Control4 Is the WORST! Stay Away! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 9Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 50 Old 05-26-2019, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Angry Control4 Is the WORST! Stay Away!

I have been a hostage of Control4 for the past 7 years. This is a dealer-focused system, meaning you will have to pay for everything little quirk that occurs because you have to be Einstein in order to do anything yourself. My nightmare included a company in the Phoenix Area called Independent Electric who was a Control 4 dealer. They managed to convince me to spend over $10k on all the equipment and stuff so I could watch TV and listen to music anywhere in my house. After their horrendous installation in my equipment closet (it literally had cords bunched up with equipment on top of the cords) i continued to spend hundreds if not thousands more for every little item that went wrong. The best part is that they abandoned me and I had to find a new dealer and that guy just loved to charge $150/hr for learning about my equipment. Trust me...Control4 is the absolute worst system you can purchase. Right now, I cannot operate any of my TV's because for some reason, Control 4 does not have an internet connection. I will be ripping every item from the POS company out next week and using my AppleTV instead.
Matt Stultz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 50 Old 05-26-2019, 01:14 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mntneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Martinsburg, WV
Posts: 2,905
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Stultz View Post
I have been a hostage of Control4 for the past 7 years. This is a dealer-focused system, meaning you will have to pay for everything little quirk that occurs because you have to be Einstein in order to do anything yourself. My nightmare included a company in the Phoenix Area called Independent Electric who was a Control 4 dealer. They managed to convince me to spend over $10k on all the equipment and stuff so I could watch TV and listen to music anywhere in my house. After their horrendous installation in my equipment closet (it literally had cords bunched up with equipment on top of the cords) i continued to spend hundreds if not thousands more for every little item that went wrong. The best part is that they abandoned me and I had to find a new dealer and that guy just loved to charge $150/hr for learning about my equipment. Trust me...Control4 is the absolute worst system you can purchase. Right now, I cannot operate any of my TV's because for some reason, Control 4 does not have an internet connection. I will be ripping every item from the POS company out next week and using my AppleTV instead.
It's a shame that you have had a bad experience like that with a dealer from 7 years ago, as a well installed system should run problem free for years. Eventually some problems do arise, but most are easy to solve and fix. Sometimes you have hardware failures, or third party components not working correctly. Yes, many dealers do charge quite a bit per hour for service, and while $150 is high in many markets, we don't work for free and often charge as much per hour as a plumber, electrician or HVAC technicians.

If you gave us a little more background on your current system, what components you have, we may be able to help you get it running like it should. Even without an internet connection, an HDMI matrix should still function properly within the system.
Mntneer is offline  
post #3 of 50 Old 05-26-2019, 07:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
David Haddad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Stultz View Post
I have been a hostage of Control4 for the past 7 years. This is a dealer-focused system, meaning you will have to pay for everything little quirk that occurs because you have to be Einstein in order to do anything yourself. My nightmare included a company in the Phoenix Area called Independent Electric who was a Control 4 dealer. They managed to convince me to spend over $10k on all the equipment and stuff so I could watch TV and listen to music anywhere in my house. After their horrendous installation in my equipment closet (it literally had cords bunched up with equipment on top of the cords) i continued to spend hundreds if not thousands more for every little item that went wrong. The best part is that they abandoned me and I had to find a new dealer and that guy just loved to charge $150/hr for learning about my equipment. Trust me...Control4 is the absolute worst system you can purchase. Right now, I cannot operate any of my TV's because for some reason, Control 4 does not have an internet connection. I will be ripping every item from the POS company out next week and using my AppleTV instead.
Did that rant make you feel better :-)? Sounds to me like this has more to do with "stay away from this installation company" than it does Control4. I don't work with Control4 but the processor having an Internet connection should not impact whether you can watch TV.
David Haddad is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 50 Old 05-26-2019, 08:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
smoothtlk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,236
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 273 Post(s)
Liked: 84
I wonder if the OP is really speaking of "no network connection". Which, if that was the case, is much more likely the installer not C4.
smoothtlk is offline  
post #5 of 50 Old 05-26-2019, 08:36 PM
Advanced Member
 
David Haddad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothtlk View Post
I wonder if the OP is really speaking of "no network connection". Which, if that was the case, is much more likely the installer not C4.
That's what I guessed is the real issue too. If they had a remote management system on it with a power controller that could be solved in 15 minutes without ever walking onto the property. Something probably needs to be rebooted. As far as I'm concerned no system of this type should be installed without remote management so that if the Client experiences an issue like this, it can usually be solved in minutes.
David Haddad is offline  
post #6 of 50 Old 05-26-2019, 08:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mntneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Martinsburg, WV
Posts: 2,905
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothtlk View Post
I wonder if the OP is really speaking of "no network connection". Which, if that was the case, is much more likely the installer not C4.
So many issues boil down to either network issues, or third party product issues. Occasionally there are the hardware failures, even in C4, but those are unavoidable in almost any consumer grade electronic.
Mntneer is offline  
post #7 of 50 Old 05-27-2019, 04:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
markmon1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,315
Mentioned: 100 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4475 Post(s)
Liked: 2811
Any system that requires a tech / dealer to do configuration work or changes to is a non starter for me. I think this is the OP's point as well. He's not complaining that the control 4 has no internet. He's complaining that its something that is setup as such that he cannot investigate / fix himself. I agree everyone should stay far away from this sort of thing.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
markmon1 is offline  
post #8 of 50 Old 05-27-2019, 10:27 AM
Advanced Member
 
David Haddad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 22
I do not work with Control4, so what follows is my opinion as an observer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Any system that requires a tech / dealer to do configuration work or changes to is a non starter for me.
Totally understand and relate to that, I recently laughed at an IT company trying to sell me on their services that locks down their switches so no one can access them.

That said, Control 4 does in fact offer the ability for end users to change settings that meets the needs of many. And if someone wants complete control I suspect they could find an installer willing to work with them on that. There are even C4 user forums out there.

Quote:
I think this is the OP's point as well. He's not complaining that the control 4 has no internet. He's complaining that its something that is setup as such that he cannot investigate / fix himself.
Actually he could investigate now, as this is most likely a network issue. In fact this is a pretty good example of why solutions such as Control4 are great for a lot of people, many of whom want turn key service and don't want to be messing with spending days/months learning to set up home automation systems or configuring networks. nor spending time maintaining them. And BTW, there's a pretty good change this could be fixed in minutes with a reboot. If he's still reading I'd start with the router in case the C4 system has lost it's IP address on the network.
Quote:
I agree everyone some people should stay far away from this sort of thing, if they are a DIY that want's complete control of their system, and/or can't find an installer that will work with them on that. However systems such as Control4 are great for professionals that want a high-end home automation system and want someone to install and service it for them.
I corrected your statement :-).
David Haddad is offline  
post #9 of 50 Old 05-27-2019, 10:29 AM
Senior Member
 
bryantc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 396
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 253 Post(s)
Liked: 183
Its so funny whenever there is a post about a bad Control4 experience the answer from the fanatics is always "find a better dealer".


How about ditch the dealer altogether. These types of systems are a total dead end. They served their purpose back in the 80s and 90s but the world has moved on.

Media: LG 77" OLED 4K C8 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original) - Family: Sony 85" 4K XBR-85X900F / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / C64 Mini - Game: Hisense 55" 4K 55H8C / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K
bryantc is offline  
post #10 of 50 Old 05-27-2019, 11:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mntneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Martinsburg, WV
Posts: 2,905
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
Its so funny whenever there is a post about a bad Control4 experience the answer from the fanatics is always "find a better dealer".


How about ditch the dealer altogether. These types of systems are a total dead end. They served their purpose back in the 80s and 90s but the world has moved on.
Because not everyone is capable of doing it themselves. It's no different than Plumbing, Electrical or HVAC (or a number of other residential trades). The people I work for a people who either don't have the time to do it themselves, or the technical knowledge to do it themselves.

There is something to be said for a turnkey solution that requires no hands on work by the client, and while I can certainly install a faucet in my house, I'm still going to call a professional to install a Water Softener or Water Heater.
Mntneer is offline  
post #11 of 50 Old 05-27-2019, 12:52 PM
Member
 
kanaka1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Stultz View Post
I have been a hostage of Control4 for the past 7 years. This is a dealer-focused system, meaning you will have to pay for everything little quirk that occurs because you have to be Einstein in order to do anything yourself. My nightmare included a company in the Phoenix Area called Independent Electric who was a Control 4 dealer. They managed to convince me to spend over $10k on all the equipment and stuff so I could watch TV and listen to music anywhere in my house. After their horrendous installation in my equipment closet (it literally had cords bunched up with equipment on top of the cords) i continued to spend hundreds if not thousands more for every little item that went wrong. The best part is that they abandoned me and I had to find a new dealer and that guy just loved to charge $150/hr for learning about my equipment. Trust me...Control4 is the absolute worst system you can purchase. Right now, I cannot operate any of my TV's because for some reason, Control 4 does not have an internet connection. I will be ripping every item from the POS company out next week and using my AppleTV instead.
control4 is an awesome system if installed and programmed correctly.you had a bad dealer experience.post pictures of the installers name and the bad install on this forum.i would also send the picture and your dealer experience directly to control4 itself.

Samsung QN75Q70R Denon AVRX7200WA
Klipsch RB-81 II fronts Klipsch RC-62 II center
Klipsch R-5800-W II in-wall rears
Klipsch CDT-5650-C II ceiling(4)
HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP sub
kanaka1 is offline  
post #12 of 50 Old 05-27-2019, 01:46 PM
Advanced Member
 
David Haddad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
Its so funny whenever there is a post about a bad Control4 experience the answer from the fanatics is always "find a better dealer".

How about ditch the dealer altogether. These types of systems are a total dead end. They served their purpose back in the 80s and 90s but the world has moved on.
Ironic post above as it's fanatical, inaccurate, and all black/white.

As far as "find a better installer", when someone has a home built and it has all sorts of issues, people usually have the common sense to realize they should be blaming the builder. Rather than ranting "don't ever buy a house!". Though it's understandable that when it happens with electronics it's often the manufacturer that gets blamed - and to be clear no one disputes there are instances in which manufacturers do sell buggy products.

In this instance the OP even stated that the installation was so bad the components were laying on tops of cords, so ya, it's pretty obvious this was not a good installation. Oh, and the reason installers often tell people "find a better installer" is that they have some knowledge of which systems should be reliable and when it's likely an installation related issue.
David Haddad is offline  
post #13 of 50 Old 05-27-2019, 02:43 PM
Advanced Member
 
David Haddad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Just happened to read this as I was reading some news. Pretty funny, and the perfect example of why tons of people prefer or need to have someone else assist with their tech world, whatever that might be (phones, computers, automation etc.)

https://www.zdnet.com/article/i-spen...ople-reported/
David Haddad is offline  
post #14 of 50 Old 05-27-2019, 03:16 PM
Senior Member
 
bryantc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 396
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 253 Post(s)
Liked: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mntneer View Post
Because not everyone is capable of doing it themselves. It's no different than Plumbing, Electrical or HVAC (or a number of other residential trades). The people I work for a people who either don't have the time to do it themselves, or the technical knowledge to do it themselves.

There is something to be said for a turnkey solution that requires no hands on work by the client, and while I can certainly install a faucet in my house, I'm still going to call a professional to install a Water Softener or Water Heater.
These analogies aren't even remotely relevant. Plumbing and AC are install it and forget it systems. You never need to worry about them again until they break.


Home automation by its very nature is something that you are going to constantly tweak and add to (not to mention its going to break down a lot more than other systems in your house too). Having to constantly go thru a dealer for this is not something most people are going to want.



Yes there are people who will gladly pay to have someone else do everything for them. Just like there are people who pay to have someone "install" a new TV for them. These people aren't very likely to be posting on online forums though.

Media: LG 77" OLED 4K C8 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original) - Family: Sony 85" 4K XBR-85X900F / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / C64 Mini - Game: Hisense 55" 4K 55H8C / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K
bryantc is offline  
post #15 of 50 Old 05-27-2019, 03:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Defcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,902
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1535 Post(s)
Liked: 858
Control4 is above my pay grade and I don't own anything with that feature or anything bought from a dealer, but from what I've seen over last few years, the home assistants like Alexa/Google Home and HDME CEC have basically made all these systems including universal remotes, Harmony, Control4 etc redundant.

I can use my voice to turn on and off my tv, receiver, bluray player with a single command, control features, change inputs etc. Any remote works with other devices using CEC. I don't have smart lights etc but all those can be linked together in routines.

All of this needed NO other expense or equipment, its all built in and keeps improving with software updates. Why do people need more? Or rather, what else does Control4 offer?
Defcon is offline  
post #16 of 50 Old 05-27-2019, 03:34 PM
Senior Member
 
bryantc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 396
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 253 Post(s)
Liked: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Haddad View Post
Ironic post above as it's fanatical, inaccurate, and all black/white.

As far as "find a better installer", when someone has a home built and it has all sorts of issues, people usually have the common sense to realize they should be blaming the builder. Rather than ranting "don't ever buy a house!". Though it's understandable that when it happens with electronics it's often the manufacturer that gets blamed - and to be clear no one disputes there are instances in which manufacturers do sell buggy products.

In this instance the OP even stated that the installation was so bad the components were laying on tops of cords, so ya, it's pretty obvious this was not a good installation. Oh, and the reason installers often tell people "find a better installer" is that they have some knowledge of which systems should be reliable and when it's likely an installation related issue.
Control4 is responsible for their dealers. It shouldn't be the customers responsibility to have to go thru a dozen different dealers to find one that is actually good. You'd think they would have more oversight over how their products are being sold but seems like they are just happy to have anyone sell them. Even their "diamond" and "platinum" rankings are based on nothing but sales numbers rather than actual quality of service.

Media: LG 77" OLED 4K C8 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original) - Family: Sony 85" 4K XBR-85X900F / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / C64 Mini - Game: Hisense 55" 4K 55H8C / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K
bryantc is offline  
post #17 of 50 Old 05-27-2019, 03:48 PM
Senior Member
 
bryantc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 396
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 253 Post(s)
Liked: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defcon View Post
Control4 is above my pay grade and I don't own anything with that feature or anything bought from a dealer, but from what I've seen over last few years, the home assistants like Alexa/Google Home and HDME CEC have basically made all these systems including universal remotes, Harmony, Control4 etc redundant.

I can use my voice to turn on and off my tv, receiver, bluray player with a single command, control features, change inputs etc. Any remote works with other devices using CEC. I don't have smart lights etc but all those can be linked together in routines.

All of this needed NO other expense or equipment, its all built in and keeps improving with software updates. Why do people need more? Or rather, what else does Control4 offer?
Nothing. Its at the high end of the market and its just going to get pushed further up as the consumer platforms become more powerful. Assuming they are able to stay in business that is.

Media: LG 77" OLED 4K C8 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original) - Family: Sony 85" 4K XBR-85X900F / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / C64 Mini - Game: Hisense 55" 4K 55H8C / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K
bryantc is offline  
post #18 of 50 Old 05-27-2019, 04:04 PM
Member
 
Steve Sleeve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 158
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Control 4 (for the large majority of on commercial accounts of course not in every case) is for people that are wealthy, driven and value their time being successful in their careers so much so that they find it worth having everything handed to them reliably working for AV in their home. If you are not wealthy and don't mind researching and doing it yourself there are cheaper options that will work as well.

Denon AVR-X6500h Klipsch RP-8000f RP-440C (4) RP-150MS sides in parallel RB-51 rears, 4 JBL C67P pendants for atmos, 2 monolith 12" subs
Epson 5040UB, Sony Ubp-X700, AC infintiy T9, Nvidia Shield, 142" 2.35 silver ticket screen
Steve Sleeve is offline  
post #19 of 50 Old 05-27-2019, 04:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Defcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,902
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1535 Post(s)
Liked: 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Dohring View Post
Control 4 (for the large majority of on commercial accounts of course not in every case) is for people that are wealthy, driven and value their time being successful in their careers so much so that they find it worth having everything handed to them reliably working for AV in their home. If you are not wealthy and don't mind researching and doing it yourself there are cheaper options that will work as well.
I like researching stuff (anyone on this site is in a tiny minority by definition) but none of this is complicated and is actually meant for normal people - I'm talking about all the smart assistant enabled devices. Walk into BestBuy or go online and nearly every single thing has it built and will keep increasing.

Control4 etc will remain as an option for custom integrators who will then get to sell you custom addons/switches etc. Like the OP said if you need to change or fix anything you just spend more $$. Its not better in any meaningful sense, just different and not affordable by others, which is the key quality wealthy people want.
Stephen Dohring likes this.
Defcon is offline  
post #20 of 50 Old 05-27-2019, 06:18 PM
Advanced Member
 
David Haddad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
Control4 is responsible for their dealers. It shouldn't be the customers responsibility to have to go thru a dozen different dealers to find one that is actually good. You'd think they would have more oversight over how their products are being sold but seems like they are just happy to have anyone sell them. Even their "diamond" and "platinum" rankings are based on nothing but sales numbers rather than actual quality of service.
I couldn't agree with you more that manufacturers should work to do a better job with this, as well as have internal teams whose sole function is to work to correct situations where customers have installations that were botched. Here's a before and after picture of an installation we redid just a few weeks ago. The before installation was done my a major multi-million dollar company.

Half of these large companies don't even have any QC program in place, and go through a never ending cycle of techs.

Unfortunately this type of poor quality work is rampant not just in my field but the entire construction industry and beyond.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Before.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	1.13 MB
ID:	2572566   Click image for larger version

Name:	After.jpg
Views:	43
Size:	349.0 KB
ID:	2572568  
David Haddad is offline  
post #21 of 50 Old 05-27-2019, 07:27 PM
Advanced Member
 
David Haddad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 22
The hilarious claims that systems such as alexa et al are just as good and/or make these systems obsolete have been being made on these forums for 20 years or more. 10 years back it was guys arguing the same about PC based systems. 99% of the time the statements are being made by someone who's never owned or had any experience with the systems they're critiquing.

Quote:
home assistants like Alexa/Google Home and HDME CEC have basically made all these systems including universal
This is just so far from the truth it deserves a big LOL. The biggest challenge in the industry is these systems aren't even close to universal, and the plug and play nature of these systems results in them being vastly limited in what their capabilities are. It's why companies such as Crestron, RTI and Control4 etc. will continue to thrive for the foreseeable future and are still used by the vast majority of installers, because they are cross platform and work with anything, and without them what's possible is limited.

This is usually where someone usually shows up and starts claiming their $89 SmartThings hub can do everything Crestron can do.

Below is a voice rec system with natural language recognition and compound command capabilities that costs over 10x what Amazon and Google do. No doubt some folks here will be telling how "Alexa can do all that". I've never understood this need people have to convince themselves their cheaper stuff is just as good no matter how far from factual it is. My Ford gets me from point A to point B just fine for my needs, but I don't have to kid myself every day that "Mercedes are just for rich folks and my Ford does everything it can do".

I'm now going to exit this thread and take a drive in my just as good as a Mercedes Ford to get a just as good as the fancy places McDonalds burger.

David Haddad is offline  
post #22 of 50 Old 05-28-2019, 05:38 AM
Advanced Member
 
ezlotogura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 237 Post(s)
Liked: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
Control4 is responsible for their dealers. It shouldn't be the customers responsibility to have to go thru a dozen different dealers to find one that is actually good. You'd think they would have more oversight over how their products are being sold but seems like they are just happy to have anyone sell them. Even their "diamond" and "platinum" rankings are based on nothing but sales numbers rather than actual quality of service.
sometimes it is a 2 way street. I always say there are 3 sides to the story - the home owner, the dealer and the truth is somewhere in between. It is very easy for a home owner to come onto a forum and rant about a product/service, etc. But maybe the dealer told them I will do XYZ and the owner heard they will get ABC and there is a disconnect.

So instead of saying "my dealer is bad" a lot of times you need more info. Maybe the home owner wanted to "own" the network, the dealer installed C4, there are wrong settings on the switches and things are going haywire. Is that the dealers fault?

Lastly - there are plenty of people who want a set it / forget it solution and who also want to outsource it. That is where C4, Crestron, RTI, Savant, etc all find their customers.

Lastly - Alexa is control, not automation. So when you say I can do it all with Alexa, frankly, you are wrong. You can control things, you cannot automate things. An example I give is I can get my kwikset deadbolt to talk to my DSC Security panel to talk to my C4 lighting to talk to my Sonos music and to talk to my GE laundry. When my housekeeper comes over she puts 1 code into my door. door unlocks, alarm off. lights on, music on. when she leaves, she locks the door with 1 press of a button, alarm engages, music off, lights off and my laundry machine starts because she left the rags in there to be cleaned. This all gets done with a code to enter my house (4-6 digits) and 1 press of the lock button to leave. This isnt a competition, just merely saying a true automation system (c4 or others) are more than control systems (Alexa).
David Haddad likes this.
ezlotogura is online now  
post #23 of 50 Old 05-28-2019, 08:04 AM
Advanced Member
 
ezlotogura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 237 Post(s)
Liked: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defcon View Post
Control4 is above my pay grade and I don't own anything with that feature or anything bought from a dealer, but from what I've seen over last few years, the home assistants like Alexa/Google Home and HDME CEC have basically made all these systems including universal remotes, Harmony, Control4 etc redundant.

I can use my voice to turn on and off my tv, receiver, bluray player with a single command, control features, change inputs etc. Any remote works with other devices using CEC. I don't have smart lights etc but all those can be linked together in routines.

All of this needed NO other expense or equipment, its all built in and keeps improving with software updates. Why do people need more? Or rather, what else does Control4 offer?
what you described is control, not automation. besides, is watching tv shouting out channel #s a good experience? A remote is necessarily for 90% of people to watch TV. Control4 offers a remote but that is 1/100th of the ecosystem. I gave an example below of automation with my housekeeper and how appliances from 4-5 vendors all act together, in unison. if you want to just turn a TV on/off, Control4 is overkill. if you want to automate your house, c4 is a great option. From an automation standpoint, I rarely turn lights on/off anymore in my house. That is not control, its automation, and a very simple example people use daily.
ezlotogura is online now  
post #24 of 50 Old 05-28-2019, 10:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Defcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,902
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1535 Post(s)
Liked: 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezlotogura View Post
what you described is control, not automation. besides, is watching tv shouting out channel #s a good experience? A remote is necessarily for 90% of people to watch TV. Control4 offers a remote but that is 1/100th of the ecosystem. I gave an example below of automation with my housekeeper and how appliances from 4-5 vendors all act together, in unison. if you want to just turn a TV on/off, Control4 is overkill. if you want to automate your house, c4 is a great option. From an automation standpoint, I rarely turn lights on/off anymore in my house. That is not control, its automation, and a very simple example people use daily.
You make a good distinction and the example you gave above is certainly not possible with these assistants. However I believe there must be a middle ground between dealer installed and configured $$$$ systems and something the user can do herself. e.g. there used to be home automation kits (x500, Zigby etc, forgot the names).

Also i think even in the example you gave above, if all those devices had Google/Alexa integration builtin, you can create a routine to automate all those tasks . The key here is the trigger - in your example its entering a code, or it could be voice command, or facial recognition, or biometrics - after that everything runs.
Defcon is offline  
post #25 of 50 Old 05-28-2019, 10:46 AM
Advanced Member
 
ezlotogura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 650
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 237 Post(s)
Liked: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defcon View Post
You make a good distinction and the example you gave above is certainly not possible with these assistants. However I believe there must be a middle ground between dealer installed and configured $$$$ systems and something the user can do herself. e.g. there used to be home automation kits (x500, Zigby etc, forgot the names).

Also i think even in the example you gave above, if all those devices had Google/Alexa integration builtin, you can create a routine to automate all those tasks . The key here is the trigger - in your example its entering a code, or it could be voice command, or facial recognition, or biometrics - after that everything runs.
there are middle ground options like Vera or Smartthings. Just be careful because a few other "big box store" hubs have come and gone. And those hubs cannot control as many devices as a CI offering. People on here rep Allnois and CQC which by their claims can replicate a Custom Install experience without requiring the use of the dealer.

Mind you, once your dealer sets up control4, you can do 100% of programming with Composer Home Edition. So its a middle ground, but still an expensive not 100% DIY option.
ezlotogura is online now  
post #26 of 50 Old 05-28-2019, 03:04 PM
Senior Member
 
bryantc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 396
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 253 Post(s)
Liked: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Haddad View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su0iY7MV0ZE
Below is a voice rec system with natural language recognition and compound command capabilities that costs over 10x what Amazon and Google do. No doubt some folks here will be telling how "Alexa can do all that".
Because it can. There is not a single example of automation in that video. That is just the most basic level of control that any system could get you including alexa, apple, google, smartthings, etc. 10x the cost?? Sorry but that guy got ripped off.

Media: LG 77" OLED 4K C8 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original) - Family: Sony 85" 4K XBR-85X900F / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / C64 Mini - Game: Hisense 55" 4K 55H8C / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K
bryantc is offline  
post #27 of 50 Old 05-28-2019, 03:38 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 26,274
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2178 Post(s)
Liked: 1383
Judging by the OP's grammar and lack of sophistication in describing his problem(s), my guess is that he bought a house with an old C4 system in it and was shocked at the cost to get it up and running....
gbaby likes this.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
thebland is online now  
post #28 of 50 Old 05-28-2019, 03:42 PM
Advanced Member
 
David Haddad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defcon View Post
However I believe there must be a middle ground between dealer installed and configured $$$$ systems and something the user can do herself. e.g. there used to be home automation kits (x500, Zigby etc, forgot the names).
Charmed Quark is a good option for DIY that want a powerful automation controller.
David Haddad is offline  
post #29 of 50 Old 05-28-2019, 03:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Mntneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Martinsburg, WV
Posts: 2,905
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
These analogies aren't even remotely relevant. Plumbing and AC are install it and forget it systems. You never need to worry about them again until they break.

Home automation by its very nature is something that you are going to constantly tweak and add to (not to mention its going to break down a lot more than other systems in your house too). Having to constantly go thru a dealer for this is not something most people are going to want.

Yes there are people who will gladly pay to have someone else do everything for them. Just like there are people who pay to have someone "install" a new TV for them. These people aren't very likely to be posting on online forums though.
Really? I've got clients that haven't touched their systems for years. They just simply enjoy them.

A good HA system... with a good installer... is "install it and forget it". Yes, you may want to add a new component from time to time (most average users really don't), just as you may want to replace a light switch or install a new thermostat. In those cases, it's always best to have professionals do that work for you.

And in terms of Box Stores and the products they sell, I saw a statistic about a year ago that 3/4 of those that purchase a device from a store like Lowes, Best Buy, etc. find themselves spending more than an hour either on the phone with tech support, or online searching for solutions, and another percentage end up returning the devices all together.

I'm not saying the CI route is the way to go for all consumers, but for many, it's no different than any other residential trade that work on your house.
Mntneer is offline  
post #30 of 50 Old 05-28-2019, 05:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cmcjo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 1,656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 15
On a side note, the new Control4 3.0 is really nice. Drag and drop items where you want. I know its nothing new to the DIY crowd, but its new for Control4. I did this in about 5 minutes on the TP. And my c4 system has been rock solid for 2 years. A solid and approved network is a must. And a dealer that knows what he is doing. I have seen several hack jobs and I have no idea how they even passed the 1 week class.

Composer for End users does everything you would need to do except add devices. There are several really good online programmers that can add the device in minutes for very little cost and sometimes no cost.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4218-10.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	229.2 KB
ID:	2572898  

JOE
cmcjo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Home Automation

Tags
Control4 , home automation

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off