Screenshot War CRT vs Digital 2015-2016 - Page 15 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #421 of 494 Old 03-09-2019, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Here some good CRT G90 shots




























Projectors JVC NX9 :) , JVC X500, JVC RS400, Cine9
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post #422 of 494 Old 03-09-2019, 05:44 PM
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Hi DJ Dee, did the same shots using the RS520 and the same Canon EOS 5Mk2 and 50mm sigma lens used for these G90 pictures.







































Think the white level in the camera is a little bit off...
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post #423 of 494 Old 03-10-2019, 12:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ask4me2 View Post
Hi DJ Dee, did the same shots using the RS520 and the same Canon EOS 5Mk2 and 50mm sigma lens used for these G90 pictures.



Think the white level in the camera is a little bit off...
Maybe a little, do you have the screencaps?

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post #424 of 494 Old 03-10-2019, 12:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Here you see what standard machines can do. Then from a photo.
Different camera, settings,different screen/size and so on will affect the picture.
I will say that both here done a great job on the basic adjustments. If not this is done modification will be just to use up your money.

Sony G90 I will guess 60hz
url=https://postimg.cc/z34xC1RJ][/url]


1996 standard marquee 9500 non ultra with 12000 hours on it. 1080P 72hz 195Mhz.

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post #425 of 494 Old 03-10-2019, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
Maybe a little, do you have the screencaps?
Yes, this is the cap from I Am Legend



And these are from two different The Fifth Element BD's releases, one sone B"nordic" one from 2009, and one ABC one from 2007.




























(2007)

(2009)
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post #426 of 494 Old 03-13-2019, 06:36 PM
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I was thinking this thread would have bloomed by now, because it looks like there hasn't been much activity for awhile. Don't wait for me if that's the case. I'd rather wait to get my setup to a better level first, and will then get back into things later. Plus I've been somewhat busy working on other non related things, but did get enough popcorn for when you guys get do back to the thread.


Looking forward to your postings..
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post #427 of 494 Old 03-14-2019, 03:27 AM
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I've posted a few shots DJ, but take note that are from a quick setup after the control board dumped is memory the other day, and I can't re-load my copied memory file because the laptop I use for that is not here at the time.


Anyway, these are in no way competition grade, and I hope you don't use them as such. I do intend after I get a tube and get things seriously dialed in get back to this. But for now, I just took a few shots after a quick setup. But this time using my third set of neck boards because they are the higher bandwidth version being used to setup only.




















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post #428 of 494 Old 03-14-2019, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Thats Ok Mike I wont.
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post #429 of 494 Old 03-14-2019, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
Thats Ok Mike I wont.

I'm using the Olympus camera, but I put the image quality back to FINE instead of NORMAL this time. That camera seem to be better that way, but when putting the Fuji in FINE, it distorts the image as you pointed out that time.
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post #430 of 494 Old 03-17-2019, 02:18 AM
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Same Olympus camera, but this time the Image Quality is set at: Normal...






































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post #431 of 494 Old 03-17-2019, 03:50 AM
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Not sure I understand the purpose of these "no way competition grade" CRT screenshots here but hope to see some of the one correctly setup and without that green spot burn later.

These pictures may indicate some of the difference between CRT and Digital in a way that for a CRT projector, it is less plug and play than a any typical digital i can be compared with?

When we set up a CRT we need to "make" the picture more from scratch than from any Digital i know, the picture needs lots of work and know how to be made to look correct and as good as it possibly can..
Even a good digital need some calibration and adjustment to make a correct looking picture, but not in a starting from scratch as a typical CRT setup.
Some that may not be familiar with CRT projector can get more info about that from this you tube video showing the setup process for the Sony 1292 9" CRT model ( Sony's 9" model before the complete re-design that resulted in the G90)


The later Sony G90 is one of the most over engineered and complex menu controlled plug and play CRT projector ever made, but setting up it still needs the same correct alignment and lens flapping etc. The EH Marquee is more basic hardware hands on, modification and tweak able CRT around....

The posted screenshot here may also show that it is often harder to photograph CRT projected pictures vs digital, but without the same scenes photographed of a digital projector from the same camera etc, it is hard to know how these scenes compare. I do not have that movie or BD captured sources, so can not try these on the G90 or RS520.

CRT is generally often harder to photograph than digitals because of the softer looking CRT signature with no pixel screendoor projector focus plane to focus on (harder to know when the camera have optimal focus of the lens, (can not thrust the auto focus)), the way the CRT refresh each frame, were the picture is only partly "on" in a very short period of time with different on time for the the RGB phosphorus, that may confuse the light meter white balance and exposure in a camera etc.

It is also often easier to get a sharper looking CRT picture on screen when the projector is not setup to produce a lots of light, but a low light projected picture is harder to get correct when using a camera.
A Camera will for low light need longer exposure times, an aperture setting letting more light pass trough the lens where its optical properties is not the best, and using higher ISO settings that combined with longer shutter times may often cause more noise from the camera chip and some more processing etc.

From one of the posted pictures


that still looks a little under exposed the exif exposure data show f/3.6 2sec ISO 400 that indicate a EV0.6 > 0.0553 fL low light picture on screen....

Edit: see you posted some more screenshots from the U-571 movie, are these more competition grade screenshots from your CRT setup MP?

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post #432 of 494 Old 03-17-2019, 08:48 PM
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post #433 of 494 Old 03-18-2019, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
Thread rules:
So, adhere to these please:

1. No Bickering.
2. Use an upload site that keeps Exif data intact to check no software processing being used. image.org for example.
3. Minimum size 16/9 2999x2000/ 235:1 2999x1000 res to make a comparison.
4. For comparing to see more side by side without a lot of black, remove top and bottom in picture. Because they will and have to be removed to get the pictures close for comparison.
5. The shots should be posted one on top of the other to avoid degrading them by either shrinking or scaling up. Both can break up the structure of the image after it' initial resizing.
Hi Dj Dee not to brake rule 1.... what happens to Thread rule 4?
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post #434 of 494 Old 03-18-2019, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a CRT that I will say look great. Have a high BW mod on this one also.



Also a screencap so you can try on your G90 Ask4Me2.

Projectors JVC NX9 :) , JVC X500, JVC RS400, Cine9
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post #435 of 494 Old 03-18-2019, 02:34 PM
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Yes i will try that later. Only have that U-571 movie on DVD (that may be good enough for some the posted pictures here....), but with the BD caps It will be easy to compare these scenes with the G90, RS520 and even the HD100

I like that other modded CRT, think it looked like a better setup with geometry, and colors etc. From the exif it looks to be the same camera used too...?
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post #436 of 494 Old 03-18-2019, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
Here is a CRT that I will say look great. Have a high BW mod on this one also.



Also a screencap so you can try on your G90 Ask4Me2.

Wow DJ. this has got to be a joke right?


That top image is terribly over processed and it's very obvious...so it in no way could represent anything high bandwidth. Put your glasses on and look at again.



So this must be a trick, but why..
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post #437 of 494 Old 03-19-2019, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ask4me2 View Post
Yes i will try that later. Only have that U-571 movie on DVD (that may be good enough for some the posted pictures here....), but with the BD caps It will be easy to compare these scenes with the G90, RS520 and even the HD100

I like that other modded CRT, think it looked like a better setup with geometry, and colors etc. From the exif it looks to be the same camera used too...?
Yes same camere, same settings. in the camera.

Trid this on the JVC X500, With more resolution you show more. So I will guess with higher BW you will also show more and be sharper and more detailed.
But this is by far a good picture taken of the JVC X500, look some hard.

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post #438 of 494 Old 03-19-2019, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
Yes same camere, same settings. in the camera.

Trid this on the JVC X500, With more resolution you show more. So I will guess with higher BW you will also show more and be sharper and more detailed.
But this is by far a good picture taken of the JVC X500, look some hard.

You're not understanding things here. Higher bandwidth should always be confirmed by how well things in the background are revealed. Youre shot looks more like I would expect from a digital. The same previous shot I posted is dark on purpose...so the background is not showing because it is too dark to reveal it.





This (below) is what high bandwidth should look like...it must be clean and clear in detail.






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post #439 of 494 Old 03-19-2019, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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This a very simple, and answering what I suppose not understand with BW.

Here your marquee and another marquee. With same camera settings. Just different modifications in the Marquee Pictures can be seen above in this thread.

High BW shall also resolve the foreground to resolve the background well hehe, or in the past when you did mods, you only focus on the background and forget the most important part the foreground. ?

Why this is not shown in your first picture or the other marque is the camera you both used. With the same settings. It shows quit different BW resolving in the foreground.


This shot is in fact a great comparison to your shot, also a illustration of what shown on screen in the foreground, everybody knows that the background is clearly visible on any crt.




Move on.

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post #440 of 494 Old 03-19-2019, 07:08 AM
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DJ, cut it out. There are many issues with that shot, that the old DJ would have been true to his nature and called out also..


The camera comparison proves nothing here, and your mentioning of my focusing on background and leaving foreground out makes no sense either. The bandwidth is better defined and proving using background, which is also the main reason for going 4K. Foreground should follow or be as good as background in today's image evaluation, because it is also what set aside "standard definition" from "high definition." When things are High Def, it basically means the ability to see all things in the image in its entirety.



And that is also why I said there should be multiple shots all posted at one time, where any judging can be based on the ability so see how well, the setup, etc is doing based on the ability to see things beyond a foreground only or background only scene. In other words, you cannot judge a setup based on a single scene. A single scene cannot present the ability to see dynamics.
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post #441 of 494 Old 03-19-2019, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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This was also observed by Ask4Me2

"I like that other modded CRT, think it looked like a better setup with geometry, and colors etc. From the exif it looks to be the same camera used too...?"

No doubt that there is different in setup, with geometry, and colors etc that again resolve in better visible sharpness and debt shown in the photo also on screen.
Different in details in dark scenes are gamma related. Higher gamma show less details in dark scenes, lower gamma more details pop up in this background.

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post #442 of 494 Old 03-19-2019, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Here another screencap to try out
This picture is already posted from one CRT.


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post #443 of 494 Old 03-19-2019, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748 View Post
You're not understanding things here. Higher bandwidth should always be confirmed by how well things in the background are revealed. Youre shot looks more like I would expect from a digital. The same previous shot I posted is dark on purpose...so the background is not showing because it is too dark to reveal it.
The X500 Dj Dee used for this picture is a digital projector...

Here you once again write about the background in movie scenes "Higher bandwidth should always be confirmed by how well things in the background are revealed".

If you have said how well the finest detail available in the entire picture is revealed i can agree with you.

I think the cinema camera used to get the scenes have the actual control of how the detail in the focus plane and background is shown in the movie. A projector only use that source and project a flat "film plane" onto a flat projector screen, and does not know or care what part of the picture is in front of or is the background.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748 View Post
This (below) is what high bandwidth should look like...it must be clean and clear in detail.
Looks like you using imageshark for these pictures again.. The exif info and the original posted file may not be available when you use that one.

If you want to show how well the modded projector show details in the entire picture, I think dedicate test pattern made for that is the best way to show it.

I tried this one on my standard G90 a while back.



with this result

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post #444 of 494 Old 03-20-2019, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ask4me2 View Post

Looks like you using imageshark for these pictures again.. The exif info and the original posted file may not be available when you use that one.

If you want to show how well the modded projector show details in the entire picture, I think dedicate test pattern made for that is the best way to show it.

with this result

My cameras are limited in that they are not capable of showing what I have on screen, to include, my last shots were taking with only a quick setup taking place after the CLM dumped the memory and I wasn't able to reload it. So only the center stig and focus was addressed. And with the green CRT being bad, a more or better setup will only happen after I replace the tube. So any test patterns here would not be good for showing off anything.


Plus, seeing terribly enhanced shots posted, why bother with trying to make things better. As I've said before, this same stuff has happened before in the other thread, going back over the years. The JVC 500 shots is also distorted, because it's hard to believe that projector looks that bad.


Again and being realistic about this whole matter, you cannot prove anything worthwhile using screenshots..
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post #445 of 494 Old 03-20-2019, 05:05 AM
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post #446 of 494 Old 03-20-2019, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Fun to see how much a filter in front of the lens can do to my image of my X500 .
Left image without lens skylight filter, Right With skylight filter.
I will say massive difference.
Then here on the JVC X500 picture zoomed inn




And here to you Mike as you say, """"Plus, seeing terribly enhanced shots posted""""" you should start on your own picture first lol

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post #447 of 494 Old 03-20-2019, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Here the JVC X500

With filter and without filter

Here without filter


Here with filter ----No doubt this picture look horrible.-----

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post #448 of 494 Old 03-20-2019, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
And here to you Mike as you say, """"Plus, seeing terribly enhanced shots posted""""" you should start on your own picture first lol

Considering and knowing that I don't use enhancements, what possible could that distortion be...another reason why this stuff should have an un-biased and uninvolved evaluator presenting "factual evidence" Who I'm sure would complain about the file being converted to PNG from JPEG, and then resized and zoomed in on. And somehow the end results should be clean/true enough to comment on..




Anyway, that's interesting what's going on with your JVC.





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post #449 of 494 Old 03-20-2019, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Remember

Thread rules:
So, please follow adhere to these please:

4. For comparing to see more side by side without a lot of black, remove top and bottom in picture. Because they will and have to be removed to get the pictures close for comparison.
5. The shots should be posted one on top of the other to avoid degrading them by either shrinking or scaling up. Both can break up the structure of the image after it' initial resizing.

Remember that posting pictures here its for comparing pictures. Black bars must be removed.

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post #450 of 494 Old 03-20-2019, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
Remember

Thread rules:
So, please follow adhere to these please:

4. For comparing to see more side by side without a lot of black, remove top and bottom in picture. Because they will and have to be removed to get the pictures close for comparison.
5. The shots should be posted one on top of the other to avoid degrading them by either shrinking or scaling up. Both can break up the structure of the image after it' initial resizing.

Remember that posting pictures here its for comparing pictures. Black bars must be removed.

Well, you know I don't do side by side or top bottom comparisons. I've mentioned this a many times, because any attempt to change size/resolution of shot, it without doubt becomes degraded.



I do think they are good rules for anyone wanting to do comparison shots. And for those not doing comparison shots, why can't they leave their shot untouched and in its original form. Or are you also saying that all and every shot that's posted in this thread MUST have the black section removed period?
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