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post #1 of 17 Old 11-17-2014, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there a better way to speed up Adobe Premiere Pro CC exports?

For anyone out there that uses it, I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Our video exports start out 'fast' and quickly slow down, thus first 10% seems to take a minute or less and by the time we're at 50%, it seems 10 minutes or more has gone by and to get to 60% from there takes another 10 minutes and the last 20% seems to take 20 minutes or more. Strangely, copying big files around the data drive seems ok, but wondering if my system isn't exactly balanced and the best way to increase I/O if my CPU/GPU aren't working as hard as they should.


We use a pair of Panasonic HCV700K camcorders to record a cooking show. Most edited videos are 10-15 minutes. Between A roll and B roll, we have 5-10 GB of footage .MTS files per video. We shoot in 1080P 60 and export as .wmv files (I believe 30 fps). The workflow is pretty simple. Intermittent music joins the two video streams and 1 mono voice track that we edit to make fake stereo. We use jump cuts and some cross dissolves (? like fading) between clips. Nothing fancy at all. Most exports take 2x length of finished video on the timeline, thus a 15 minute video will generally export in 30-40 minutes. A five minute video 10-15 minutes to export. At the bottom are the specifics of our NLE video rig. Attached are my CrystalDiskMark scores. Since my CPU never pegs out at 100% on all cores and my GPU maxes out at 25% "occasionally" (and only 600 MB video RAM is used), I am assuming my I/O is horribly slow and needs something major to change. I am thinking of getting a LSI 9361-8i RAID card (comes with 1GB cache) and 4 Samsung 850 PRO 128 GB SSDs (run two pair in RAID 0) for projects, media cache, previews and exports if necessary. I've read the adobe forum's generic disk setup and wondered how many of you actually follow that.

We've edited about 125 videos over the last 2 years with the bulk on this machine. A horrible laptop previously used would take 2-3 hours to export a video, so this is much better, but I'm wondering if it can be faster?

Since the Samsung's are rated for sequential reads/writes @530/390 MB/s, I was thinking I could get near 1 GB/s read and 800 MB/s write in RAID 0. My RAID 5 (D drive) is obviously slow on software RAID and would hopefully speed up using HW RAID.

At this point, I'm hoping adding the RAID card and SSDs would speed up the editing, and the RAID card would speed up the HDDs (somewhat) without needing to dump them right now and spend $$$ for many, many SSDs. We store our projects on the RAID 5 until I back them up and remove them from the RAID.

I'm assuming the onboard SATA controllers, especially the Marvell are not that good and taxing the CPU (RAID 5) that is needed to encode/decode HD files is not good either. The proposed RAID card is actually 12 GB/s per channel, which is overkill for now, but is future proofing since it doesn't cost much more than the 6 GB/s cards that seem to be reaching their limit with some of the current SSDs. My goal is to replace my WD HDDs in 3-4 years (or sooner) depending upon how fast the bigger SSDs come down in price.

my setup:
CPU - i7-3930K CPU @3.8GHz
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C drive - 500 GB Samsung 840 SSD (Windows 7 Pro 64 bit and programs).
D drive - four 1 TB WD RE4 Enterprise HDDs 7200 RPMs in software RAID 5
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CPU Fan - Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO with 120 mm fan
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Optical Drive - Pioneer BDR - 208DBK
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post #2 of 17 Old 11-18-2014, 07:15 AM
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Welcome to the forum!

Having been reading here for a couple years, I suspect you won't find much help on your subject from the core of regular posters. It would not be because they would not want to help. But, few seem to use Premier Pro and, of those that do, fewer build computers.

You might try these Adobe forums:

Adobe Premier Pro

Adobe Premiere Pro Hardware

FWIW, if you are editing multiple video tracks, multiple sound tracks and have any transitions at all a 2X output render may be as good as you'll get with Intel PC based hardware.

What and where is the cooking show?

Good luck!

Bill
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post #3 of 17 Old 11-18-2014, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bsprague View Post
Welcome to the forum!

Having been reading here for a couple years, I suspect you won't find much help on your subject from the core of regular posters. It would not be because they would not want to help. But, few seem to use Premier Pro and, of those that do, fewer build computers.

You might try these Adobe forums:



FWIW, if you are editing multiple video tracks, multiple sound tracks and have any transitions at all a 2X output render may be as good as you'll get with Intel PC based hardware.

What and where is the cooking show?

Good luck!

Bill
Thank you Bill, I fully understand and will do. Perhaps my next question, regarding shotgun mics (will post in a new thread later) will be more appropriate for this forum
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post #4 of 17 Old 11-18-2014, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Bill,
Sorry, forgot to answer your question. My wife and I have a cooking show on youtube called Amy Learns to Cook since she can't hardly cook anything. I met her knowing she could only cook omlettes and pizza (she worked at a pizza place in high school). I married her anyways. We do competition BBQ and chili contests. She likes to buy pots and pans. So now she has an outlet for that. Well, she posted on here two years ago asking what we need. Someone responded with links to Amazon for the Panasonics, a soft box light, tripods, etc. So on a narrow budget, we got two cameras, three lights and two tripods, and a wireless microphone. Our first video was shot on location at a campground. Quality wise, it was horrible since we only had one camera at that time. Our production has gone up bigtime after getting the second one for closeups. Plus we had the wrong tripod on that trip
A year later, I built an NLE machine since the laptop just wasn't cutting it. How she could edit using Premiere Pro with the screen bouncing all over the place amazed me, but the final edits weren't bad. Now with two big monitors, she's getting greedy with wanting a third one Me? I'm greedy because I hate the time it takes to export these things. I love building computers and find this an interesting upgrade. The other problem is with our low quality microphone, but I'll bring that up in a different post so as to not blur anything.
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post #5 of 17 Old 11-18-2014, 08:44 AM
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2x-3x export time would be a dream on my machine. On my 2008 AMD Phenom I am seeing 7x-8x export time. I haven't upgraded it simply because Vegas is able to cope with AVC-encoded videos at realtime speed even when processing 1080p60. I guess CUDA support built in Vegas helps as I have an Nvidia card.

I never thought of Adobe software as efficient.
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post #6 of 17 Old 11-18-2014, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by generic916 View Post
Bill,
Sorry, forgot to answer your question. My wife and I have a cooking show on youtube called Amy Learns to Cook .... Well, she posted on here two years ago asking what we need. Someone responded with links to Amazon for the Panasonics, a soft box light, tripods, etc. ....
I remember that discussion! And, I watched a couple of the cooking videos!
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post #7 of 17 Old 11-18-2014, 09:45 AM
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I use a LaCie 1TB Little Big Disk Thunderbolt 2 PCIe SSD RAID 0 ext drive with my 6-core Mac Pro that is the fastest drive I ever used.
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post #8 of 17 Old 11-18-2014, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
2x-3x export time would be a dream on my machine. On my 2008 AMD Phenom I am seeing 7x-8x export time. I haven't upgraded it simply because Vegas is able to cope with AVC-encoded videos at realtime speed even when processing 1080p60. I guess CUDA support built in Vegas helps as I have an Nvidia card.

I never thought of Adobe software as efficient.
I never thought of Adobe as being efficient either . My Toshiba laptop running a slow quad speed AMD CPU, 5200 rpm hard drive, built in graphics (AMD), and 6 GB RAM was absolutely AWEFUL. My current machine has NVidia, and that has helped tremendously, but I'm looking for improvement. If avchd is highly compressed and takes a ton of CPU power to manipulate, then maybe more RAM is needed? I just figured read/write speeds around 250/300 MBps is weak. Thunderbolt 2 RAID 0 around 1-2 GBps is insane!!! But I don't have Thunderbolt on my motherboard
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post #9 of 17 Old 11-18-2014, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I remember that discussion! And, I watched a couple of the cooking videos!
Good! You can recommend a new mic for me You must have one helluva memory. That was a while back.
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post #10 of 17 Old 11-18-2014, 10:46 AM
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Good! You can recommend a new mic for me You must have one helluva memory. That was a while back.
I don't know anything about microphones other than the Rhode Video Mic seems popular. The Zoom H1 and H4 seem to get attention too. The are standalone recorders, but with the right cord, can be used at mics.

There was a topic started by Amy703 awhile back about mics! https://www.avsforum.com/forum/161-ca...eless-mic.html

Frankly my memory fails frequently. But, the Amy show is unique in several memorable ways, so it somehow stuck!

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post #11 of 17 Old 11-18-2014, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't know anything about microphones other than the Rhode Video Mic seems popular. The Zoom H1 and H4 seem to get attention too. The are standalone recorders, but with the right cord, can be used at mics.

There was a topic started by Amy703 awhile back about mics! https://www.avsforum.com/forum/161-ca...eless-mic.html

Frankly my memory fails frequently. But, the Amy show is unique in several memorable ways, so it somehow stuck!
Memorable that someone that can't cook is showing others to cook? Oh, it's interesting We are staying away from recorders, unless we go with multi mics, which we are staying away from. We are keeping it simple with just one mic. Going from a wireless lavlier to a shotgun to get better sound since the Azden wireless has interference issues.

She has hard enough time editing the way it is, let alone, now having to sync video and audio. Rhode makes a 'cheap' mic that gets some good reviews. Sennheiser makes a $400ish mic that gets good reviews. Seems each has it's own market. Never put one up on a boom before, so that all needs researching.

Well, thanks for remembering, and thanks for your help
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post #12 of 17 Old 11-18-2014, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by generic916 View Post
For anyone out there that uses it, I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Our video exports start out 'fast' and quickly slow down, thus first 10% seems to take a minute or less and by the time we're at 50%, it seems 10 minutes or more has gone by and to get to 60% from there takes another 10 minutes and the last 20% seems to take 20 minutes or more. Strangely, copying big files around the data drive seems ok, but wondering if my system isn't exactly balanced and the best way to increase I/O if my CPU/GPU aren't working as hard as they should.
This is a bad software engineering annoyance of mine, displaying % done when it does not represent the proportional time elapsed. Are you using 2-pass encoding, or applying heavy processing near the end of your editing timeline?

I would say if you can smoothly play 3 files simultaneously from the same drive then you are not disk I/O limited compared to an A and B cam rendered to a third file.

As far as CPU utilization, I have the same issue with Sony's editor when rendering; the CPU runs at 40-60%. Although if I am doing a conversion in Handbrake then it pegs all cores at 100%. Your GPU is likely not helping speed you up; according to this: https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro...uirements.html the GTX 660 is not supported for GPU acceleration.
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post #13 of 17 Old 11-19-2014, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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This is a bad software engineering annoyance of mine, displaying % done when it does not represent the proportional time elapsed. Are you using 2-pass encoding, or applying heavy processing near the end of your editing timeline?

I would say if you can smoothly play 3 files simultaneously from the same drive then you are not disk I/O limited compared to an A and B cam rendered to a third file.

As far as CPU utilization, I have the same issue with Sony's editor when rendering; the CPU runs at 40-60%. Although if I am doing a conversion in Handbrake then it pegs all cores at 100%. Your GPU is likely not helping speed you up; according to this: https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro...uirements.html the GTX 660 is not supported for GPU acceleration.
Thanks for your reply. Hardware acceleration works fine. I did the 'hack' adding my GPU to the supported GPU text file (I have to do this after each major update, as it gets written over). Without hardware acceleration, it takes 10-15 times longer to export a video. What I'm trying to do, is balance my system by adding faster hard drives and/or RAID card so that all components aren't waiting on my slow drives. But since I'm on a budget, I can't replace my 1 TB HDDs with 1 TB SDDs yet. But since we're supposed to have dedicated drives to do each major function, I was wondering if anyone has gone thru that trouble, or is everyone smart and plugging in a big bad Thunderbolt external drive and letting that beast take over. I don't know how much work my CPU is doing with managing the parity on the RAID 5 drives. By offloading that to a dedicated hardware RAID controller, that should free up the CPU to encode/decode the AVCHD. I was wondering if we had any diehards here with experience since most people on Newegg and Amazon are server admins and not video editors. I'll take a closer peek at the adobe hardware forum to see if this is reasonable expectations.
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post #14 of 17 Old 11-20-2014, 08:25 AM
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There are so many small tweaks for speeding up rendering, but many of them depend on type of project.

Example is in your export settings; Obvious would be; "Use Maximum Render Quality", but that is only for certain projects. In other projects, this will not give any better quality, just slowing down the render speed.
Test this and Google Export settings video tutorials.

Some people insist on using 4 or 5 SSDs like this example (nicked from another forum)..
C: System (Windows and Programs)
D: Projects (Project files, still images, titles, audio files, etc.)
E: Cache (Scratch disks and Media Cache)
F: Media (Camera media only)
G: Exports

You can combine D&F.
G; can be your Raid, but some people insist on SSD or very fast HDD and then export the finished render to back-up/Storage.
After each project is finished, D/E/F disks are emptied.

Check how much RAM is used and increase the RAM if it is close to maxing out.

I guess you are aware that your Samsung 840 SSD has a bug that slows it down over time, and that Samsung recently came up with a fix.
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post #15 of 17 Old 11-20-2014, 03:22 PM
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What Premiere Pro CC do you have? Theirs a 2013 and 2014 version. You can't just upgrade 2013 to 2014. You have to download the whole thing and then delete 2013 afterwards which is what I did. Perhaps 2014 is faster. I didn't really notice though.
Yes, if you set it to a constant bit rate (CBR) that would help.
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post #16 of 17 Old 11-21-2014, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post
There are so many small tweaks for speeding up rendering, but many of them depend on type of project.

Example is in your export settings; Obvious would be; "Use Maximum Render Quality", but that is only for certain projects. In other projects, this will not give any better quality, just slowing down the render speed.
Test this and Google Export settings video tutorials.

Some people insist on using 4 or 5 SSDs like this example (nicked from another forum)..
C: System (Windows and Programs)
D: Projects (Project files, still images, titles, audio files, etc.)
E: Cache (Scratch disks and Media Cache)
F: Media (Camera media only)
G: Exports

You can combine D&F.
G; can be your Raid, but some people insist on SSD or very fast HDD and then export the finished render to back-up/Storage.
After each project is finished, D/E/F disks are emptied.

Check how much RAM is used and increase the RAM if it is close to maxing out.

I guess you are aware that your Samsung 840 SSD has a bug that slows it down over time, and that Samsung recently came up with a fix.
Thanks. I had information overload racking my brain. Since I don't want to replace my current RAID 5 HDDs, I was thinking of buying more smaller SSDs and putting them in a RAID 0 just for editing (and moving the export and media files back to the RAID 5 before backing up). I have 32 GB of RAM and 2 GB of VRAM along with 2 GBs of shared VRAM, so not running out of it soon. Changing my codec was the answer, at least in the short term.
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post #17 of 17 Old 11-21-2014, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post
What Premiere Pro CC do you have? Theirs a 2013 and 2014 version. You can't just upgrade 2013 to 2014. You have to download the whole thing and then delete 2013 afterwards which is what I did. Perhaps 2014 is faster. I didn't really notice though.
Yes, if you set it to a constant bit rate (CBR) that would help.
Thanks. Your answer was not too far off. My wife chose the wrong codec! She is using Windows Media File for the exports because "Microsoft has been around for a long time". She told me that this morning when I told her that simply doing what EVERYONE else is doing is actually better. For web based videos, such as YouTube and Vimeo, you can export as h.264 and use either the YouTube HD 1080p 29.97 or the Vimeo HD 1080p 29.97 presets. They export very similar in file size as WMF, but they use different video and audio codecs. I'm guessing these 'thread' more easily than WMF, thus a multi core CPU will get a better workout and get the job done faster. In my case last night, I exported using h.264 (not the one with blu-ray!) and it took 14 minutes to export a 15 minute movie! WMF export took 31 minutes.
h.264 finished pass 1of2 in about 5 minutes. When it started pass 2of2, my CPU usage ranged from 70%-85% and my memory usage was steady at 40% (12GB). When I used WMF, my CPU stayed in the 30%-40% and occasionally spiked to 50% and the memory was between 25%-35% usage (and took twice as long to process). I don't see any difference in the export. I'll have to play them on my 70" TV to see if there are any compression artifacts/block issues.

So for anyone that is doing this wrong: stop it right now! LOL. I hope this helps anyone out there that isn't doing what the majority of people are doing. I'll still upgrade to a hardware RAID card and get SSDs, but not right now. I need to upgrade my microphone and wait for (big) SSDs to come down in price first.

h.264 (.mp4 file) is viewable using Windows Media Player 12, standard with Windows 7. Not viewable in earlier versions of WMP. Plus, h.264 is not a Microsoft standard, thus is more compatible with various devices!

In our case, a 1 GB export file had only a 1.7MB size difference between the two formats, thus very close in compression.

Thanks everyone!

Last edited by generic916; 11-21-2014 at 06:44 AM. Reason: forgot to add something
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