The HDR (HLG) Shootout: 8bit 420 Compressed vs 10bit 422 ProRes - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 169 Old 03-18-2018, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
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The HDR (HLG) Shootout: 8bit 420 Compressed vs 10bit 422 ProRes

Is 8bit HDR or HLG a "joke"? Here is an HDR HLG video shot from the same camera using its internal 8bit 420 Slog2 XAVC and Slog2 recorded externally from 14bit RAW to 10bit ProRes HQ. So the 8bit is heavily compressed (100 Mbps), the 10bit is not (950 Mbs!). Totally unfair to the 8bit. But, let's see...

Same scenes - for each the first version is from Slog2 ProRes 10bit, the second from XAVC 8bit SLog2 placed on the same timeline. The video was rendered in HLG 10bit DHxNR HQ in Resolve Studio and sent to YouTube. No color correction other than the Resolve presets converting Slog2 to HLG and level adjustments. It is a real HLG video. You can easily tell which is which, since the 10bit source from RAW is 4K DCI and the 8bit source is 4K UHD.

The video has plenty of blue sky, ripe for banding. And lots of detail, and high contrast with those pesky white clouds ripe for blowouts.

There is a difference. But does it matter? Is it fixable? A laughable joke?


If you do not like the test ("the test is a joke," "the test tells me nothing," "YouTube converts to 8bit anyway, so what?"), suggest what you would want to see. I can do anything with the original Slog2 clips, including making them available for download. The point is to look at video and not just use theory that may be true but may be about things that do not matter to our eyes.

Finally, why do we care about this? ALL Sony mirrorless cameras and camcorders less than $8,000 that have log gammas (Slog2/3) and/or HLG only shoot 4K in 8bit 420 - the RXxxx series, the A7xxx and the A6xxx series, and the FS5. If shooting in log or HLG at 8bit to make HDR videos is a joke, that would call into question what Sony is trying to sell, and what anyone should consider buying (note, the GH5 can only do 10bit 422 in 4K30p, not 4K60p). No Canon cameras/camcorders do 4K 10bit below $8,000 either. And they have log gammas. Is this a big deal?

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post #2 of 169 Old 03-18-2018, 07:12 PM
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I haven’t looked at your video yet, but I most certainly am in the camp that believes 8bit HLG is effective and far from a joke. I don’t need to see your video to come to that conclusion, having seen enough of it when shooting HLG on my GH5.

In fact I’m shooting almost everything in HLG now, despite the lower bitrates. I really don’t see the sacrifice in the lower bitrates for the HLG payback.

I’ll take a look at your test tomorrow, but keep in mind the huge bitrate difference will probably be significantly nullified by the bitrate limitation of YouTube. I was looking at my 8bit YouTube HLG test clip I uploaded directly from the SD card (no editing program) vs the same clip played directly from the SD card on the same OLED TV. YouTube seems to remove, for lack of a better description, the ‘sparkle’ of the original. Lost is a bit of resolution and a bit of highlight brilliance. It doesn’t smack you in the face, but it’s obvious to me.

I had a lot of issues with what I thought was my encoding, until I realized I had the picture settings for the YouTube app set differently than the input I use to play projects and files locally. A real bush-league mistake.

Edit: BTW, the GH5 can shoot in 4K HLG 60p, although only in that ‘horrific’ 8bit. I suspect many are unaware of that, but the firmware upgrade enabled that via a new profile setting. I shoot in 30p for HLG only because it seems to render detail a bit better on the GH5.

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post #3 of 169 Old 03-19-2018, 06:18 AM
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I see banding at the top of the frame, both corners at 1:57-1:58 and 2:01.

HDR Colorist and Conversions
INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS

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post #4 of 169 Old 03-19-2018, 08:01 AM
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So here's my take after a close evaluation on a 77" OLED, calibrated in the Technicolor preset, generally regarded as the most accurate for this display.

Overall, I felt they were both so close as to be almost meaningless. There were times I preferred A and other times I preferred B. With a test like this it might be very tough to keep exposure absolutely comparable from one test to the other as it might also be adjusting levels for both. If a cloud obscures a bit of the sun for one test and not the other, the test results can be altered. I've had that happen many times in doing A/Bs.

The interesting thing is I saw no great difference in banding. There were cases where banding was present in both as in the 2nd set. In fact the only time I saw banding in B that wasn't present in A, was in the 5th set. However even there, it was so minor so as to probably go unnoticed if you weren't looking for it.

Here were my observations set by set:

1- There was the slightest touch of overexposure in one cloud on B. This could have been easily avoided with a closer look at the zebras.

2- Both A and B showed evidence of banding in the sky. Nothing hideous, but it was visible.

3- B looked a bit 'washed out' relative to A. Exposure differences?

4- Very little difference at all between A&B.

5- A looked fine, but this was the set where I saw a bit of banding in B that wasn't present in A. This was the only set that exhibited this difference that I saw.

6- Again, very little difference, both looked fine.

7- A looked fine, but B had just a bit more shadow detail, but at the same time presenting a bit less 'punch'. I actually preferred A here.

8- Very close, but B looked just a bit better.

9- Both looked fine with no significant differences.

10- Again, both looked fine with no significant differences.

11- Both were close, with B showing somewhat more saturation.

12- The edge to B here, nothing dramatic.

13- Too close to call again.

There's nothing here that has changed my opinion about the value of 10bit vs 8bit for the vast majority of us. Of course I've found that when uploading HLG to YouTube, the file must be a 10bit file or YouTube won't display it as HLG. At least that's how I've found it using FCP.
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post #5 of 169 Old 03-19-2018, 10:59 AM
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At first I thought I was "there" when I got 1080p60 figured out. No! But, I finally got it all to 4K.

What's this? Another hurdle to conquer? You guys lead the way.
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post #6 of 169 Old 03-19-2018, 11:23 AM
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Bill, none of us are ever 'there'.

Current displays- LG 65C9, LG 77G7, LG 65B6
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post #7 of 169 Old 03-19-2018, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
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Bill, none of us are ever 'there'.
I well past half way and getting closer every day!
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post #8 of 169 Old 03-19-2018, 09:49 PM
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Compared to 360-line (native, sensor-wise) image from the DVX100 both of these are so much superior, that I totally don't care to look for minute differences. To me it is all about content. I can appreciate super-duper qualities of hardware or software or filter or shutter speed or whatever else in a still shot. But for moving pictures, they all are good enough as long as there is no jello.

To your question, these two look similar enough to me.
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post #9 of 169 Old 03-20-2018, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I've found that when uploading HLG to YouTube, the file must be a 10bit file or YouTube won't display it as HLG. At least that's how I've found it using FCP.
Ken - As I understand it, the native HLG footage from the AX700 is 8 bit. Does that mean Youtube won't display it as HLG?
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post #10 of 169 Old 03-20-2018, 07:44 AM
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Hatch, I'm not sure, but I think as long as the file that's uploaded is 10bit (at least from FCP, if that makes any sense), an HLG file should display correctly.

Now why do I say that? I've uploaded test HLG files from my GH5 at both 30p & 60p and both were displayed as HLG. I don't believe the 4K 60p HLG file is a native 10bit file. However when I place it in FCP, I can render out to a 10bit file. In fact, if I choose an export encoding that's 8bit, FCP gives me a warning that the 8bit file may not display HLG properly. Not until you export as 10bit, does the warning cease.

So it may well be that an 8bit file is OK, as long as it's exported as a 10bit file via an editing program. I can probably test the validity of this by uploading a 4K60p HLG file directly to Youtube, rather than converting it to 10bit via FCP. My guess is that it won't display as HLG. The only way I knew my parameters were correct, was by turning on the 'stats for nerds' on YouTube. The only way I was able to get the parameters correct, was to at least start with a 10bit file.

I'll say this though, these exported files can become huge. I can create a much smaller file using FCP 'Compressor', but the render times are extremely long. I just did an 11 minute project that came in at 47gigs!
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post #11 of 169 Old 03-20-2018, 08:23 AM
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Hatch, just a followup. I just uploaded 2 short clips, one shot in 4K60p HLG and the other in 4K30p HLG. The clips were uploaded directly from the SD card, so no intervening editing program was used. YouTube recognized the 30p file as HLG, but didn't recognize the native 60p file as HLG. No surprises.

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post #12 of 169 Old 03-21-2018, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Hatch, just a followup. I just uploaded 2 short clips, one shot in 4K60p HLG and the other in 4K30p HLG. The clips were uploaded directly from the SD card, so no intervening editing program was used. YouTube recognized the 30p file as HLG, but didn't recognize the native 60p file as HLG. No surprises.
Thanks for testing this, Ken. Were the two clips both 8-bit HLG?
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post #13 of 169 Old 03-21-2018, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
Is 8bit HDR or HLG a "joke"? Here is an HDR HLG video shot from the same camera using its internal 8bit 420 Slog2 XAVC and Slog2 recorded externally from 14bit RAW to 10bit ProRes HQ. So the 8bit is heavily compressed (100 Mbps), the 10bit is not (950 Mbs!). Totally unfair to the 8bit. But, let's see...

Same scenes - for each the first version is from Slog2 ProRes 10bit, the second from XAVC 8bit SLog2 placed on the same timeline. The video was rendered in HLG 10bit DHxNR HQ in Resolve Studio and sent to YouTube. No color correction other than the Resolve presets converting Slog2 to HLG and level adjustments. It is a real HLG video. You can easily tell which is which, since the 10bit source from RAW is 4K DCI and the 8bit source is 4K UHD.

The video has plenty of blue sky, ripe for banding. And lots of detail, and high contrast with those pesky white clouds ripe for blowouts.

There is a difference. But does it matter? Is it fixable? A laughable joke?

https://youtu.be/ON82Hp2IOi4

If you do not like the test ("the test is a joke," "the test tells me nothing," "YouTube converts to 8bit anyway, so what?"), suggest what you would want to see. I can do anything with the original Slog2 clips, including making them available for download. The point is to look at video and not just use theory that may be true but may be about things that do not matter to our eyes.

Finally, why do we care about this? ALL Sony mirrorless cameras and camcorders less than $8,000 that have log gammas (Slog2/3) and/or HLG only shoot 4K in 8bit 420 - the RXxxx series, the A7xxx and the A6xxx series, and the FS5. If shooting in log or HLG at 8bit to make HDR videos is a joke, that would call into question what Sony is trying to sell, and what anyone should consider buying (note, the GH5 can only do 10bit 422 in 4K30p, not 4K60p). No Canon cameras/camcorders do 4K 10bit below $8,000 either. And they have log gammas. Is this a big deal?
First let me clarify a couple of things. HDR is ONLY 10 BITs or more. Nothing that is 8 BIT should trigger HDR processing.

Youtube will accept and retain the HLG/HDR10 header information for 8 BIT files. However, your TV should see the 8 BITs and then ignore it as HDR.

Youtube can definitely use and render true 10 BIT HDR files. HLG and HDR10 are both currently supported. If the file is formatted properly and it is 10 BIT then the video will display in 10 BIT HDR as long as your display and output device support Youtube HDR playback.

The Sony cameras are only 8 BIT. Their log versions and their HLG profile are not valid HDR formats. It is false to claim that those cameras support any form of HDR.

The GH5 and GH5s on the other hand support 10 BIT recording for 24p and 30p internally. They support 60p 10 BIT recording externally. The GH5/GH5s can produce true HDR recordings. The Sony cameras cannot.
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post #14 of 169 Old 03-21-2018, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
First let me clarify a couple of things. HDR is ONLY 10 BITs or more. Nothing that is 8 BIT should trigger HDR processing.

Youtube will accept and retain the HLG/HDR10 header information for 8 BIT files. However, your TV should see the 8 BITs and then ignore it as HDR.

Youtube can definitely use and render true 10 BIT HDR files. HLG and HDR10 are both currently supported. If the file is formatted properly and it is 10 BIT then the video will display in 10 BIT HDR as long as your display and output device support Youtube HDR playback.

The Sony cameras are only 8 BIT. Their log versions and their HLG profile are not valid HDR formats. It is false to claim that those cameras support any form of HDR.

The GH5 and GH5s on the other hand support 10 BIT recording for 24p and 30p internally. They support 60p 10 BIT recording externally. The GH5/GH5s can produce true HDR recordings. The Sony cameras cannot.
Everything up to your statement of "true" HDR is correct. However, if you are going to define true or valid, then you have to include the REC2020 color space. No TV can currently achieve the REC2020 gamut, not even close. So by your nitpicking categorizations no TV's are "true" or "valid" HDR. It is not clear that any camera can achieve the REC2020 color space either, so then no camera is "true" or "valid" HDR.

We all know that the GH5 can shoot 10bit 4K for some frame rates and we all know Sony cameras do not. What we care about is the quality of the video we see.

The purpose of the "shootout" is to see if it makes a visible difference to not meet the 10bit spec in making an "HDR" video, using in this case the HLG gamma and color space. I guess you didn't care to look, you just want to reiterate the spec game, however biased by ignoring certain specs and not others.

At least you did not say HLG 8bit is a "joke"; it's just not "true" or "valid." But "true" specs are not what count, unless you are just an equipment collector.
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post #15 of 169 Old 03-21-2018, 01:09 PM
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Thanks for clarifying, mpgxsvcd! I will keep my AX100 until there's a camcorder with 10-bit HLG and a 1" sensor.
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post #16 of 169 Old 03-21-2018, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for clarifying, mpgxsvcd! I will keep my AX100 until there's a camcorder with 10-bit HLG and a 1" sensor.
Did you look at the video? Did you see a difference you care about? Do you have any capability to view HDR? You are just going to go on specs? What a disappointment.

HLG shot in 8bit and delivered correctly looks far superior to anything you can shoot with your AX100 (and I respect greatly the quality of video from that camera, it is just SDR).

Look at Ken Ross' commentary. It is spot on, and he has a great eye and a GH5 (so he can shoot 10bit HLG if he sticks to 30P).

Btw, any banding is visible only in the YouTube version not in the original. It is another example of how compression is a major (not the only) cause of banding when there is 8bit, as YouTube really compresses (and may display in 8bit).
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post #17 of 169 Old 03-21-2018, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
Everything up to your statement of "true" HDR is correct. However, if you are going to define true or valid, then you have to include the REC2020 color space. No TV can currently achieve the REC2020 gamut, not even close. So by your nitpicking categorizations no TV's are "true" or "valid" HDR. It is not clear that any camera can achieve the REC2020 color space either, so then no camera is "true" or "valid" HDR.

We all know that the GH5 can shoot 10bit 4K for some frame rates and we all know Sony cameras do not. What we care about is the quality of the video we see.

The purpose of the "shootout" is to see if it makes a visible difference to not meet the 10bit spec in making an "HDR" video, using in this case the HLG gamma and color space. I guess you didn't care to look, you just want to reiterate the spec game, however biased by ignoring certain specs and not others.

At least you did not say HLG 8bit is a "joke"; it's just not "true" or "valid." But "true" specs are not what count, unless you are just an equipment collector.
You don’t seem to understand how HDR video works. Yes, all HDR video is both 10 BIT and limited by the REC.2020 colorspace. However, that does not mean that every single video must contain every single color the REC.2020 colorspace contains. It just means that it CAN contain up to that colorspace but not more than that.

In addition, if the video contains colors that your display cannot properly show then your display can choose how to handle that situation. In most cases it will just display up to the limits of its capabilities and map the values above its capabilities to something that it can display.

Honestly, your statements here are just absurd. The fact that no current display can show the full REC.2020 color gamut is not an issue at all. However, trying to cram 15 stops of light into an 8 BIT compressed video file and then output that as HDR most definitely is a serious issue.

I haven’t watched the video yet because I don’t have my HDR display with me at the moment. The only way to fully assess HLG/HDR content is with the proper HLG/HDR display. It serves no purpose to judge HDR video on an 8 BIT SDR display.
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post #18 of 169 Old 03-21-2018, 01:57 PM
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Thanks for testing this, Ken. Were the two clips both 8-bit HLG?
I believe the GH5 outputs a 10bit file in HLG, but only at 4K30p. The 8bit 4K60p can be shot in HLG, but you need to throw it in an editor and output it as a 10bit file. It seems odd, but that seems to be the way YouTube sees it. Once the native 8bit file is output at 10bits and uploaded, YouTube is happy and tags it as a proper HLG file.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Edit: BTW, the GH5 can shoot in 4K HLG 60p, although only in that ‘horrific’ 8bit. I suspect many are unaware of that, but the firmware upgrade enabled that via a new profile setting. I shoot in 30p for HLG only because it seems to render detail a bit better on the GH5.
This not a true statement. The GH5 can only shoot HLG in 10 BITs, period. It will not allow you to even select the HLG profile if you are recording internally and you select the 4K @ 60p option.
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post #20 of 169 Old 03-21-2018, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
You don’t seem to understand how HDR video works. Yes, all HDR video is both 10 BIT and limited by the REC.2020 colorspace. However, that does not mean that every single video must contain every single color the REC.2020 colorspace contains. It just means that it CAN contain up to that colorspace but not more than that.

In addition, if the video contains colors that your display cannot properly show then your display can choose how to handle that situation. In most cases it will just display up to the limits of its capabilities and map the values above its capabilities to something that it can display.

Honestly, your statements here are just absurd. The fact that no current display can show the full REC.2020 color gamut is not an issue at all. However, trying to cram 15 stops of light into an 8 BIT compressed video file and then output that as HDR most definitely is a serious issue.

I haven’t watched the video yet because I don’t have my HDR display with me at the moment. The only way to fully assess HLG/HDR content is with the proper HLG/HDR display. It serves no purpose to judge HDR video on an 8 BIT SDR display.
What you are saying about color space is absurd. If a TV cannot show all the colors in the REC2020 space, then videos that have colors that fill the REC2002 space will be wrongly displayed - the colors will be off, distorted, unreal. REC202 color space displayed on a REC709 display looks terrible, and REC709 is a subset of the REC2020 gamut. So any subset will also look off. Does it matter? only viewers can tell.

You are correct on one point - you cannot see how well 8bit HDR does without an HDR display, and thus you didn't watch the video. You thus have nothing to add in this thread except to repeat specs, which has already led one person to make an uninformed camera decision based on nothing but specs - good job!

You again missed the point - what is a "serious issue" is what is visible.

Why don't you watch the video in HDR, and give us your opinion as to whether you actually see any "serious" issues.
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I believe the GH5 outputs a 10bit file in HLG, but only at 4K30p. The 8bit 4K60p can be shot in HLG, but you need to throw it in an editor and output it as a 10bit file. It seems odd, but that seems to be the way YouTube sees it. Once the native 8bit file is output at 10bits and uploaded, YouTube is happy and tags it as a proper HLG file.
Again this statement is also inaccurate. Youtube can recognize an 8 BIT file as HDR even though it shouldn't. However, in most cases your display will not recognize it as HDR because it is 8 BIT. Youtube may indicate that the file is HLG HDR. However, your display will treat it otherwise.

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post #22 of 169 Old 03-21-2018, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post
First let me clarify a couple of things. HDR is ONLY 10 BITs or more. Nothing that is 8 BIT should trigger HDR processing.

Youtube will accept and retain the HLG/HDR10 header information for 8 BIT files. However, your TV should see the 8 BITs and then ignore it as HDR.

Youtube can definitely use and render true 10 BIT HDR files. HLG and HDR10 are both currently supported. If the file is formatted properly and it is 10 BIT then the video will display in 10 BIT HDR as long as your display and output device support Youtube HDR playback.

The Sony cameras are only 8 BIT. Their log versions and their HLG profile are not valid HDR formats. It is false to claim that those cameras support any form of HDR.

The GH5 and GH5s on the other hand support 10 BIT recording for 24p and 30p internally. They support 60p 10 BIT recording externally. The GH5/GH5s can produce true HDR recordings. The Sony cameras cannot.
This needs some clarification. As I've previously explained, you can take the 8bit GH5 HLG file shot at 60p, put it in something like FCP, and export it as a 10bit file. That's all that Youtube seems to need to tag it as an HLG file. I've done that on multiple occasions and it works. So even though the file didn't originate as a true 10bit file, Youtube doesn't seem to care as long as it arrives as a 10bit export.

Further, I can play the 8bit 4K60p HLG file, directly from my GH5 to my OLED, and the TV instantly recognizes it as HLG and displays it in HLG.

So this is not quite as simple as it seems.
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post #23 of 169 Old 03-21-2018, 02:08 PM
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Why don't you watch the video in HDR, and give us your opinion as to whether you actually see any "serious" issues.
I plan on doing that. However, a REC.709 display cannot process HDR at all. That display would truncate the colors as opposed to an HDR display that can simply remap the colors to its capabilities. Yes, the remapped colors are not as good as a full REC.2020 display would be but that would be infinitely better than the 8 BIT REC.709 SDR display trying to play 10 BIT REC.2020 HDR content.
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Thanks for clarifying, mpgxsvcd! I will keep my AX100 until there's a camcorder with 10-bit HLG and a 1" sensor.
Hatch, you have to decide if all you care about are specs, or what is obviously an 'HDR-look'. I could have shot all my 'true' HLG in Florida in 8bit 4K60p HLG rather than 10bit 4K30p, and it would have looked essentially the same from an HDR standpoint. The only reason I chose to use 30p, was not because of the 'real' 10bit file, but rather because I felt the 30p was a bit sharper. Truth be told, the non-HLG 4K out of the GH5 is sharper at 30p than 60p too. I can't recall ever reading or seeing reviewers comment on that, but that's what I've found. Not a big difference by any means, and most I'm sure would miss it entirely.
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Did you look at the video? Did you see a difference you care about? Do you have any capability to view HDR? You are just going to go on specs? What a disappointment.

HLG shot in 8bit and delivered correctly looks far superior to anything you can shoot with your AX100 (and I respect greatly the quality of video from that camera, it is just SDR).


Look at Ken Ross' commentary. It is spot on, and he has a great eye and a GH5 (so he can shoot 10bit HLG if he sticks to 30P).

Btw, any banding is visible only in the YouTube version not in the original. It is another example of how compression is a major (not the only) cause of banding when there is 8bit, as YouTube really compresses (and may display in 8bit).
This times 100!
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This needs some clarification. As I've previously explained, you can take the 8bit GH5 HLG file shot at 60p, put it in something like FCP, and export it as a 10bit file. That's all that Youtube seems to need to tag it as an HLG file. I've done that on multiple occasions and it works. So even though the file didn't originate as a true 10bit file, Youtube doesn't seem to care as long as it arrives as a 10bit export.

Further, I can play the 8bit 4K60p HLG file, directly from my GH5 to my OLED, and the TV instantly recognizes it as HLG and displays it in HLG.

So this is not quite as simple as it seems.
You are confusing recording with outputting. The GH5 absolutely will not allow you to select 4K @ 60p with the HLG profile, UNLESS you are outputting to an HDR TV via HDMI. Then it will allow you to either display or record externally the HLG HDR 4 @ 60 FPS stream. However, there is no way to record 4K @ 60 FPS HLG internally with the GH5/GH5s. 1080p @ 60 FPS HLG CAN be recorded internally on the GH5 though.

Yes if you convert an 8 BIT file into 10 BIT HLG HDR it will play with HDR processing. However, if you edit the video at by pulling the highlights or shadow details at all it will result in banding once it is displayed in 10 BIT HDR via youtube.
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This not a true statement. The GH5 can only shoot HLG in 10 BITs, period. It will not allow you to even select the HLG profile if you are recording internally and you select the 4K @ 60p option.
This is a 100% false statement. I have shot 4K60p HLG on the GH5. Do you have a GH5? There is a picture profile that can used for 4K60p. Did you read that my 77" LG OLED immediately recognizes that 4K60p 8bit file played directly from the camera? The HLG indicator lights up immediately and the video seen is obviously of a higher dynamic range.
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Again this statement is also inaccurate. Youtube can recognize an 8 BIT file as HDR even though it shouldn't. However, in most cases your display will not recognize it as HDR because it is 8 BIT. Youtube may indicate that the file is HLG HDR. However, your display will treat it otherwise.
That may be correct, but I have no way of knowing for sure. What I do know is that my display does recognize it as HLG when I export that 8bit file as 10bit. Yet the same TV recognizes the native 8bit HLG file as HLG when played directly from the camera. So either the camera is doing an 8bit to 10bit conversion on the fly, or something else is at work.

However before you make any other assessments that may or may not be accurate, you should view Mark's tests and make up your own mind as to whether or not there are differences and if those differences are worth much in the end.

Of course this may entail you having to throw out some of your preconceived notions, which may prove to be difficult.
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post #29 of 169 Old 03-21-2018, 02:31 PM
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You are confusing recording with outputting. The GH5 absolutely will not allow you to select 4K @ 60p with the HLG profile, UNLESS you are outputting to an HDR TV via HDMI. Then it will allow you to either display or record externally the HLG HDR 4 @ 60 FPS stream. However, there is no way to record 4K @ 60 FPS HLG internally with the GH5/GH5s. 1080p @ 60 FPS HLG CAN be recorded internally on the GH5 though.

Yes if you convert an 8 BIT file into 10 BIT HLG HDR it will play with HDR processing. However, if you edit the video at by pulling the highlights or shadow details at all it will result in banding once it is displayed in 10 BIT HDR via youtube.
I never said the GH5 was recording a 10bit 4K60p file internally, in fact I clearly said the 10bit file was recorded internally at 430p. Nowhere did I mention external recording devices. Again, I did say I was able to play the 8bit HLG file from the camera directly to the TV. No other claims were made.

As for banding, I've found none in any of the numerous files I recorded. There was no need for raising shadows or pulling highlights, so no concern for the introduction of banding. The HLG did a wonderful job without any intervention. In fact it really made the entire editing process so much easier aside from the potential for long render times if I used the FCP compressor. Yet another advantage of HLG.
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Again, I did say I was able to play the 8bit HLG file from the camera directly to the TV. No other claims were made.
Again, I am trying to tell you that this statement is false. The camera is not capable of outputting an 8 BIT HLG signal in any form, ever. When you hook it up to your TV via HDMI it outputs 10 BIT 4K @ 60p HLG. It is not ever outputting or recording 8 BIT HLG. That is impossible with the GH5/GH5s.
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