Are any of you backyard enthusiasts watching movies with surround sound? I'd be very interested in hearing about the equipment you are using. I'm trying to figure out how to get surround sound out of a PA system I've used to watch UFC/Boxing with friends and am stumped. I've been running a Roku 4 HDMI to a digital audio decoder. From the decoder I run an HDMI to the projector and then I've run the surround sound from the RCA jacks on the decoder (L-C-R-LR-RR-SUB) to a Behringer MMX882. From the Behringer outputs I run to a couple amplifiers out to the speakers. So far I've only been able to get stereo from the speakers. I'm wondering if I need to replace the decoder with an actual 5.1 receiver with HDMI inputs. Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.

If you're getting stereo from a 5.1 source, something is setup incorrectly or your equipment work doesn't support it. You need to understand where you're decoding. Your post is somewhat vague so if you don't mind I'll ask some questions.

You're using a PA. Do you only have two speakers?

What kind of "Decoder" are you using? I would normally refer to that unit as an "HDMI audio extractor". Again, you need to verify that you're actually decoding here.

Are you using the Behringer MMX882 in the "Split" mode? That is 6 channels in and 6 channels out?

You've said that your using "a couple of amplifiers out to the speakers". How many is "a couple". You would need 5 discreet channels of amplification and a powered subwoofer or 6 discreet channels of amplification with a passive subwoofer.

The workflow connection would or should look like:

- Audio/Video Source HDMI > Decoder/Audio Extractor
- HDMI Audio Extractor > HDMI to projector
- HDMI Audio Extractor > 5.1 RCA L/C/R/LR/RR/SUB > MMX882 channels 1/2/3/4/5/6
- MMX882 channels 1/2/3/4/5/6 > Amplifiers 1/2/3/4/5 and Powered Subwoofer
- Amplifiers 1/2/3/4/5 > L/C/R/LR/RR Speakers

The "Decoder" or "Audio Extractor" needs to be set to 5.1 output.

Right now, if what you're calling a "Decoder" is really an HDMI Audio Extractor, you would need to be doing the audio decoding at the source or in your case the Roku 4. AFAIK the Roku 4 will pass through various audio codecs but it does not decode.


In answer to the rest of your question... Yes, I use a 5.2 system outside for our backyard theater. I use a Denon E300 5.1 AVR and a Sony Blu-ray player as well as Zidoo/DuneHD media players. The equipment is mounted in a 6 unit portable Gator rack case. I also use an IOGEAR wireless HDMI connection to feed cable TV to the system. For speakers I use 4 Polk Audio M3II speakers mounted on tripods, a Klipsch RC 62II center channel, and two Velodyne Subwoofers.

I don't mind at all!



Here's my speaker setup:
FR-FC-FL: 3 Rockville RSG12.4 Dual 12" w. 3 bullet tweeters + 1 compression horn - 4-ohm speakers.
Surrounds: 2 Rockville RSG12.4 Single 12" w. 3 bullet tweeters + 1 compression horn 4-ohm speakers.
Subwoofer: Earthquake FF12 12" Active 400-watt



I've attached photos of the front and back of the decoder (if that's what it really is).


I've tried both ways. Initially I ran cables from the decoder to the individual input for each of the 6 needed channels. When that didn't work (I suspect I wasn't doing something correctly) I switched the decoder to 2-channel mode and ran cable only to the main input on the MMX882. Then it appeared my outputs to the speakers were all in stereo which makes sense given the switch to 2-channel.


I have 2 amplifiers:
Rockville RPM45 4-channel mixer/amplifier w. USB/EQ/Effects/phantom RMS power 300W
Rockville RPA8 2 channel amplifier




That's the setup I've had without the 5 amplifiers.


I've heard that the center speaker has to match the FR and FL.



Thanks a million for your help!

Attached Thumbnails

   

Looks good.




Yea, that appears to be a simple audio extractor which means that all it does is to work as a break out box. HDMI in and the box will tap the audio stream and supply the output signal to the other connection types. It will not decode the various audio codecs from a bitstream. If your Roku does not output 5.1/7.1 decoded, that box will not decode the bitstream. You'll only get stereo as that's what the Roku is sending.

There's no name brand so I can't find a manual to verify. A quick search turns up pictures of what appears to be the same unit sold under different brand names. If you have a manual, it maybe showing something different but that's what it looks like to me.


The Rockville RPM45 4-channel mixer/amplifier appears to be a type of integrated amplifier, a combination pre-amp and amplifier. Using the MMX882 is somewhat redundant, a pre-amp feeding a pre-amp and then the amplifier section.

Rockville RPA8 2 channel amplifier is a conventional amplifier with gain controls and is a better match with the MMX882.


So the problem appears to be that you have nothing that will decode a bitstream signal to produce 5.1/7.1 signal.

I usually recommend extractors made by J-Tech as they are reliable and reasonably priced. The do make a decoder but it will only decode the lossy formats and not the HD audio codecs like Dolby TrueHD etc. It also has an MSRP of $299 and you can find it for less with a quick search. It looks like what you already have, but if you look closely you will see a mode switch that will toggle through the various surround formats.

https://jtechdigital.com/product/hdm...dolby-decoder/



Honesty for the cost, you can pick up an AVR over at Accessories 4 less for ~$200 or less that will do the job for you with fewer connections and perhaps headaches.

https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...umber_channels[]=5





Well, that's what they say... But no, it's not really necessary. Especially with some of the better room correction systems that are available today. The center channel does a lot of the heavy lifting for a movie surround setup. I use the Klipsch center as it uses a wave guide type tweeter which helps with the sound outdoors.

Your Rockville RSG12.4 speakers should do a great job for you.

Concerning my amplifiers, it looks like I don't have enough unless I can somehow get more than one signal out from the outputs to the speakers. Is it possible to get, for example, the FR signal from one output and the center from another on the other output?

I looked at the extractor you noted. Where would it fit in the line up? That said, I think I'll just get an AVR. I'll wait to hear your answer concerning the amps to decide whether I get a receiver that is also an amp.

I can't thank you enough for your help but thank you!

As far as a receiver, wouldn't it need to have at least one HDMI input if I'm using a Roku or would a toslink be sufficient?

Sorry, but your questions make me think that you don't have a good understanding of how the amplification works. Ergo, you might not have things connected correctly.

Each surround channel requires it's own amplifier channel as each surround channel has different information/sound steered to that speaker location.

For 5.1 you need 5 amplifier channels and 6 pre-amplifier channels. Five pre-amp channels go to the 5 amplifiers and 1 pre-amp channel to your powered subwoofer.

You have enough amplification with your two units. A 2 channel plus the 4 channel equals 6 channels so you have one left over. You can make what you have work but it's a lot of cables/connections to manage. So 6 cables out from the extractor RCA outputs, 5 to the MMX88 and one to the subwoofer. Then you need 5 cables from the MMX882 to the amplifiers. Then there is the AC power cables from each device etc. You also have to deal with a lot of different connection types, RCA HDMI, XLR, etc., and you still need a decoder or a source that will decode the audio for 5.1/7.1.

An AVR is going to just have the Roku or source plugged in and your good to go.

All of the AVR's that I linked to have at least 4-5 HDMI inputs and one HDMI out for the display/projector.

You always want to use the HDMI inputs for the best connection with regards to audio. There was a thing called the HDMI Analog Sunset that kicked in in 2011 and became final in 2013. It was a phase out of analog connections for HD audio/video. The higher level audio codecs are not supported on toslink or analog connections.

You're absolutely right!


Ok, good to know on the amplifiers. What you've described is what my thinking originally was but when the "decoder" didn't do what I thought it was supposed to do I began questioning. I'm now in the market for a receiver. I see a lot of receivers without the HDMI inputs. I'll steer clear of those and make sure the one I do get doesn't have the HDMI analog. Thanks again!!`

You're making me worry... Any current Audio/Video Receiver (AVR) made today will have HDMI inputs and outputs. It's the world wide industry standard now so I'm not sure what you're looking at.

Use the link below. Any of these will work for you and of course you can spend more for something bigger.

https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...umber_channels[]=5

LOL! No need to worry - you're helping me! I was actually looking at a few on Craigslist.


Could I use a receiver set up for 7.1 for 5.1?

Ah, OK... Understood and that's a great place to pick up a bargain.

Make sure to get something that supports HDMI 1.3 as a minimum. HDMI 1.4 would be better. HDMI 2.0 is current and HDMI 2.1 is around the corner.


I find Facebook Market Place a good place to shop as well.

Yes you can use a 7.1 no problem. You can set a 7.1 for 5.1 output. If you like you can also add the extra two speakers as well.

Ok, I bought the receiver. Now I have to figure out the wiring. Looks like I have to have dual banana clips to single XLR or TRS but I can't seem to find any such cables. Any suggestions?

Just so we're on the same page...

What receiver did you buy and what do you want to connect? If you have an AVR and a Roku, it would simply be the Roku HDMI into the AVR and AVR speaker outputs to the speakers.

The Rockville RSG12.4 speakers appear to have a ¼" TS or a SpeakOn connection. You can use anyone of the connections, your choice. How long do you want the speaker cable (s) to be?


EDIT: For speaker cables, (50' long) order these and cut the ¼" TS jack off and connect to the AVR speaker binding posts or to a Banana plug and then to the AVR's speaker binding posts.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-2-pack...8AAOxyhodRujdU

I bought a Denon AVR-1911: https://cnet1.cbsistatic.com/img/uJa...9/34078971.jpg


I've attached a diagram as to what I was hoping to do. If it's possible to connect things as in the diagram I'd need 5 pair of banana clips. 1 pair would go to one pair of RCA. 5 pair to male TRS or male XLR. Thanks!

Attached Files

File Type: pdf

PATH1.pdf (32.0 KB, 6 views)

I think that perhaps I've not asked a very good question. Let me try again. My concern is whether I can run a wire from the Denon AVR 1911 to an amplifier input. As I understand it, the Denon is also an amplifier and my concern is whether I can run power to an already powered piece of equipment.

Based on your diagram it appears you intend to take the amplified signal from the speaker outputs on the 1911 and plug those into the input on the Rockville amps? No, that would be Bad(™).

You need an AVR/processor with preouts for the channels you wish to drive with the Rockvilles. Your 1911 is not equipped with such.

Okey-Dokey... The Denon AVR-1911 was/is a good find. It's also nice that it has the iPod support I think. I also use a Denon AVR that has this feature and I use my iPod for music before the movie starts

So, you're going to retire your mixer and amplifier's, they can be packed away.

The AVR-1911 you bought is going to do all the work. It's a pre-amp/mixer/decoder/amplifier all in one box. It will also simplify the wiring connections.

Your Roku unit will connect to the AVR-1911 via the HDMI output of the Roku to any of the HDMI inputs on the AVR-1911 marked BD - DVD - SAT/CBL - GAME. You will use the HDMI output on the AVR-1911 labeled MONITOR to feed the HDMI input of your display/projector.

For your speakers... You will use the speaker outputs on the AVR-1911 to connect to the speakers. You can attach the speaker wire to the AVR-1911 using banana plugs, duel banana plugs, or just the bare wire.

If you use bare wire, the speaker binding post on the AVR-1911 unscrews to reveal a small hole in the binding post. You can slip or thread the bare wire into the hole and screw the binding post cap back down to secure the wire. Some people will use a spade connector on the wire. You would also unscrew/screw the binding cap on the spade connector.

The banana plugs would attach by plugging into the binding post.

You can make up speaker wires or buy pre-made with either Speakon or ¼" jacks that can/will attach the speaker wire to your speakers.

I'm going to assume you will use 50' length wire (because that's what I use outside).

Amazon has some 12AWG wire that comes with a Speakon connection on one end and a ¼" TS jack on the other end. They come 2 units in a pack for $35. You will have a difficult time buying wire and connections for less money for a DIY solution. Since they come 2 in a package and you only need 5 cable runs, you'll have a spare and that's not a bad thing.

You can cut off the Speakon or the ¼" TS jack, your choice, and use the other end for connection to the speaker. I would use the Speakon connection as it's a little more secure connection and much less risk for a "short" if the wire gets accidentally disconnected from the speaker box.

And you need an RCA subwoofer cable. That will connect from the AVR's Subwoofer/Pre-Out to your powered subwoofer input.

Wire everything up and you're good to go!

Here's the link to the cables at Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Yoico-Profess...s%2C158&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-...NrPXRydWU&th=1

b curry


Wow! Thank you! That took some time and I greatly appreciate it! I'm wondering if the Denon will have enough power for the 5 passive speakers. As you saw the speakers are quite large and the viewing area will sometimes have as many as 200 people. I'm wondering if I might be better off to get a preamplifier/process like smcmillan2 mentioned and then power the speakers with the separate amps. I can find a lot of used preamps/processors for not too much $ but finding one with the HDMI inputs and outputs is going to cost a bit more.

I'm glad I asked before hooking the receiver to the amps! Thanks!


Any suggestions for a good preamp/processor with the HDMI inputs and outputs and also the audio pre-outs for $200 or less? Used is fine for me.

Your RSG12.4s are rated 99dB @ 1w/1m which is a very high sensitivity speaker (truthful specs? That I do not know). As b curry suggests I would hook them up to the 1911 and see if they produce the levels you are after.

If not, then look into a preamp. I don't use separates so I don't have any suggestions in that arena.

I think it will be fine. I've no experience with the RSG12.4 speakers but the sensitivity rating is 99dB 1 watt/1 meter. That simply means that they are quite efficient assuming the published spec's are correct.

The Denon AVR-1911 is rated at ~100 watts per channel. You would have to double the power to have the possibility of a 3dB gain in volume and that change is de minimis. In other words you would need 5 - 200 watt amplifiers and the gain in volume would not really be noticeable. You would need a 10dB change in SPL (sound pressure level) to realize a perceived change in volume and that would require 10x the power or 5 - 1000watt amplifiers.

My backyard theater is 5.2 surround using smaller speakers and an AVR with 25% less power on a 1 acre lot and I've no trouble pissing off the neighbors.

You won't find a separate pre-pro new for $200 that will match what the AVR-1911 will do. Maybe used, but I kind of doubt it. As mentioned an AVR with pre-outs, used, maybe your best choice for ~$200 if you want to go with separate amplifiers.

I would hook it all up and try it out. If you really feel you need more volume, come back with your findings. But be prepared to spend some money and a possible a change of speakers.