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post #61 of 95 Old 04-23-2010, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by GoGo Delicious View Post

The GB will be used primarily for commercial client demos to show them what cam be done in the boardroom, classroom, court room, etc.

Ah, I see. We're using the DVPHD-GB with a cheap 1080p panel and a 1280x800 projector. Having a few issues with the Crestron gear, but it works well, and we have tons of touch panel real estate.

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I have already received a PM regarding the DM 8x8. Once I am ready to sell it I will let all those who express interest know and at what price.

You can go ahead and take me off the list - I'm a poor colege kid
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post #62 of 95 Old 05-12-2010, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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As I mentioned in a previous post, which you can read HERE, I will be upgrading my DM 8x8 to a DM 32x32 and adding a few other goodies.

For those of you intrested here is a pic, front and back, of what the DM 32x32 looks like.



Just as in my original DM 8x8 install, the entire system will be fiber based.

More to come . . . .
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post #63 of 95 Old 05-13-2010, 03:48 AM
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I guess it doesn't run to hot. It only needs 8 cooling fans.

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #64 of 95 Old 05-13-2010, 08:48 PM
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Hey, the thing's only got a 320Gbps+ backplane....
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post #65 of 95 Old 05-17-2010, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGo Delicious View Post

Kaleidescape does not support DTS HD or Dolby HD as of yet. It will when the Blue Laser Player is released.

I am using the DMCO-13 see image below




The fiber outs are going to the DM-RMC-100-F for video & data only. As far as routing audio goes, all audio is routed from the HDMI outs on the DMCO-13 to a receiver.

Below is a drawing of how I am routing video & audio (using HDMI) out from the DMCO-13's. Note: All the receivers are centralized in a rack. In the drawing below I am showing them in the rooms just for wiring layout purposes only.



James,
Great thread and I am convinced so far by the Crestron DM capabilities.
I have a requirement to build a fiber network across four locations which are from 200 to 600ft apart. I will be upgrading my complete system, which will include the 4 x Kaleidescape players to Bluray currently running over a CAT6 LAN network.
Requirements also include support of 2x Sat Rx, PS3, Pioneer Bluray, Mark Levinson DVD, Pioneer HD Laser Disc, JVC HD Tape, Toshiba HD player, DCI projector, 2 x 60" Pioneer Kuro's, Pansonic 50", new 46' Samsung and 3 x Macs.
At present all this is controlled by an AMX control system and I certainly do not want to rewrite 10's of thousands of lines of code.
So the big question how do you control the input selection from a touch panel so that by just selecting the device you automatically set the DM to pre programed settings.
I note there is no RS232 i/p, so can one get access to the command structure through the LAN port, does the DM support a Telnet connection, or to achieve automatic control will I need other Crestron equipment?
If it has a) an IP address and b) a port which it listens on and you can connect to via TCP/IP, and c) a published API protocol you can use when a connection is established to send and receive commands, then the AMX could control it. The question is, can you control the unit by establishing a telnet session to the IP address using the provided port number?, and when you have, do you have a list of commands you can then use to send and receive instructions and acknowledgements?
Could you also direct me to a list price for the DM chassis and modules.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Des
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post #66 of 95 Old 05-17-2010, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multimedes View Post

James,
Great thread

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by multimedes View Post

At present all this is controlled by an AMX control system and I certainly do not want to rewrite 10's of thousands of lines of code.So the big question how do you control the input selection from a touch panel so that by just selecting the device you automatically set the DM to pre programed settings.
I note there is no RS232 i/p, so can one get access to the command structure through the LAN port, does the DM support a Telenet connection, or to achieve automatic control will I need other Crestron equipment?

To achieve "automatic control", the entire DM system has to be controlled by a Crestron processor (you can manually switch sources/displays through the front panel) and is controlled via IP using the LAN port. If you want to use a DM switcher, 8x8, 16x16 or 32x32, at minimum you will need to install a Crestron controller, such as an CP2e, AV2 or a Pro2 (which is what I am using), to name a few. For TP control you can use an iPhone or iPad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by multimedes View Post

Could you also direct me to a list price for the DM chassis and modules.

As far as list pricing goes you can contact us or any other Crestron dealer as there are many, many options in configuring a DM system. You can go to the Crestron DigitalMedia section of Crestrons website and look at what Switchers, 8x8 or 32x32, you may need, what Input Cards you will need/want and what type of Output Cards you will want (all fiber, Fiber/HDMI mix, Fiber/Crestron DM mix, etc).

Hope that helps.
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post #67 of 95 Old 05-17-2010, 07:02 PM
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Quote:


As far as list pricing goes you can contact us or any other Crestron dealer as there are many, many options in configuring a DM system. You can go to the Crestron DigitalMedia section of Crestrons website and look at what Switchers, 8x8 or 32x32, you may need, what Input Cards you will need/want and what type of Output Cards you will want (all fiber, Fiber/HDMI mix, Fiber/Crestron DM mix, etc).

Thanks James,
I have looked at the configuration and come up with the following:

DM Switcher Configuration
Created: 5/17/2010
Qty Model (Switcher)
1 DM-MD16X16 - 16x16 DigitalMedia Switcher
Qty Model (Input Cards)
8 DMC-HD-DSP - HDMI Input Card w/Down-mixing for DM Switchers
3 DMC-VID-BNC - BNC Analog Video Input Card for DM Switchers
1 DMC-VID4 - Quad Video Input Card for DM Switchers
1 DVI/RGB Input Card for DigitalMedia Switchers
Qty Model (Output Cards)
1 DMCO-1100 - Output Card for DM-MD16X16, provides 4 DM Fiber Outputs
Qty Model (Receivers)
4 DM-RMC-100-F - DigitalMedia Fiber Receiver & Room Controller
Qty Model (Cables, Repeaters, and Connectors)
8 CBL-HD-6 - Crestron® Certified HDMI Interface Cable, 6 ft
1 CRESFIBER-DUAL-SC-P-3 - CresFiber® Duplex Fiber Optic Cable Assembly, 50/125, SC,
Plenum, 3 ft
2 CRESFIBER-DUAL-SC-P-6 - CresFiber® Duplex Fiber Optic Cable Assembly, 50/125, SC,
Plenum, 6 ft
1 CRESFIBER-DUAL-SC-P-12 - CresFiber® Duplex Fiber Optic Cable Assembly, 50/125, SC,
Plenum, 12 ft
4 CBL-RCA-6 - Crestron® Certified RCA Composite Video and S/PDIF Audio Interface Cable, 6 ft

I guess we need a Pro2 with and an Ethernet card for interaction with the AMX.

If you could give me a ball park figure for this, don't spend too much time, I would appreciate it.
Not sure but maybe I should be requesting this via PM, but I am sure other people would be interested in outline pricing.
Thanks
Des
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post #68 of 95 Old 05-17-2010, 10:53 PM
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Looking quickly you appear to be at around $30k for the hardware you mention.
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post #69 of 95 Old 05-18-2010, 02:27 AM
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Thanks, that is about $10k more than I was hoping for.
How much does the Pro2 contribute to the price and what would be the difference in cost for an 8x8 chassis as opposed to a 16x16?
What are the expensive items?
Thanks for your help.
Des
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post #70 of 95 Old 05-18-2010, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multimedes View Post

Not sure but maybe I should be requesting this via PM, but I am sure other people would be interested in outline pricing.

I sent you a PM.
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post #71 of 95 Old 05-18-2010, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multimedes View Post

Thanks, that is about $10k more than I was hoping for.
How much does the Pro2 contribute to the price and what would be the difference in cost for an 8x8 chassis as opposed to a 16x16?
What are the expensive items?
Thanks for your help.
Des

32x32 = $17.2k
16x16 = $8.6k
8x8 = $4.3k

Pro2 = $3.6k
AV2 = $2.7k
CP2e = $1.8k

These are all list prices. Hope it helps.
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post #72 of 95 Old 05-19-2010, 06:53 PM
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Thanks, that does help but I do not see the point of just doubling the price for 32x32 over 16x16 and 16x16 over 8x8, does not give any one the incentive to invest in the larger box if you don't need it from day 1.
Most marketeer's would have encourage one to buy bigger box's to get you to buy more interface modules (with even higher margins) sooner rather than later.
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post #73 of 95 Old 05-19-2010, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multimedes View Post

Thanks, that does help but I do not see the point of just doubling the price for 32x32 over 16x16 and 16x16 over 8x8, does not give any one the incentive to invest in the larger box if you don't need it from day 1.
Most marketeer's would have encourage one to buy bigger box's to get you to buy more interface modules (with even higher margins) sooner rather than later.

Um, how do you expect to get 32 source inputs by stacking two 16x16 units? Or 16 inputs from two 8x8 chassis? The backplane bandwidth of the 32x32 DM switcher is twice that of stacked 16x16 chassis, so you're effectively getting double the capability for the same money. There's your incentive.
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post #74 of 95 Old 05-20-2010, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petemcn View Post

32x32 = $17.2k
16x16 = $8.6k
8x8 = $4.3k

Pro2 = $3.6k
AV2 = $2.7k
CP2e = $1.8k

These are all list prices. Hope it helps.

Why does he need any of those processors just to talk to the DM why not just a QM-RMC?

"I'm just a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it"
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post #75 of 95 Old 05-20-2010, 05:35 PM
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I wouldn't trust a QM-RMC for that duty. Just me. Plus, it doesn't have cresnet at all, only has 2 serial ports, one IR port, and 4 inputs.
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post #76 of 95 Old 05-23-2010, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetSpot View Post

Um, how do you expect to get 32 source inputs by stacking two 16x16 units? Or 16 inputs from two 8x8 chassis? The backplane bandwidth of the 32x32 DM switcher is twice that of stacked 16x16 chassis, so you're effectively getting double the capability for the same money. There's your incentive.

No you cant expand the inputs but if outputs are your limiting factor then it is OK.
Connection to a second switcher allows expanded distribution of the input sources connected to the primary switcher.
Connection to the second switcher consists of connecting the HDMI output of the input cards in the primary switcher to HDMI
input cards installed on the second switcher.
I agree if you have many simultaneous high bandwidth input requirements (1080p 60Hz with maybe deep color requirements) then it is not the way to go.
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post #77 of 95 Old 01-30-2011, 11:15 PM
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Hey James,

With Crestron coming out with the DM HD-BaseT video cat 5 video solution, is there any point in going with fiber anymore?

Thanks
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post #78 of 95 Old 01-31-2011, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pchannan View Post

Hey James,

With Crestron coming out with the DM HD-BaseT video cat 5 video solution, is there any point in going with fiber anymore?

Thanks

Below is just my opinion on how I see copper (Cat5/6) playing out in the future. As in the words of the GREAT Johnny (John) Lydon "I may be wrong, I maybe right".

Also, ignore spelling and grammer. I am in a rush and did not proof read it.

So now . . . .

Are you referring to the 8G (DM 8G STP) single CAT (DM-CBL-8G) cable distribution?

If so, it's not based on HD-BaseT, 8G is Crestron own proprietary development. At DM Engineering class we were told that Crestron is an "Adopter" member but does not have any plans in implementing the spec. in their DM system.

As stated by the HD-BaseT alliance at this years CES, HDBaseT hopes to see native adoption in consumer tech products within a year to 18 months. So it will be some time before we see it in the consumer channel.

Now, back to your original question " . . . is there any point in going with fiber anymore?" as opposed to the 8G single CAT solution? My answer is yes for a few of reasons.

1) The 8G (DM 8G STP) single CAT (DM-CBL-8G) cable solution is limited to 330ft.

2) The 8G (DM 8G STP) single CAT (DM-CBL-8G) cable solution does not allow the use of DM repeaters so you can not extend distance. Your max'd out at 330ft.

3) The current state of copper solutions such as Baluns, HDMI over IP, etc are just life support for a cable that was not designed to carry the requirements of HDMI spec. which is Uncompressed Video (1080P, 3D, Deep Color, etc), Uncompressed Audio (Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Res, DTS-HD Master Audio, 8ch PCM, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, DTS, DTS-ES, DTS 96/24, 2ch PCM), CEC, EDI, etc.

4) The other issue with copper is distance. Baluns can go what? about 150' maybe. With HDMI over IP distance varies with product used but you can get 300-400ft on a single cable.

5) Currently the highest resolution available is 1080p. But as we know 2k & 4k is coming and will be main stream as 1080p is today within 5 to 10 years. I hear a lot of people saying well there is no 2k/4k content so it wont happen anytime soon. But just like 1080p displays when they first came out people were saying "there is no 1080p content" the highest at the time was 720p or 1080i. Now you have Blu-Ray, VDU HDX, and Other HD Streaming sources. Broadcast TV may never hit 1080p, 2k or 4k but as internet data rates get faster in the future, 50Mbps, 100Mbps even up to 1Gbps, we will be able to access more and more 1080p and even 2k & 4k content.

This leads back to Copper, will copper handle 2k or 4k? At this point, when 4k is as popular as 1080p is today, High Speed Wireless, WiDi, etc will have evolved and have become readily available and thus, I believe, will be a substitute for copper.

I see copper (CAT5/6) being irrelevant, as an HD AV distribution conduit, in 5 to 10 years.

The fiber system I have in our home carries the following to each room, Great Room, Media Room, Den, Kitchen, Master Bed/Bath and Guest Bath.
1) Uncompressed HDMI 1.4 video with support for Deep Color & 3D
2) Uncompressed Multi-channel Audio (Dolby® TrueHD 7.1, Dolby Digital Plus 7.1, Dolby Digital AC3 5.1, Dolby Digital EX 5.1, DTS-HD Master Audio™ 7.1, DTS-HD High Res 7.1, DTS 5.1, DTS-ES Matrix 5.1, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, DTS 96/24 5.1, up to 8ch PCM)
3) Ethernet (10/100)
4) RS-232 (1 Port)
5) IR (2 Ports)
6) USB (1 Port)
7) Relay (2 Ports)
8) Digital/Contact
9) Ability to embed CEC commands directly within the HDMI Channel and send to any display
10) IP Phone System - Not only that I am able to run 1-9 above, but also our entire phone system over the same fiber cable that the DM system uses.

I understand why the AV industry, especially CI's, are trying to extend the use of CAT cabling but I feel the time has come to move to fiber. There are a few companies, besides Crestron, offering a fiber solution and in the years to come you will see more and more.

Again, as stated by the HD-BaseT alliance at this years CES, HDBaseT hopes to see native adoption in consumer tech products within a year to 18 months. So it will be some time before we see it in the consumer channel.

Remember this, Verizon has taken fiber directly to the home. Now it's only a matter of time before fiber is IN the home.

My 2 cents.
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post #79 of 95 Old 02-01-2011, 02:52 AM
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[quote=GoGo Delicious;19927319]/QUOTE]


hey buddy
sent you a PM last year never had a reply, guess you been too busy, just resent it now please check it out and let me know.. awaiting your wisdom !

Cheers
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post #80 of 95 Old 02-01-2011, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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hey buddy
sent you a PM last year never had a reply, guess you been too busy, just resent it now please check it out and let me know.. awaiting your wisdom !

Cheers

I apologize about that. I just set you a PM
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post #81 of 95 Old 02-06-2011, 09:18 AM
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Can you give more detaill how you pass your phone system through the fiber from the dm.
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post #82 of 95 Old 02-06-2011, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Can you give more detaill how you pass your phone system through the fiber from the dm.

It's not difficult to do, IF you have a good networking foundation.
With that said, I will not go into details on how I do it. Im a business and do not give away something that gives us a competitive advantage.
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post #83 of 95 Old 04-01-2011, 04:02 PM
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James,

The HDMI Specifications list all of the standard CEC codes. I keep hearing about proprietary implementations of CES by various manufacturers, but no specific data.

Is there any resource for how different manufacturers are currently implementing (or not implementing) the CEC code standards?

Thanks!

Orrin

Orrin Charm
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post #84 of 95 Old 04-08-2011, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orrinc View Post
The HDMI Specifications list all of the standard CEC codes. I keep hearing about proprietary implementations of CES by various manufacturers, but no specific data.

Is there any resource for how different manufacturers are currently implementing (or not implementing) the CEC code standards?
I do not know of any other source other than getting the proprietary CEC codes form directly from the manuf. and this is not as easy as it sounds. When you call a manuf. 99% of the time no one knows what you are asking for and you have to jump through hoops to find a person who knows what "CEC Codes" mean.

Even if you use the manuf. own terminology, for example Samsung calls HDMI CEC control "Anynet+", you have to ask Samsung for the "Anynet+" codes and even then they may not know what you are talking about.
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post #85 of 95 Old 04-17-2011, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGo Delicious View Post

As far as CEC goes, it does make programming a breeze. I do have to say this though. Without the DM system I would not be able to use CEC due to the fact that you have send the codes through HDMI. The coding is easy as it's just a serial join. But what the DM system does is it give you the HDMI input to send the Serial commands on and get them into the HDMI channel and at the same time sends the feedback back to a Serial output. Every DM input & output card and on the room controllers there is a HMDI serial input and output.

In order for CEC to take off there needs to be a way to allow the programmer to get the commands into the HDMI channel.

Hi James,

Following your CEC adventures with interest. Can you post a link to the document with the CEC codes for various devices, or give us the title so we can get it from HDMI, LLC.

Thanks....

Graeme
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post #86 of 95 Old 04-18-2011, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi James,
Following your CEC adventures with interest. Can you post a link to the document with the CEC codes for various devices, or give us the title so we can get it from HDMI, LLC.

Thanks....

Graeme

The title is as follows,
"High-Definition Multimedia Interface Specification Version X.X"

Where X.X is the HDMI version you are are requesting, for example 1.3a, 1.4, etc.

Note that the document above gives you the standard CEC codes.
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post #87 of 95 Old 04-21-2011, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGo Delicious View Post

The title is as follows,
"High-Definition Multimedia Interface Specification Version X.X"

Where X.X is the HDMI version you are are requesting, for example 1.3a, 1.4, etc.

Note that the document above gives you the standard CEC codes.

Got it, thanks....

Graeme
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post #88 of 95 Old 05-18-2011, 05:11 PM
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Hi

Going with 8x8 after seeing what has been achieved. One thing I was trying to work out was how the switcher handled these CEC codes where the output is straight hdmi I.e. No room controller. Can this be done?

The other question was around 2 pioneer items. In the uk the amp is the sc-lx83 and in the US I think it is the sc-37. The bluray player is bdp-lx91. The blu ray sends one hdmi to amp for audio and another to display for video. How would the switcher handle that?

I guess the CEC side would extend to the amp and blu ray too :-) would seem silly to integrate via rs232 for controlling these 2 items.
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post #89 of 95 Old 05-19-2011, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Harinder View Post
The other question was around 2 pioneer items. In the uk the amp is the sc-lx83 and in the US I think it is the sc-37. The bluray player is bdp-lx91. The blu ray sends one hdmi to amp for audio and another to display for video. How would the switcher handle that?
One way of doing it is to use one HDMI cable coming from the Blu-Ray player carrying both Audio & Video to the Dm 8x8. Depending on the type of DM cable you use, copper or fiber, you will install a DMCO card that has an output to DM-RMC and an HDMI output.

For example the DMCO-44 has 4 fiber outputs and an additional 2 HDMI outputs on output 1 & 2 along with the fiber outputs. So, on output 1 you would run the fiber output to the DM-RMC and the HDMI output to your receiver. In DM Tools, which is in ToolBox, You would setup the DM 8x8 so the HDMI output is sending audio only.

Another way of doing it is, you can also just send the video to the DM 8x8, via HDMI and the audio to your receiver via HDMI, as you are doing now. When you select "Watch Blu-Ray" the DM 8x8 will switch to the Blu-Ray player and the receiver will switch to the Input that you have assigned to the Blu-Ray audio.

There are many other ways of doing it. These are just 2 examples.

Hope that helps.
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post #90 of 95 Old 07-14-2011, 01:39 AM
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Hi All,

I found this thread looking for more info on the DM series products and learned alot from GoGo Delicious comments and replies to all the questions. I'm curious about anyone else experiences with DM switchers, room controllers, fiber or CAT based. Any horror stories?

Im located in Bangkok, Thailand and have a client that requires HD distribution from a centralized server(kaleidescape + shared iTunes library) to 44 points in a very large residential family compound. I have been doing research for a days now and still come back to the DM series. I have some colleagues in Australia who have offered that the DM will "just fall down", but I find that hard to believe, considering how many installs I have seen in Thailand using Crestron; hotels and boardrooms mainly. I know it is a vague question but just want to do my due diligence before I convince my client to invest in some serious gear.

Hope this thread isnt dead, but will post a new thread as well. Thanks!!
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