bose freespace speakers conundrum: - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
  • 1 Post By b curry
  • 1 Post By b curry
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 Old 06-01-2020, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
j2048b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 10
bose freespace speakers conundrum:

so i am setting up a speaker system around my pool and for outdoor usage around the house:

i currently have 2 bose 51 freespace speakers AND 2 bose 360p series II speakers

i am running a simple sony amp str-dh710 that can power up to 7 channels and 1 or 2 subs

all im currently using are the 2 fronts and plan to run the rmeaining 2 speakers as speaker b fronts

what im confused about is that the bose 360's are 70 or 100 volt speakers so there are 8 wires coming from them

how would you connect the 360's?
here is the schematic for the wiring:
https://www.scribd.com/document/219982873/Ig-Fs360p-All

i was told 2 different ways to connect them:

use common as ground (-) and the xfrm as the positive (+)

OR

use the
common (-) and one of the colord wires (in this case 40 watt cable colored green) as the positive (+)


im confused which way would work the best as i do not have a 70 or 100 v amp...

any suggestions?
j2048b is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 Old 06-01-2020, 06:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 5,079
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1297 Post(s)
Liked: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2048b View Post
so i am setting up a speaker system around my pool and for outdoor usage around the house:

i currently have 2 bose 51 freespace speakers AND 2 bose 360p series II speakers

i am running a simple sony amp str-dh710 that can power up to 7 channels and 1 or 2 subs

all im currently using are the 2 fronts and plan to run the rmeaining 2 speakers as speaker b fronts

what im confused about is that the bose 360's are 70 or 100 volt speakers so there are 8 wires coming from them

how would you connect the 360's?
here is the schematic for the wiring:
https://www.scribd.com/document/219982873/Ig-Fs360p-All

i was told 2 different ways to connect them:

use common as ground (-) and the xfrm as the positive (+)

OR

use the
common (-) and one of the colord wires (in this case 40 watt cable colored green) as the positive (+)


im confused which way would work the best as i do not have a 70 or 100 v amp...

any suggestions?


Based on the schematic, these are primarily constant voltage speakers and seem to be optimized for constant voltage use. You would need to use a constant voltage amplifier.

However, and it's very cryptic, it does say that you can bypass the constant voltage transformer. That itself is not uncommon, but I've never seen it done as Bose has indicated. From the schematic the negative/common would be the white wire or XFRM. You would then seem to pick a tap based on conventional amplifier size. So the orange wire would be used with an 80 watt amplifier, green for a 40 watt amp, etc.

For peace of mind and to minimize any equipment damage, I would suggest you call Bose support.
b curry is offline  
post #3 of 11 Old 06-01-2020, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
j2048b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post
Based on the schematic, these are primarily constant voltage speakers and seem to be optimized for constant voltage use. You would need to use a constant voltage amplifier.

However, and it's very cryptic, it does say that you can bypass the constant voltage transformer. That itself is not uncommon, but I've never seen it done as Bose has indicated. From the schematic the negative/common would be the white wire or XFRM. You would then seem to pick a tap based on conventional amplifier size. So the orange wire would be used with an 80 watt amplifier, green for a 40 watt amp, etc.

For peace of mind and to minimize any equipment damage, I would suggest you call Bose support.
thanks, and yes i thought to bypass the transformer id connect the xfmr to the negative and probably green for the 30 watts...my receiver has 7 channels and is 745 watts total, so i figured once this pair is connected thru the speaker b then it be fine...bose stated when i called to use the xfmr as the positive and the common as the ground.... weird i know...

according to this site: https://www.commgear.com/cable-work-...ker-green.html

it says white is positive and comon is black (-) to bypass the xfrm....
j2048b is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 11 Old 06-02-2020, 06:01 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 5,079
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1297 Post(s)
Liked: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2048b View Post
thanks, and yes i thought to bypass the transformer id connect the xfmr to the negative and probably green for the 30 watts...my receiver has 7 channels and is 745 watts total, so i figured once this pair is connected thru the speaker b then it be fine...bose stated when i called to use the xfmr as the positive and the common as the ground.... weird i know...

according to this site: https://www.commgear.com/cable-work-...ker-green.html

it says white is positive and comon is black (-) to bypass the xfrm....
So you're saying that what Bose said and what the CommGear site are saying is in agreement.

I took another look at the Bose instructions.

For me it's clear how the constant voltage connection is made in the part A instructions from Bose.

If you refer to the part B section of the Bose instructions, it they say, "XFRM + "80W OR 40W OR 20W OR 10W"




So it looks like from the picture, they want you to select one of the "W" taps and twist it together with the "XFRM" wire. Then perhaps you use the Black/Common wire for the other leg.

It's about as clear as mud.

I guess I would follow what Bose has said and use the White/XFRM and Black/COM wires and see what happens.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Bose2.jpg
Views:	65
Size:	110.7 KB
ID:	2736004  
b curry is offline  
post #5 of 11 Old 06-02-2020, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
j2048b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post
So you're saying that what Bose said and what the CommGear site are saying is in agreement.

I took another look at the Bose instructions.

For me it's clear how the constant voltage connection is made in the part A instructions from Bose.

If you refer to the part B section of the Bose instructions, it they say, "XFRM + "80W OR 40W OR 20W OR 10W"




So it looks like from the picture, they want you to select one of the "W" taps and twist it together with the "XFRM" wire. Then perhaps you use the Black/Common wire for the other leg.

It's about as clear as mud.

I guess I would follow what Bose has said and use the White/XFRM and Black/COM wires and see what happens.
yep clear as mud it is... thats why i had to post here as well as other places (reddit) to ask the questions...if i remember right bose stated that if u have a professional amp like one of theirs ud run it 70 or 100 volts and then connect the xmfr cable and one of the wattage cables and be done...since i am running my own i cannot trigger the other watts because its the 70/100 volt systems that let u use those, as when u have a bunch of speakers connected in parallel or series, u can choose what wats ur gonna run

but what evs haha ill try it all sorts of ways and see what happens
j2048b is offline  
post #6 of 11 Old 06-02-2020, 09:01 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 5,079
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1297 Post(s)
Liked: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2048b View Post
yep clear as mud it is... thats why i had to post here as well as other places (reddit) to ask the questions...if i remember right bose stated that if u have a professional amp like one of theirs ud run it 70 or 100 volts and then connect the xmfr cable and one of the wattage cables and be done...since i am running my own i cannot trigger the other watts because its the 70/100 volt systems that let u use those, as when u have a bunch of speakers connected in parallel or series, u can choose what wats ur gonna run

but what evs haha ill try it all sorts of ways and see what happens
You seem to be conflating a little bit.

A constant voltage system uses a constant voltage, in this case 70v or 100v. 70v is perhaps the most common. The individual speaker has a transformer attached to it to step down the voltage to a usable value. This avoids the problem of impedance matching a conventional amplifier when using multiple speakers an a single run or channel.

There is nothing "professional" about a constant voltage amplifier, it's simply designed to out put a constant line voltage. That is, it has a different design topology.

Diagram A explains the connection for the speakers constant voltage transformer. You use either the 70v or 100v tap and the common connection.

Part B explains bypassing the transformer and using the speaker in a conventional way. This Bose speaker specifications indicate that the speaker presents itself as a 4Ω nominal load. If you use it as such, you would need to respect the physics, impedance characteristics, of a conventional amplifier speaker combination.

At this point it looks like you connect the white/XFRM and maybe one of the W wires together and use the Black/Com wire as connection number two.

I've never seen a connection scheme for a constant voltage speaker like this before.
j2048b likes this.
b curry is offline  
post #7 of 11 Old 06-02-2020, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
j2048b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post
You seem to be conflating a little bit.



A constant voltage system uses a constant voltage, in this case 70v or 100v. 70v is perhaps the most common. The individual speaker has a transformer attached to it to step down the voltage to a usable value. This avoids the problem of impedance matching a conventional amplifier when using multiple speakers an a single run or channel.



There is nothing "professional" about a constant voltage amplifier, it's simply designed to out put a constant line voltage. That is, it has a different design topology.



Diagram A explains the connection for the speakers constant voltage transformer. You use either the 70v or 100v tap and the common connection.



Part B explains bypassing the transformer and using the speaker in a conventional way. This Bose speaker specifications indicate that the speaker presents itself as a 4Ω nominal load. If you use it as such, you would need to respect the physics, impedance characteristics, of a conventional amplifier speaker combination.



At this point it looks like you connect the white/XFRM and maybe one of the W wires together and use the Black/Com wire as connection number two.



I've never seen a connection scheme for a constant voltage speaker like this before.
So i would connect the white with green, and run that to the positive and then run the black common - to the amp as well and it should be good... Is what im understanding

Ill give it a try when i get a chance maybe tomorrow

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
j2048b is offline  
post #8 of 11 Old 06-02-2020, 02:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 5,079
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1297 Post(s)
Liked: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2048b View Post
So i would connect the white with green, and run that to the positive and then run the black common - to the amp as well and it should be good... Is what im understanding

Ill give it a try when i get a chance maybe tomorrow

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

That's the way I read it. I don't think it maters on the polarity, just keep them the same so they are theoretically in phase.

Again, I would contact Bose support to be sure. As for me, the instructions are not very clear but that's how I would attempt to hook them up.
b curry is offline  
post #9 of 11 Old 06-02-2020, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
j2048b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post
That's the way I read it. I don't think it maters on the polarity, just keep them the same so they are theoretically in phase.

Again, I would contact Bose support to be sure. As for me, the instructions are not very clear but that's how I would attempt to hook them up.
yep, true, im about to go out and give them a try and ill let u know how it worked, and what worked the best

thanks for all the replies apprecite it very much
j2048b is offline  
post #10 of 11 Old 06-02-2020, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
j2048b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 10
they sounded the same wether i connected the green cable or not....so either way works...with the green and xfrm white on the + and black common as the gground - or just the white xfrm wire as the + and black common -
j2048b is offline  
post #11 of 11 Old 06-03-2020, 07:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 5,079
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1297 Post(s)
Liked: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by j2048b View Post
they sounded the same wether i connected the green cable or not....so either way works...with the green and xfrm white on the + and black common as the gground - or just the white xfrm wire as the + and black common -
Well that answers the question. I'm somehow not surprised with regards to the "W" wires. I would like to see how the transformer taps are arranged.
j2048b likes this.
b curry is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Outdoor Theaters

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off