Sony G90 Dallas Chip DS1245Y Successfully Changed - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 65 Old 03-08-2008, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Removed the old Dallas chip in the IC333 slot on the YA board, copied the data from the old chip to a new Dallas chip, installed the new chip and put back the YA board, turned on the G90 and Shazam everything was exactly there as before.

Bit of History:
A few months ago I had to turn off my G90 via its hard switch on the back and had left it off for about one hour. When I went to turn it on again I received a series of error code flashes on the error code LCD window on the back of the G90 in the following order: 88, 88, 10, and then remaining at 11. Remote would not turn G90 on and turning the hard switch off and on again produced the same series of error codes. Did some reading on this forum and determined that the battery in my Dallas chip was failing. At that point in time in order to get the G90 going again I had to do a reflash of the firmware software, which after a few attempts I did successfully.

Here is the post on that:

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ghlight=dallas

Here is a more detailed procedure to changing the Dallas chip.

1. Turned on G90 and did a Data save to Service Block – Page 132 of G90 Installation manual. This was done as a precaution to a possible total failure of the old Dallas chip whereby it would no longer be readable (i.e. Battery too weak causing corrupt data, lack of readability etc.).
2. Turned G90 off from remote.
3. Turned G90 off from hard switch on back (I did not unplug my G90 but you can if you want to be extra safe).
4. Unscrewed the 10 screws on the back of G90 near where YA board is installed and removed back cover.
5. Unlatched the YA board black clips at either ends of the board and slid out the YA board carefully. Make sure that you are not carrying any static electrical charge as the YA board is sensitive to static electricity and you can end up damaging the board rendering it useless. (I think Sony is currently charging about 1700 to fix it)
6. Placed the YA board on an antistatic foam sheet. Bought the sheet at a local electronics store measuring 18” x 24” for few bucks.
7. Put on an antistatic bracelet and attached it’s alligator clip to the back of my PC.
8. Removed Dallas chip with my fingers while holding the YA board down near the chip. Be careful in prying it loose here as the chip was solidly plugged into a white socket. It is not soldered. You actually need a fair amount of force to pry it off. I had pulled a bit too hard and accidentally hit part of the Dallas chip wires against my other hand and bent some of them. I carefully rebent the wires back into place.
9. I then set up my EPROM programmer and placed the Dallas chip into the programmer chip holder. Very important to align pin one of the Dallas chip in the correct socket or you run the risk of damaging the chip when reading it with the EPROM programmer. There is a small circular indent (chips pin 1 marker) on the top part of the Dallas chip so it was easy to identify pin 1.
10. I then read the chip and saved data (hex file containing serial number, tube hours and user data – convergence, gray scale etc) on my computer.
11. Pulled old Dallas chip off EPROM programmer and installed new Dallas chip and Programmed/verified data to new Dallas chip.
12. Installed the new Dallas chip to the YA board. Make sure that chip is installed with pin one in the correct socket. The old Dallas chip and new Dallas chip looked identical so I just installed the new chip in same direction as the old chip (identified by the direction of the writing on the chips). Make sure you make a note of the direction when you remove the old chip. Again, be somewhat careful as you need a firm amount of force to fully put the Dallas chip all the way back into the socket and you do not want to bend the Dallas chip’s metal pins in the process. I first aligned the chip parallel to the socket on the YA board, initially pushing lightly to get the pins in as much as possible and as evenly as possible and then applied a much firmer even push to both top ends of the Dallas chip to get if fully in.
13. Installed the YA board into my G90 and reinstalled the back plate and 10 screws back in.
14. Turned G90 on from the hard switch on the back and looked for any possible error codes. No codes present.
15. Turned G90 on via remote and went into service mode and checked brightness, contrast, serial number, tuber hours etc.. All information was exactly the same.
16. New Dallas chip should be good for at least 10 more years.

Other information:

-Old Dallas chip was a DS1245Y - 120 with date inscription on top of chip of Dec 1998 (Chip date code 9852H - showing chip made in 1998 on 52nd week)
-New Dallas chip was a DS1245 - 120+ with date inscription on top of chip of 2007 March (0711M – showing chip made in 2007 on 11th week). The “+” sign refers to RoHS compliant and is Pb-free as required in Europe. This makes no difference and since this requirement was introduced in 2007 I knew I would be buying a “newer chip”.
-The old chip was manufactured with battery connected or engaged so that its 10 yr battery life span would start on the manufactured date. Probably reason why my battery started showing signs of dying in 2008 since it was made and battery engaged 10 years earlier in 1998. The new Dallas chip was manufactured without battery connected/engaged so it life starts from the date that I first programmed it which was today even though it was manufactured in March 2007.
-Since I had copied the old data fully from the old Dallas chip to the new one I did not need to reflash the Sony G90 firmware software again as I had previously needed to do when the Dallas chip failed a few months ago.

I hope the above assists in alleviating anyone’s concerns in regards to their G90 and Dallas chip. All you need to do is buy a chip and programmer and you are set. I would suggest changing the chip upon seeing first signs of failure since if the chip becomes too unstable and unreadable then the data might not be transferable. At the very least save your user data to the service block periodically so you at least have a back up there.

I have a couple extra Dallas chips I acquired just in case. Should anyone want to send me their old Dallas chip to make a computer back up and program onto a new chip just let me know.

Dallas chip at Newark:
http://www.newark.com/88K4025/semico...IM-DS1245Y-120

Below are some pictures of the procedure.
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post #2 of 65 Old 03-08-2008, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 65 Old 03-08-2008, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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post #4 of 65 Old 03-09-2008, 03:16 AM
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There's something unusual about this. I just had issues with a G90 I purchased and when I got it the error 11 code was coming up and the unit wouldn't come out of standby.

This machine had a new Dallas chip installed. Still having the old Dallas chip I swapped back to that with the expectation that the firmware would no longer need to be upgraded. To my surprise I still got the error 11 when switching the machine back on.

So I proceeded with the emergency firmware upload, with the old Dallas chip in place. This worked and then the machine switched on. The next day I wanted to try the new Dallas chip again (the one that had originally displayed the error 11) so I swapped it back into the unit with the expectation that I'd need to again do an emergency firmware update. Well, I swapped the chip back but the unit didn't require the firmware update. So I'm thinking, it's not the Dallas chip that stores the firmware, or something else is happening here?
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post #5 of 65 Old 03-09-2008, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dyates69 View Post

There's something unusual about this. I just had issues with a G90 I purchased and when I got it the error 11 code was coming up and the unit wouldn't come out of standby.

This machine had a new Dallas chip installed. Still having the old Dallas chip I swapped back to that with the expectation that the firmware would no longer need to be upgraded. To my surprise I still got the error 11 when switching the machine back on.

So I proceeded with the emergency firmware upload, with the old Dallas chip in place. This worked and then the machine switched on. The next day I wanted to try the new Dallas chip again (the one that had originally displayed the error 11) so I swapped it back into the unit with the expectation that I'd need to again do an emergency firmware update. Well, I swapped the chip back but the unit didn't require the firmware update. So I'm thinking, it's not the Dallas chip that stores the firmware, or something else is happening here?

Yes that is strange. When you installed the new Dallas chip the last time did you turn the G90 off from the hard switch?

Could it be possible that somehow the battery on your new Dallas chip is near the end of its life too possible causing erratic behaviour?
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post #6 of 65 Old 03-09-2008, 05:22 PM
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Yes hard switch every time I turned it off Frank. I don't think it's the battery in the new Dallas chip, I think there's something else going on here, but I'm not sure what.

It seems that maybe something else on the YA board stores the firmware, and also maybe there's a battery elsewhere on the board too.

I had the unit off at the hard switch (cord unplugged) for several days after that and it still didn't lose it's firmware.
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post #7 of 65 Old 03-09-2008, 06:19 PM
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Dallas chip?

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post #8 of 65 Old 03-10-2008, 03:15 PM
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Frank, excellent step by step post. I think that I would feel comfortable getting the Dallas chip out and installing a new one, but do not know that I could do the eprom programming. When you say: "I would suggest changing the chip upon seeing first signs of failure since if the chip becomes to unstable and unreadable then the data might not transferable," what do you mean by the first signs. I'm assuming you mean - error codes. My g90 is at 10 years now, so i suspect the days on my Dallas chip are numbered. I really appreciate your offer to program a new chip and may be taking you up on your offer in the future. Thanks again for your great post.

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post #9 of 65 Old 03-10-2008, 10:12 PM
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Dallas chips have a 10 year rated life so it would be a good idea to change it now before it starts giving problems as it may be too late by then.
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post #10 of 65 Old 03-10-2008, 10:12 PM
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hear hear. Great write up.
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post #11 of 65 Old 03-14-2008, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaathiel View Post

Frank, excellent step by step post. I think that I would feel comfortable getting the Dallas chip out and installing a new one, but do not know that I could do the eprom programming. When you say: "I would suggest changing the chip upon seeing first signs of failure since if the chip becomes to unstable and unreadable then the data might not transferable," what do you mean by the first signs. I'm assuming you mean - error codes. My g90 is at 10 years now, so i suspect the days on my Dallas chip are numbered. I really appreciate your offer to program a new chip and may be taking you up on your offer in the future. Thanks again for your great post.

By first signs I mean:

1. You have a power failure in your house and the Dallas battery is too weak causing lack of readability of Dallas chip by the G90. At this point your G90 will not turn on and will go into firmware emergency upload mode.

2. You turn off your G90 for whatever reason from the hard switch on the back. End result is similar to point 1 above.

3. If you know your G90 is getting close to its 10 year life and it is important for you to keep the same information i.e. serial number, tube hours, convergence information etc..

4. If you recently had the power to your G90 turned off and on again without issue (indicating the battery still has good power in it - although this can change very quickly if the battery is close to its last leg) than you can read the date on your G90 Dallas SRAM chip and if it is getting close to its 10 year life and it is important for you to keep the same information i.e. serial number, tube hours, convergence information etc.. To do this you have to turn off the G90 from the hard switch on the back first and then pull out your YA board and read the top of the chip. The date code should be a 4-digit number followed by a letter.


Just remember if you wait too long you run the risk of the battery completely ding off and possibly corrupting the data at which point it may not be possible to make a good copy.
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post #12 of 65 Old 03-15-2008, 07:24 AM
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Do all the Sony projectors from that lineup (G90, G70, D50) use the same chip?
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post #13 of 65 Old 03-16-2008, 06:23 AM
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Do you have a model/part number (or name) for the eeprom programmer you used? I searched online and there are bunches of different kinds but I'm having a hard time knowing/finding one that will:

A) Work with a Dallas chip and
B) Has integrated software that will run on XP

Thanks-good post!
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post #14 of 65 Old 03-17-2008, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fa8362 View Post

Do all the Sony projectors from that lineup (G90, G70, D50) use the same chip?

Yes, same kind of NOVSRAM chips but no: different brand and/or reference (i.e. DS1235Y/smaller memory size on G70/D50).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank D View Post

3. If you know your G90 is getting close to its 10 year life and it is important for you to keep the same information i.e. serial number, tube hours, convergence information etc..

PJ serial number, tube hours, chassis hours can be added in a blank chip using the programmer Hex editor. However, convergences/MG focus data will be losted when using a new NOVSRAM chip. John

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Hello John,

So if I am reading this correctly, once you install a new Dallas chip and even if you copy all of your data using a programmer to the new chip, you will still lose your convergence/focus settings??

How would one backup all of their user/service/expert/pro settings including conv, focus, mg focus, grey scale tracking, position, size, brightness, contrast...etc..etc..etc..

In other words, backup everything so that in the event that one of these Dallas chips fail, it is simply a matter of installing a new one and you are good to go??

On the NEC XG series, they have a software program that you can backup everything without having to take the unit apart. Having owned my G90 now for over a year and having had a few NEC XG series projectors, I can honestly say that the NEC has a MUCH easier way of protecting/backing up all of the user/service data without having to resort to pulling circuit boards and purchasing a eprom reader/programmer just to accomplish backing up this vital data.

FrankD, EXCELLENT step by step detailed explanation of your procedure!! This should definately be a reference post to save for all G90 owners...


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman View Post

Yes, same kind of NOVSRAM chips but no: different brand and/or reference (i.e. DS1235Y/smaller memory size on G70/D50).
PJ serial number, tube hours, chassis hours can be added in a blank chip using the programmer Hex editor. However, convergences/MG focus data will be losted when using a new NOVSRAM chip. John


Thanks!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Feldman View Post

So if I am reading this correctly, once you install a new Dallas chip and even if you copy all of your data using a programmer to the new chip, you will still lose your convergence/focus settings??

No Brian, it seem's that I was not clear enough I mean that if you simply use a blank NOVSRAM chip (because you completely loosed the previous Dallas chip content), you can use this blank chip straight on the YA board (it will ask for for the NOVSRAM formating process, once) then, you can still fill-in the PJ serial, tubes and chassis timers values using a programmer. But because you loosed the ability to backup your convergences/MG focus setting with the death of the previous Dallas IC, you can't recovers these settings from scratch unless :
- You've stored these adjutments to the projector service block before (flash IC334),
- you redo the convergences and MG focus adjustments from the beginning and store them within the new Dallas chip.

I hope I'm clearer now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Feldman View Post

In other words, backup everything so that in the event that one of these Dallas chips fail, it is simply a matter of installing a new one and you are good to go??

Yes, you are right it'll work this way
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post #17 of 65 Old 03-17-2008, 11:22 AM
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Thanks John for the clarification.. I am seriously considering the purchase of a replacement Dallas chip along with the programmer to backup my settings. I have spent way too much time getting everything dialed in to lose it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman View Post

No Brian, it seem's that I was not clear enough I mean that if you simply use a blank NOVSRAM chip (because you completely loosed the previous Dallas chip content), you can use this blank chip straight on the YA board (it will ask for for the NOVSRAM formating process, once) then, you can still fill-in the PJ serial, tubes and chassis timers values using a programmer. But because you loosed the ability to backup your convergences/MG focus setting with the death of the previous Dallas IC, you can't recovers these settings from scratch unless :
- You've stored these adjutments to the projector service block before (flash IC334),
- you redo the convergences and MG focus adjustments from the beginning and store them within the new Dallas chip.

I hope I'm clearer now
Yes, you are right it'll work this way
John


Thanks!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Feldman View Post

Thanks John for the clarification.. I am seriously considering the purchase of a replacement Dallas chip along with the programmer to backup my settings. I have spent way too much time getting everything dialed in to lose it.

Me too Brian I tried to order some of these chips at Newark and they just stated me that they refused to export those ICs outside USA I tried to find them in Europe and this is very difficult (found one reseller at $120 ).
I need to change and backup four of my G90 customers here in France just to be honest with them...

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post #19 of 65 Old 03-17-2008, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picree View Post

Do you have a model/part number (or name) for the eeprom programmer you used? I searched online and there are bunches of different kinds but I'm having a hard time knowing/finding one that will:

A) Work with a Dallas chip and
B) Has integrated software that will run on XP

Thanks-good post!

A) I think that just about any Willem EPROM programmer will work. Just make sure the Dallas chip is listed in the EPROM programmer's programmable chip list.

B) I have XP on my computer and it worked with the EPROM programmer software no problem.

This is the place where I purchased my programmer:
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/stor...idProduct=3199
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So the recommendation is to save the current convergence, geometry, colorimetry etc data to a service block as a precaution. Assuming the Dallas chip completely fails and is replaced with a new chip, will the data in the service block transfer either automatically or maybe moved manually by recalling service data?

Is there any chance the data on the older but functional chip could be corrupted during the reading process?
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I use the Pocket Programmer 2 for these Dallas Chips and they work fine.

Lewis certainly you could acidentially "glitch" the chip if you don't follow the programmers instructions, but the chance of that is remote.

Terry

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post #22 of 65 Old 03-18-2008, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewis View Post

So the recommendation is to save the current convergence, geometry, colorimetry etc data to a service block as a precaution. Assuming the Dallas chip completely fails and is replaced with a new chip, will the data in the service block transfer either automatically or maybe moved manually by recalling service data?

Is there any chance the data on the older but functional chip could be corrupted during the reading process?

Well it definitely will not hurt to save the service data from time to time.

If the Dallas chip completely fails you than would have to upload the G90 firmware via computer and RS 232 port on the back of the G90. The next step would be to replace the Dallas chip and save the service data back to the user data on the new Dallas chip. I have not tried this but I imagine it should be easy. You may end up losing your tube hours and serial number this way. As John pointed out you can always edit the hex file using a hex editor but then again you have to make sure you know exactly where the hours and serial number is located and also know how to update it.

There is always a chance the data can get corrupted during the reading process but than again thats why you save your data to the service block. Assuming your Dallas chip still has decent battery power in it than it would most likely not be corrupted during the reading process.

On a different note I have read a few posts where some have indicated that they may have experienced spot burn to their CRT phosphors due to a weak/failing Dallas battery (which may be just guessing on their part). Although I do not believe that the Dallas chip battery weakness is associated with this spot burn I cannot say for certain. However besides having a desire to save my serial number, tube hours and user data, this just gave me another reason to change my Dallas chip.
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Let's say that one saves their data to the service block of the G90. If the Dallas chip fails before I had time to back it up, would I be able to simply purchase a new chip, install it in the projector and then copy the service block data back to the new Dallas chip?

If this is the case, where is the service data information being held? I assume that the service data includes all of the settings, conv,focus, astig, contrast,brightness...etc.???





Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank D View Post

Well it definitely will not hurt to save the service data from time to time.

If the Dallas chip completely fails you than would have to upload the G90 firmware via computer and RS 232 port on the back of the G90. The next step would be to replace the Dallas chip and save the service data back to the user data on the new Dallas chip. I have not tried this but I imagine it should be easy. You may end up losing your tube hours and serial number this way. As John pointed out you can always edit the hex file using a hex editor but then again you have to make sure you know exactly where the hours and serial number is located and also know how to update it.

There is always a chance the data can get corrupted during the reading process but than again thats why you save your data to the service block. Assuming your Dallas chip still has decent battery power in it than it would most likely not be corrupted during the reading process.

On a different note I have read a few posts where some have indicated that they may have experienced spot burn to their CRT phosphors due to a weak/failing Dallas battery (which may be just guessing on their part). Although I do not believe that the Dallas chip battery weakness is associated with this spot burn I cannot say for certain. However besides having a desire to save my serial number, tube hours and user data, this just gave me another reason to change my Dallas chip.


Thanks!!

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post #24 of 65 Old 03-18-2008, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Brian,

The service data (along with the factory data) is being held in the chip that is in the IC334 spot on the YA board. The Dallas 1245Y 120+ chip that is in the IC333 spot on the YA board is holding the user data.
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post #25 of 65 Old 03-18-2008, 09:24 PM
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Not to cause panic or anything, but if your set is going on 10 yrs old, it's time to change the dallas chip.
There have been three instances now (one in NJ, one in the mid west and the most recent in Utah) where users suspected that they had Dallas Chip failures (they were getting the warnings on the LED) and in those three cases there was a full collapse of the deflection causing all three tubes to be destroyed.
This third one in Utah posted here on AVS about that a few weeks ago that he was going to send me his G90 so that I could try and duplicate the failure and share that info. But alas after we made contact to get me the machine to me, I never heard back from him. Hopefully he is just busy.

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post #26 of 65 Old 03-19-2008, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank D View Post

The service data (along with the factory data) is being held in the chip that is in the IC334 spot on the YA board.

Exactly : IC334 is a "flash" memory technology of chip (same kind as IC234 which hold the main projector firmware, but it is smaller in memory size). Using this chip to backup user data into service data is always safer than leaving user data only inside the Dallas NOVSRAM (and it cost nothing for the user ).

Terry, I seriously doubt that the dallas chip failure can cause the three tubes burn spots but if we can be sure that in ALL the three instance cases, theirs dallas chips date code/PJ year of manufacture were found prior to '98 : we should conclude that the effect has found the cause even this seem's not logical in the electronic point of view...

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post #27 of 65 Old 03-19-2008, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman View Post

Terry, I seriously doubt that the dallas chip failure can cause the three tubes burn spots but if we can be sure that in ALL the three instance cases, theirs dallas chips date code/PJ year of manufacture were found prior to '98 : we should conclude that the effect has found the cause even this seem's not logical in the electronic point of view...

John

John,

While I agree with what you say and beam deflection failure makes no sense to me from a Dallas chip point of view, we can show three instances. On one of them I have the YA board here and have found a short on it from pins 36-38 on the Boot chip. But since that user didn't really know what they were doing when they attempted to change the dallas chip, I don't know if this short is user induced or another failure they have.
The schematics don't show anything about the boot chip that I have been able to find so tracing down this short is very slow work.

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post #28 of 65 Old 03-19-2008, 07:40 AM
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Since there is a slight chance that a 'novice' could screw up his Dallas chip swap and/or fry the YA board is there any professional willing to offer this a service either by sending the complete YA board (preferable) or the old Dallas chip? I know Frank kindly offered but I would prefer to send it to someone in the US or Canada.
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post #29 of 65 Old 03-19-2008, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lewis View Post

Since there is a slight chance that a 'novice' could screw up his Dallas chip swap and/or fry the YA board is there any professional willing to offer this a service either by sending the complete YA board (preferable) or the old Dallas chip? I know Frank kindly offered but I would prefer to send it to someone in the US or Canada.

Just to let you know I do live in Canada, near Toronto, Ontario.
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post #30 of 65 Old 03-19-2008, 08:42 AM
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My apologies Frank. For some reason I thought you lived in Australia. Just sent you a PM.
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