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post #31 of 95 Old 01-28-2010, 01:28 PM
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crazy cool setup.....

that is some $$ gear!
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post #32 of 95 Old 01-28-2010, 05:30 PM
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I'll have to watch those kaleidescape videos sometime. I'd probably love a system, however I'm sure it's way over my budget (which is close to $0 now, I'm about to order a new LCD ). I'm one of those poor college students.

I've looked at many of the Digital Media products from Simpl Windows (along with seeing a demo/presentation on it). Looking at how to program a system usually tells me more of what I want to know faster than reading documentation/brochures. So far I really like what I've seen. Only other thing I think would be useful is optional scalers on input/output cards.
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post #33 of 95 Old 02-16-2010, 09:54 AM
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Has anyone tried the USB routing on the DM ? I think its absolutely cool that they've included USB input/outputs on the DM units. So, essentially you can put a keyboard in to a particular location and route that back to whatever source you've switched to. So essentially you can remote PC's as well. Though haven't tried with switching a wireless USB key yet. . ..

Outside of that - the DM looks to be a great unit. No one else really has a commercial unit working like it and have no complaints about it (outside of its price point - which is absurd).
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post #34 of 95 Old 02-16-2010, 08:46 PM
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James,

What is the maximum range you are using your wii controllers? If I wanted to centrally located my PS3, am I just dependent on the bluetooth distance? I see that there is a usb port on the DM unit, would I have to plug the PS3 controller into it or into an adapter then into it in order to use my PS3 when bluetooth is out of range? Seems like a pain to be using a cable connected to a hidden box behind my TV. Any time frame on when you are going to post your schematics?
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post #35 of 95 Old 02-17-2010, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthem View Post

Has anyone tried the USB routing on the DM ? I think its absolutely cool that they've included USB input/outputs on the DM units. So, essentially you can put a keyboard in to a particular location and route that back to whatever source you've switched to. So essentially you can remote PC's as well. Though haven't tried with switching a wireless USB key yet. . .. .

I have tried it with both wireless (w/Dongle)and wired Keyboards and it works fine. I've installed this on systems that had multiple mac mini's and it worked pretty much perfectly.

"I'm just a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it"
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post #36 of 95 Old 02-18-2010, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthem View Post

Has anyone tried the USB routing on the DM ? I think its absolutely cool that they've included USB input/outputs on the DM units. So, essentially you can put a keyboard in to a particular location and route that back to whatever source you've switched to. So essentially you can remote PC's as well.

The USB port on the DM-RMC-100(F), and all the ports for that matter, work flawlessly. I have the USB port on the HDMI from the DM 8x8 connected to my MacPro. At each DM-RMC-100-F I have a USB wireless dongle attached so I can use my MacPro at any location in the house.
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post #37 of 95 Old 02-18-2010, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pchannan View Post

James,
What is the maximum range you are using your wii controllers?

The farthest I use it is about 40ft. and it worked without any issues at all. I use the Nyko wireless Wii bar and there are only 2 players at a time playing, my wife and I (we do not have any kids). I do not know if the number of players (Traffic) may have an effect on distance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pchannan View Post

If I wanted to centrally located my PS3, am I just dependent on the bluetooth distance? I see that there is a usb port on the DM unit, would I have to plug the PS3 controller into it or into an adapter then into it in order to use my PS3 when bluetooth is out of range?

I have not done a DM install with a PS3 as a source so I can not give you a definitive answer on that. Maybe I will get a PS3 and try it.

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Originally Posted by pchannan View Post

Any time frame on when you are going to post your schematics?

I have a VERY rough draft done that I am thinking of posting but I have not had time to really put together a detailed design plan. The rough draft I do have is more of a connection diagram that shows how all the sources (Inputs) are connected to the DM system and how all the Displays are feed (Output). Maybe I will clean it up over the next few days and post it by Sunday.
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post #38 of 95 Old 02-18-2010, 09:27 AM
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thanks James, I know there is a burning question for you over at the c4forums website regarding the “Analog Sunset” and "January 1, 2011, software manufacturers will be able to insert something called an Image Constraint Token into any Blu-ray disc. This bit of digital information will turn the high-definition component video output OFF the player(s).”

People are concerned that their current component distribution will be negated to SD. It's one of the issues I'm watching in order to decide Crestron & DM vs C4.

http://www.c4forums.com/viewtopic.php?id=5063
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post #39 of 95 Old 02-18-2010, 01:31 PM
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James,

are you using Cresnet or another brand of 10Gb, Multimode, 50 Micron, SC/SC Fiber as you mentioned in your C4forums post?

Do you have a computer network in your house? If so (or not), would you recomend running a separate Cat 5e/6 network for just computer stuff (file sharing, central computer backup, sharing internet from router) or just use the 10/100 ethernet you can get from your fibre run? I plan on running a central file server in my rack which will have dual intel gigabit ethernet ports which I believe will have to be run to the DM (if I went that route). I think I'll have to use one port for my home computer network and one port for the DM. I will be backing up my blu-rays on my desktop in my office and I'll have to transfer the files to the server and hence would like a gigabit backbone for this.
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post #40 of 95 Old 02-18-2010, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pchannan View Post

James,

are you using Cresnet or another brand of 10Gb, Multimode, 50 Micron, SC/SC Fiber as you mentioned in your C4forums post?

Do you have a computer network in your house? If so (or not), would you recomend running a separate Cat 5e/6 network for just computer stuff (file sharing, central computer backup, sharing internet from router) or just use the 10/100 ethernet you can get from your fibre run? I plan on running a central file server in my rack which will have dual intel gigabit ethernet ports which I believe will have to be run to the DM (if I went that route). I think I'll have to use one port for my home computer network and one port for the DM. I will be backing up my blu-rays on my desktop in my office and I'll have to transfer the files to the server and hence would like a gigabit backbone for this.

I think you are mistaking the network aspect and the hdmi matrix functions. The HD matrix doesn't feed your HD video via TCP/IP that you feed it. it takes HDMI signal and delivers it via cat cable or fiber. Now I believe it is most like tcp/ip encoded and delivered but that's encapsulated and hidden from you. It provisions each of the boxes as tcp ip boxes with ip addresses but its over it's own fiber/cat connections and NOT through a separate switch. In other words the matrix switch is acting as a switch for the end point devices behind the unit (if you deliver via cat/fiber - and not just hdmi out.

So, basically you are going to feed an hdmi signal from your players/servers to the matrix to feed out from there (not taking m2ts, ISO, mkv).

Now, in terms of network. I would say you should implement a private network for crestron stuff and another network for client related computer stuff. . Now, if you are fully in control of the client network as well, then you could conceivably put the two together - especially with VLANs if you are familiar with them. However vlans get you into enterprise stuff - especially if you want bdpu guard stuff and a few other things. And since a high-end cisco switch that does this runs into a couple grand to 10 grand, you might want to consider separate lan units.
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post #41 of 95 Old 02-26-2010, 01:49 PM
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Do you have the serial commands for ON and Off for the Samsung LED TV ?
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post #42 of 95 Old 02-26-2010, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phuge611 View Post

Do you have the serial commands for ON and Off for the Samsung LED TV ?

You mean CEC codes as the Samsung LED TV does not have a serial (RS-232) port.

Before I post the codes keep in mind the following.

1) These are from the 1.3 HDMI specification

2) You need to download the 1.3 HDMI Specification for detailed instruction on implementing CEC commands.

3) I have only used these codes within a Crestron DM (Digital Media) environment. The reason I am saying this is it's the only system that I know of where you can actually manage the CEC channel directly within HDMI. This is important because without being able to manage the CEC channel you will more than likely get undesirable results. Ex. Shutting off the TV in one room will turn off the TV, DVD Player, Receiver, etc in another room.

4) I will not review, debug or help anyone with their code nor will I answer any questions anyone may have. You are on your own. Not to be mean but I really do not have the time.

5) Codes other than PON/POF I will not post as, again, I do not have the time. The only reason I am posting these codes because 1) I have had quite a few requests and 2) they are the most common commands needed/requested.

6) The code I am posting are the generic CEC codes that are specified in the HDMI 1.3 agreement. Besides the generic codes manufacturers can, and do, create their own CEC codes. You will have to check with each manufacturer for their specific CEC codes. I will not be posting any manufacturer codes.

The CEC POF & PON codes are as follows.
Power Off (POF) - 0x6C
Power On (PON) - 0x6D
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post #43 of 95 Old 03-09-2010, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGo Delicious View Post

The CEC POF & PON codes are as follows.
Power Off (POF) - 0x6C
Power On (PON) - 0x6D

In my previous post I gave the HDMI 1.3 CEC codes for PON & POF (Power On & Power Off respectively) what I failed to mention is how to use those codes. Just using 0x6C\
or 0x6D\
will not work. You need to send CEC commands (Messages) in what are called "CEC Frames."

I will explain the components of a CEC Frame but in order to construct a working CEC Frame you will need to down load the HDMI 1.3 or 1.4 Specification from HDMI, LLC. This will give you all the Codes, Values, Descriptions & Parameters. In the examples below I am using the HDMI 1.3 Specification.

CEC Frame
A CEC message is conveyed over the control signal line in a single frame; a frame is a self-contained unit consisting of a start bit followed by a number of data bits.

I will give a very general description of a CEC frame and describe each section but before I do be aware that each HDMI device has a address field (Logical Address) and data is sent via these Logical Address's

A CEC Framed is comprised of the following;
1) Start Bit
2) Header Block
3) Data Block 1 (Which is called the OPCode Block)
4) Data Block 2 (Which is called the OPerand Blocks and is optional depending on the OPCode in 3 above)

Below is table that describes the CEC Frame components.

Source: HDMI 1.3 Specification

CEC Frame Components.
1) The Start Bit
The Start Bit is required to initiate a CEC Frame. For more on the Start Bit read the HDMI 1.3 Specification.

2) Header Block
The header block consists of the source (initiator) logical address field, the destination logical address field, the end of message bit (EOM) and the acknowledge bit (ACK). See image below.


Source: HDMI 1.3 Specification

In the example above the source (initiator) address and the destination address would be different. The initiator logical address field is used to identify the initiator of the current frame. The logical address of the initiator is written in this field and the field consists of bits one to four of the header block.

The destination logical address field is used to identify the destination of the CEC frame. The logical address of the destination is written in this field. The field consists of bits five to eight of the header block.

A message with the EOM bit set in the Header Block can be used to ping' other devices, to ascertain if they are powered on. This is the .

3) Data Block
All CEC Frames will have at least "Data Block 1" and depending on the CEC message may have "Data Block 2."
All Data Blocks (1& 2) are ten bits long and have the same basic structure as shown below.


Source: HDMI 1.3 Specification

EOM
If you are sending a CEC message in "Data Block 1" that does not require an Operand Block "Data Block 2" then you would put a 1 in the "EOM" field which specifies that no more data blocks are to follow and the message is complete.

If you are sending a CEC message in "Data Block 1" that does require an Operand Block "Data Block 2" then you would put a 0 in the "EOM" field which specifies one or more data blocks are to follow.

ACK
The ACK bit is used by follower(s) (destination) to acknowledge the data or header block sent by the initiator (sender). For more on the ACK bit read the HDMI 1.3 Specification.

The above is just an intro. on how to construct a CEC Frame in order to send a CEC Command (Messaage). Again, in order to format a proper and working CEC Frame you will need to down load the HDMI 1.3 or 1.4 Specification from HDMI, LLC. The HDMI Specification Guide will give you all the Codes, Values, Descriptions & Parameters needed to construct a proper CEC Frame.
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post #44 of 95 Old 03-30-2010, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGo Delicious View Post

I purchase most (almost all) of my fiber from The Fiber Optic Cable Shop.

Would you mind telling me which fiber optic model did you buy from The Fiber Optic Cable Shop that is compatible with Crestron DM Fiber Input Card w/Down-mixing for DigitalMedia™ Switchers ???

I'm planning to buy from them 8 x 300 feet lengths pre-terminated fiber Optic cable.

50 /125 Multi-mode or 50 /125 Single mode ?

Simplex or Duplex ?

How easy it is to terminate the cable?

Thanks for your help.

Guliver
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post #45 of 95 Old 03-30-2010, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guliver View Post

Would you mind telling me which fiber optic model did you buy from The Fiber Optic Cable Shop that is compatible with Crestron DM Fiber Input Card w/Down-mixing for DigitalMedia™ Switchers ???

I'm not GoGo, but I can answer some of your questions. Any decent quality 50/125 fiber with SC connectors will work with DM gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guliver View Post

50 /125 Multi-mode or 50 /125 Single mode ?

All 50/125 fiber is multimode. Singlemode fiber is like 9/125.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guliver View Post

Simplex or Duplex ?

Duplex is required. If you're able to easily re-pull the fiber (conduit), then it may be ok. If you're installing the fiber more perminantly, you'll want at least 2 pairs, in case one breaks (or for future expansion). I'd try to do at least 8 strand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guliver View Post

How easy it is to terminate the cable?

It depends on the terminations you use, but it takes a little work. The biggest thing is the tools required cost several thousand dollars. If you want a tester, that's another thousand dollars.


I'll also add - if you're planning to DIY a Crestron system, you should really re-evaluate your plans. As has been discussed many times, it's not a system for DIYers, you need to contact a dealer.
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post #46 of 95 Old 04-14-2010, 09:07 PM
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James, How did you route Audio and Video independently? Want to do the same thing.

Problem is that Audio on the KAleidescape is mixed on the HDMI ou also carry Video !!! You maybe output the audio from the two sources in coax digital audio to do that. Only drawback is that you loose the DTS HD or Dolby HD sound only available from the HDMI audio source ...
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post #47 of 95 Old 04-15-2010, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guliver View Post

James, How did you route Audio and Video independently? Want to do the same thing.

Problem is that Audio on the KAleidescape is mixed on the HDMI ou also carry Video !!! You maybe output the audio from the two sources in coax digital audio to do that. Only drawback is that you loose the DTS HD or Dolby HD sound only available from the HDMI audio source ...

Kaleidescape does not support DTS HD or Dolby HD as of yet. It will when the Blue Laser Player is released.

I am using the DMCO-13 see image below




The fiber outs are going to the DM-RMC-100-F for video & data only. As far as routing audio goes, all audio is routed from the HDMI outs on the DMCO-13 to a receiver.

Below is a drawing of how I am routing video & audio (using HDMI) out from the DMCO-13's. Note: All the receivers are centralized in a rack. In the drawing below I am showing them in the rooms just for wiring layout purposes only.


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post #48 of 95 Old 04-15-2010, 08:45 PM
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Also, an FYI, the DM8x8 (and I assume all DM matricies) will do independent audio-video routing. I can't say for sure that it works, but it's possible in the programming. For more info, give Crestron a call.
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post #49 of 95 Old 04-15-2010, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntp View Post

Also, an FYI, the DM8x8 (and I assume all DM matricies) will do independent audio-video routing. I can't say for sure that it works, but it's possible in the programming. For more info, give Crestron a call.

The entire DM line (8x8, 16x16 & 32x32, (64x64 & 128x128 coming soon to a trade show near you )) is designed to switch Audio, Video & USB independently of each other.

I currently use the "Living Room" Kaleidescape player as the whole house audio player. I have one button on all the TP's through out the house called, "Whole House Audio", that does the following.
1) Starts up all receivers and set's the volume level
2) Switches the DM 8x8's source to the "Living Room Player".
3) Switches the DM 8x8's output to all 4 receivers
4) Brings up the Kaleidescape Music interface on the Touch Panels.

From any of the touch panels in the house I can select any album, play list, or song from Kaleidescape as usual. I can also control the volume of each room independently (which I prefer) or together as one (which my wife prefers).
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post #50 of 95 Old 04-15-2010, 10:21 PM
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Very nice setup!

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(a bunch of good reference links and material in first 15 posts)
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post #51 of 95 Old 04-15-2010, 11:48 PM
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James,

So this means that your receivers aren't centrally stacked? If I wanted everything centrally stacked, does it make the distribution much more complicated?
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post #52 of 95 Old 04-16-2010, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pchannan View Post

James,

So this means that your receivers aren't centrally stacked? If I wanted everything centrally stacked, does it make the distribution much more complicated?

All equipment is centrally located in a rack. In a previous post I stated ". . . all equipment is centrally located in a rack so the HDMI runs to the receiver are 3ft. at the longest." Actually the longest is 4ft.

HERE are a couple of screen shots of my rack. The receivers, which are not in the pictures, are below the Kaleidescape players.
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post #53 of 95 Old 04-16-2010, 10:29 PM
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Sorry, from the wiring diagram, it seemed like the receivers were located in separate rooms. You're using HDMI to route only audio to the receivers in the rack which then must connect to speaker wire run directly to each receiver. You're using fibre to route video and ethernet.

I understand now, I think
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post #54 of 95 Old 04-17-2010, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pchannan View Post

Sorry, from the wiring diagram, it seemed like the receivers were located in separate rooms.

I should have pointed out the drawing is just to show the connections to and from the DM 8x8 and not a true equipment layout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pchannan View Post

You're using HDMI to route only audio to the receivers in the rack which then must connect to speaker wire run directly to each receiver. You're using fibre to route video and ethernet.

Correct. That's exactly how I am doing it.

Besides carrying video & ethernet to each display location, the fiber is also carrying audio (which I am not using since I have all audio going through HDMI and into the receivers), RS-232, IR, USB, Relay and Digital/Contact.
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post #55 of 95 Old 04-19-2010, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGo Delicious View Post

The entire DM line (8x8, 16x16 & 32x32, (64x64 & 128x128 coming soon to a trade show near you )) is designed to switch Audio, Video & USB independently of each other.

I knew a 64x64 was comming out soon, didn't know there was a 128x128 on the way (although it makes sense).

Just imagine the backplane on that bad boy. At 10 GBps + per port.....that's a LOT of bandwidth.
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post #56 of 95 Old 04-23-2010, 03:11 PM
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omg this is digital porn... im such a nerd... drool...

HT: JVC DLA-X3 / Marantz 7703 / B&K 125.7 / Parasound A21 - HTPC / Oppo UDP-203 / ATV 4K - Zaph Audio ZRT 2.5 / Speakercraft Tantra / DefTech / JL Audio Fathom F110 / REL R505 [5.4.2 Setup]
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post #57 of 95 Old 04-23-2010, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Now that I have finished my DM 8x8 project I am planning on upgrading to the DM 32x32, adding the DVPHD w/ Guide Bar, a V-15 Touch Panel and a Panasonic Plasma with a TP overlay.

You may ask yourself "Why is he doing this"?

Well one we use our home as a show room, 2 we work mostly with Architects and Interior designers and I want to show them what we can do no matter if it's residential design, boardroom, sports bar or digital signage and 3 my father-in-law is a huge sports fan so I figured he will have a blast coming over and being able to watch/view up to 8 NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL/etc games at once.

When will I start on this project? For starters, I am waiting for the DM 32x32 to be released. Crestron says it will be released in April, but I am thinking maybe May or June. Second, we have a large project starting in June that will take us to September and in September we have CEDIA. So I am looking at the end of September beginning of October to start.

Why a DM 32x32 instead of a DM 16x16?
A DM 16x16 requires the IO Cards to be factory installed by Crestron whereas the DM 32x32 are field configurable. I will be transferring all the IO cards in my current 8x8 to the new DM 32x32 and I will be adding quite a few more.

To get an idea of what I want to accomplish, you can view video of how a Crestron DVPHD w/ Guide Bar works and what it can display.
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post #58 of 95 Old 04-23-2010, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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omg this is digital porn... im such a nerd... drool...

Thats funny
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post #59 of 95 Old 04-23-2010, 03:52 PM
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Now that I have finished my DM 8x8 project I am planning on upgrading to the DM 32x32, adding the DVPHD w/ Guide Bar, a V-15 Touch Panel and a Panasonic Plasma with a TP overlay.

You may ask yourself "Why is he doing this"?

Well one we use our home as a show room, 2 we work mostly with Architects and Interior designers and I want to show them what we can do no matter if it's residential design, boardroom, sports bar or digital signage and 3 my father-in-law is a huge sports fan so I figured he will have a blast coming over and being able to watch/view up to 8 NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL/etc games at once.

When will I start on this project? For starters, I am waiting for the DM 32x32 to be released. Crestron says it will be released in April, but I am thinking maybe May or June. Second, we have a large project starting in June that will take us to September and in September we have CEDIA. So I am looking at the end of September beginning of October to start.

Why a DM 32x32 instead of a DM 16x16?
A DM 16x16 requires the IO Cards to be factory installed by Crestron whereas the DM 32x32 are field configurable. I will be transferring all the IO cards in my current 8x8 to the new DM 32x32 and I will be adding quite a few more.

To get an idea of what I want to accomplish, you can view video of how a Crestron DVPHD w/ Guide Bar works and what it can display.

FYI - If any one is interested I will be selling the DM 8x8 (sans the IO cards) once the project is complete.

Now THAT will be some serious A/V porn! I hope you post pictures and diagrams when you're done.

As a side note: how are you planning to connect the DVPHD to the matrix? Are you just going to have 4 outs of the DM to the DVPHD, then the output of the DVPHD back into the DM to route it to different displays? We're looking into ways of tying a DVPHD and a DM-8x8 in a two-projector setup.

Also - how are you planning to use the guidebar functionality in a home-type setup? I can see using a DVPHD in home, but I'm not sure what you'd do with the GB feature.

-Drew

And, I'll buy the 8x8 if you're willing to sell it stupid cheap - but I will give it a good home!
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post #60 of 95 Old 04-23-2010, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Now THAT will be some serious A/V porn! I hope you post pictures and diagrams when you're done.

I will. I will probably start a new thread.

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As a side note: how are you planning to connect the DVPHD to the matrix? Are you just going to have 4 outs of the DM to the DVPHD, then the output of the DVPHD back into the DM to route it to different displays?

Thats exactly how I am going to do it.

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Also - how are you planning to use the guidebar functionality in a home-type setup? I can see using a DVPHD in home, but I'm not sure what you'd do with the GB feature.

The GB will be used primarily for commercial client demos to show them what can be done in the boardroom, classroom, court room, etc.

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And, I'll buy the 8x8 if you're willing to sell it stupid cheap - but I will give it a good home!

I have already received a PM regarding the DM 8x8. Once I am ready to sell it I will let all those who express interest know and at what price.
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