Would you be willing to upgrade security system if HA was a benefit? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 22 Old 06-15-2015, 12:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Would you be willing to upgrade security system if HA was a benefit?

Was having a conversation with someone, quick question: I realize with the advent of things like Hue, WeMo, etc, the bar is lower than ever before for "home automation".

That said, there's incremental cost plus a visual ugliness that most spouses wouldn't accept. If you could replace your current security panel with a security & automation one, keeping all current motion and door/window sensors, would you? What if it cost $500-$700? The other upside is that instead of paying ADT/etc $50/month, you could use someone like NextAlarm for $12/month.

Why? Then you could re-use the same motion sensors and door/window sensors you use for security for home automation. Stuff like:
1) no motion in a room for <x> minutes? Turn off all the lights/etc.
2) Window get opened in the same room as the thermostat? Turn off the HVAC.
3) Arm your security system in Away mode? Go turn off all the lights, stereo, TV, turn down HVAC, etc.

Again, i'm not trying to convince anyone here that HA is good, but it has been said that what I do is "the old way", nowadays people just want to plug in a few things and call it a day. I'm not denying that, but i'm wondering how many, if anyone, would be interested in taking that next step.

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post #2 of 22 Old 06-15-2015, 12:11 PM
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3) Arm your security system in Away mode? Go turn off all the lights, stereo, TV, turn down HVAC, etc.
I was having a conversation about this last week - the "Away" setting is, IMO, the most valuable piece of info to share among systems - even if that's the only thing that's shared. And I don't care which system 'owns' the setting, just that all of them get the same info. The security system is probably the best owner of this, since it's very explicitly set today.

Leveraging the motion sensors as occupancy sensors is a really good idea - I've been trying to use the auto-away setting on Nest thermostats, but I'm getting false positives because of the thermostat's location.

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post #3 of 22 Old 06-15-2015, 12:51 PM
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I would pay a nice junk of change for a HomeKit compatible security panel that uses traditional wired sensors.

I have a Honeywell Vista 20P and it is very reliable but it lacks what I think of as modern features (TCP/IP connectivity and mobile apps). And before someone suggest it, adding a Lynx Touch, Vista Automation Module or pro AV system to it are not appealing to me.

I had some high hopes for the Honeywell Lyric Security System that has been demoed but it looks to be a wireless only system (it's rumored to be HomeKit compatible but I doubt it). If I was Honeywell I would make a small homekit compatible hub that connects to their existing panels. With all the panels they have out there those things would be good moneymakers for security dealers.

Apple announced last week that they were expanding the HomeKit API to security systems. I would love for someone to make a traditional wired panel with TCP/IP connectivity and HomeKit support. First one that makes one will get my money.
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post #4 of 22 Old 06-15-2015, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jautor View Post
Leveraging the motion sensors as occupancy sensors is a really good idea - I've been trying to use the auto-away setting on Nest thermostats, but I'm getting false positives because of the thermostat's location.
Plus, I mounted motion sensors in *every* room as the nice looking wired ones are only $25, so your house is better protected than the 2 room 2 door stuff that ADT pitches.

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I would pay a nice junk of change for a HomeKit compatible security panel that uses traditional wired sensors.

I have a Honeywell Vista 20P and it is very reliable but it lacks what I think of as modern features (TCP/IP connectivity and mobile apps). And before someone suggest it, adding a Lynx Touch, Vista Automation Module or pro AV system to it are not appealing to me.

I had some high hopes for the Honeywell Lyric Security System that has been demoed but it looks to be a wireless only system (it's rumored to be HomeKit compatible but I doubt it). If I was Honeywell I would make a small homekit compatible hub that connects to their existing panels. With all the panels they have out there those things would be good moneymakers for security dealers.

Apple announced last week that they were expanding the HomeKit API to security systems. I would love for someone to make a traditional wired panel with TCP/IP connectivity and HomeKit support. First one that makes one will get my money.
If you're willing to yield on HomeKit, Elk has made panels forever that have TCP/IP connectivity. I finished my install in 2006, linked it to my home automation system which is accessible via either iOS, Android, laptops, etc. Heck, it could even be considered "long-in-the-tooth", its so mature. HAI makes panels too.

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post #5 of 22 Old 06-15-2015, 01:09 PM
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If you're willing to yield on HomeKit, Elk has made panels forever that have TCP/IP connectivity. I finished my install in 2006, linked it to my home automation system which is accessible via either iOS, Android, laptops, etc. Heck, it could even be considered "long-in-the-tooth", its so mature. HAI makes panels too.
Yeah I always think about switching to HAI or ELK for that connectivity but I haven't seen any native apps for those that would make it worth switching.

The good thing about somebody making a Homekit security panel would be not having to worry about what radios to embed (zwave, zigbee, etc.) to control other things like lights, shades, locks , etc. Homekit would take care of that.
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post #6 of 22 Old 06-15-2015, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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The good thing about somebody making a Homekit security panel would be not having to worry about what radios to embed (zwave, zigbee, etc.) to control other things like lights, shades, locks , etc. Homekit would take care of that.
Heads up, that's not necessary true. For example, and I'm about to do a podcast on this very topic given recent annoyances, I have zwave lights working just fine. I bought Hue (zigbee) 2 weeks ago as a fellow HA person has had great luck and the variable color lights are nice only to find epic unreliability.

We did a Google hangout last night, only thoughts we have is that I live in a 100 year old craftsman style house, he's in a 15 year old townhouse. ZWave operates at 900MHz, zigbee is higher. ZWave can reach further but slower than zigbee. But has other issues.

This will never be plug and play due to differences in home construction materials, size, layout. Plus the reason there's no decent off the shelf apps is that everyone has different security systems, receivers, televisions, sonodSvs other, os vs lights, hvac. Some have irrigation, cctv, etc.
I've been chasing Amy for 10 years, and the only thing I've realized is that if you want a truly integrated system either you have to create your own screens (seriously simple nowadays), or pay a huge amount for someone elseelOtherwise you'll be stuck with switching between apps and not being integrated and actually doing home automation. Homekit isinot a silver bullet that can make everyone's spouses agree to let us install identical systems.
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post #7 of 22 Old 06-15-2015, 02:23 PM
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Heads up, that's not necessary true. For example, and I'm about to do a podcast on this very topic given recent annoyances, I have zwave lights working just fine. I bought Hue (zigbee) 2 weeks ago as a fellow HA person has had great luck and the variable color lights are nice only to find epic unreliability.

We did a Google hangout last night, only thoughts we have is that I live in a 100 year old craftsman style house, he's in a 15 year old townhouse. ZWave operates at 900MHz, zigbee is higher. ZWave can reach further but slower than zigbee. But has other issues.

This will never be plug and play due to differences in home construction materials, size, layout. Plus the reason there's no decent off the shelf apps is that everyone has different security systems, receivers, televisions, sonodSvs other, os vs lights, hvac. Some have irrigation, cctv, etc.
I've been chasing Amy for 10 years, and the only thing I've realized is that if you want a truly integrated system either you have to create your own screens (seriously simple nowadays), or pay a huge amount for someone elseelOtherwise you'll be stuck with switching between apps and not being integrated and actually doing home automation. Homekit isinot a silver bullet that can make everyone's spouses agree to let us install identical systems.
There is not enough out there about Homekit to know what all it will do. It may only be a structure that iOS apps can use to give a user interface for other systems within their own app. I just know enough about it now to know I want it in the HA products I get.
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post #8 of 22 Old 06-15-2015, 05:58 PM
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Look at the target market. It's likely going to be pretty limited. If it's not, it probably won't appeal to the market they are targeting. Why wait for something that you have no idea is going to even survive or even be applicable, and something that you'll likely then just grow out of quickly and have to turn around and learn/pay for a more serious product? Why not reward a company that has been doing it for years or decades before it was 'cool' and who have worked out the issues now, instead of making Apple even richer while they figure it out on the fly?

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post #9 of 22 Old 06-16-2015, 12:03 AM
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Homekit isn't going to be a communication standard, like Z-Wave, Zigbee, Clear Connect, etc. It will help tie sub-systems together, but to think it will magically remove the frustration of disparate systems using varying communication standards may be a little optimistic.
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post #10 of 22 Old 06-16-2015, 05:15 AM
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Homekit isn't going to be a communication standard, like Z-Wave, Zigbee, Clear Connect, etc. It will help tie sub-systems together, but to think it will magically remove the frustration of disparate systems using varying communication standards may be a little optimistic.
No, but say for instance a company makes a Homekit compatible security panel. Now that the panel is Homekit compatible, any other iOS apps can control that panel within their own app. So for instance when you set the "away scene" from your Lutron app you can also set your security system to arm as well from the same app.
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post #11 of 22 Old 06-16-2015, 07:46 AM
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But that's trivial to accomplish with any automation system, and what are you giving up in order to have this trivial thing done for you. And what if you don't want that to happen, then you have to take action to prevent it. Many security systems support multiple home or away modes, so which one would you want to use, maybe you want to use different ones for different days of the week. Maybe you also need to do others things beside just match the security system arming mode, and maybe some of them need to be done before and some after the arming mode changes.

It's that kind of semantic logic that simple systems can never deal with, because it's impossible to know what the right answer is without asking the user what the semantics of a particular 'scene' or 'mode' means.

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post #12 of 22 Old 06-16-2015, 08:46 AM
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But that's trivial to accomplish with any automation system, and what are you giving up in order to have this trivial thing done for you. And what if you don't want that to happen, then you have to take action to prevent it. Many security systems support multiple home or away modes, so which one would you want to use, maybe you want to use different ones for different days of the week. Maybe you also need to do others things beside just match the security system arming mode, and maybe some of them need to be done before and some after the arming mode changes.

It's that kind of semantic logic that simple systems can never deal with, because it's impossible to know what the right answer is without asking the user what the semantics of a particular 'scene' or 'mode' means.
i'm sorry but you're not going to convince me that a lot of existing HA options out there for regular people are any good. I'm ready to see what the newcomers can do.

I don't need a lot of automation in my home, its just not big enough to warrant it (~3000 sq ft). I don't need to have the lights come on automatically when I enter the bathroom at night because sometimes my wife is asleep and I dont want to have the light come on and wake her. Although other times I will turn it on if she is not asleep. I would spend more time working around the automation than it actually being a benefit to me. I just want the ability to control my lights and have a few come on or off at certain times, set the thermostat up or down and trigger some "away", "welcome" and "good night" scenes. And I want to be able to do all this from my phone or ipad at home or somewhere else.

I did process automation for around 5 years. I learned pretty early on that just because it could be automated doesnt mean it needs to be. If someone has to work around the automation half the time, it is not worth. A good example of the best automation that we already have is our water heaters. Could you imagine if we had to constantly check a reading to turn the water heater off or on? That automation works great because it is always needed. We just don't have that type of automation throughout the rest of our house. If I had a 10,000 sq ft house that had rooms and levels that I didnt go into weeks at a time then I would probably think about having some more automation because it would be hard to keep up with all of it.

So while it may be great that there are existing security panels out there that can talk to pro AV systems, have great API's and can do lots of automation it doesn't help me. I just want a panel that has a great looking app for my phone and tablet and can also control a few other HA products from within that same app. From what I have seen Homekit should be able to do this.
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post #13 of 22 Old 06-16-2015, 10:33 AM
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There is not enough out there about Homekit to know what all it will do. It may only be a structure that iOS apps can use to give a user interface for other systems within their own app. I just know enough about it now to know I want it in the HA products I get.
At Apple's WWDC, there was a "Homekit Update" session for developers that provided quite a bit more information. Homekit in iOS 9 will gain a number of capabilities, the most important of which is events triggering actions or scenes*. The example they used was a person coming home from work. When the front door is unlocked AND the front motion detector sees motion AND it is after 5:00 pm THEN Homekit executes the 'Hi, house' scene to turn on lights and so forth. The Homekit software framework provides all the support monitoring the events and triggering the actions. Any app developer can include an interface to create/modify such rules. I think a lot of us still expect Apple to provide a "Home" app that does such.

There was a brief mention that Homekit in iOS 9 will support security systems (plural) but that it would support common-denominator features. Nothing was demonstrated. I suspect Apple is working with a coupe of companies in this space. No one will be allowed to announce any details until the devices have passed Apple's certification testing. I'd like to know more--I'd really like to replace my old DSC system.

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*iOS 8 already has timer triggers for triggering actions at a specific time (eg exterior lights on a sunset and off at 23:15).
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post #14 of 22 Old 06-16-2015, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
But that's trivial to accomplish with any automation system, and what are you giving up in order to have this trivial thing done for you. And what if you don't want that to happen, then you have to take action to prevent it. Many security systems support multiple home or away modes, so which one would you want to use, maybe you want to use different ones for different days of the week. Maybe you also need to do others things beside just match the security system arming mode, and maybe some of them need to be done before and some after the arming mode changes.

It's that kind of semantic logic that simple systems can never deal with, because it's impossible to know what the right answer is without asking the user what the semantics of a particular 'scene' or 'mode' means.
i'm sorry but you're not going to convince me that a lot of existing HA options out there for regular people are any good. I'm ready to see what the newcomers can do.

I don't need a lot of automation in my home, its just not big enough to warrant it (~3000 sq ft). I don't need to have the lights come on automatically when I enter the bathroom at night because sometimes my wife is asleep and I dont want to have the light come on and wake her. Although other times I will turn it on if she is not asleep. I would spend more time working around the automation than it actually being a benefit to me. I just want the ability to control my lights and have a few come on or off at certain times, set the thermostat up or down and trigger some "away", "welcome" and "good night" scenes. And I want to be able to do all this from my phone or ipad at home or somewhere else.

I did process automation for around 5 years. I learned pretty early on that just because it could be automated doesnt mean it needs to be. If someone has to work around the automation half the time, it is not worth. A good example of the best automation that we already have is our water heaters. Could you imagine if we had to constantly check a reading to turn the water heater off or on? That automation works great because it is always needed. We just don't have that type of automation throughout the rest of our house. If I had a 10,000 sq ft house that had rooms and levels that I didnt go into weeks at a time then I would probably think about having some more automation because it would be hard to keep up with all of it.

So while it may be great that there are existing security panels out there that can talk to pro AV systems, have great API's and can do lots of automation it doesn't help me. I just want a panel that has a great looking app for my phone and tablet and can also control a few other HA products from within that same app. From what I have seen Homekit should be able to do this.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like what you want isn't really automation, it's home alternative manual control using a phone. Which is totally fine. I have a 1700sq ft house and we have several must have automation. Mainly as we have kids, not just adults, and we live in NorCal where electricity is expensive.

IE, when I leave, the ha system detects the panel went into armed away and turns off lights, TV, stereo, turns down hvac. Similar for entry.

I live in a semi urban location, so multiple motion sensors and door / window are needed. The wife will absolutely not allow multiple motion sensors per room, but with a real HA system I can reuse the security system sensors as presence detection and turn off lights / stereo / etc. It can be a different timeout per room.

When the wife or I pull in the driveway we can say "OK Google open house" and it'll disarm security. I have zwave locks so hopefully soon I figure out how to unlock. (security safeguards I won't post for obvious reasons).

I could go on but your point about automation not needed is because you haven't seen what automation can do for you. Once you see, I suspect you'll be hooked. Because seriously, who would have thought the ability to turn lights off via a phone would be anything other than stupid 15 years ago. YoudYohave heard u'd "Get your butt up and turn them off fatty! "
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post #15 of 22 Old 06-17-2015, 05:53 AM
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Please don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like what you want isn't really automation, it's home alternative manual control using a phone. Which is totally fine. I have a 1700sq ft house and we have several must have automation. Mainly as we have kids, not just adults, and we live in NorCal where electricity is expensive.

IE, when I leave, the ha system detects the panel went into armed away and turns off lights, TV, stereo, turns down hvac. Similar for entry.

I live in a semi urban location, so multiple motion sensors and door / window are needed. The wife will absolutely not allow multiple motion sensors per room, but with a real HA system I can reuse the security system sensors as presence detection and turn off lights / stereo / etc. It can be a different timeout per room.

When the wife or I pull in the driveway we can say "OK Google open house" and it'll disarm security. I have zwave locks so hopefully soon I figure out how to unlock. (security safeguards I won't post for obvious reasons).

I could go on but your point about automation not needed is because you haven't seen what automation can do for you. Once you see, I suspect you'll be hooked. Because seriously, who would have thought the ability to turn lights off via a phone would be anything other than stupid 15 years ago. YoudYohave heard u'd "Get your butt up and turn them off fatty! "
No offense taken, and you are pretty much right. I'm not so much looking for automation as I am looking to have all my devices "online". I'm sure once all my devices got online then I would find ways to have them interact.

Some of the things I would like to see get "online" would be:

- Wash and Dryer (be able to see how much time is left in the cycle. detect if a leak has occurred in the washer or the dryer is overheating)
- Dish Washer (be able to see how much time is left in the cycle. detect if a leak has occurred)
- Oven (be able to get an alert when it has preheated. set alerts to notify when timer has went off or oven has been left on. be able to turn off if needed)
- Stove (be able to get an alert if left on too long or if a fire has been detected. be able to turn off eyes if needed)

Back to your original question of the thread: yes, I would be willing to upgrade my security system if HA was a benefit. I feel like the security system is a good place to be the owner of the "program" that controls the house. Whether the security system talks to the devices directly or talks to them via another subsystem, it makes sense for it to be the brains.
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post #16 of 22 Old 06-17-2015, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
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the one thing i'll warn you is that getting them online is a slippery slope. I didn't think I wanted any automation. But, the only way my wife would let me buy a plasma TV (in 2004) was if I wallmounted it, also wallmounted speakers, and moved all electronics to the closet. I couldn't predictably control my Denon receiver, half the time the volume wouldn't work, and i'd have to get up, go to the closet, and see what wasn't set correctly.

I created a screen for my laptop where I pressed a button and it set all the inputs to everything. Within 30 seconds of me showing the wife she said "oh thank god i hate going to that closet".

Well, that set into motion a whole host of things. The TV room was in the back of the house, and with a young child and TV on, you couldn't hear the doorbell. So then I bought an Elk, and if someone pressed the doorbell I would kill the volume. But the TV would still play and the wife would miss stuff, so then I had it determine what was playing (DVD, SageTV, CD), and send the pause command to the right device.

Over the next 2-3 years, I swapped everything non-monitorable (in todays terminology, online) for things that were online/monitorable.

But then I realized, if its online, the next step is trivial, which is to perform automation (like the above).

Now when the automation is broken, the wife is upset. Turn off lights, HVAC, stereos, etc, by hand? Thats a waste, esp if you're running out of the house.

so net net: Careful, grasshopper. You might find yourself looking for something to control Homekit soon enough, since you/your wife may want to buy something that is IP-controllable just not via HomeKit. And you'll need something to control the controller :-)

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post #17 of 22 Old 06-18-2015, 05:43 AM
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the one thing i'll warn you is that getting them online is a slippery slope. I didn't think I wanted any automation. But, the only way my wife would let me buy a plasma TV (in 2004) was if I wallmounted it, also wallmounted speakers, and moved all electronics to the closet. I couldn't predictably control my Denon receiver, half the time the volume wouldn't work, and i'd have to get up, go to the closet, and see what wasn't set correctly.

I created a screen for my laptop where I pressed a button and it set all the inputs to everything. Within 30 seconds of me showing the wife she said "oh thank god i hate going to that closet".

Well, that set into motion a whole host of things. The TV room was in the back of the house, and with a young child and TV on, you couldn't hear the doorbell. So then I bought an Elk, and if someone pressed the doorbell I would kill the volume. But the TV would still play and the wife would miss stuff, so then I had it determine what was playing (DVD, SageTV, CD), and send the pause command to the right device.

Over the next 2-3 years, I swapped everything non-monitorable (in todays terminology, online) for things that were online/monitorable.

But then I realized, if its online, the next step is trivial, which is to perform automation (like the above).

Now when the automation is broken, the wife is upset. Turn off lights, HVAC, stereos, etc, by hand? Thats a waste, esp if you're running out of the house.

so net net: Careful, grasshopper. You might find yourself looking for something to control Homekit soon enough, since you/your wife may want to buy something that is IP-controllable just not via HomeKit. And you'll need something to control the controller :-)
When it comes to AV you definitely need some kind of app or control system to tie them all together. I use Roomie Remote and it has been great for my wife and I. She used to hate trying to use the Apple TV or play music from Sonos before but its really easy now. She and I both would still like to have a hard remote for TV viewing but so far its not been too big a deal. I have Roomie controlling Denon receivers, Samsung TV's, Russound multi room audio, Sonos for streaming music, Dish network receivers and Apple TV. I have attached screenshots of Roomie and a layout of my setup.
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post #18 of 22 Old 06-18-2015, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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fyi what i did was to use an IR receiver thats monitorable & controllable via my HA controller (in my case IRMan or USB-UIRT), so I could still use a hardbutton remote in the h/t. Like you, I also refuse to use a touchscreen in the home theater, I need a tactile response. But since the HA system can both detect what specific device is being used and then send it a command based on hitting play/pause/etc.

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post #19 of 22 Old 06-23-2015, 08:09 AM
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I would pay a nice junk of change for a HomeKit compatible security panel that uses traditional wired sensors.

I have a Honeywell Vista 20P and it is very reliable but it lacks what I think of as modern features (TCP/IP connectivity and mobile apps). And before someone suggest it, adding a Lynx Touch, Vista Automation Module or pro AV system to it are not appealing to me.

I had some high hopes for the Honeywell Lyric Security System that has been demoed but it looks to be a wireless only system (it's rumored to be HomeKit compatible but I doubt it). If I was Honeywell I would make a small homekit compatible hub that connects to their existing panels. With all the panels they have out there those things would be good moneymakers for security dealers.

Apple announced last week that they were expanding the HomeKit API to security systems. I would love for someone to make a traditional wired panel with TCP/IP connectivity and HomeKit support. First one that makes one will get my money.
I have a Vista panel (21-IP) - pretty much identical to yours.

I have home automation, scenes triggered by doors or locks, 30 light switches, door locks, thermostats, etc. All controlled with the great TotalConnect APP. It's awesome!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #20 of 22 Old 06-29-2015, 06:49 AM
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I have a Vista panel (21-IP) - pretty much identical to yours.

I have home automation, scenes triggered by doors or locks, 30 light switches, door locks, thermostats, etc. All controlled with the great TotalConnect APP. It's awesome!
The problem is that you have to pay a monthly fee to use the TotalConnect app. If you don't pay the fee then you have to use their web based viewer. Plus I am not that thrilled with the look of the TotalConnect app anyway. I really like the look of their new Lyric security system (shown below). I wish they would make some kind of bridge for traditional hardwired sensors. It would also be nice if Honeywell would add a Clear Connect radio from Lutron so that the Caseta dimmers would work as well. Lutron and Honeywell have a good relationship so it wouldnt be totally un heard of.



http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/06/h...curity-system/
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post #21 of 22 Old 06-29-2015, 01:38 PM
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The problem is that you have to pay a monthly fee to use the TotalConnect app. If you don't pay the fee then you have to use their web based viewer. Plus I am not that thrilled with the look of the TotalConnect app anyway. I really like the look of their new Lyric security system (shown below). I wish they would make some kind of bridge for traditional hardwired sensors. It would also be nice if Honeywell would add a Clear Connect radio from Lutron so that the Caseta dimmers would work as well. Lutron and Honeywell have a good relationship so it wouldnt be totally un heard of.



http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/06/h...curity-system/
A fee is part of the game. It's easy to use, powerful, reliable and the fee is pretty reasonable ($10). You are 'wishing' for a system that is free and ideal.l - but none exists. It does everything I need and more. Totally happy! Never really considered the fee as a negative. The systems works great and I don't have to think about it. Peace of mind is worth the $10.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #22 of 22 Old 06-29-2015, 04:33 PM
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Some of the things I would like to see get "online" would be:

- Wash and Dryer (be able to see how much time is left in the cycle. detect if a leak has occurred in the washer or the dryer is overheating)
- Dish Washer (be able to see how much time is left in the cycle. detect if a leak has occurred)
- Oven (be able to get an alert when it has preheated. set alerts to notify when timer has went off or oven has been left on. be able to turn off if needed)
- Stove (be able to get an alert if left on too long or if a fire has been detected. be able to turn off eyes if needed)

.
You must be single. My wife has the above 'built in' like many of her sex - so I already have those features with needing to program.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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