YouTube- HLG Issues when uploading - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 12 Old 03-17-2018, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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YouTube- HLG Issues when uploading

So I'm finding this extremely frustrating. Within FCP, I can produce a beautiful HLG project, played from my HD to my OLED, that looks just like my original files. The "HLG" logo lights up on my OLED and it plays back as expected. I can playback beautiful HLG files directly from the camera or via a card reader hooked up to my OPPO 4K BD player.

However uploading the same project or any HLG clip to YouTube, does not bring about the expected result. Even though the HLG logo lights up on playback from YouTube, it's quite obvious the dynamics of the scenes are gone. Encoding looks proper and the triggering of the HLG mode on my OLED seems to indicate that all is well. Yet playing back the same clip or project locally, results in a dramatically different result.

I've tried a variety of compression schemes, all 10bit, but none seem to bring the dynamics to YouTube. I just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.
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post #2 of 12 Old 03-17-2018, 12:10 PM
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Ken,

I don't think I'm getting YouTube to trigger my Samsung on anything I've tried to play.

You have any spare clips/video pieces you would be willing to put on DropBox or other so I can see what my TV might do with them on a USB stick?

Bill
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post #3 of 12 Old 03-17-2018, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Bill, I’ll Dropbox you a short HLG clip from my GH5 to try later. In my case there’s no question that my OLED is being properly triggered with a legitimate HDR encoding when it’s present. I’ve played countless HLG clips & shows from YouTube, Directv and my own material, that have played perfectly.

With that said, I’ve learned that YouTube can have the HLG encoding that triggers a TV’s HLG logo, but it’s obvious it’s not always correct HLG. In fact I’ve uploaded a number of HLG clips I’ve marked ‘private’ for testing purposes, encoded in different ways, that YouTube recognizes as HLG, but doesn’t present them properly in HLG. I’ve now come to realize, when playing clips from YouTube, that the HLG logo on the TV is no guarantee that the clip will play with the dynamics that they originally had.

I’ve gone into the ‘stats for nerds’ on YouTube, and my encoding looks identical to other clips, from other YouTube sources, that play perfectly on my TV.
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post #4 of 12 Old 03-17-2018, 05:43 PM
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Thank you Ken. I got it on my PC and it's perfect for what I want to do.

I'm going to use that for a couple things. First is to copy it to a USB stick for my TV and see what it looks like. Second, I want to see how it works in the NLEs I have, including Premiere Pro. Third, I want to see how it plays on my "ordinary" PC with apps like VLC.

Bill
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post #5 of 12 Old 03-18-2018, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
So I'm finding this extremely frustrating. Within FCP, I can produce a beautiful HLG project, played from my HD to my OLED, that looks just like my original files. The "HLG" logo lights up on my OLED and it plays back as expected. I can playback beautiful HLG files directly from the camera or via a card reader hooked up to my OPPO 4K BD player.

However uploading the same project or any HLG clip to YouTube, does not bring about the expected result. Even though the HLG logo lights up on playback from YouTube, it's quite obvious the dynamics of the scenes are gone. Encoding looks proper and the triggering of the HLG mode on my OLED seems to indicate that all is well. Yet playing back the same clip or project locally, results in a dramatically different result.

I've tried a variety of compression schemes, all 10bit, but none seem to bring the dynamics to YouTube. I just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.
Ken have you tried making your film [a complete file] onto your pc or an external drive and loading the completed film on to youtube, its what i always do,i am not up with FCP HLG projects at present but i see no reason why a completed HLG progect should not load onto youtube as made.
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post #6 of 12 Old 03-18-2018, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post
First is to copy it to a USB stick for my TV and see what it looks like. Second, I want to see how it works in the NLEs I have, including Premiere Pro. Third, I want to see how it plays on my "ordinary" PC with apps like VLC.
1) The year old Samsung TV plays it beautifully with lots of color, contrast and detail. But that is with HDR turned off. If I turn HDR on in the Samsung menu, it goes flat. When it first plays, a little HDR logo pops up briefly on a control bar.

2) Windows 10 hates it. The default viewer "Movies and TV" shows a black screen. Windows Photos plays video and even lets you do a little editing but for this clip it too is black. VLC shows a preview but does not play.

3) Premiere Elements (latest version) can't do a thing with it. Premiere Pro (latest version) crashed the first time I tried to open it. That was probably due to my not knowing how to use it (yet). The second time, I got a little window saying it needed to install an HEVC codec. That worked and the clip previews well. The HDR part remains a bit of a puzzle because, all looks good, but I've not located in HDR specific tools. And, my monitors are not HDR capable.

Thanks again for the clip!
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post #7 of 12 Old 03-18-2018, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Bill, just to clarify, the clip I sent was 4K HLG @30p. I decided to shoot everything on our trip in HLG at 30p and not 60p, because I’ve noted 30p has a bit more detail, even when not shooting in HLG. It’s not a day & night difference and I suspect many wouldn’t see the difference, but I do see it. As I’ve done in the past, I put my displays in ‘smooth’ mode for 30p, which is effectively a frame doubler. That goes a long way to making it look like 60p as I’ve mentioned in the past. I never use it for film, since it gives the dreaded ‘SOE’ (soap opera effect), making film look like video.

The GH5 is capable of shooting 4K HLG @60p too, via a picture profile, but I chose not to use it for the reason above. All HLG modes are 4:2:0.

However if your display is showing ‘HDR’ and not ‘HLG’ for the file I sent, it’s probably not interpreting the file correctly. My display will always show ‘HLG’ for an HLG file, but will show ‘HDR’ for HDR material that’s not HLG. That could be HDR10 or Dolby Vision. Although in the latter case, it does display the ‘Dolby Vision’ logo.

Any display that’s HLG capable, is also HDR10 capable. However many HDR10 capable displays are not HLG capable and will not display HLG properly.

Current displays- LG 65C9, LG 77G7, LG 65B6
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post #8 of 12 Old 03-19-2018, 05:59 AM
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Bill, just to clarify, the clip I sent was
Hi Ken, I would be glad to troubleshoot it for you if you send me the dropbox link.

Tom

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post #9 of 12 Old 03-19-2018, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Tom, but it turned out to be a bush-league mistake on my part. It seems that I had a different picture parameter set for the YouTube app on my OLED that differed from the input I use for my local drives.

With that said, the YouTube depiction still lacks a bit of the 'sparkle' that the original had. I think that's just an inevitable byproduct of YouTube's compression.

I sent you a PM anyway with the link to a file.
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post #10 of 12 Old 03-19-2018, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
.....However if your display is showing ‘HDR’ and not ‘HLG’ for the file I sent, it’s probably not interpreting the file correctly. .....
I'll check that today. That may explain why when I turn on the Samsung HDR+ mode that it dulls your clip.

The other thing I'm trying to figure out (with little success) is the output render options in Premiere Pro. One thing has become clear. For the travel and family 4K videos I like to do, Premiere Elements is well suited and fully capable. Premiere Pro is much more complex and does not, so far, adds only confusion!

Bill
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post #11 of 12 Old 03-19-2018, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Thanks Tom, but it turned out to be a bush-league mistake on my part. It seems that I had a different picture parameter set for the YouTube app on my OLED that differed from the input I use for my local drives.

With that said, the YouTube depiction still lacks a bit of the 'sparkle' that the original had. I think that's just an inevitable byproduct of YouTube's compression.

I sent you a PM anyway with the link to a file.
Your file is 100 % perfect, exposure, metadata parameters. It does look different when it's uploaded to YouTube. I don't know why.
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INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS
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post #12 of 12 Old 03-19-2018, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post
Your file is 100 % perfect, exposure, metadata parameters. It does look different when it's uploaded to YouTube. I don't know why.
Thanks Tom, much appreciated. It’s too bad that YouTube removes that ‘sparkle’ that was in the original clip.
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