Panasonic Launches Lumix S1 and S1R Full-Frame Cameras with 4K/60P Recording - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 59 Old 02-15-2019, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
"For comparison, GH5S HLG was measured at 9.9 stops."

The BMPCC4K has the same sensor as the GH5s, and the chart measures the DR as 11.6 stops. So, what is going on here? HLG is the problem, as opposed to V Log L?
Yes, HLG is at least part of the problem. GH5s with V-Log L was measured at 10.7 stops.
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post #32 of 59 Old 02-15-2019, 08:52 PM
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So V-Log gets you less than 1 additional stop over HLG and then you’re still almost 1 stop less than the BMPCC4K. I think there’s still something else going on.
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post #33 of 59 Old 02-16-2019, 11:13 PM
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I love Johnnie Behiri's camera work but I wouldn't give 2 cents for Gunther's testing. How does he know that the S1 image isn't just really that clean? Complaining about internal noise reduction and stating his opinion that if the image is too clean it lacks mojo. What next, if the manufacturers listen to his nonsense and start putting in artificial noise? Give us a break, his DR testing is folly. Imatest is a fool's errand also. Alan Roberts for EBU used Imatest for his last camera test on the GH5s, including DR. He reported a much higher number (and HLG higher than VLog-L), so ridiculed for his result neither he nor EBU has tested another camera since. The measurement problem is how many stops into the shadows can you count before no longer seeing the image? And then of the image you do see, when did it stop being usable because of noise? The theory being the image stops being usable before it stops being visible. Since we can't agree on when that is, Imatest tries to come up with a computer model that takes it into account of the measurement number. According to Gunther, it got confused by one of the Panasonic styles that was too clean apparently. At least on that point I don't doubt him. Actual DR is hugely important but the reality is that it has equaled or almost equaled most film stocks on any number of cameras. As long as you record the highlights without clipping, you can grade the shadows where almost no one would notice that a camera had a miniscule less amount of detail in the folds of black than another. The really visible feature that sets full frame apart, is dof, same as it ever was.

Have you watched Netflix's Altered Carbon? The best Dolby Vision HDR and WCG you've ever seen, but every scene is so entrenched in shallow depth of field it gets hard to watch after a while. Cinematographers are already starting to talk about full frame/large frame Alexa 65mm, Red, Sony Venice. It's "a thing" but once the novelty wears thin, the industry as a whole is quietly going back to S-35 because it's the ideal cinema format for well established reasons.
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post #34 of 59 Old 02-17-2019, 02:22 PM
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VistaVision. The Searchers.
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post #35 of 59 Old 02-26-2019, 11:02 PM
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Slashcam.de reports that the Panasonic S1 is the new king of full frame video, even with beta firmware and without the 10-bit VLog profile:

"This should Panasonic in this discipline with the S1 at the top of the current full-format competition set: Sony's A7III debug Although similar clean, but can not deliver 10 bitsIs . Nikon on the other hand offers with the Z6 also 10 bits is , but not so clean debayering. And Canon offers with the EOS R no downscaling from 6K to 4K, but only a 4K-1: 1 sensor cutout."

https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test...abversion.html

Last edited by hatchback; 02-26-2019 at 11:06 PM.
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post #36 of 59 Old 02-27-2019, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post
Slashcam.de reports that the Panasonic S1 is the new king of full frame video
If I've understood the article, 4K/30p looks superb, but 4K/60p pretty awful with the firmware they had.
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post #37 of 59 Old 02-27-2019, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post
Slashcam.de reports that the Panasonic S1 is the new king of full frame video, even with beta firmware and without the 10-bit VLog profile:

"This should Panasonic in this discipline with the S1 at the top of the current full-format competition set: Sony's A7III debug Although similar clean, but can not deliver 10 bitsIs . Nikon on the other hand offers with the Z6 also 10 bits is , but not so clean debayering. And Canon offers with the EOS R no downscaling from 6K to 4K, but only a 4K-1: 1 sensor cutout."

https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test...abversion.html
But of course this is 4K24p/30p with 10 bit, which is the obvious differentiator. Enthusiasm at 4K60p appears to be a very different story. That would be important to me.

Then of course there’s no mention of AF, always a problematic issue for Panasonic. So at least in terms of how I use a camera, the status of “King” is something I’d hold off on.

And then there’s the issue of size, weight and price for the body and native lenses. Lots more assessments to be made before any clear picture (pun intended) emerges.
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post #38 of 59 Old 02-27-2019, 06:28 AM
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The differentiator vs Sony was 10-bit HLG; the differentiator vs Nikon was better debayering for the 4kp30. Neither Sony nor Nikon offer 4kp60 so that's also a win for the S1. Plus Slashcam.de praised the 1080p up to 125 fps.

https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test...n--FullHD.html
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post #39 of 59 Old 02-27-2019, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post
The differentiator vs Sony was 10-bit HLG; the differentiator vs Nikon was better debayering for the 4kp30. Neither Sony nor Nikon offer 4kp60 so that's also a win for the S1. Plus Slashcam.de praised the 1080p up to 125 fps.

https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test...n--FullHD.html
I'm sure the next Sony A7S will offer 4K60p.

So when are you getting the Panny, Hatch?
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post #40 of 59 Old 02-27-2019, 07:53 AM
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Neither Sony nor Nikon offer 4kp60 so that's also a win for the S1.
No it isn't - the 4K/60p looks here significantly worse than the GH5/GH5S
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post #41 of 59 Old 02-27-2019, 08:03 PM
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So when are you getting the Panny, Hatch?
I'm waiting for the DxO verdict and some good lenses.
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post #42 of 59 Old 02-27-2019, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Cloudstrewn View Post
No it isn't - the 4K/60p looks here significantly worse than the GH5/GH5S
Yes, no doubt the GH5/GH5S are video monsters. But they're not full-frame, which was the focus of the comparison, so largely irrelevant here.
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post #43 of 59 Old 02-28-2019, 02:28 AM
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Yes, no doubt the GH5/GH5S are video monsters. But they're not full-frame, which was the focus of the comparison, so largely irrelevant here.
At 4K/60p the S1 is APS-C crop not full frame.

Anyone looking to buy into 4K/60p will shortly have a choice of four Panasonics - the almost full frame S1R and the much smaller-sensor S1, GH5 and GH5S. It'll be interesting to see how they compare when the production S1,S1R and firmware are available.
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post #44 of 59 Old 02-28-2019, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Cloudstrewn View Post
At 4K/60p the S1 is APS-C crop not full frame.

Anyone looking to buy into 4K/60p will shortly have a choice of four Panasonics - the almost full frame S1R and the much smaller-sensor S1, GH5 and GH5S. It'll be interesting to see how they compare when the production S1,S1R and firmware are available.
Do you seriously think someone is going to buy the S1 for its crop video?
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post #45 of 59 Old 02-28-2019, 04:15 AM
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Crop video is why i love the GH5 for wildlife and the ETC and even 2x digital is good on that.
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post #46 of 59 Old 02-28-2019, 01:44 PM
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APO-Summicron-SL 35mm F2 ASPH lens $4,595 !


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Leica has announced its new APO-Summicron-SL 35mm F2 ASPH lens, an L-mount lens designed to be used with Leica's SL mirrorless cameras as well as Panasonic and Sigma cameras as part of the L-Mount Alliance.
https://www.dpreview.com/news/267438...h-l-mount-lens




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$1,099.00
  • Micro Four Thirds System
  • 34mm (35mm Equivalent)
  • Aperture Range: f/1.2 to f/16
  • Four ED Elements, One ED-DSA Element
  • Super HR, EDA, and Aspherical Elements
  • Z Coating Nano
  • MSC High-Speed Imager AF System
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tps://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1366998-REG/olympus_v311100bu000_m_zuiko_digital_ed_17mm.html



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post #47 of 59 Old 05-08-2019, 07:43 AM
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S1R scores 100 on DxO, tied with the best two other full-frame sensors (Nikon D850, Sony A7R III):
https://www.dxomark.com/panasonic-lu...sensor-review/
Color depth of 26.4 bits outperforms best medium format sensors!

S1 scores 95 on DxO, tied with Nikon Z6 and 1 point behind Sony A7 III:
https://www.dxomark.com/panasonic-lu...sensor-review/

Great job, Panasonic!

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post #48 of 59 Old 05-29-2019, 08:05 PM
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Panasonic to launch full frame mirrrorless cinema camera on Friday May 31:
  • Records 6K24p and 4k60p
  • Records 10bit 4:2:2 internal at 30p and external 60p
  • 14 stops Dynamic Range
  • Built-in ND filter
https://www.l-rumors.com/l5-the-new-...asonic-dc-s1h/
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post #49 of 59 Old 08-27-2019, 01:04 PM
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^^^While the date was wrong, the specs were right. The S1H is officially announced today: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pan...w-in-progress/
This seems to be the one for videographers. I wonder if Sony will finally release the A7S3 now?
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post #50 of 59 Old 08-27-2019, 02:45 PM
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Panasonic S1H looks like a GH5 with full frame sensor.
  • 6K (5952 x 3968) 3:2
  • 5.9K (5888 x 3312)
  • 5.4K (5376 x 3580) 3:2
  • 4K DCI and UHD up to 60p
  • Full HD up to 180fps
  • Dual SD card Slots
  • Tilt and rotatable flip screen
  • Dual Native ISO of 640 and 4000
  • Unlimited recording times in all modes
  • 5-axis in-body stabilization
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post #51 of 59 Old 08-27-2019, 04:01 PM
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But Joe, bigger, heavier (a full lb heavier than a GH5) and still has CAF.
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post #52 of 59 Old 08-27-2019, 04:45 PM
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The GH6 should have much better specs than the S1H with much less cost for body and Leica lenses in the same FOV range.
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post #53 of 59 Old 08-27-2019, 07:17 PM
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Agreed. This fascination with fullframe outside of critical professional use is not worth it IMO. You can shrink the camera body down to as small size as you possibly could such as the Sony A7 series but what about the lenses that have to go on with the body? The lenses that are compact enough to maintain the balance with the body are invariably consumer-graded, small or variable aperture at best. If you want or need large apertures, AF or additional stabilization capability, the size and weight are then out of proportion of the body and this often affects the maneuverability and control while handholding.

And just look at the prices above.
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post #54 of 59 Old 10-24-2019, 11:00 AM
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Seems that the S1H is the first prosumer camera approved by Netflix: https://www.engadget.com/2019/10/24/...flix-approved/
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post #55 of 59 Old 10-25-2019, 05:51 AM
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Autofocus on S1H appears quicker and more accurate than on GH5s:
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post #56 of 59 Old 10-25-2019, 09:23 AM
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I no longer see much of a difference between Sony's PDAF on my A7iii and the latest Panasonics. I had originally played with my friend's A9 and was extremely impressed with both the video quality and how far the AF had come from my GH5. I was impressed enough to give the A9 a try. I always liked Panasonic's colors better.
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post #57 of 59 Old 10-25-2019, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
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Autofocus on S1H appears quicker and more accurate than on GH5s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGB87IqyMvc
I don't see much difference.

Edit: I watched it again. The S1H autofocus is a little better. It is steadier but there is that one shot where S1H never gets focused. There is not a lot of difference but it goes in favor of S1H.

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INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS

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post #58 of 59 Old 10-26-2019, 08:39 AM
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I don't think whatever difference there may be you just can't rely on the AF tech on current Panasonic cameras. It may be useable if you shoot mainly static scenes or mostly wide-angle shots with deeper DoF but not in critical shoots such as in professional work where the subject keeps moving and you as the shooter also has to move around to track him and play with different angles of shots. On the best autofocusing cameras such as the Canon C series, higher end Canon DSLRs wih Dual Pixel AF, the Sony A9, A6400, A6500 or the AX700/NX80/Z90 and lately with the most recent firmware, the Olympus EM1-MK2 and EM1X, you can essentially rely on the AF face tracking or selective object tracking most of the time with manual assist or occasionally focus lock to help you get through most of the dynamic scenes without screwing up. The alternative of course is as what we often heard some cynics like to say "No real pros use autofocus in video" so you slap on a manual focus lens plus the required accessories and now you have nothing but yourself to blame when missing the focus.
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post #59 of 59 Old 10-26-2019, 01:22 PM
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Just to add, many of these demonstrations of tracking autofocus are hardly stress tests. Almost all of them have only one person in the shot, walking toward a stationary camera, wooden faces not turning away from camera, only one subject in the frame etc. Never so lucky to have it that good at weddings. More likely I'm chasing down the bride and groom from behind, she's constantly looking away at friends and guests, when they slow I run around to the front of them, other people/photographers in the shot. They're not really good shots even if you had perfect focus all the way 'round but the camera won't know who's eyes to grab focus on if they left the frame during the clip.

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