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post #1 of 28 Old 04-20-2019, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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GoPro Fusion 360 Camera Example Videos

Okay, I'm a little bit late to the 360 camera party, but with the recent price reduction of the GoPro Fusion 360 camera I could not resist picking one up. It wasn't long before I realized that overcapture (rendering conventional video from 360 video after it's captured) is an amazingly powerful way to compose video. Sure, you give up pristine 4K but Osmo Pocket and Sony RX0 II seem to have that covered.

The only catch here is that the camera is brand-new and it's raining out, so I only have one 360 video to share at the moment, but with much more to come. This was shot at Pat's and Geno's, the two "famous" cheesesteak joints in South Philly. Captured while riding a Onewheel...

You can control the perspective of this 360 video by interacting with it.


And here's a brief video of a local park, rendered with overcapture. The key to this shot is I used a 100" pole to loft the camera while riding the Onewheel. The goal is to create drone-like footage in places where it's either not practical or not legal to fly a drone.

This clip was rendered from GoPro Fusion 360 video using overcapture.

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post #2 of 28 Old 04-21-2019, 09:04 AM
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Once the image quality has jumped up - maybe 8K sensors or a bit higher will do the trick - this is going to revolutionize travel and similar video areas. Insta360 have coined the phrase "shoot then point" which sums it up nicely.
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post #3 of 28 Old 04-21-2019, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cloudstrewn View Post
Once the image quality has jumped up - maybe 8K sensors or a bit higher will do the trick - this is going to revolutionize travel and similar video areas. Insta360 have coined the phrase "shoot then point" which sums it up nicely.
It would certainly be nice to be able to render 4K video using "overcapture" or whatever you want to call the process of rendering regular video out of 360. Having said that, because so much Internet media consumption occurs on mobile devices these days, the quality is where it needs to be for that application.

Edit... Oh geez I did not know there's a Insta360 Pro 2 that does 8K, streams, etc. for "only" $5000. Would love to play with that.

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post #4 of 28 Old 04-21-2019, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Cruising through the historic part of Old City, Philly. Rendered as 4K 360 H.264.




Washington Square Park, also 4K 360 H.264


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post #5 of 28 Old 04-21-2019, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Insta360 One X arrives tomorrow... I'm not so sure I can live with the laborious workflow and slow renders of GoPro Fusion. I'm liking the quality but the dual memory card and super long stitching times and huge files are annoying. But the results are excellent so...

Not sure if I'm only keeping one in the end or both (I'm leaning toward both) but after a day with the Fusion, I knew I'd have to try the Insta360.

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post #6 of 28 Old 04-22-2019, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Insta360 One X arrives tomorrow...
One word of advice: I had a Ricoh very similar in form to the Insta360 which I foolishly left attached to bike handlebars while it was raining. It seemed to be working when I got home but over the next few hours gradually declined and then passed away. Just a brick now.
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Insta360 One X arrives tomorrow... I'm not so sure I can live with the laborious workflow and slow renders of GoPro Fusion. I'm liking the quality but the dual memory card and super long stitching times and huge files are annoying. But the results are excellent so...

Not sure if I'm only keeping one in the end or both (I'm leaning toward both) but after a day with the Fusion, I knew I'd have to try the Insta360.
I have a gopro fusion, Samsung 360 2016, Samsung 360 2017, ricoh old 360 and 2 insta360. I love the insta360 that I bought 2.


gopro fusion needs windows 10 and powerful graphic card. since my work computer is windows 7. insta360 one x works for me. my insta360 one x sometimes give me motion blur on indoor light.


cool thing with insta360 one x has build in gyro. so no need to point camera straight. you can bend any degrees and still get perfect shot.
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post #8 of 28 Old 04-22-2019, 03:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by spyker1212 View Post
I have a gopro fusion, Samsung 360 2016, Samsung 360 2017, ricoh old 360 and 2 insta360. I love the insta360 that I bought 2.


gopro fusion needs windows 10 and powerful graphic card. since my work computer is windows 7. insta360 one x works for me. my insta360 one x sometimes give me motion blur on indoor light.


cool thing with insta360 one x has build in gyro. so no need to point camera straight. you can bend any degrees and still get perfect shot.
Yeah, and that alone is gonna make a huge difference in terms of which camera I grab for a shot. Indeed, that alone could doom the Fusion to being returned.

I am fortunate in that I have a Windows PC that's built to run Adobe Creative Suite and edit video. I used the GoPro plug-ins last night and am happy with the result, when it is able to keep the horizon straight. But, manually going in and adjusting it when it does start to drift is truly a pain in the butt especially for long, complex clips.

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post #9 of 28 Old 04-22-2019, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cloudstrewn View Post
One word of advice: I had a Ricoh very similar in form to the Insta360 which I foolishly left attached to bike handlebars while it was raining. It seemed to be working when I got home but over the next few hours gradually declined and then passed away. Just a brick now.
Yes, understood, only the GoPro is waterproof... I will definitely remember that.

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post #10 of 28 Old 04-28-2019, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, I admit it, I became a little bit heated under the collar on the day that I got the Insta360 One X and discovered exactly how superior the software for that platform is compared to GoPro. Especially on PC.

But now, I’m over it. Now, I’m embracing the idea of having both devices. Because even though GoPro Fusion is larger, clunkier, has inferior workflow, has grossly inferior software… It also has better lenses. Specifically, it has lenses that are effectively immune to the lens flare.

Also, I have found that as long as I am willing to wait out the rendering and deal with the big files, stabilized Fusion footage in Adobe Premiere is great to work with for reframe/overcapture type rendering.

Now, I will say that I would not of been tempted but for the reduction in retail price to $399 and the added incentive (from Best Buy) of a free charger and a free spare battery. That’s what made it palatable to have both.

Anyhow, stay tuned for more examples. This platform may be long in tooth, and heck it may even be a dead-end development-wise. But it’s also a high-quality camera that pulls off the neat trick of being able to look right at the setting sun without triggering lens flare. That’s quite commendable and to me worth it despite all the other caveats.

Shot this on Easter Sunday...


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post #11 of 28 Old 05-16-2019, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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It would seem that the first GoPro Fusion I bought may have has a defective gyro because it suffered from horizon drifting that is simply not an issue with the unit I have now. I've shot video after video after video and am nothing but impressed with the result. Here's a 360 video clip I shot yesterday, rolling down a steep path on a scooter, behind the Art Museum in Philadelphia.




Also, later today my wife is going to rappel down the side of the building wearing this camera, if all goes well I'll post that video tomorrow..

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post #12 of 28 Old 05-16-2019, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
It would seem that the first GoPro Fusion I bought may have has a defective gyro because it suffered from horizon drifting that is simply not an issue with the unit I have now. I've shot video after video after video and am nothing but impressed with the result. Here's a 360 video clip I shot yesterday, rolling down a steep path on a scooter, behind the Art Museum in Philadelphia.

https://youtu.be/qYNxqW8eV5g



Also, later today my wife is going to rappel down the side of the building wearing this camera, if all goes well I'll post that video tomorrow..
This is nice. Did you upgrade the firmware to the new beta one that shoots at 5.8K and yields a stitched video at 5.6K?

https://gopro.com/news/fusion-2-0-pu...irmware-update

And the official price is now $299, everywhere. tempting!

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Fusion 360 with Updated Firmware: 5.6K Video Demo


Select 2880s to see the quality (visible on any monitor).
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post #14 of 28 Old 05-16-2019, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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This is nice. Did you upgrade the firmware to the new beta one that shoots at 5.8K and yields a stitched video at 5.6K?

https://gopro.com/news/fusion-2-0-pu...irmware-update

And the official price is now $299, everywhere. tempting!
Yes, I did the firmware update to the beta. Thank you for mentioning that, I did it to the first camera, but forgot to do it to the second camera.

Here's a different clip from the same area. Two things to look out for, the lovely ladies practicing their twerking, and how the transition from scooter to climbing the staircase, back to the scooter is so smooth thanks to the stabilization.


The goal for today will be to get a clip or two of the 5.6K 24P video posted using a "maximum quality" workflow. I'm waiting for a FedEx pickup, so I am stuck inside my house.

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post #15 of 28 Old 05-18-2019, 10:23 PM
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Here is a Max 5.6K Resolution Fusion Sample

Static placement, so no stabilization in post needed. Shot in 5.8K Protune (flat), stitched and rendered in GoPro Fusion Studio in Cineform in 5.6K (660Mbps stitched file uploaded directly to YouTube).


Select 5K with the gear. There is definitely some loss of resolution in the YouTube versus the original version.

And, there is GPS. So, you know where this was shot.
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post #16 of 28 Old 05-19-2019, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Static placement, so no stabilization in post needed. Shot in 5.8K Protune (flat), stitched and rendered in GoPro Fusion Studio in Cineform in 5.6K (660Mbps stitched file uploaded directly to YouTube).

https://youtu.be/ltfeSzGNyag

Select 5K with the gear. There is definitely some loss of resolution in the YouTube versus the original version.

And, there is GPS. So, you know where this was shot.
I got the full 5.8K workflow going.

Looks good, did you use Fusion Studio 1.4 to stitch it? The stitch line is very clean.

Here's a stabilized segment shot in 5.8K using a helmet-mounted cam as I rode a scooter. I do wish that the horizon would stay straight, but it seems with helmet mounted cameras and scooters, the gyro gets confused.


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post #17 of 28 Old 05-19-2019, 10:35 AM
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I got the full 5.8K workflow going.

Looks good, did you use Fusion Studio 1.4 to stitch it? The stitch line is very clean.

Here's a stabilized segment shot in 5.8K using a helmet-mounted cam as I rode a scooter. I do wish that the horizon would stay straight, but it seems with helmet mounted cameras and scooters, the gyro gets confused.
Yes, Fusion Studio 1.4. It takes a while, but does a really good job.

Do you shoot in Protune? Fusion Studio automatically color grades it, and Protune is supposed to have better quality.
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Yes, Fusion Studio 1.4. It takes a while, but does a really good job.

Do you shoot in Protune? Fusion Studio automatically color grades it, and Protune is supposed to have better quality.
No, I forgot to do that, next outing.

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post #19 of 28 Old 05-19-2019, 02:49 PM
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What About a Video? Not Just a Clip: Test

Most of what you see are single stitched clips from the Fusion. But what if you want to create a video? merge together clips to tell a story or whatever. It is NOT so simple.

Fusion Studio produces a 5.6K Cineform or ProRes stitched clip. Each clip can be directly uploaded to Youtube and Youtube will recognize them as 360 and stream them that way. Many Windows editors, however, cannot ingest either type of video (Cineform or ProRes). And many cannot render a clip with greater resolution than 4K. Sony Vegas cannot read Cineform, and is limited to rendering 4K. So, no go.

Virb Edit (free) can merge and render 5.7K clips at 5.7K. But it cannot ingest either Cineform or ProRes clips. It looks for MP4 H264 clips.

So, as a test, my workflow:

1. Stitch multiple clips from the Fusion using Fusion Studio. This produces 360 Cineform clips.

2. Convert all the Cineform stitched clips to H264 MP4 clips that can be read by Virb Edit (150 Mbps).

3. Edit (merge, cut) the 360 MP4 clips in Verb Edit and render a 5.7K video of merged clips.

4. Inject the 360 metadata that YouTube needs to recognize a 360 video into the merged video.

5. Upload the injected, Virb Edit-produced 5.5K 360 video to YouTube.

View:


Anybody got a better idea for producing 360 videos (not single clips)?
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
Most of what you see are single stitched clips from the Fusion. But what if you want to create a video? merge together clips to tell a story or whatever. It is NOT so simple.

Fusion Studio produces a 5.6K Cineform or ProRes stitched clip. Each clip can be directly uploaded to Youtube and Youtube will recognize them as 360 and stream them that way. Many Windows editors, however, cannot ingest either type of video (Cineform or ProRes). And many cannot render a clip with greater resolution than 4K. Sony Vegas cannot read Cineform, and is limited to rendering 4K. So, no go.

Virb Edit (free) can merge and render 5.7K clips at 5.7K. But it cannot ingest either Cineform or ProRes clips. It looks for MP4 H264 clips.

So, as a test, my workflow:

1. Stitch multiple clips from the Fusion using Fusion Studio. This produces 360 Cineform clips.

2. Convert all the Cineform stitched clips to H264 MP4 clips that can be read by Virb Edit (150 Mbps).

3. Edit (merge, cut) the 360 MP4 clips in Verb Edit and render a 5.7K video of merged clips.

4. Inject the 360 metadata that YouTube needs to recognize a 360 video into the merged video.

5. Upload the injected, Virb Edit-produced 5.5K 360 video to YouTube.

View:

https://youtu.be/8lggq4E0cTw

Anybody got a better idea for producing 360 videos (not single clips)?
My wife used Premiere yesterday, just straight up edited the h.264 render from Fusion Studio, works like a charm. Multiple cuts in this video, and a sped up segment. Did not have to inject any metadata. Obviously Premiere is not free, but seems as simple as working with regular video. Have not tried it with the 5.8K output though, just 4K.


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post #21 of 28 Old 05-19-2019, 03:22 PM
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My wife used Premiere yesterday, just straight up edited the h.264 render from Fusion Studio, works. Multiple cuts in this video, and a sped up segment.

https://youtu.be/kuL990ufuIs
No, no. Fusion Studio does NOT produce/render h.264 clips in 5.6K. Only Cineform or ProRes. So those stitched clips were not 5.6K. Premiere will work with Cineform I think. But Adobe products are expensive. All the software I used are free.
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My wife used Premiere yesterday, just straight up edited the h.264 render from Fusion Studio, works. Multiple cuts in this video.
No, no. Fusion Studio does NOT produce/render h.264 clips in 5.6K. Only Cineform or ProRes. So those stitched clips were not 5.6K. Premiere will work with Cineform I think. But Adobe products are expensive. All the software I used are free.
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No, no. Fusion Studio does NOT produce/render h.264 clips in 5.6K. Only Cineform or ProRes. So those stitched clips were not 5.6K. Premiere will work with Cineform I think. But Adobe products are expensive. All the software I used are free.
Right, like I said "Have not tried it with the 5.8K output though, just 4K" if I had done Cineform it would have all taken too long. The absolute reality, of course, is that for here purposes the quality is good enough, not sweating that it's 4K.

As far as my uses go, the Fusion is my Street View capture machine, thanks to the built-in GPS. I'm using time lapse video (now 5.8K) to create the clips for Trailblazer software to ingest. But I don't see why it would be an issue.

GoPro's plugins are for Premiere and if you subscribe the cost of accessing the software for a project is not so high. I take it for granted to have the Adobe suite, been handind the company money for 25 year.

But, shooting video for posting on youTube/Facebook, the Insta360 One X has definitely stolen my heart. No question.

I definitely appreciate workflows based on free/provided software.

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Right, like I said "Have not tried it with the 5.8K output though, just 4K" if I had done Cineform it would have all taken too long. The absolute reality, of course, is that for here purposes the quality is good enough, not sweating that it's 4K.

As far as my uses go, the Fusion is my Street View capture machine, thanks to the built-in GPS. I'm using time lapse video (now 5.8K) to create the clips for Trailblazer software to ingest. But I don't see why it would be an issue.

GoPro's plugins are for Premiere and if you subscribe the cost of accessing the software for a project is not so high. I take it for granted to have the Adobe suite, been handind the company money for 25 year.

But, shooting video for posting on youTube/Facebook, the Insta360 One X has definitely stolen my heart. No question.

I definitely appreciate workflows based on free/provided software.
1. 4K is simply not good enough for 360 video. As your 4K videos demonstrate. As any 4K 360 video shows. I think your standards with regard to resolution are lower than those of most posters. You are entitled to hold any standards you want of course. The difference is visible on cell phones or tablets or TVs.

2. The 360rumors guy, who has compared all 360 cameras concludes that the Fusion 5K video is higher resolution, when viewed, with better dynamic range and less flare than that of the Insta 360 X. His comparison videos, carefully done, show this clearly. He ranks the Fusion video as higher quality. Having inspected his comparison videos and lots of others I agree with his expert opinion.

Fusion video software appears to be designed to work with Adobe Premiere. So that is a good workflow. My post was designed to show how to produce 5.6K 360 video from the Fusion for free. It may be easier to do that with the Insta, if one can tolerate the slightly lower IQ. I would not argue that the Insta 5K is much worse; just 4K from any camera is not tolerable for most for 360 video.
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1. 4K is simply not good enough for 360 video. As your 4K videos demonstrate. As any 4K 360 video shows. I think your standards with regard to resolution are lower than those of most posters. You are entitled to hold any standards you want of course. The difference is visible on cell phones or tablets or TVs.

2. The 360rumors guy, who has compared all 360 cameras concludes that the Fusion 5K video is higher resolution, when viewed, with better dynamic range and less flare than that of the Insta 360 X. His comparison videos, carefully done, show this clearly. He ranks the Fusion video as higher quality. Having inspected his comparison videos and lots of others I agree with his expert opinion.

Fusion video software appears to be designed to work with Adobe Premiere. So that is a good workflow. My post was designed to show how to produce 5.6K 360 video from the Fusion for free. It may be easier to do that with the Insta, if one can tolerate the slightly lower IQ. I would not argue that the Insta 5K is much worse; just 4K from any camera is not tolerable for most for 360 video.
Yes, yes, AVS Forum and all that. I get it. And...

IRL it's fine. I'm not posting here because I'm chasing ultimate quality, or doing some deep drill-down review.

"Not tolerable" to you and the other folks who lurk here that you are speaking for when you say "most posters" is so irrelevant in the real world, I'm not even sure what to say. I will just drink a beer and remember to have perspective. What else can I do, lol.

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post #26 of 28 Old 05-19-2019, 04:59 PM
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Yes, yes, AVS Forum and all that. I get it. And...

IRL it's fine. I'm not posting here because I'm chasing ultimate quality, or doing some deep drill-down review.

Not tolerable to you and the other folks who lurk here is so irrelevant in the real world, I will just drink a beer and remember to have perspective. What else can I do, lol.
This the real world too. In any case you are posting to this part of it. 360 video is a very rarefied part of media: I doubt you have any clue what the 360 world is like. I don't either, but I know who is here and at many other relevant forums. The number 1 complaint about 360 video on all sites I have visited is low resolution.
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post #27 of 28 Old 05-19-2019, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
This the real world too. In any case you are posting to this part of it. 360 video is a very rarefied part of media: I doubt you have any clue what the 360 world is like. I don't either, but I know who is here and at many other relevant forums. The number 1 complaint about 360 video on all sites I have visited is low resolution.
I wouldn't expect enthusiasts to be any different than what you described. And of course I would expect sites that concentrate on this to include a large number of enthusiasts who feel that way. It's the essence of being an enthusiast. Yes, it's true, for 360 and VR, resolution is not where it should be.

Anyhow, I am familiar with forums and what AVS Forum is like, certainly. Hence my next beer, well deserved I assure you.

But I can't tell you, I could care less (not in any derogatory sense just pragmatically) what the "world of 360" is like, I'm more interested in how regular people respond to it. As I said in a previous post,if people want to be snobbish, they can go right ahead and do that. I think it's a great medium, I don't think that most people crave more resolution than with these cameras provide, especially not when viewing on their phones.

But for enthusiasts... I'm sure that Technicolor is ballpark correct in stating that 8K per eye, 120 frames per second, with 16 f-stops of dynamic range and rec.2020 color is where it's going to have to be to have VR be "believable."

Presumably it's the same divide between MP3 and earbuds being good enough for most people, and what audio enthusiasts demand of their systems and a recording.

Having said that, the fastest growing section on AVS Forum is.... Drumroll please.... soundbars. It's a brave new world.

Having said that, if was getting "serious" about 360 I'd buy something like the Insta360 Pro II in a heartbeat. That's not anywhere near happening so right now my focus is on consumer experience, and vlogging, not pro.

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Last edited by imagic; 05-19-2019 at 05:36 PM.
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post #28 of 28 Old 05-27-2019, 03:56 AM - Thread Starter
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GoPro Fusion footage, captured at 5.8K/24p with Protune, rendered using Cineform 4:2:2 CODEC.

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