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post #61 of 191 Old 09-15-2017, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Wright View Post
nuraman00>


(enclosed screen shot at 4K)

Software is determined by the NVR brand and model. So select wisely.

I spend a lot of time not in front of my TV but on a PC every day. I use IE for CCTV cameras but Chrome for everything else. When I open IE the 4x4 (16 camera) display is the home page. Nothing could be easier. Because it is a browser window I can change shape and size at will. I can choose to monitor 1,4,9 or 16 cameras. Watching 16 cameras in a browser is a load on the network but not so much on the CPU or GPU.
How do you feel about cameras inside? I see you have several, including one in the garage (if one wants to consider that "inside").

A few weeks ago, I was thinking of putting two cameras inside, where I currently have motion detectors as a part of my alarm system.

But out of all of the site evaluations, the one installer that came on-site suggested instead just to have great overlapping coverage outdoors rather than a little less outdoors + 2 indoors. (With a 5-8 camera purchase, as opposed to a greater amount).

He suggested that the increased overlapping coverage outdoors would be more beneficial.

He also said that people sometimes act funny or are self conscious if they know they're being recorded.

He said if I wanted to, I could later expand and keep indoor cameras when going on long vacations.

To me, that made sense. If I'm starting out with 8 cameras, and given the areas he showed where he'd place them, I could get better coverage outdoors.

If I wanted to expand in the future, I could add 2 where the motion sensors are, indoors.
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post #62 of 191 Old 09-15-2017, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone have any recommendations on a wall mountable 4K monitor? I think a 21 or 22" is fine. Probably a max of 41 or 42".
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post #63 of 191 Old 09-15-2017, 02:22 PM
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> How do you feel about cameras inside?

Confrontations frequently come down to two sides of the same story. Cameras never lie. One camera shows my front door in profile view, another shows my tool box and another both garage doors. Another camera is in the hallway one must traverse between two halves of the house.

In NM, in the small town where I lived, a woman called the police when she discovered a man in her house. The police found him hiding behind her shower curtain. The burglar/rapist offered: "Can't a guy take a leak in peace?"

Generally when one has a crime documented on video the other side pleads no-contest or starts looking for a plea bargain.

I have no cameras in any bed room or bathroom where anyone would have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

I had 8 cameras total, 7 outside, one inside. When I needed more cameras more than 16 would be overkill. So when I added 8 more cameras 5 were external, 3 were internal. I put an immense amount of thought into camera placement and I have zero regrets.

My system has no microphones, I record no audio. In PA it is illegal to record someone's voice without their consent. A microphone or recording device in plain sight is considered implied consent In the state of PA. If I thought it helpful I'd have a microphone in plane view at my front door. Recording audio is covered under "wire-taping" statutes and laws vary greatly from state to state.

Recording video is subject to different laws, generally you have no reasonable expectation to privacy in public. You do have a reasonable expectation of privacy in a bathroom or bedroom, even someone else's as long as you arrived their by legal means.

You write that you are worried about home invasion? If the folks get arrested or leave you for dead no doubt they will have an excuse why and how you knew them and owed them money or some other excuse.

Confrontations frequently come down to two sides of the same story. Cameras never lie.

Judges and juries pull back when there are two credible sides to a story. In contrast when the episode is on tape the perpetrators get zero sympathy and they get the maximum sentence.

I know someone who's house was robbed of maybe $100,000 in jewelry. They think it was a house keeper who had a key. If they had her (housekeeper) on video emptying the jewelry box the woman would never get out of jail.

Systems: (3) NASs with 64TB of movies and music; Oppo 105D DAT and optical drive; Rotel RC-1590 Preamp; Yamaha M2 power amp; Magnepan MG 3.7i speakers; 65" Samsung TV

(16) 5MP Alibi CCTV cameras & Alibi NVR just to keep an eye on things.
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post #64 of 191 Old 09-15-2017, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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> How do you feel about cameras inside?

Confrontations frequently come down to two sides of the same story. Cameras never lie. One camera shows my front door in profile view, another shows my tool box and another both garage doors. Another camera is in the hallway one must traverse between two halves of the house.

In NM, in the small town where I lived, a woman called the police when she discovered a man in her house. The police found him hiding behind her shower curtain. The burglar/rapist offered: "Can't a guy take a leak in peace?"

Generally when one has a crime documented on video the other side pleads no-contest or starts looking for a plea bargain.

I have no cameras in any bed room or bathroom where anyone would have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

I had 8 cameras total, 7 outside, one inside. When I needed more cameras more than 16 would be overkill. So when I added 8 more cameras 5 were external, 3 were internal. I put an immense amount of thought into camera placement and I have zero regrets.

My system has no microphones, I record no audio. In PA it is illegal to record someone's voice without their consent. A microphone or recording device in plain sight is considered implied consent In the state of PA. If I thought it helpful I'd have a microphone in plane view at my front door. Recording audio is covered under "wire-taping" statutes and laws vary greatly from state to state.

Recording video is subject to different laws, generally you have no reasonable expectation to privacy in public. You do have a reasonable expectation of privacy in a bathroom or bedroom, even someone else's as long as you arrived their by legal means.

You write that you are worried about home invasion? If the folks get arrested or leave you for dead no doubt they will have an excuse why and how you knew them and owed them money or some other excuse.

Confrontations frequently come down to two sides of the same story. Cameras never lie.

Judges and juries pull back when there are two credible sides to a story. In contrast when the episode is on tape the perpetrators get zero sympathy and they get the maximum sentence.

I know someone who's house was robbed of maybe $100,000 in jewelry. They think it was a house keeper who had a key. If they had her (housekeeper) on video emptying the jewelry box the woman would never get out of jail.
Thanks for sharing all of this.

That is scary about that intruder hiding behind the shower curtain.

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You write that you are worried about home invasion? If the folks get arrested or leave you for dead no doubt they will have an excuse why and how you knew them and owed them money or some other excuse.
I don't know if "worried" is the right word. But it happened on 7/31, and that's what prompted me to start looking into a camera security system. So that if something happened another time, I'd have some footage.
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post #65 of 191 Old 09-16-2017, 09:59 AM
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> That is scary about that intruder hiding behind the shower curtain.

And on the 8th day John Browning created the model 70 1911 colt in 45 ACP.

Systems: (3) NASs with 64TB of movies and music; Oppo 105D DAT and optical drive; Rotel RC-1590 Preamp; Yamaha M2 power amp; Magnepan MG 3.7i speakers; 65" Samsung TV

(16) 5MP Alibi CCTV cameras & Alibi NVR just to keep an eye on things.
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post #66 of 191 Old 09-16-2017, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone have any recommendations on a wall mountable 4K monitor? I think a 21 or 22" is fine. Probably a max of 41 or 42".
What do you think about this monitor:

https://www.amazon.com/LG-24UD58-B-2...words=24UD58-B

And this wall mount?

https://www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-ML1...esa+wall+mount

I've not been a fan of LG before, but it seems to meet the requirements of it being a 4K monitor with VESA mounting.
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post #67 of 191 Old 09-24-2017, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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What do you think about this. If I get a TV with built in Wi Fi, what if I were to use that TV's web interface to view the cameras? Would I still be viewing it at 4K?


If so, would that be better/easier than using a HDMI extender from the NVR?


If so, I could perhaps get the NVR model with 1 HDMI. Connect that to my 1080p TV downstairs.



Then use the new 4K TV's web interface upstairs to view it at 4K.



Do you think there would be any issues with lag or something?
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post #68 of 191 Old 09-24-2017, 08:19 PM
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> What do you think about this. If I get a TV...

As I said above, my software on my PC requires both a ULR and a port designation. My Samsung TVs are unable to port designate, Maybe your TV will be able to. One or two HD may work over WIFI, I know my 16 medium rez cameras will keep my Gbit Ethernet network rather busy. I am a big fan of hard wire for bandwidth and reliability.

Systems: (3) NASs with 64TB of movies and music; Oppo 105D DAT and optical drive; Rotel RC-1590 Preamp; Yamaha M2 power amp; Magnepan MG 3.7i speakers; 65" Samsung TV

(16) 5MP Alibi CCTV cameras & Alibi NVR just to keep an eye on things.
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post #69 of 191 Old 09-24-2017, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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> What do you think about this. If I get a TV...

As I said above, my software on my PC requires both a ULR and a port designation. My Samsung TVs are unable to port designate, Maybe your TV will be able to. One or two HD may work over WIFI, I know my 16 medium rez cameras will keep my Gbit Ethernet network rather busy. I am a big fan of hard wire for bandwidth and reliability.
Thanks, good point. Since this TV is to only be used for monitoring, I wouldn't want it to use Wi Fi bandwidth 24/7. HDMI bandwidth would be better (although even that would be using the HDMI extender which has a transmitter and receiver, so not 100% hardwired).

I think you also mentioned the port problem earlier. I just forgot, since there's different aspects of this that I've been thinking about.

Thanks for bringing it up again.
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post #70 of 191 Old 01-04-2018, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Just an update on this.

I had contacted many installers in August and September. But had decided to use an installer that supplied Dahau cameras and NVRs.

I had one quote from a Dahau installer. He stated his labor charges were high, and they were.

I had another quote from another installer in early September. At the time, it was for 5 cameras.

After further discussion and an onsite visit on September 24th, we decided on 8 cameras.

I had been waiting for a revised estimate since then. He kept saying he was busy but would get to me.


Yesterday, he told me that he no longer orders Dahau parts.



He said my options were to use his supplier, LTS. Or for me to buy by own parts and he would only do the install.


After doing this much research on Dahau cameras and NVRs, I'd prefer to stick with them. And it would help to have an installer that fully supported them, so I could have a single point of support and contact.


Especially since I'm looking for a NVR with 2 HDMI output ports because they will be going to two monitors at different resolutions. I don't know if that is a common feature across other brands.
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post #71 of 191 Old 01-05-2018, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuraman00 View Post
Just an update on this.

I had contacted many installers in August and September. But had decided to use an installer that supplied Dahau cameras and NVRs.

I had one quote from a Dahau installer. He stated his labor charges were high, and they were.

I had another quote from another installer in early September. At the time, it was for 5 cameras.

After further discussion and an onsite visit on September 24th, we decided on 8 cameras.

I had been waiting for a revised estimate since then. He kept saying he was busy but would get to me.


Yesterday, he told me that he no longer orders Dahau parts.



He said my options were to use his supplier, LTS. Or for me to buy by own parts and he would only do the install.


After doing this much research on Dahau cameras and NVRs, I'd prefer to stick with them. And it would help to have an installer that fully supported them, so I could have a single point of support and contact.


Especially since I'm looking for a NVR with 2 HDMI output ports because they will be going to two monitors at different resolutions. I don't know if that is a common feature across other brands.
Just to let you know Dahau cameras and NVRs as well as Hikvision cameras and NVR's are hacked. All hardware has an updated firmware that the enduser must apply. I would see if your source is familiar with the backdoor issue and whether you will be the one to update both the cameras and nvr's firmware.
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post #72 of 191 Old 01-06-2018, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Just to let you know Dahau cameras and NVRs as well as Hikvision cameras and NVR's are hacked. All hardware has an updated firmware that the enduser must apply. I would see if your source is familiar with the backdoor issue and whether you will be the one to update both the cameras and nvr's firmware.
How are they hacked or how can they be hacked?

Thanks for also mentioning Hikvision, since one other installer uses their products.

And you're saying that after the initial configuration, for security reasons, I should download the latest firmware for all products to patch this security issue?

Is there a link describing the security issue you're talking about?
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post #73 of 191 Old 01-06-2018, 12:40 PM
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Unless something has changed, LTS is rebranded Hikvision. If that installer gave you the warm and fuzzies, there's nothing wrong with LTS stuff. They also have physical locations all over the place.

You ever look at doing your own NVR with blue iris or similar product?
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post #74 of 191 Old 01-06-2018, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Unless something has changed, LTS is rebranded Hikvision. If that installer gave you the warm and fuzzies, there's nothing wrong with LTS stuff. They also have physical locations all over the place.

You ever look at doing your own NVR with blue iris or similar product?
I just learned about it after reading your post.

I then read this thread:

https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/advant...and-a-pc.7405/

I have a desktop PC which I use, but I don't want to dedicate it to running a blue iris system. If I had a spare desktop then I'd consider this.

How do you know LTS is rebranded Hikvision? But it sounds like you think Hikvision is ok.

Thanks.

Reading that thread about blue iris reminded me of one more thing.

Should I go with 4 MP, or would 2 MP be better for night vision? If 2MP (1080p), then I suppose I only need a single HDMI NVR since I wouldn't be outputting 2 different resolutions to 2 different monitors. If 4 MP, then one of the outputs would need to be to a 1080p monitor, one to a 4K monitor.

I am planning on 6 varifocal dome cameras for outdoors, and 2 varifocal eyeball cameras for outdoors.

Maybe I'd add one more to the garage. I liked @Timothy Wright's garage camera in post #44 of 73 .

But the side entrance to the garage also has 3 locks on it. I'd have to have left them unlocked; the garage door open; or the intruders would have to break inside the house first.

Last edited by nuraman00; 01-06-2018 at 01:26 PM.
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post #75 of 191 Old 01-06-2018, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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A dome camera is probably best in the garage, right?
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post #76 of 191 Old 01-06-2018, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Just to let you know Dahau cameras and NVRs as well as Hikvision cameras and NVR's are hacked. All hardware has an updated firmware that the enduser must apply. I would see if your source is familiar with the backdoor issue and whether you will be the one to update both the cameras and nvr's firmware.
I still don't understand the difference between Hikvision, and Hikvision OEM, as stated in this link. What does it mean to be a Hikvision OEM brand, vs. non OEM brand?


It it kind of like how for cars, Infiniti uses Nissan parts?



https://www.a1securitycameras.com/bl...vulnerability/
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post #77 of 191 Old 01-06-2018, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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In the past 6 months, I've used anywhere from 10 G a month in bandwidth, to 84 G a month.


How much bandwidth will 8 cameras recording 24/7 at 15fps, H.265 compression, and let's say worst case 4 MP resolution use?


My internet plan has a 1 TB limit.


This article though says bandwidth is only used when viewing footage, not recording?


https://blog.cammy.com/data-wireless...curity-systems


Is this true?


If I have a NVR outputting to 2 monitors at the same time, but I'm not viewing the footage, it's not going to use bandwidth?
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post #78 of 191 Old 01-06-2018, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuraman00 View Post

How much bandwidth will 8 cameras recording 24/7 at 15fps, H.265 compression, and let's say worst case 4 MP resolution use?


My internet plan has a 1 TB limit.


This article though says bandwidth is only used when viewing footage, not recording?


https://blog.cammy.com/data-wireless...curity-systems


Is this true?


If I have a NVR outputting to 2 monitors at the same time, but I'm not viewing the footage, it's not going to use bandwidth?
It depends on the product. If you use Nest, they have 2 options. 1 Nest Aware which continuously uploads to the cloud. This option will eat up your bandwidth. Think about 300-350 Gb per month. The 2 option only uses the web for notifications to your cell phone or email. This saves you bandwidth. What you lose is the ability to search any given time even those without setting off any warnings or notifications.

With Dahua cameras and NVRs as well as Hikvision cameras and NVR yes you would need to download the latest firmware as there is a backdoor that is wide open and anyone can access your system even if you changed the password. Here is a link you can read concerning Hikvision https://ipvm.com/reports/hik-backdoor. Follow the link to the US Government website and see all the products affected.Note that Grey Market hikvision products can never be fixed. Here is one concerning Dahua https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/03/...s-under-siege/ It lists all Dahua products affected. Both products are safe to use only when they are NOT connected to the internet. Kinda defeats the purpose of a security system if it cannot connect to the web when an alarm or notification pops up. Hikvision lists all its USA partners here http://www.hikvision.com/us/distribu...=45&c_kind3=56. If your source is not listed there he may be a grey market dealer and his product might be unable to upgrade to the newest firmware.
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post #79 of 191 Old 01-10-2018, 10:29 PM - Thread Starter
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It depends on the product. If you use Nest, they have 2 options. 1 Nest Aware which continuously uploads to the cloud. This option will eat up your bandwidth. Think about 300-350 Gb per month. The 2 option only uses the web for notifications to your cell phone or email. This saves you bandwidth. What you lose is the ability to search any given time even those without setting off any warnings or notifications.

With Dahua cameras and NVRs as well as Hikvision cameras and NVR yes you would need to download the latest firmware as there is a backdoor that is wide open and anyone can access your system even if you changed the password. Here is a link you can read concerning Hikvision https://ipvm.com/reports/hik-backdoor. Follow the link to the US Government website and see all the products affected.Note that Grey Market hikvision products can never be fixed. Here is one concerning Dahua https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/03/...s-under-siege/ It lists all Dahua products affected. Both products are safe to use only when they are NOT connected to the internet. Kinda defeats the purpose of a security system if it cannot connect to the web when an alarm or notification pops up. Hikvision lists all its USA partners here http://www.hikvision.com/us/distribu...=45&c_kind3=56. If your source is not listed there he may be a grey market dealer and his product might be unable to upgrade to the newest firmware.

Thank you. Whatever product I get, I will update the latest firmware.

If I get a Dahau system with a NVR, and have it recording on continuous, with suspicious notifications enabled, then it will only use bandwidth when the notifications are sent, right? Not during normal 24/7 recording?
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post #80 of 191 Old 01-11-2018, 01:04 AM
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correct. Only the notifications count against your internet total. Even then you can control whether you want a picture or a small video. You can record at 4k but send notifications as 640x480. You decide what you want in the confines of the software you use.
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post #81 of 191 Old 03-18-2018, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Had a meeting with a new installer for an evaluation.


I asked him about the alarm channels for the NVR. He said that was if you wanted to set a hardwired alarm so that it's connected to lights, your alarm system, or something else. Basically if some trigger event happens, then also do this (such as turn on some light). I don't think I'm going to do this.


From his evaluation, we talked about 5 varifocals and 4 fixed lens.


He was pushing for a 4 or 5 MP camera, saying they have improved noise filters. I told him I'd consider it, but had also wanted a quote for the IPC-HDW5231R-Z or IPC-HDW5231R-ZE.



I also asked about what if I were to source my own parts. He said he wouldn't be able to provide support for those parts, and he doesn't want to get into a situation where he can't provide support because it wasn't purchased through him.


He said Dahau would also refer me to the authorized dealer where it was purchased.


Maybe he just wants to make a profit on the parts. But it's also something to think about. I know people on the forums say they can help if there's a problem. But sometimes it's easier talking to someone on the phone, vs. a forum.


Let's see what the quoted prices for the various parts end up.


One other thing that came up, was how long the hard drive would last. He said with recording at 24/7, he's not sure how long they'd last, maybe less than a year, even for a Western Digital Purple. Or, he said there might be some lost sectors, decreasing the overall capacity. What does everyone think about this?
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post #82 of 191 Old 03-21-2018, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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So the 9th camera I thought about adding last week would be in the garage.

Do you think there would be enough light at night, either when the side door is opened that connects to the side yard, or the garage door itself?
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post #83 of 191 Old 04-03-2018, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Do I need a 4K HDMI Extender, if the HDW5231R-ZE cameras are 2MP? Or is a 1080p HDMI Extender sufficient?
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post #84 of 191 Old 04-03-2018, 01:40 PM
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HD cams and large hard drives

I had a problem maybe 5 years ago, some charming children spray painted my retaining wall and being porous it was impossible to remove completely all the paint. It cost my home owners's insurance $19,000. The local police told me they knew who did the vandalism by my video was not high enough quality to successfully prosecute. My point is I'd always rather error on the side of much better video quality when ever possible.

My NVR is a few years old and supports (3) 4TB hard drives. Hard drives are so inexpensive that whatever size I purchased I'd just get the largest supported capacity and fill every bay. I was speaking to the management of a restaurant and their cameras go back 120+ days. In my experience the security hard drives last about 5 years. I'm sure my cameras go back that far for my 16 cameras which run off of motion detection.

Systems: (3) NASs with 64TB of movies and music; Oppo 105D DAT and optical drive; Rotel RC-1590 Preamp; Yamaha M2 power amp; Magnepan MG 3.7i speakers; 65" Samsung TV

(16) 5MP Alibi CCTV cameras & Alibi NVR just to keep an eye on things.
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post #85 of 191 Old 04-06-2018, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I had a problem maybe 5 years ago, some charming children spray painted my retaining wall and being porous it was impossible to remove completely all the paint. It cost my home owners's insurance $19,000. The local police told me they knew who did the vandalism by my video was not high enough quality to successfully prosecute. My point is I'd always rather error on the side of much better video quality when ever possible.

My NVR is a few years old and supports (3) 4TB hard drives. Hard drives are so inexpensive that whatever size I purchased I'd just get the largest supported capacity and fill every bay. I was speaking to the management of a restaurant and their cameras go back 120+ days. In my experience the security hard drives last about 5 years. I'm sure my cameras go back that far for my 16 cameras which run off of motion detection.
Thanks for sharing.

If you feel comfortable, can you share what the spray paint video looks like? I'm curious as to what video quality was deemed not good enough. Maybe it was lacking in some angles?

Also, do you have any advice as to what type of HDMI Extender would be sufficient, from my 04/03 post?
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post #86 of 191 Old 04-07-2018, 06:09 AM
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>Thanks for sharing.

> If you feel comfortable, can you share what the spray paint video looks like? I'm curious as to what video quality was deemed not good enough. Maybe it was lacking in some angles?

> Also, do you have any advice as to what type of HDMI Extender would be sufficient, from my 04/03 post?

Incident was at night, at the end of my driveway 50' from the camera and perps were wearing hoodies so the face shots were not good enough for a positive ID.

My NVR is network as are all my PC so I simply use a PC browser to watch security footage. The browsers built into TV's lack the ability to specify a port in the URL and thus are not amenable to monitoring the security cameras. One way to solve your problem would be to use a PC or laptop to feed the TV.

Systems: (3) NASs with 64TB of movies and music; Oppo 105D DAT and optical drive; Rotel RC-1590 Preamp; Yamaha M2 power amp; Magnepan MG 3.7i speakers; 65" Samsung TV

(16) 5MP Alibi CCTV cameras & Alibi NVR just to keep an eye on things.
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post #87 of 191 Old 04-07-2018, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Wright View Post
>Thanks for sharing.

> If you feel comfortable, can you share what the spray paint video looks like? I'm curious as to what video quality was deemed not good enough. Maybe it was lacking in some angles?

> Also, do you have any advice as to what type of HDMI Extender would be sufficient, from my 04/03 post?

Incident was at night, at the end of my driveway 50' from the camera and perps were wearing hoodies so the face shots were not good enough for a positive ID.
Darn. So they were prepared for the incident and concealed themselves.

I guess you deduced they were kids, based on their heights?

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>Thanks for sharing.



My NVR is network as are all my PC so I simply use a PC browser to watch security footage. The browsers built into TV's lack the ability to specify a port in the URL and thus are not amenable to monitoring the security cameras. One way to solve your problem would be to use a PC or laptop to feed the TV.
Thanks.

I was asking whether I needed a 4K HDMI Extender from the NVR, to the upstairs TV, or whether a 1080p HDMI Extender would be sufficient, since the cameras are 2MP and not a higher resolution.
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post #88 of 191 Old 04-11-2018, 02:34 PM
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I read the entire thread... I don’t usually do that. O.P. My advice is to hire someone you trust to do the entire job and pay them. They are worth what they ask. They have learned how to do this right at an expense to them. Listen to them. Not every professional is a crook. No offense but after reading all your questions.. the reply’s and then the questions that followed their reply’s... its my opinion you will be much better off paying someone who knows what they are doing.

I cringe even at the brands and retail locations you’re considering. Sometimes it’s not really cheaper when it’s all said and done.

Imagine a year and a half from now you end up calling a professional because this or that isn’t right.. he’s going to suggest you replace the entire system at that time. Why not do that now, move on to another project.
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post #89 of 191 Old 04-11-2018, 03:10 PM
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I read the entire thread... I don’t usually do that. O.P. My advice is to hire someone you trust to do the entire job and pay them. They are worth what they ask. They have learned how to do this right at an expense to them. Listen to them. Not every professional is a crook. No offense but after reading all your questions.. the reply’s and then the questions that followed their reply’s... its my opinion you will be much better off paying someone who knows what they are doing.

I cringe even at the brands and retail locations you’re considering. Sometimes it’s not really cheaper when it’s all said and done.

Imagine a year and a half from now you end up calling a professional because this or that isn’t right.. he’s going to suggest you replace the entire system at that time. Why not do that now, move on to another project.
==============
I would like to second that opinion. In my case I called the local Catholic Dioceses because they have a history and experience with the highest standards professional security and surveillance. I asked them who they use for alarms and cameras. They referred me to locally owned very reputable firm and after a lot of consulting, (asking me what I needed and expected) they did a turn key solution, both alarms and cameras for me. I had wire to pull in almost every room, I now have network wire outlets in almost every room. I hate it when some slob has exposed wire dropping out of the ceiling it looks like schyte. For their expertise not only with alarms, but with cameras and with wire pulling I'd go pro and I would never look back.

1, my system is discrete.
2, my system is uber reliable.
3, ten years after the install I've few to zero problems.
4, When I have a problem the company sends a technician the next day and I don't have to fool with it.

Pulling wire in particular can be frustrating and a epic waste of time. When my cameras were installed the crew pulled almost all the wire for my 16 cameras in 2-3 hours. It would have taken me 2-3 weeks. I'd consider doing the job myself in new construction if the house had no drywall. But if that were the case then why not still get a professional install, if the job would be easy for me then it would be also that much less expensive for a pro.

Systems: (3) NASs with 64TB of movies and music; Oppo 105D DAT and optical drive; Rotel RC-1590 Preamp; Yamaha M2 power amp; Magnepan MG 3.7i speakers; 65" Samsung TV

(16) 5MP Alibi CCTV cameras & Alibi NVR just to keep an eye on things.
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post #90 of 191 Old 04-16-2018, 12:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm close to narrowing it down between two installers.

One question though. While many of the other installers have said that I would need conduit in some areas, one of the installers said for those locations, it was up to me. They said they could use it if I wanted, but they didn't have a strong recommendation about whether I needed it.

What do you think? Do you think it would be a good idea, if an area could use it?
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