Screenshot War CRT vs Digital 2015-2016 - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 494 Old 04-22-2018, 02:07 PM
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Here are some more
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post #362 of 494 Old 04-22-2018, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello Ask4Me2
See that your old JVC still does the job right hehe


Post image is down and up and down at the moment. Hopefully getting up stabile soon.


Nice comparment of your JVC vs G90. It shows easy why people changed CRT to JVC back in the old days.
If I had room I would hook up one of the Cine9s that PJ got laying around and play along. But takes to much space, so both are in storage.
Kind of dropt this CRT thing after several side by side tests with newer projectors then also with now your G90 and the 2 Cine9s. Maybe some day ill make a retro cinema for my best dvds and laser discs. Then the Cine9 will be a good alternative.

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post #363 of 494 Old 04-23-2018, 09:10 PM
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Can't say that it's an apples to apples comparison. Sure, the JVC is sharper, but judging by the colors, your G90 is poorly setup. The green push is massive. I can also see convergence bleeding around the edges, a properly setup G90 won't show that, regardless of the digital camera image.

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post #364 of 494 Old 04-27-2018, 04:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ask4me2 View Post
Here are some more

Can you provide the screen Cap for these images ask4me2, hard to say anything without them.
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post #365 of 494 Old 04-30-2018, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme View Post
Can't say that it's an apples to apples comparison. Sure, the JVC is sharper, but judging by the colors, your G90 is poorly setup. The green push is massive. I can also see convergence bleeding around the edges, a properly setup G90 won't show that, regardless of the digital camera image.
Yes i do agree with you on the convergence and some of the CRT setup Curt. The G90 have some vertical drift between cold and warm on the red tube, the other color issues is not like this in real life. Think its more of a blue hump insted...

Here is some more HD100 vs G90 pictures..
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post #366 of 494 Old 05-01-2018, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ask4me2 View Post
Yes i do agree with you on the convergence and some of the CRT setup Curt. The G90 have some vertical drift between cold and warm on the red tube, the other color issues is not like this in real life. Think its more of a blue hump insted...

Here is some more HD100 vs G90 pictures..

Great comparison of your G90 and your old JVC HD100. Yes from the pictures feel like may need some calibration, but camera does much here, this you see form the digital projector picture also. But a great side by side since from the same screen and camera. Close to how it will be compared in real, but will be bigger difference seen live. Not hard to see why people changed to digital when the HD1 arrived to the marked many many years ago. But still for us that have and owns the greatest CRTs know what they can do, and will never stop to have fun with the CRT even when we know how they are compared to newer digitals.. Wait until you get a new JVC in your house you will be shocked As you know I compared perfect condition Cine9s to newer digitals reasontly. Then to close some old myths, and discussions . You know the result from me and the other person that is a known CRT expert in Norway. They were tuned both to same light output and equal gamma response calibrated on the same 110 "screen. Both the Cine9s are now in storage safely, and maybe play with it later again when we feel for it. Keep your G90 its a great CRT. I know how god your G90 is, because me and PJ played with it for many days before you got it

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post #367 of 494 Old 05-03-2018, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Try to use
http://postimages.org/

and press share, there you pick "Hotlink for forums"
Then you can click on the image and get full resolution.



Thread rules:
So, adhere to these please:

1. No Bickering.
2. Use an upload site that keeps Exif data intact to check no software processing being used. image.org for example.
3. Minimum size 16/9 2999x2000/ 235:1 2999x1000 res to make a comparison.
4. For comparing to see more side by side without a lot of black, remove top and bottom in picture. Because they will and have to be removed to get the pictures close for comparison.
5. The shots should be posted one on top of the other to avoid degrading them by either shrinking or scaling up. Both can break up the structure of the image after it' initial resizing.

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post #368 of 494 Old 05-06-2018, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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If someone like to try out this interesting Screen cap. Cant wait to buy the BD.
This movie must be eye candy.


This is a quit dark scene also, so can be much interesting. If there still some guys that have CRT in 2018 bring it on


This cap can be used for the picture. Just be shore to get it in 1080P


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post #369 of 494 Old 06-02-2018, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Here the Picture above.
Can anyone do better pictures?
I think that if you don't manipulate pictures this is as good as it gets.
Its easy proven in other threads, that magic is fiction. Lenses limitations show, crystal clear.


I think this G90 does more than a great job here.
Also a zoomed in side by side.


First CRT G90

JVC Second

Side by side zoomed inn.

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post #370 of 494 Old 06-03-2018, 04:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Here also another from the same movie Black Panther.
Got the Sony VW1000 picture from persons I have done a calibration for. So this is not taken by me, only removed the black bars.
You also see the Reality Creation does some possessing to the picture, also camera, like all cameras does.


First the screencap, this can be used with your BD player or PC to take a picture.



Then the Sony VW1000ES



Then the CRT Sony G90

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post #371 of 494 Old 06-04-2018, 03:55 AM
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Run the G90 at 1080i/72 or 96

or

Run the digital projectors at 35% past their rated maximum bandwidth (I don't think digitals can do that!!).

Doing the same thing over and over expecting the end result to be different just proves you're an idiot.

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post #372 of 494 Old 06-04-2018, 06:08 PM
 
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Seems the CRT is what most people would want to watch from what has been shown in this thread. I will stick with the Barco 909 no question about it.
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post #373 of 494 Old 06-05-2018, 12:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Its nothing wrong of liking CRT, The war CRT vs Digital is over many years ago.
I think its still fun to see how good still a 9" can perform in 2018.
Some modifications would help some, but minimal to what its worth, and still far from a OK digital.


Tested reasontly Cine9 against JVC RS440. It was sad for the Cine9 so sad. The guy with the G90 owns a X7500 JVC and the similarity in the pictures show this easy.


Like @KM987654 say try 1080i, that is not the best option because you see the interlaced lines all the time, in my opinion 720P or 1080P 60/72hz. With 720P you can feel some higher resolution, but that is often on 8" CRTs.
1080P look like 720P anyway because of the limitations of the lenses. That I would suspect you know is max 1280x1024 with under 50% MTF if you then run 1080P you are down at 10-max 30% MTF, this is tested and documented on the net some were . "Then on the best lenses used on 9" CRTs". This will show, and very good illustrated in the pictures above. CRT has its own signature and I still like that.

@elio nice to see that some still adore they're CRT. I might play again with my own Cine9, but I don't see the point anymore. And also in this heat here in Norway its a danger of burning down the house using it hehe


But again respect to elio and others that still only have CRT and stick by it.

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post #374 of 494 Old 06-05-2018, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
Its nothing wrong of liking CRT, The war CRT vs Digital is over many years ago.
I think its still fun to see how good still a 9" can perform in 2018.
Some modifications would help some, but minimal to what its worth, and still far from a OK digital.


Tested reasontly Cine9 against JVC RS440. It was sad for the Cine9 so sad. The guy with the G90 owns a X7500 JVC and the similarity in the pictures show this easy.


Like @KM987654 say try 1080i, that is not the best option in my opinion 720P or 1080P 60/72hz. With 720P you can feel some higher resolution, but that is often on 8" CRTs.
1080P look like 720P anyway because of the limitations of the lenses. That I would suspect you know is max 1280x1024 with under 50% MTF if you then run 1080P you are down at 10-max 30% MTF, this is tested and documented on the net some were . "Then on the best lenses used on 9" CRTs". This will show, and very good illustrated in the pictures above. CRT has its own signature and I still like that.

@elio nice to see that some still adore they're CRT. I might play again with my own Cine9, but I don't see the point anymore. And also in this heat here in Norway its a danger of burning down the house using it hehe


But again respect to elio and others that still only have CRT and stick by it.
You have posted side by side images produced by a two different projectors. You have used a resolution beyond the capability of the G90 and well within the ability of the digital so of course the G90 image is a little soft. If you want to compare projector images then they should be under the same conditions either both beyond the maximum resolution of the projectors by the same amount or both inside those specifications. 1080i is the same resolution as 1080p and both projectors can resolve one i.e the G90 can resolve the 1080i and your digital can resolve the 1080p. Thats a fair comparison in that the same resolution is used for the purpose of like images for comparison. Alternatively run 720p for both projectors Try it and post.

Of course as I mentioned you could feed the digital projector a resolution beyond its capability be the same amount as you are doing to the G90 at 1080p. In that case the G90 does quite well when you consider the maximum bandwidth is 135mhz well under what is required to resolve 1080p.

Doing the same thing over and over expecting the end result to be different just proves you're an idiot.

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post #375 of 494 Old 06-05-2018, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KM987654 View Post
You have posted side by side images produced by a two different projectors. You have used a resolution beyond the capability of the G90 and well within the ability of the digital so of course the G90 image is a little soft. If you want to compare projector images then they should be under the same conditions either both beyond the maximum resolution of the projectors by the same amount or both inside those specifications. 1080i is the same resolution as 1080p and both projectors can resolve one i.e the G90 can resolve the 1080i and your digital can resolve the 1080p. Thats a fair comparison in that the same resolution is used for the purpose of like images for comparison. Alternatively run 720p for both projectors Try it and post.

Of course as I mentioned you could feed the digital projector a resolution beyond its capability be the same amount as you are doing to the G90 at 1080p. In that case the G90 does quite well when you consider the maximum bandwidth is 135mhz well under what is required to resolve 1080p.

Agree with you.

Someone can post same picture of 720P 1080i and 1080P would be fun.


Its just to use the screencap, feed it directly in the PC or BD player, just like the pictures of the G90 and the digitals have done.

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post #376 of 494 Old 06-05-2018, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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How does this picture look?
I will say quit good?


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post #377 of 494 Old 06-06-2018, 02:48 AM
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Black Panther JVC X90 MadVR processed JPG unedited.


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post #378 of 494 Old 06-06-2018, 08:09 AM
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NEF converted to JPG cropped adjusted to onscreen visuals.
Same MadVR settings.


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post #379 of 494 Old 06-06-2018, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Nice shot Kevin 3000¨digital signature for shore.


First screencap then side by side

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post #380 of 494 Old 06-06-2018, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I have to say that the G90 does a great job up to the digitals.
Like KM987654 says I agree. 720P or 1080i the CRT will be better.
Why does all CRT users use 1080P. I think this has to be like I think. 1080P must be better..
But like I used before 720P I saw that the CRT liked that resolution better. I know that someone might say different, but would be fun to see photos of 1080i or 720p.
On CRTs then compared to 1080P.

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post #381 of 494 Old 06-08-2018, 10:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
I have to say that the G90 does a great job up to the digitals.
Like KM987654 says I agree. 720P or 1080i the CRT will be better.
Why does all CRT users use 1080P. I think this has to be like I think. 1080P must be better..
But like I used before 720P I saw that the CRT liked that resolution better. I know that someone might say different, but would be fun to see photos of 1080i or 720p.
On CRTs then compared to 1080P.
on the 909 who wants to see scan lines from 12 feet away. 1080i is awful.
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post #382 of 494 Old 06-09-2018, 01:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elio View Post
on the 909 who wants to see scan lines from 12 feet away. 1080i is awful.
I think this have to be what you like, i agree with you. I dont like the 1080i on CRT. Used 720P much better.
Its not always wise to use 1080P. Its not made for it. And you will get better dynamic and experienced sharpness. Also higher MTF. That will be visible.


Is it to much to ask to check on this screencap. Use this directly into the player or PC to Your projector. Be shore to get it in 1080P.


take one Picture With 720P and one With 1080P


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post #383 of 494 Old 06-09-2018, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Here side by side with Oppo resolution on 720P and 1080P out to the JVC. Both pictures are the JVC X7900.
Picture used for this is the picture as I posted it last post.


Here you see the JVC X7900 with 720P vs 1080P adjusted in the Oppo. Waiting for a CRT to show the same. I doubt it will be much better in 720P than 1080P.
All this comes down to MTF and how well the CRT handle 720P or 1080P. But you will get higher MTF in720P for shore.
The JVC will always be uppcaled to 1080P or e-skift to 4K in the projector but you see some clarity/dynamic difference. Because of the downscale and upscale.
You see on top of the side by side what resolution it is in the Oppo.







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post #384 of 494 Old 06-10-2018, 03:17 AM
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Greatest Showman X90 Unedited JPG/NEF converted to JPG cropped.



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post #385 of 494 Old 06-10-2018, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elio View Post
on the 909 who wants to see scan lines from 12 feet away. 1080i is awful.
If you push the refresh or frequency up enough the scan line will disappear and the projector can fully resolve the image.

It simply isn't a comparison if one projector is pushed beyond its ability. Having said that a properly setup G90 will look better than those shots indicate. Its certainly different watching a movie than viewing a static image.

There is no indication that the G90 is correctly setup.

Doing the same thing over and over expecting the end result to be different just proves you're an idiot.

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post #386 of 494 Old 06-10-2018, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Here side by side G90 and the JVC X90




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post #387 of 494 Old 06-14-2018, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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post #388 of 494 Old 06-18-2018, 02:44 AM
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post #389 of 494 Old 06-18-2018, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Some talk about 1080i on 9 inc. I don’t prefer it, but fun to see if some can document it with the same pictures posted here.
Have anyone a 9 inch adjusted to 1080i so we can see?
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post #390 of 494 Old 06-19-2018, 04:54 AM
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Last time i tried that it did not look good when watching movies. Digital projector can recreate a [email protected] picture out of 1080i, but 1080i fed directly to a CRT may show a lot of scanlines and nose with movement etc, and do not do so well i think.

There are not many CRT users left in the world in 2018 i am afraid, so it may be hard to find someone that want to try this now.

It may look good on a still photo when the camera act like a "inverse telecine filter and joins up all the same scan lines for the still picture exposed at 0.8 sec in the camera .. To not think i will even try 720p at the moment, it does not feel right to do that with BD 1080p sorces. If i had a scaler that cold send [email protected], i wold have tried to use that for shure. Have seen that, and it does not look as bad as one may think. But one may use a little time getting used to it...
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