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post #1 of 14 Old 01-13-2020, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Covered Patio build

I am having a covered patio built in my back yard. It'll be a 12'x26' area open on 2 side. The ceiling will be about 10' high at the highest area. I'm trying to plan the wiring of some type of screening device (TV or Projector), radio/ music player, and speakers now so they can be done before the ceiling is installed.

I am planning to run everything off a Denon or Yamaha receiver (open to recommendation). Id prefer a receiver that can stream music from apps. I have ethernet line available if needed in that area and would like to have an HD Tuner for local radio channels since we have a few good ones in the Houston area.

I need to select speakers and don't know what to buy. Would something like 4 Klipsch AW-650 or similar be too much for that area. I know that I can just turn the volume down but would it be better to just get 4 smaller size speakers like Atrium4's and add a subwoofer?

I don't want to blast all my neighbors but want good audio for holiday celebrations like 4th of July and such. I don't want to over power it but also don't want to under power it. I tend to over think things and don't have much knowledge in the audio video world. I have Best Buy coming out to do a consultation but figured I may get some better advise here.

I was planning on a TV mounted on the wall but also thought of the option of a projector but not sure if I would lose the option of Netflix and similar. Does anyone have any advise on this? Is there any advantage to having a projector other than a really large screen?

If anyone is willing to share some advise I would definitely appreciate it.
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post #2 of 14 Old 01-14-2020, 08:04 AM
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...
If anyone is willing to share some advise I would definitely appreciate it.
Anthony, over all sounds like a good plan. The Polk or Klipsch speakers will be fine. I would suggest that you use a 2-way speaker with at least a 5"-6" main driver however. So the Klipsch AW-650 works and maybe step up to the Atrium 5 or 6 if you go with the Polk's.

Another really great speaker for outdoors is made by a company called OSD or Outdoor Speaker Depot. They are a growing company and in transition and changing their name to OSD or Optimal Speaker Design. They have some very nice outdoor units with better prices too. They really are very good sounding, have a 30 day free trial, and I would put them toe to toe with the Klipsch and Polk outdoor units. Take a look at the AP640, AP650, and AP670. Here's their website:
https://www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com/patiospeakers.html

I set up a backyard theater in the summer and use a 5.2 surround speaker setup. I would suggest you do the same or maybe even 7.1 as you have the advantage of a covered area. You'll enjoy 5.1/7.1 much more than using only 4 speakers and get better, more even coverage for music.

You can use a Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer, etc., your choice as I think they will all do the job you want to do. I use a Denon that I got refurbished from Accessories4less for my out door setup. I used to do some work in Houston in the Holmes Road area and out in Rosenburg as well and I know you have some killer humidity to deal with outside. So I'm suggesting not spending full price on a unit as the outdoor weather can be a little hard on equipment. You'll be able to get a nice AVR that will do what you want for ~$200. Here's a Link: https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ceivers/1.html

As for the display... If you've got sunlight coming in during the day, go with a 75"-85" LED/LCD TV. Projection doesn't work with sunlight. However there's nothing like projection on a big screen at night so maybe consider going with both. You can add a portable 12' projection screen and a projector that will do a very good job for ~$800-$900.
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post #3 of 14 Old 01-14-2020, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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So I spoke with Outdoorspeakerdepot and Accessories4less today and both of them steered me towards 4 8" 2 way speakers for my patio. Either the Canton885 or OSD 840WRS both are outdoor rated speakers that are ceiling mount. OSD recomended running an amp with there nero link to stream music and run the tv through that. Accessories4less recommended the Denon DRA800. It seems that I would get more features with the Denon so I will probably lean that way with the Canton speakers unless someone thinks the OSD 840WRS are a better deal for the price. Am I correct in assuming you can play both zones at the same time on the DRA800 so I would have two speakers as zone 1 and the other two as zone 2?
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post #4 of 14 Old 01-14-2020, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony Bish View Post
So I spoke with Outdoorspeakerdepot and Accessories4less today and both of them steered me towards 4 8" 2 way speakers for my patio. Either the Canton885 or OSD 840WRS both are outdoor rated speakers that are ceiling mount. OSD recomended running an amp with there nero link to stream music and run the tv through that. Accessories4less recommended the Denon DRA800. It seems that I would get more features with the Denon so I will probably lean that way with the Canton speakers unless someone thinks the OSD 840WRS are a better deal for the price. Am I correct in assuming you can play both zones at the same time on the DRA800 so I would have two speakers as zone 1 and the other two as zone 2?
Yes, that's correct.

As for the speakers, It's a jump ball based on spec's. You would need to hear them side by side to tell the difference.

You do realize that the speakers they are suggesting are very different than the Klipsch and Polk unit you asked about? The Klipsch and Polk units are box type speakers as are the ones that I suggested. The Canton 885 and OSD 840WRS are both box less units that mount into a hole that you will need to cut into your ceiling.
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post #5 of 14 Old 01-14-2020, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes I know there different styles. I think I would prefer the more concealed look of the ceiling mount speakers as long as the sound quality is still good. I’ll probably order everything this Friday besides the Tv. Is there anything missing besides the HDMI and speaker wire that anyone would suggest to me?
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post #6 of 14 Old 01-14-2020, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony Bish View Post
Yes I know there different styles. I think I would prefer the more concealed look of the ceiling mount speakers as long as the sound quality is still good. I’ll probably order everything this Friday besides the Tv. Is there anything missing besides the HDMI and speaker wire that anyone would suggest to me?

I would question why you're using a stereo receiver with broadcast/cable TV, Netflix, etc. which are all using multichannel surround formats?



EDIT: I would point out that unless you're stuck on a 2 channel receiver (the Denon DRA-800H), you could use the Denon AVR-X1600H for ~ the same price.

The AVR-X1600H will do everything the DRA-800H will do plus add 5 additional amplifier channels, room correction/bass management software, and the possibility to use/support multichannel audio codecs used in DVD/Bluray players, Netflix type streaming, and broadcast TV.

Last edited by b curry; 01-15-2020 at 08:10 AM.
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post #7 of 14 Old 01-15-2020, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I kind of wondered that myself but figured there was a reason he recommended the 800H. I see that their are quite a bit more features in the X1600H.

Im assuming the speakers I referenced will work for my front channels but will they also work for my rear surround channels?
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post #8 of 14 Old 01-15-2020, 10:11 AM
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I kind of wondered that myself but figured there was a reason he recommended the 800H. I see that their are quite a bit more features in the X1600H.

Im assuming the speakers I referenced will work for my front channels but will they also work for my rear surround channels?

Yes, with regards to the speakers. But you will be lacking a center channel speaker. The center channel is typically where most of the dialogue and vocal cue's come from and is perhaps the most important speaker used, especially during a move. The left, right, and surrounds add ambiance and the sense of movement as the sound from an action object on screen moves around. For sports on TV, the surround channels often pick up the crowd noise giving you a sense of being in the arena/stadium.

The AVR-X1600H can be set to create what's called a phantom center channel where stereo imagining creates the impression of a center channel. The success of this possibility is going to depend on speaker placement relative to seating positions.

I'm assuming that your structure is some kind of open Gazebo, Pavilion, or Pergola and I understand your aesthetics concern with placing the speakers concealed in the ceiling. Some things to consider...

Concealed ceiling speakers can work quite well for music distribution but for TV/movie watching, you will need to be somewhat sensitive to seating placement. The on wall type speaker like the Klipsch AW-650 will give you much more flexibility with sound distribution as they can be "aimed" at a specific area. As sound is some what directional, the ceiling mounted units will be "aimed" at the floor and you will depend on somewhat reflected sound vs. direct projection of an on wall unit.

Either way, I would suggest rethinking and look at a minimum of 5 speaker for center channel support and a subwoofer and something like the Denon AVR-X1600H.

Another multi-channel AVR unit to consider is the Denon AVR-S740H. It gives up almost nothing compared to the Denon AVR-X1600H and comes in at a much lower price point.
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post #9 of 14 Old 01-15-2020, 10:24 AM
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You do realize that the speakers they are suggesting are very different than the Klipsch and Polk unit you asked about? The Klipsch and Polk units are box type speakers as are the ones that I suggested. The Canton 885 and OSD 840WRS are both box less units that mount into a hole that you will need to cut into your ceiling.
In ceiling main speakers will preclude the possibility of implementing ATMOS "height" speakers.
Its not important if your focus is on music but if this is moving towards an outdoor home theater you may want to keep that option open. If that's a possibility then consider pre-wiring where any such speakers might be placed.

If you DO go with the OSD 840WRS you may want to consider placing them where they would work for ATMOS and then you can re-purpose them if you ever wanted to switch to mains/surrounds placed closer to ear level front back and (or) sides.

"You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it means."

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Last edited by smdelaney; 01-15-2020 at 10:25 AM. Reason: typo
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post #10 of 14 Old 01-15-2020, 10:43 AM
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I would add with regards to a subwoofer...

Sound produced at subwoofer frequencies is omni-directional, especially in an outdoor environment, and is not quite as critical with regards to placement. You can mount a subwoofer in the ceiling as well.

You can use something like this and of course you can spend more and there are other alternatives.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...oofer--300-639

https://www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com/lo8100walowp.html

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...yABEgJQBPD_BwE



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post #11 of 14 Old 01-15-2020, 11:02 AM
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In ceiling main speakers will preclude the possibility of implementing ATMOS "height" speakers.
Its not important if your focus is on music but if this is moving towards an outdoor home theater you may want to keep that option open. If that's a possibility then consider pre-wiring where any such speakers might be placed.

If you DO go with the OSD 840WRS you may want to consider placing them where they would work for ATMOS and then you can re-purpose them if you ever wanted to switch to mains/surrounds placed closer to ear level front back and (or) sides.
Sure, but at this point he's been looking at a very simple 2 channel system. Apparently or perhaps not fully aware of the benefits of multi-channel audio. No problems with pre-wiring, and it's a good idea if that's your course for the future. And with a covered patio, Atoms speaker placement is for sure a possibility. But Atmos placement of in ceiling units is not going to support FL,C,FR positions very well.

As a mater of fact, I've set-up some Atmos configurations outdoors (5.2.4) and to be honest, the results are not near as dynamic as when used in an indoor environment. You more or less eliminate any room boundaries and nodes outdoors. In my experience, a simple 5.1 set-up outdoors preforms marginally better than the same 5.1 set-up indoors. The dispersion energy of two surrounds with lossless codec's found on UHD or Blu-ray is quite impressive.
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post #12 of 14 Old 01-15-2020, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Ive decided to stick with the Denon AVR-X1600H since I an get one from accessories4less for 349.99 with a 3 year warranty. I have actually come in a little under budget for this project so adding another speaker is not really an issue. If i went with the Klipsch AW-650 could I get a single Klipsch AW-650 and use that for the center channel? This wont be a theater type build but we will watch movies outside with the kids and obviously sporting events on TV but the main use will be for music. As for the powered woofer I will have a bar built in so i could easily mount one under that on a shelf.

I really appreciate all this advised guys. Im hoping to have all of this ordered by friday.
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post #13 of 14 Old 01-15-2020, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I dont know how to edit my last post but i meant using 2 pair of the Klipsch AW-650 and a single for the center channel.
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post #14 of 14 Old 01-15-2020, 12:38 PM
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I dont know how to edit my last post but i meant using 2 pair of the Klipsch AW-650 and a single for the center channel.
Sure that will work.

accessories4less has the Polk Atrium 6 and the OS70 as well. The POLK AUDIO OS70 is a great price and sounds good.

https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...rand_f&brand_f[]=POLK%20AUDIO


I would not rule out the OSD speakers. If you google "OSD speaker review" you're going to see a lot of good reviews for their products. They are an internet direct company, they aren't using a dealer distribution network, so the markup is not as high and they are able to offer maybe better value for comparable cost.

https://www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com/patiospeakers.html

The down side is almost all of these lower cost outdoor speakers are only sold in pairs so you're going to end up with a spare.

Last edited by b curry; 01-15-2020 at 12:42 PM.
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