Fake 8K - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By Tom Roper
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 02-19-2020, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tom Roper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 4,569
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 471 Post(s)
Liked: 436
Fake 8K

I shot a bit of footage with the BMD Pocket at 6K 50 FPS and upscaled it to 8K for YouTube. Doesn't seem to have any adverse effects.

RobKnapp likes this.

HDR Colorist and Conversions
INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS
Tom Roper is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 02-20-2020, 11:50 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,307
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7433 Post(s)
Liked: 8325
I watched this on a 5K iMac, so 'perhaps' I was seeing 5K. Either way, the difference between watching this with a 4K setting on Chrome vs 8K was slight. I would have been more curious to see the video shot in 4K and rendered in 4K and then shot in 6K and rendered back in 4K. That's the only real advantage I see to shooting in resolutions greater than 4K.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #3 of 13 Old 02-20-2020, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tom Roper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 4,569
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 471 Post(s)
Liked: 436
If I downsampled 6k to 4k I should get a nicer 4k or so it’s said, but it’s still been reduced to 4k resolution. If I upsampled 6k to 8k, it’s still only 6K true resolution but somebody with an 8k television would be seeing the 6k, better than if he received 4K, right? I realize this would be hard to spot, maybe just folly but you thought you might have been seeing it in 5K, which by all rights, you were.

HDR Colorist and Conversions
INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS
Tom Roper is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 13 Old 02-20-2020, 01:16 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,307
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7433 Post(s)
Liked: 8325
Tom, the answer to your question on how the 6K would look on an 8K display would depend on how well that 8K display upscales 6K to 8K. I suspect upscaling 4K to 8K on an 8K TV might actually be an easier task than 6K to 8K.

There are many viewers out there that still feel HD looks better on a true HDTV than it does on most UHD TVs, despite manufacturer's claims.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #5 of 13 Old 02-20-2020, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tom Roper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 4,569
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 471 Post(s)
Liked: 436
Except the 8k tv isn’t being asked to upscale, it’s already receiving 8k 7680 x 4320.

HDR Colorist and Conversions
INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS
Tom Roper is offline  
post #6 of 13 Old 02-20-2020, 04:59 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,307
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7433 Post(s)
Liked: 8325
Right. I was talking about a native 6K file displayed on an 8K TV. I know you already did the upscaling.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #7 of 13 Old 02-20-2020, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tom Roper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 4,569
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 471 Post(s)
Liked: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Right. I was talking about a native 6K file displayed on an 8K TV. I know you already did the upscaling.
I don't think Resolve allows you to render out a 6K file. At least I was unsuccessful. You can set your project properties to anything you want, in this case 6144 x 3456, you can edit and grade, but when it comes time to render your output file, it has to be in HD, UHD, 4K-DCI, 8K. There is also a custom setting for the render you can choose for a custom frame size, in this case 6144x3456 but in spite of it all, it doesn't work; the render always failed. So whether that is a bug or a restriction or user error I don't know. Do you know if the LG, Apple, Sony, Samsung, TCL, Vizio tv's will scale 6K? My thinking is that they don't. 6K a bastard format for intended for acquisition but not output.

HDR Colorist and Conversions
INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS
Tom Roper is offline  
post #8 of 13 Old 02-20-2020, 07:48 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,307
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7433 Post(s)
Liked: 8325
Tom, I’m not 100% if native 6K would be an allowed resolution. However if I was betting, based on some of the oddball resolutions I’ve seen output from graphics cards between 2K & UHD and successfully displayed on UHD displays, I’d say there’s a decent chance.

If you’re eventually successful in creating a 6K file, you can take that over to a Best Buy and try inputting it into an 8K LG OLED or Samsung LCD. However I’d bet your only shot would be over HDMI and not one of the USB inputs.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #9 of 13 Old 02-21-2020, 01:21 AM
Member
 
Cloudstrewn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post
I shot a bit of footage with the BMD Pocket at 6K 50 FPS and upscaled it to 8K for YouTube. Doesn't seem to have any adverse effects.
Only have a 4K monitor, and looks fine on that as you would expect.

At one point I thought I detected a little sharpening-type haloing, but that seemed to disappear quickly so probably just me. I wondered though if you upscaled with the standard bicubic or similar methods - which can produce haloing, or the more recent "smart/detail-preserving", which shouldn't?
Cloudstrewn is offline  
post #10 of 13 Old 02-21-2020, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tom Roper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 4,569
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 471 Post(s)
Liked: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudstrewn View Post
Only have a 4K monitor, and looks fine on that as you would expect.

At one point I thought I detected a little sharpening-type haloing, but that seemed to disappear quickly so probably just me. I wondered though if you upscaled with the standard bicubic or similar methods - which can produce haloing, or the more recent "smart/detail-preserving", which shouldn't?
Resolve presents 5 options for rescaling:
1.) Sharper
2.) Smoother
3.) Bicubic
4.) Bilinear
5.) Supersample

Supersample is the newest and most advanced but seems intended for upscaling 1080p to 8k, the scaling choices limited to 2:1, 3;1, 4:1. I used the default setting which is sharper. I shot the clips in 12 bit BRAW with no grading, exactly as it came out of the camera.

Linked is an article about Resolve scaling features. https://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/res...scale-feature/

@Ken Ross - I will try some more to see if I can get a 6K output file. It failed on HEVC and h.264. Perhaps there is another codec that will work. Whether such codec is compatible with LG/Sony/Vizio/Samsung/TCL tvs could be the question. But let's assume I am able to get a playable 6K file, it still has to upscale to 8K to fill the screen, so not sure why this would be any different than having Resolve take it to 8k and bypass the tv scaler. Smaller file maybe.

HDR Colorist and Conversions
INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS
Tom Roper is offline  
post #11 of 13 Old 02-21-2020, 12:23 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,307
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7433 Post(s)
Liked: 8325
Tom, the exercise would serve only to determine which is the better upscaler, the one built into the TV or the Resolve software. We go through this all the time with other equipment such as satellite boxes & BluRay players. In some cases the box might do a better job and in other cases the TV's scaler might be the better pick. As an example, Oppo BluRay players were always known to have excellent scalers and most owners chose to use them when outputting an HD BluRay to their UHD TVs rather than have their TV do the HD>UHD conversion.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #12 of 13 Old 02-22-2020, 01:49 AM
Member
 
Cloudstrewn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post
Resolve presents 5 options for rescaling:
1.) Sharper
2.) Smoother
3.) Bicubic
4.) Bilinear
5.) Supersample

Supersample is the newest and most advanced but seems intended for upscaling 1080p to 8k, the scaling choices limited to 2:1, 3;1, 4:1. I used the default setting which is sharper. I shot the clips in 12 bit BRAW with no grading, exactly as it came out of the camera.
Bit unfortunate that Resolve limits you like that. "detail-preserving upscale" in After Effects allows any scale factor over 1.0. It's useful if the original is highly-detailed (as will yours be) but tends to amplify any noise and is very slow for big scaling.

Doing a single bicubic transformation in post-processing shouldn't cause much problem, but I avoid using it if I need to do several in a row, preferring bilinear here possibly with separate sharpening at the end.

Incidentally, After Effects will render any size if the codec supports it. 6K certainly works ok with eg avi and tiff,targa sequences etc.
Cloudstrewn is offline  
post #13 of 13 Old 02-26-2020, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tom Roper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 4,569
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 471 Post(s)
Liked: 436
Here is a 6K encode of the same file. I don't see any significant difference.


HDR Colorist and Conversions
INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS
Tom Roper is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Camcorders

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off