Apple HomeKit + Lighting Automation - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 4Likes
  • 1 Post By Pvr4Craig
  • 1 Post By jbanker
  • 1 Post By ahard
  • 1 Post By jbanker
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 28 Old 09-04-2016, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Apple HomeKit + Lighting Automation

So I just finished putting together our new Ikea Besta media center. And I am looking to do some custom lighting.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3545.jpg
Views:	432
Size:	128.4 KB
ID:	1642017

I want to put LED light strip behind the TV as well as along the top cabinet to throw light on the ceiling. Originally I was just going to get the cheap light strips for $20ish a piece on amazon. But being the the junkie I am (and my distain for the idea of having another remote just to deal with those lights), I decided to look at options available for Apple HomeKit.

From what I can tell Phillips Hue, Lutron and Insteon are my only 3 current options. I think Ive spent around 3-4 hours looking at reviews in information online. But everything I am finding is more general information. I do like the Hue system, but that system is out if I can't use 3rd party LED strips. I'm not paying $80 for a 3M long LED strip.

I do like that the lutron and insteon products have the ability to control outlets, which I definitely have some use for. I just haven't managed to distill the information down enough to determine which system is the better option for controlling color changing led strip.

Thanks for any advice.

Justin
Justin Rasmussen is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 28 Old 09-04-2016, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
I suppose it is worth pointing out. I work in IT, so if the best answer turns out to be a bit complicated or custom, like running a raspberry pie, or arduino I can work with that. I'm just having a hard time figuring out which hub would be my best starting point.
Justin Rasmussen is offline  
post #3 of 28 Old 09-05-2016, 06:51 AM
Senior Member
 
e268's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Rasmussen View Post
I suppose it is worth pointing out. I work in IT, so if the best answer turns out to be a bit complicated or custom, like running a raspberry pie, or arduino I can work with that. I'm just having a hard time figuring out which hub would be my best starting point.
I use Insteon for my lighting. It comes with a Hub that one can use smart phones to control the lights, create scenes, schedules, etc. I also use Harmony Hub for my A/V equipment (can control up to 8 devices). The Harmony hub integrates with Insteon on the activities, e.g, when I turn on watch tv or video, harmony turns on the tv, the cable box, the a/v receiver, and dims the lights (at a pre-set level when the activity is set up). I use an old ipad to control harmony hub. When I watch video on my pc, I can use the built in mouse pointer (gesture like in apple), and there is also a keyboard, so it is very convenient. From time to time, there is a bit of trouble that Harmony is not responsive, so I have to turn off the harmony app and reconnect (automatically once it is set up). Then occasionally, I have to re-download the harmon app onto the ipad to make it responsive. Other than these occasional troubles, I am very happy with this set up. It is inexpensive and easy to set up. I do not know about how to use insteon to control changing color lighting, since I do not have it. Also, the insteon hub or harmony hub is not apple homekit compatible. Harmony support said it is in their future upgrade, but no date or promises. So, at the moment, I cannot use voice control.
e268 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 28 Old 09-05-2016, 01:55 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 26
There is now a Homekit-compatible Insteon hub.
freeoscar is offline  
post #5 of 28 Old 09-06-2016, 07:09 AM
Senior Member
 
e268's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Yes, but this homekit insteon hub is not compatible with Harmony Hub at the moment.
e268 is offline  
post #6 of 28 Old 09-06-2016, 07:13 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 214
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 45
I use the Lutron Caseta products and so far they've worked pretty well with HomeKit. Zero issues so far and very responsive. I don't know how the LED strip lights would work with the Caseta products though because as far as I know you'd still need to change the colors and set the fade or flash patterns if you wanted to use them with the remote for the strip lights.

AVR - Yamaha RX-V679 || Fronts - Bowers & Wilkins 684 S2 || Center - Bowers & Wilkins HTM62 S2 || Surrounds - Bowers & Wilkins 686 S2 || Subwoofer - SVS SB-2000 || TV - Vizio M50-C1
dbalkaran is offline  
post #7 of 28 Old 09-16-2016, 06:48 AM
Member
 
mod220's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 11
anyone know how Apple Home will incorporate w/ AV? I'm fully wired and about to install Control4, but worry that Apple is going to decimate all these companies, and I'm better off just going 100% apple system. I know they handle locks/lights/alarms/thermo, but haven't seen how it would tie into A/V system yet?
mod220 is offline  
post #8 of 28 Old 09-16-2016, 08:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
hatlesschimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,293
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 506 Post(s)
Liked: 541
Im pretty sure apple aint decimating anyone. And even if it is awesome it will be gimped in someway and you will be forced to pay an ongoing fee.

Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk
hatlesschimp is offline  
post #9 of 28 Old 09-16-2016, 08:48 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 965
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 635 Post(s)
Liked: 272
I am almost a decade long time Lutron customer and currently using a combination Lutron Caseta and old fashioned Leviton manual dimmers for my basement, including my HT. As cool as Lutron caseta is, their electronic dimmers do not always play nice with LED, irrespective of how much the LED manufacturers claim. Lutron's amazing, no doubt, but it is flawless with traditional incandescent and halogen bulbs. So when you get Lutron Caseta for your LED fixtures, make sure you play with it first, and also make sure the seller has a good no hassle return policy (like Home Depot, Lowes).

Plus, my gripe with Lutron's current Caseta dimmers are that their main dimmers don't retain the last dimmer settings and neither have a favorite settings on their own, unless you use their Pico remote. I am told the upcoming Caseta dimmers will take care of this, so I will wait and see. A major plus with Lutron again is the versatility of their Pico remote. The fact that you can use the Pico as a two way switch even without any wiring is marvelous. Ask any guy, who has gone through a smack in the head after forgetting to put a two way switch wiring across a hallway or stairway or a large room.

The Lutron android app works flawless.
Hellohowareyou is offline  
post #10 of 28 Old 09-16-2016, 08:58 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 214
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellohowareyou View Post
I am almost a decade long time Lutron customer and currently using a combination Lutron Caseta and old fashioned Leviton manual dimmers for my basement, including my HT. As cool as Lutron caseta is, their electronic dimmers do not always play nice with LED, irrespective of how much the LED manufacturers claim. Lutron's amazing, no doubt, but it is flawless with traditional incandescent and halogen bulbs. So when you get Lutron Caseta for your LED fixtures, make sure you play with it first, and also make sure the seller has a good no hassle return policy (like Home Depot, Lowes).

Plus, my gripe with Lutron's current Caseta dimmers are that their main dimmers don't retain the last dimmer settings and neither have a favorite settings on their own, unless you use their Pico remote. I am told the upcoming Caseta dimmers will take care of this, so I will wait and see. A major plus with Lutron again is the versatility of their Pico remote. The fact that you can use the Pico as a two way switch even without any wiring is marvelous. Ask any guy, who has gone through a smack in the head after forgetting to put a two way switch wiring across a hallway or stairway or a large room.

The Lutron android app works flawless.
Which LED bulbs are you using? I have CREE bulbs and haven't had any issues with them. I'm also using a Caseta switch to control some outdoor floods from Home Depot and haven't had any issues with those LEDs either? I did experience issues with the GE LED sticks, but everything else I've tried has worked well.

AVR - Yamaha RX-V679 || Fronts - Bowers & Wilkins 684 S2 || Center - Bowers & Wilkins HTM62 S2 || Surrounds - Bowers & Wilkins 686 S2 || Subwoofer - SVS SB-2000 || TV - Vizio M50-C1
dbalkaran is offline  
post #11 of 28 Old 09-16-2016, 11:16 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 357
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Is lutron compatible with apple home kit? I see only very lousy accessories for apple kit 4 the time being. I am trying to stay away from control 4, that also needs $99/year and was wondering if there is a fee for lutron too?
Ziba Ji is offline  
post #12 of 28 Old 09-17-2016, 03:17 PM
Member
 
blkicevic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Biloxi Ms
Posts: 155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziba Ji View Post
Is lutron compatible with apple home kit? I see only very lousy accessories for apple kit 4 the time being. I am trying to stay away from control 4, that also needs $99/year and was wondering if there is a fee for lutron too?
Yes, I am running the Caseta shades and three switches along with the phillips hue, ecobee3, and schlage locks with an Apple TV 4th gen. all play well together and run seamless on on homekit and the home app.
Bonus: Everything mixes well also if your using Amazon Alexa! I use a
Alexa for in home VC and Homekit for External network connectivity.

I do not condone what i do, but i will not deny myself the pleasure!
blkicevic is offline  
post #13 of 28 Old 09-21-2016, 09:13 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Dean Roddey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 19,553
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 584 Post(s)
Liked: 619
Quote:
Originally Posted by mod220 View Post
anyone know how Apple Home will incorporate w/ AV? I'm fully wired and about to install Control4, but worry that Apple is going to decimate all these companies, and I'm better off just going 100% apple system. I know they handle locks/lights/alarms/thermo, but haven't seen how it would tie into A/V system yet?
Apple isn't going to decimate anyone in the HA world really. They will just be another player that supports some stuff, and doesn't support most stuff, because the only way to support lots and lots of stuff is to have the companies that make the products provide that support. That's just not going to happen on a wide enough scale to put them into a position where you can just buy the gear you want and know that Homekit is going to support it. With basically all automation systems, you pretty much have to pick the automation system, and then choose the gear that works best with it, or be prepared to toss some or a lot of your existing gear and replace it with stuff that is supported.

Also, keep in mind that Homekit isn't really even an automation system, it's just an integration protocol standard, with some basic apps available for it. That's a lot different from a full fledged automation system, and I guess it just proves the power of marketing that anyone would think that Apple is going to somehow take over the HA world with that. They will likely get a share of folks who are willing to spend a couple hundred bucks for a really basic setup, but that's got nothing to do with the market Control4 or Crestron (or we) are in.

Dean Roddey
Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems, Ltd

www.charmedquark.com

 

Dean Roddey is offline  
post #14 of 28 Old 09-25-2016, 06:15 AM
Senior Member
 
Pvr4Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Near Toronto, Canada
Posts: 462
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
Apple isn't going to decimate anyone in the HA world really. ...

Also, keep in mind that Homekit isn't really even an automation system, it's just an integration protocol standard, with some basic apps available for it. ...
Dean, every time you say stuff like this, I think of remarks by Ed Colligan, Palm Inc CEO, dismissing the iPhone (Nov 2006):

Quote:
We've learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone. PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in.
Didn't work out so well for Palm did it? Earlier, the iPod was written off as "lame".

What you call automation, the mass market would refer to as mind-bendingly complex or expensive beyond belief. Although most of them have no idea your company, Control4 or Crestron even exist. That niche, for ultra integrated or ultra customized, may still exist in a few years but will be dwarfed by good-enough solutions used by 10's or 100's of millions of people.

Craig
egrego likes this.
Pvr4Craig is offline  
post #15 of 28 Old 09-25-2016, 10:19 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Dean Roddey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 19,553
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 584 Post(s)
Liked: 619
How many years ago now were you and others saying that their huge customer base was going to allow them to basically take over the automation industry? And how far down that path have they gone so far? It's still extremely limited in hardware support and applications. And there are many other inexpensive (or free) options at that level that they have to compete against. And Amazon and Google are both banging hard on that same space as well. The Echo has been vastly more successful, despite being basically just a voice based remote control, than Homekit has.

They will do OK, but 'decimate' the competition, or match the enormous hype that some many Apple fans have been putting out there for a long time now? That's really just wishful thinking.

Dean Roddey
Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems, Ltd

www.charmedquark.com

 

Dean Roddey is offline  
post #16 of 28 Old 12-27-2016, 12:51 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Apple HomeKit: Your Complete Guide to a Smart Home

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Rasmussen View Post
So I just finished putting together our new Ikea Besta media center. And I am looking to do some custom lighting.

Attachment 1642017

I want to put LED light strip behind the TV as well as along the top cabinet to throw light on the ceiling. Originally I was just going to get the cheap light strips for $20ish a piece on amazon. But being the the junkie I am (and my distain for the idea of having another remote just to deal with those lights), I decided to look at options available for Apple HomeKit.

From what I can tell Phillips Hue, Lutron and Insteon are my only 3 current options. I think Ive spent around 3-4 hours looking at reviews in information online. But everything I am finding is more general information. I do like the Hue system, but that system is out if I can't use 3rd party LED strips. I'm not paying $80 for a 3M long LED strip.

I do like that the lutron and insteon products have the ability to control outlets, which I definitely have some use for. I just haven't managed to distill the information down enough to determine which system is the better option for controlling color changing led strip.

Thanks for any advice.

Justin
Choosing a smart homeKit for your home is very complicated and

difficult. There are many safety factors that you need to consider

before you should set out to buying one. We are going to help you

through the selection process. Here it is the Best Apple HomeKit Enabled Accessories: Your Complete Guide to a Smart Home that are available in the market.

mobilesiri.com/apple-homekit-smart-home
Wasay Khan is offline  
post #17 of 28 Old 12-30-2016, 06:43 AM
Member
 
jbanker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I have been experimenting with HomeKit for a few months and ended up setting up Homebridge, which is a lightweight NodeJS server I am running on an old Mac mini server I have. It was supper easy to setup and there are numerous plugins that will allow many non-HomeKit compatible devices to be used. As far as HomeKit devices, I have several Hue lights, an Ecobee smart thermostat, Kwikset deadbolt and for non-Homekit devices I setup control for my Denon AVR, and Harmony Hubs, and I am currently working on setting up a garage door opener all using the Homebridge server. A friend of mine uses echo for his experimenting with automation so we have been sharing feedback with each other. Security is a huge concern for both of us and neither solution has proven fool proof yet. As far as in-house function, I find echo was able to receive and respond to verbal commands from various people better than Siri and at present time there are a lot more products that work with echo, but with the Homebridge server I have access to just as many accessories as he does with echo. However, I have great success with it because I have gotten used to the way Siri wants to receive verbal commands and I can have her control my accessories at will both at home and away. Setup was a pain, because I had to sign in and out of iCloud several times on my AppleTv to get things working smoothly. I can also use the AppleTv remote to control my homekit accessories from the couch, but my phone tends to be within verbal command distance most of the time.

Cool factor aside, the biggest downside to both is definitely security. I was able to call his house phone and when his voicemail picked up I asked Alexa to unlock the front door and viola the door was unlocked. We were also able to speak very loudly from outside the window of his living room and Alexa again unlocked the front door. This can be solved by moving the echo around out of audible range of doors and windows and his voicemail, since he still wants to hear who is leaving voicemail while the caller is still on the line, but this may not be very obvious to people thats its that easy to fool. This could also be improved by doing some voice training with Alexa, but still a basic security hole with voice activation.

We tried to duplicate this with Siri and for starters we had to leave my phone inside my home because it is the only voice control I have, that response to a verbal command without pressing a button. Occasionally I could get Siri to respond to a "Hey Siri" request to unlock the front door through the window, but his voice was not recognized as easily as my voice was with Alexa. I suspect because Siri was trained to respond to my Hey Siri voice pattern and not his, but we did get his voice command to work a few times. I don't have a voicemail system so we could not compare if Siri responds to voice command over an answering machine. Again I would have to leave my phone in the house for this to work, as with Alexa, she is always in the house, waiting to respond to your command.

The other problem is iOS 10 gives you quick access to your favorite Homekit accessories and scenes with just a swipe up by default from the lock screen. So if you loose your phone or someone steals it, someone could simply swipe up at the lock screen without entering your passcode and access your HomeKit. This can be done while your away from home or just outside the front door. This can be disabled, but it is worth noting that it is enabled by default in iOS 10. The other challenge with HomeKit, is that if I loose my phone I have to get on a computer and get to my iCloud account to put my phone in lost mode to disable HomeKit on that phone so someone doesn't not gain access to my home.

These are just a few early observations after tinkering for a few months, but security is going to be a big concern for me as it will for most people who have a brain and are not just sheep being led around. The few basic security concerns I noted above are just the tip of the iceberg, because with the internet of things and the connectivity of all of our devices, thieves are going to work hard to exploit these connected devices to gain control of our lives. That alone I think will be reason enough to keep the average non tech savvy users away or at least keep vendors/providers of complete home automation solutions in business for quite some time.

As far as the OP regarding lighting. I personally like the Philips Hue it works very well with or without HomeKit. I have several of them and the even work with the Harmony Hub and Extender so you can automate them with your remote and do not need HomeKit for those simple automations.
IronWaffle likes this.
jbanker is offline  
post #18 of 28 Old 12-30-2016, 08:16 AM
Advanced Member
 
ahard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: I'm in Florida
Posts: 708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Wow. Each vendor and hub manufacturer is responsible for ensuring secure control of devices. It sounds as though the company that manufactured the lock that your friend has connected to his Echo basically gave a middle finger to security. There’s no way that I would use that lock. I have a non-Homekit home control system with multiple Echos and I can tell you that the company that built and manages my control hub doesn’t allow Echo to to unlock or open security devices including door locks and garage door controls. That’s a security no-no. Apple also shouldn’t allow Siri to open/unlock security devices. That’s just crazy.

XBL: Stunt1on1
ahard is offline  
post #19 of 28 Old 01-01-2017, 07:49 AM
Senior Member
 
Pvr4Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Near Toronto, Canada
Posts: 462
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahard View Post
...Apple also shouldn’t allow Siri to open/unlock security devices. That’s just crazy.
I don't have a Homekit-controlled lock, but I was under the impression that the user had to use TouchID or a passcode after asking Siri to unlock such a device. Is that not right?

What the previous poster was referring to was accessing Control Centre on an iOS device. There is a security setting that determines if Control Centre is accessible on a locked device or if TouchID/passcode must be first used to unlock the device. As he noted, the default is currently that anyone can get into Control Centre without having to authenticate first. If you have anything non-trivial in Homekit, I'd recommend changing that setting.

TouchID works so quickly that enabling this level of security is a no-brainer.

Craig
Pvr4Craig is offline  
post #20 of 28 Old 01-02-2017, 12:27 PM
Advanced Member
 
ahard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: I'm in Florida
Posts: 708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvr4Craig View Post
I don't have a Homekit-controlled lock, but I was under the impression that the user had to use TouchID or a passcode after asking Siri to unlock such a device. Is that not right?
Apple leaves it up to the user as to whether he/she wants to require a pin code or TouchID after a voice command is issued. But then that kind of defeats the purpose of a hands-free interface, which is what Siri, Google Home and Amazon Alexa are supposed to be. It's on Apple to implement fine grain control of how security devices interact with Siri. Amazon has built the permission structure for Echo such that you can't unlock a door lock or open a garage door control.

Here is a good article on this topic: http://www.forbes.com/sites/aarontil.../#55e5d8e16e8a

XBL: Stunt1on1
ahard is offline  
post #21 of 28 Old 01-02-2017, 06:38 PM
Senior Member
 
Pvr4Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Near Toronto, Canada
Posts: 462
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahard View Post
Apple leaves it up to the user as to whether he/she wants to require a pin code or TouchID after a voice command is issued. But then that kind of defeats the purpose of a hands-free interface, which is what Siri, Google Home and Amazon Alexa are supposed to be. It's on Apple to implement fine grain control of how security devices interact with Siri. Amazon has built the permission structure for Echo such that you can't unlock a door lock or open a garage door control.

Here is a good article on this topic: http://www.forbes.com/sites/aarontil.../#55e5d8e16e8a
Re Alexa, do you have a reference on that? Because that's exactly the opposite of what I read just recently. Here is a similar link:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/amazo...ho-wayne-bevan

The author notes that Alexa will happily unlock the door for anyone. Even when their voice is being relayed by the home answering machine so no need to stand outside shouting!

Craig
Pvr4Craig is offline  
post #22 of 28 Old 01-03-2017, 03:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
ahard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: I'm in Florida
Posts: 708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvr4Craig View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahard View Post
Apple leaves it up to the user as to whether he/she wants to require a pin code or TouchID after a voice command is issued. But then that kind of defeats the purpose of a hands-free interface, which is what Siri, Google Home and Amazon Alexa are supposed to be. It's on Apple to implement fine grain control of how security devices interact with Siri. Amazon has built the permission structure for Echo such that you can't unlock a door lock or open a garage door control.

Here is a good article on this topic: http://www.forbes.com/sites/aarontil.../#55e5d8e16e8a
Re Alexa, do you have a reference on that? Because that's exactly the opposite of what I read just recently. Here is a similar link:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/amazo...ho-wayne-bevan

The author notes that Alexa will happily unlock the door for anyone. Even when their voice is being relayed by the home answering machine so no need to stand outside shouting!

Craig
Hi Craig. I think that the home automation skill creator, which is Wink in the article you linked to can do things differently than if a individual device that isnt apart of a hub based system is linked directly to Echo. My reference point is my hub which is Nexia. Nexia did the opposite of Wink. You cannot unlock my z-wave door locks or operating the z-wave garage door control using Amazon Echo. I just tried & the message I received from Alexa is that the device cannot do that command. Again, this something that the developer of the skill has to determine if being able to unlock a door using an unsecured device is appropriate. Nexia has specifically told customers that their security protocols don't give unsecured devices unlock permissions to premise control devices. So if you're a Nexia customer Echo will not unlock and premise entry devices. I can have Echo lock my doors or close the garage door, which seems reasonable from a security standpoint.
Pvr4Craig likes this.

Last edited by ahard; 01-03-2017 at 03:56 AM.
ahard is offline  
post #23 of 28 Old 01-12-2017, 06:57 AM
Senior Member
 
Pvr4Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Near Toronto, Canada
Posts: 462
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Re unlocking doors via Siri, I still don't have any direct experience but I ran across another relevant article. This article is focusing on using the Apple TV4 Siri interface and says:

Quote:
The only major limitation [using Siri on Apple TV4] is that you can’t control security devices such as door locks; these types of devices require authentication — usually via Touch ID or an Apple Watch with Wrist Detection enabled. And since the Apple TV doesn’t have any way of authenticating you, it will simply refuse to let you do anything with these accessories, directing you to issue the command on your iOS device instead. You can still check the status of your door locks, however (e.g. “Is the front door locked?”).
This seems to be contrary to what was posted previously. IOW, Homekit does protect against random folks unlocking your door by yelling at Siri. No?

Craig
Pvr4Craig is offline  
post #24 of 28 Old 01-25-2017, 04:10 AM
Member
 
jbanker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I need to clarify that we are both tinkerers and our testing was not basic out of the box user controls. We are using both native controls and third party protocols (IFTTT, Yonomi, Homebridge, etc...) to create various ways and recipes for interaction. Again we are testing possibilities to determine how we want these systems to work and interact and react with us and even each other. I also need to point out that amazon and apple appear to have been cracking down on these third party methods in recent months to bypass basic security and most of these implementations appear to be no longer supported by third party controls if they are not part of basic functionality allowed by echo or homekit. Homebridge still can be setup to allow voice control of locks and garage doors to work, so the point is, users simply need to be careful how they setup these interactions.
ahard likes this.
jbanker is offline  
post #25 of 28 Old 04-23-2019, 08:43 AM
Member
 
jbanker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Its been a while since I posted and I wanted to share my recent adventures into Automating, Apple Homekit, lighting, etc.. After all of my testing I decided to implement Home Assistant which is an open source Home Automation platform. I had a spare Macmini (2012 Model) that I was only using for a media server, so it only made since to use it for home assistant. It also serves as my NVR for my security cameras and its a great multifunction box for me. I use the Hassio version of Home Assistant, which is installed in virtual box (open source virtual machine software) on my Macmini, which allows me to easily migrate Hassio to a different systems down the road and make easy backups to restore my setup. If I want to play with a new feature of Hassio, I make a copy or snapshot of my virtual machine and make the tweaks I want. If I don't like those tweaks or something goes wrong, I can restore my prior/functioning setup back in minutes. If your a bit of a tinkerer, you do not need programing experience, just some patience and time. If you want to keep it simple you can start with a basic/standard configuration that should discover most of your devices with little customization, then initiate the Homekit integration, or google home integration, Alexa etc.., whichever you prefer. I use Apple Homekit and Siri, so a lot of my basic automations are setup in Homekit, not Home Assistant.

I have 10 z-wave switches, three hue bulbs, a Homekit Smart Lock and a Z-wave smart lock, ecobee thermostats, smart alarm, and Logitech Harmony one remotes at every end point/Tv. I decided to use Home Assistant because (1) it was open source, (2) it is local, not cloud based, and (3) it was very user customizable. Home Assistant integrates very seamlessly for Homekit currently as a hub, although it is currently unsupported by Apple, so it should be stated that Apple could lock out unsupported devices/hubs at anytime. At which point I think it would be time to give them the finger and move on if they choose to not be open to the DIY community. It has been working this way for several years and so far there is no indication that Apple will close or lockout these types of hubs.

All of my Z-wave lights, dimmer, etc.. work smoothly with HomeKit as well as my smart locks, wether Z-wave or HomeKit and I can use Siri control them all. I do have to unlock my phone or use touch id to open my garage doors or unlock my door locks. Any custom switches, automations, scripts, etc I create in Home Assistant can be brought into Homekit for further automation or control. So far its exactly what I was looking for to expand my DIY automation adventure.
jbanker is offline  
post #26 of 28 Old 07-25-2019, 06:40 AM
Senior Member
 
x-evil-x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 416
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Ive had all kinds of home automated hubs and controllers I guess I got started with zwave and harmony 890 remote to control them. I used those amazon led bulbs with ir on them and programmed the harmony to control them. They'd come up when I fired up the tv and off when I turned everything off. Some leds changed colors with the volume of certain devices and that was annoying to deal with. Mostly changed the leds to yellow or green. After that I went to hue and just kept expanding that. I had a wink hub for zwave stuff and my smart lock. Ive had luton Caséta stuff and just went back to them for the fan switch and HomeKit things. I have 25 or so hue bulbs and 6 or so strips around my place. I have an Alexa and google home which I barely use. I like the HomeKit stuff integration it works the fastest. I have over 50 scenes for different moods and location based automation with it all. I also have some ihome switches now. Also have the Ikea hub with led spotlights and picture lights. Everything works really good in HomeKit. Cant really stand how crappy the Alexa is in comparison and its slower. HomeKit seems basically instant for me and with so many bulbs its nice. Same for the wink hub. Had 1 and 2 and both where laggy for me. Having an appletv is nice also I can control all my lights and scenes with the remote with voice.
Also, the hue strips are the best on the market in terms of brightness and accuracy. I have Lifx strips and they are good for normal style of leds. They have zones which is nice but in terms of whites they suck compared to hue. Hue strips can look exactly like a 2700 or 3000k bulb. The lifx doesn't look quite right with those colors. Also the hue is softer and blends well better. Can go down to SUPER low brightness levels barely noticeable on the wall. Lifx can't go that dim which is big to me in certain areas. Only thing I don't like about the hue strips is that the leds are too far apart. So if you mount close to a wall that's white you'll see the breaks in light from the leds. Mounted further away from a wall and its fine though. Im hoping hue releases their outside led strip for indoors that you can cut and add on extensions to. They have a diffused cover and you cant tell where the leds are on it. Id much prefer that in certain situations around the house that you have to mount close to a wall or are visible.

Last edited by x-evil-x; 07-25-2019 at 06:44 AM.
x-evil-x is offline  
post #27 of 28 Old 04-17-2020, 01:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
tiger_qc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Quebec City, Canada
Posts: 968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Hi everyone, I didn't want to start a new thread so I'm using this one.

I'm using a homepod to control all my home kit compatible devices since it was released a couple of years ago. Unlike many people I thought it was pretty reliable and think it sounds and work a whole lot better than my Google Home speaker or Amazon Echo speaker. Since yesterday it's doing the same dumb thing that both android speaker always did. I have multiples smart lights in each rooms (wemo, lutron caeseta, sylvania) before yesterday if I said "hey siri turn on kitchen light" it was turning on the kitchen light alone but now it turns on all the kitchen lights together. To do such a thing before I had to say "hey siri turn on kitchen lights" the same happens in every room in my house, all the room have the main light called "*room name* light" and all the others have other names. Homekit is getting messier with all updates on ios 13 but this is really topping it for me I've been controlling lights with my voice since early 2018 or late 2017 and now I need to use my phone if I don't want to get blinded by too many lights.

Am I alone experiencing this?
I guess there's no way to fix this beside hoping Apple will fix this with the upcoming patch for ios 13.4.1...

LG OLED65C7P - Marantz SR6011 11.2
Samsung UBD-K8500 - Sony BDP-S1500 Region Free
Toshiba HD-A30 - Apple TV 4K - Harmony Elite
DVR+ CM7500GB16 with 200 Gb USB HDD - Sony PS3 500Gb
5 Paradigm & 6 Inwall/Ceiling Speakers - Klipsch & Energy Subs
tiger_qc is offline  
post #28 of 28 Old 04-18-2020, 05:41 AM
Senior Member
 
Pvr4Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Near Toronto, Canada
Posts: 462
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 33
I'm pretty amazed that this _ever_ worked. I would never have thought that Siri would reliably distinguish between "Blahblah light" and "Blahblah lights". What if you change it so that each main light is named "Main" or something like that. Then hopefully you would be able to say "Hey Siri, turn on the Main Blahblah light".

Craig
Pvr4Craig is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Home Automation

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off