS SDX 15 and/or Mach 5 Audio IXL18.4 two great choices.

The CSS SDX 15 would be my first choice, XBL motor ...30mm each way.Works great in around 11 cu. ft..


The Mach 5 would also be a strong candidate.

Dollar for dollar these are CHAMPS. They best direct competition easy. And I am not biased...I can get any driver I want.

SoundSplinter's RL-p 15 D2/D4 would also be a great choice. A bit more expensive.



BTW I have em'all. And have nothing but great things to say about the prodicts and the people who sell them.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #8 of 48 Old 02-15-2008, 05:24 PM
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with 80 cubes available, lets go with 16 Ed 19ov.2's with just 2 Crown IT 8000's? 30 more cubes and you could go Mach 5 IXL' 18.4's Around $12,000.00 for a pretty decent amount of bass.
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post #9 of 48 Old 02-15-2008, 05:36 PM
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lol...decent would be the most underrated statement of the century
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post #10 of 48 Old 02-15-2008, 05:38 PM
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I would call it decent, Bob wanted something to knock the socks off of people, and this won't do that, but it will shake their pants a little.
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post #11 of 48 Old 02-15-2008, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replies, I just got off the phone w/ Kevin and I'm going to build a few enclosure to audition. I probbably wont stop there as I can esily sell these enclosures if they dont do it for me.

As far as the room size goes its 35.5 x 24.4x 11. This will be a treated room, I even went as far to glue and screw plywood to the inside of the theater. All fabric and wood wall treatments w/ cover the walls and ceiling so I figured what the heck.

The furthest seat back is approx. 30 feet if that helps.
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post #12 of 48 Old 02-15-2008, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Ear, what would you honestly say your favorite enclosure is? I want an experience like no other, I commisioned a speaker manufacture that I do business w/ to build me the ultimate mains and rear surrounds and he came up w/ this. http://sourcespeaker.com/Bessel_Arra...op_700x413.jpg . I bought 9 of them I was so impressed.
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post #13 of 48 Old 02-15-2008, 06:54 PM
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9 mini line array's. Might as well match it up with 9 subwoofers! The Tempest-x subs from Exodus are good, but require a pretty big box, one which you could also put the Rl-p18 in. I will still back the SDX-15, not because I have two of them, but because of the enclosure size they perform in.

Had you set your veiwing wall forward 2-3ft, you could have built enclosures into that wall and had two arrays of Tempest-x subs in LLT's. (Or Fi Q18's, Rl-p18's or whichever you choose). But that's not an option.

YID DIY
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post #14 of 48 Old 02-15-2008, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Loonybomber, I can fit extremely large enclosures on the front stage to the left and the right side behind the 2 wing walls shown in the picture above. An enclosure size of 25"x35"x 8feet will fit behind these 2 walls. The only problem is building 2 matching enclosures in the rear of the theater. From my experience having subs located at the rear of theater helps huge for smooth response. I'm wondering if I'd do more harm than good if I had just 2 subs lacated at the rear corners and 6 located in the front corners for a total of 8 subs.
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post #15 of 48 Old 02-15-2008, 09:21 PM
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I'm all for identical subs (due to ease of integration) and multiple subs. In another thread I recommend he build for subs and place them around the room to smooth the response. I would be all for you placing 6 subs up front and 2 in the back as opposed to 8 up front and none in the back. It would be nice if you could place the 8 all along the room as the Klipsch white page? points out. I forget who wrote that paper, but it basically says the more subs you have spread around, the smoother your in room response will be in different positions.

It's very easy to place all your subs in one corner and then eq the response flat at your listening position, but as you get up and walk across the room you will be presented with standing waves. Or even worse, everyone else in the room may be sitting in a "hot" or "dead" spot. Yikes.

YID DIY
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post #16 of 48 Old 02-15-2008, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Trinanes View Post

Ear, what would you honestly say your favorite enclosure is? I want an experience like no other, I commisioned a speaker manufacture that I do business w/ to build me the ultimate mains and rear surrounds and he came up w/ this. http://sourcespeaker.com/Bessel_Arra...op_700x413.jpg . I bought 9 of them I was so impressed.

Now this is a center channel !

Honestly, I would use a dozen ACOUPOWER 18" driven by half a dozen iTech 4000 or...6000 power amps. Here you need a bit more space but for output...hold on to yer foundation.

But in the real world,space is limited so... eight EBS subs will have to help my other subs. Modesty,out the window.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #17 of 48 Old 02-16-2008, 07:57 AM
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I'd use a total of four Aurasound NS18s in two 40cuft concrete enclosures.
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post #18 of 48 Old 02-16-2008, 08:07 AM
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The NS18-992-4A are nice, but they need a pretty large enclosure, and 4 would not cut it.
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post #19 of 48 Old 02-16-2008, 08:21 AM
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20 cuft/driver is sufficient. 96db (at 1 watt) flatness down to 16hz before any processing or room gain, is quite decent wouldn't you say.
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post #20 of 48 Old 02-16-2008, 08:25 AM
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No, 140db down to 16hz is decent.
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post #21 of 48 Old 02-16-2008, 08:43 AM
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Budget not a restriction? Here's a decent starter:

http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm
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post #22 of 48 Old 02-16-2008, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I guess I'll retract the budget statement. Its definateley not unlimited but I'm willing to go pretty far. If I wasnt going the DIY route I'd be installing multiple high end commercial subs that cost plenty.

While I got the attention of you guys, have any of you ever used pro amps to drive your main and surrounds?
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post #23 of 48 Old 02-16-2008, 02:16 PM
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An 8 or 16 driver IB array using the Tempest-X.

Which really is to say, either two or four times as many drivers.

Which is completely silly, since my room is like 9x13.

Actually, I'd like to add a Thigpen to fill out the bottom end a bit.

C
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post #24 of 48 Old 02-16-2008, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Trinanes View Post

While I got the attention of you guys, have any of you ever used pro amps to drive your main and surrounds?

There's quite a few guys on here doing that; Armystud and Thylanter just to name a few. I am planning on doing that later when I get my mains built and purchase an Emotiva preamp. Money/performance dollar just can't be beat. Sure you could buy some Cinenova's but you'll spend some $$$ May as well just buy some QSC PLX's or even Behringer ep2500's if you want to save a few bucks.

YID DIY
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post #25 of 48 Old 02-16-2008, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danke View Post

Budget not a restriction? Here's a decent starter:

http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm

It seemed we were over due for someone else to throw that guy in one of our threads. Whatever, the problem with LLT's is that you can't get them DEEP. If you could do an IB of sort, that would really be best, are you familiar with infinite baffle subs? in all honesty, even 2 of the fi IB 18's would so thoroughly trounce all commercial options it would be shameful. Now Nick claims that 4 are all anyone would ever need, he may be right to some extent but I have a feeling some of us would crave more, so if doing an ultimate sub, do 16 Fi IB 18's can even give that horn loaded sub a run for its money. That way you can play deeper and cleaner, the horn may have a little less thd, but these subs have so much output on tap that before you even see them move, you have to turn them down.
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post #26 of 48 Old 02-16-2008, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post

so if doing an ultimate sub, do 16 Fi IB 18's can even give that horn loaded sub a run for its money. That way you can play deeper and cleaner, the horn may have a little less thd, but these subs have so much output on tap that before you even see them move, you have to turn them down.

The guy claims a sensitivity of 120db @ 1w/1m and the capability of 160db. Even at 2 watts, it'd put most systems to shame. But this is neither here nore there.

YID DIY
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post #27 of 48 Old 02-16-2008, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post

It seemed we were over due for someone else to throw that guy in one of our threads. Whatever, the problem with LLT's is that you can't get them DEEP. If you could do an IB of sort, that would really be best, are you familiar with infinite baffle subs? in all honesty, even 2 of the fi IB 18's would so thoroughly trounce all commercial options it would be shameful. Now Nick claims that 4 are all anyone would ever need, he may be right to some extent but I have a feeling some of us would crave more, so if doing an ultimate sub, do 16 Fi IB 18's can even give that horn loaded sub a run for its money. That way you can play deeper and cleaner, the horn may have a little less thd, but these subs have so much output on tap that before you even see them move, you have to turn them down.


Unfortunateley an IB is no doable, I wish I had the space needed. It seems like a LLT is going to be the ticket. I just ordered a Mach5 IXL 18.4 that I'll audition, anyone have any enclosure they would recommend. I definately want to have a slot port because it will fit into the design of the bar. I'd like to pick up a few more subs do comparisons w/, I currently have a Velodyne DD18 that I will be able to A/B against, any recommendations.. How much do the ACOUPOWER 18" go for, and were do you reommend to purchase from.

Thanks for the help..
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post #28 of 48 Old 02-16-2008, 08:23 PM
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Quote:


While I got the attention of you guys, have any of you ever used pro amps to drive your main and surrounds?

This is not mine. It would get some attention in your home theater.





The storm was gone, but dark clouds still hung around
The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #29 of 48 Old 02-17-2008, 01:38 AM
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When are you gonna put your amps in a rack so we can see them? Make sure you have the crest pro's in there.
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post #30 of 48 Old 02-17-2008, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

The guy claims a sensitivity of 120db @ 1w/1m and the capability of 160db. Even at 2 watts, it'd put most systems to shame. But this is neither here nore there.

Your right it does put most systems to shame, so would 16 IB18's though. I'd trade that 160dB of output for a naturally smooth, non horn loaded enclosure though. 140dB is enough for me.


I would really recommend you just get an 8 pack of tempests and put them all in sono's or huge boxes and never look back. You could power them with a pair of those face audio amps, or maybe just one of them, whatever works out. If you put each driver in a 15 cubic foot enclosure and tuned them all to 11Hz, they only need about 400 watts each to reach their full potential. You'd have 122dB at 10Hz without room gain and 128dB at 20Hz. That's a lot.
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