sharp quattron is it marketing gimmick? I think so - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 199 Old 04-04-2010, 08:07 AM
 
googlegod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,386
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by davegow View Post

If this is a response to my post, I didn't say "most people on this forum". I said "video enthusiasts who are the backbone of this forum". I don't have hard data but I'd bet that most such enthusiasts have no interest in keeping a set 10 years or more.

I would think "video enthusiasts" with cash to burn will be updating every year or sooner, as tech is changing like the seasons.
googlegod is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 199 Old 04-05-2010, 11:39 AM
Member
 
lbjack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Adding a color expands the gamut. Also, their "UV²A" technology uses UV-sensitive LCD material to, as Bill Machrone says, "precisely [align] the crystals so they turn completely and in unison...They pass as much as 20 percent more light when they're on and are more completely black when they're off, and they switch faster from clear to dark and back again." This reduces blooming and bolsters the LED edge dimming, so you get the thin screen, but with the uniformity of local dimming.

Finally, Sharp does not build a new plant simply to foster a gimmick.

Of course, even if all this is legit, like 3D it's meaningless without adequate content. You can't display gamut that's not in the source. Whether broadcast and video have the gamut that will benefit from Sharp's extra sub-pixel remains to be seen.

Sony 55W905A, Dahquist DQ10 (x4), BW sub, McIntosh MC-2150/2200, OPPO BDP-105D
lbjack is online now  
post #33 of 199 Old 04-05-2010, 11:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
serialmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,730
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbjack View Post

Adding a color expands the gamut. Also, their "UV²A" technology uses UV-sensitive LCD material to, as Bill Machrone says, "precisely [align] the crystals so they turn completely and in unison...They pass as much as 20 percent more light when they're on and are more completely black when they're off, and they switch faster from clear to dark and back again." This reduces blooming and bolsters the LED edge dimming, so you get the thin screen, but with the uniformity of local dimming.

Finally, Sharp does not build a new plant simply to foster a gimmick.

Of course, even if all this is legit, like 3D it's meaningless without adequate content. You can't display gamut that's not in the source. Whether broadcast and video have the gamut that will benefit from Sharp's extra sub-pixel remains to be seen.

First off, I am by no means not saying that its not a gimmick. With that said....

Dithering of dots is how your eyes perceive colors that are not red green and blue. Its basically fooling your eyes and brain from a distance. Adding yellow will not come from the source but from the set itself tellign the set when to use yellow pixel on and off.

How this works is completley dependant on sharps software and programming. No one here until seeing it can say how it looks or how its going to look. IMO and its just an opinion I expect your going to see a pretty big difference in more accurate skin tones.
serialmike is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 199 Old 04-05-2010, 12:10 PM
Advanced Member
 
BobearQSI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 714
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbjack View Post

You can't display gamut that's not in the source.

You also can't display sharpness that's not in the source - yet TVs have an artificial sharpness control you can use.

IMO, this TV is about boosting the gamut beyond the source giving you a vivid color mode where colors are enhanced beyond anything other TVs can display when they are set to their 'vivid' mode.
BobearQSI is offline  
post #35 of 199 Old 04-05-2010, 01:03 PM
Member
 
lbjack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post

I find it hard to believe most people in this forum upgrade once every 4 yr.

I've had my SD Toshiba 65" RPTV for 10 years. Got the ISF calibration and tweak the convergence now and then, and it still gives my year-old Regza HD a run for the money. (Built-in line doubling helps.)

The Quattron 60" is a candidate to replace it, mainly for space saving and, hey, it may really be spectacular! If so, then the Toshiba goes to the church down the street, and I can feel good about myself. Then I move my Regza up to the bedroom and give away my 32" Mitsu tube that's over 20 years-old and still going strong.

By the way, from my experience the Toshibas are very underrated. Good pricing, beautiful picture and reliable.

Sony 55W905A, Dahquist DQ10 (x4), BW sub, McIntosh MC-2150/2200, OPPO BDP-105D
lbjack is online now  
post #36 of 199 Old 04-05-2010, 01:59 PM
Member
 
lbjack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Serialmike and Bobear, good points.

If the information for yellow is there, then the Quattron can apply it to a dedicated yellow subpixel instead of "dithering" with red-green. As in print, the less dithering the better.

As for sharpness, that's really contrast, which of course can be increased to give the appearance of greater resolution. Just as the line doubler on my old Toshiba gives the picture a subjective HD look. I guess "subjective" is the key word. If the Quattron makes the picture look better, then how it does it isn't so important.

Even "look better" leaves me skeptical. Do you think Best Buy, Costco, etc. give all the screens a level playing field, or do they tweak the ones they want to move?

I guess that leaves the professional reviewers. And though I don't doubt their honesty, I've often found what they say and what I see when I get it home are quite different. Of course, this may be because any toy I pay multi-large for, like a trophy wife, as long as it puts out, I'm just gonna love.

Sony 55W905A, Dahquist DQ10 (x4), BW sub, McIntosh MC-2150/2200, OPPO BDP-105D
lbjack is online now  
post #37 of 199 Old 04-11-2010, 11:13 AM
Member
 
masamunecyrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I found this Russian link, which appears to be reviewing the color accuracy of the new Quattron TVs... Maybe some of you will be interested.

http://translate.google.com/translat...&sl=auto&tl=en

masamunecyrus is offline  
post #38 of 199 Old 04-11-2010, 11:18 AM
Senior Member
 
eclipsegt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Liked: 120
At my local Sears they have the new sharp LED next to the 2009 samsung 6000. The sharp had better whites but the blacks looked like a regular non led LCD, and it looked like adding yellow over exagerated every color. Skin tones and greens looked the worse.
eclipsegt is offline  
post #39 of 199 Old 04-25-2010, 11:51 AM
Newbie
 
bagman666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Found this review, they see the difference...

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/aud...-683722/review
bagman666 is offline  
post #40 of 199 Old 04-25-2010, 12:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
irkuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: cyberspace
Posts: 3,909
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 362 Post(s)
Liked: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by bagman666 View Post

Found this review, they see the difference...

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/aud...-683722/review

Here they also see the difference but in the negative sense. Yellow and green colors are too intense and vivid. In effect color reproduction is inaccurate and this can not be corrected by settings.

BTW, both reviews are contradictory at some points, e.g. black levels, flat panels review seem to be more professional.
irkuck is offline  
post #41 of 199 Old 05-02-2010, 04:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Raistlin_HT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Buffalo, NY area
Posts: 2,539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by KakimotoRift View Post

Black performance and Contrast Ratio is more important as a Image Quality factor than a hyped quad subpixels.

Actually, the yellow pixel helps improve black level and contrast ratio

http://www.livescience.com/technolog...on-100221.html
Raistlin_HT is offline  
post #42 of 199 Old 05-02-2010, 04:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Faceless Rebel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post

Actually, the yellow pixel helps improve black level and contrast ratio

http://www.livescience.com/technolog...on-100221.html

Ha, I just saw your post in NeoGAF. Somebody already took care of the response there.
Faceless Rebel is offline  
post #43 of 199 Old 05-02-2010, 04:56 PM
Senior Member
 
jjahshik32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 254
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post

Actually, the yellow pixel helps improve black level and contrast ratio

http://www.livescience.com/technolog...on-100221.html

I read one review (sorry forgot which one it was but it was a link from the SHARP CES Thread), and the reviewer concluded that the quattrons had a not so good black level.

Well, when I went to check out the Sharp this morning, compared to the other LED backlit hdtvs, I found the le810 to have a very good and deep black level.

For some reason when the BEST BUY logo was playing on the SHARP 810, the black level of the word BEST BUY did seem a bit grey compared to the samsung led (not sure which model it was) on top. But when the black letters of BEST BUY was inside the yellow color instead of all white, it looked much deeper in black. But comparing the black levels to the other hdtvs, I thought the sharp looked very dark in the black levels department.

Maybe I'm just still used to my bravia xbr6?

I'm trying to desperately decide if I want to upgrade from my xbr6 but after tweaking the colors on the bravia, I can make the colors look the same as the Sharp that I saw this morning (turning on wide gamut + live colors).

Now thinking about it, I'm starting to lean on just keeping my Bravia as I am very satisfied with it thus far (also its only a year old) but my biggest reason was to upgrade to a bigger size (40" right now but wanting a 46").

Right now I'm in the middle of a decision of (selling my 40" sony bravia xbr6 and getting the sharp le810 46") OR keeping my sony bravia and buying a DLP projector.
jjahshik32 is offline  
post #44 of 199 Old 05-02-2010, 05:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Raistlin_HT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Buffalo, NY area
Posts: 2,539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 30
The UV2A panels should have the best black-level and contrast ratios ... at the native panel level.

If another TV is adding stuff like local-dimming, etc, that could certainly give it the advantage ... but that isn't and apples to apples comparison.

If someone was to take a UV2A and also add in the other stuff, it should produce the better image.
Raistlin_HT is offline  
post #45 of 199 Old 05-03-2010, 03:59 PM
Member
 
wires1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post

I find it hard to believe most people in this forum upgrade once every 4 yr.

I've yet to EXCEED 4 years with new TV technology. My Toshiba HD RPTV started to die after 4 years, my 3.5 year Sony HD SXRD started to fail. Mind you LCD panels have a better track record thanks to the PC market, but really, in 4 years something has changed to make you want to change (should you have the cash).
wires1 is offline  
post #46 of 199 Old 05-03-2010, 06:33 PM
Senior Member
 
jjahshik32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 254
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The Quattron sure doesnt seem like a gimmick to me as when I went to check it out at the store and compared the Quattron to the rest of the 30 hdtvs that were next to it, the Quattron's colors were much more vivid than the rest.

I know we have to keep in mind that all the hdtvs have not been properly calibrated, but then again we also have to keep in mind that the Quattron hasnt been calibrated either and it looks remarkably good.

I'm so torn on what to do. I want to upgrade to a 46" but sometimes I feel that I'm quite happy with my 40" Bravia's calibration/PQ.

I guess my fear is that the Quattron wont look as good as my calibrated Bravia when I bring it home. I know there is a slim chance that I wont like the Quattron as I love it at the store but things at home is always much different than you thought it would be.
jjahshik32 is offline  
post #47 of 199 Old 05-17-2010, 02:21 PM
Newbie
 
gfranc79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
As a current Sharp Aquos owner from a previous model, I am discouraged to buy another Sharp TV again. I hate the fact that my TV model has banding issues which Sharp still sold as a product. Why should I trust their Quattron technology? I rather wait until an extensive review has been done. I don't want to be a test subject.
gfranc79 is offline  
post #48 of 199 Old 05-18-2010, 02:51 PM
Member
 
dp3dp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Just skimming over this thread what I find most interesting is very few have done in-home testing of this set. As most of you should know what you see in the store is not what you get in the home. I respect all of your decisions to say this is a gimmick, however I have the right (which I proudly defend BTW) to say I disagree. I also have the right to say 3D is a gimmick and a fad. I have found that color reproduction is flawless, especially in the area of dark yellow, gold, brown, and blue/green. What you need to do is take one home and test it, if you do not agree then post it. But, you will find all colors to be more vibrant, more true and just a jaw dropping experience.
dp3dp is offline  
post #49 of 199 Old 05-18-2010, 03:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
MechanicalMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 989
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by dp3dp View Post

Just skimming over this thread what I find most interesting is very few have done in-home testing of this set. As most of you should know what you see in the store is not what you get in the home. I respect all of your decisions to say this is a gimmick, however I have the right (which I proudly defend BTW) to say I disagree.

I haven't had a chance to see one of these calibrated, and I hear what you're saying. But here are my issues:

1. It's hard not to think that Quattron and "you have to see it to see it" are gimmicks when the colors are clearly oversaturated and the color temp far too cool with the default settings. Sharp is obviously not the first company to do this, but they seem to have taken it to even more of an extreme than other manufacturers. If Quattron isn't a gimmick, then why is color (saturation) turned up so high on these TVs?

2. Wider color gamut seems to lead to a less accurate image, and I really don't understand how the yellow subpixel can or does improve image quality.
MechanicalMan is online now  
post #50 of 199 Old 05-19-2010, 02:01 PM
Member
 
cccsdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post

I find it hard to believe most people in this forum upgrade once every 4 yr.


I find it hard to believe that some rues on this site know more than the folks at Sharp/Sony/ Samsung/Mitusbishi etc.

And as far as the comment about people standing next to their 1200.00 40" set and thinking the picture looks good, who the heck are you to make a blanket statement like that when deailng with something that is subjective.

You love steak, I hate it, so does steak taste good or not. I think my 46" Sammy looks great, you think it sucks, so should I just throw it away since it wil never meet YOUR expectations. Get a life, it's TV for pete sake.
cccsdad is offline  
post #51 of 199 Old 05-19-2010, 02:04 PM
Member
 
cccsdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by dp3dp View Post

Just skimming over this thread what I find most interesting is very few have done in-home testing of this set. As most of you should know what you see in the store is not what you get in the home. I respect all of your decisions to say this is a gimmick, however I have the right (which I proudly defend BTW) to say I disagree. I also have the right to say 3D is a gimmick and a fad. I have found that color reproduction is flawless, especially in the area of dark yellow, gold, brown, and blue/green. What you need to do is take one home and test it, if you do not agree then post it. But, you will find all colors to be more vibrant, more true and just a jaw dropping experience.



wait, actually see for ourselves? that would be like asking obama to actually "read" a bill before he signs it.
cccsdad is offline  
post #52 of 199 Old 05-19-2010, 02:06 PM
Senior Member
 
SupraLB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: FL
Posts: 283
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 11
In my own non-scientific eye testing, I can see a big difference in the colors on the new Sharp sets. More vivid, more pop, more richness.

Not sure if they are worth more over a cheaper LCD, but I certainly see their improved color quality over other sets.
SupraLB is offline  
post #53 of 199 Old 05-19-2010, 06:52 PM
Advanced Member
 
MonkeyMafia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: new york, NY USA
Posts: 772
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Of course it's a gimmick- come on guys!!!!

(from a 1972 ad posted in the 3D forum):



Need any more proof? NOT!!!!
MonkeyMafia is offline  
post #54 of 199 Old 05-19-2010, 07:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Andrew67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Liked: 132
This article explains the gimmick...

Maybe Sharp Should've Consulted Mr. Spock Instead
Andrew67 is offline  
post #55 of 199 Old 05-19-2010, 08:11 PM
Member
 
ns88's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i found one of the threads at dvinfo.net to be interesting

Quote:


Disclaimer: I work here: Sharp Laboratories of America

When I first saw our yellow pixels (Quattron) TVs at CES in January, I wasn't so sure about it. The rushed prototypes on the show floor showed aliasing, and they were adjusted to be overly bright and saturated. More recently, I got to evaluate some of the first production models - and the images look great. There's no hint of aliasing - in fact, the edges and contours are extremely smooth. And the color adjustments out of the box were ideal: bright and saturated, without being too aggressive.

One place where I would differ with the reviewer was about "Standard Mode". (They thought it was a bit dark and dull.) I tried a photo that I shot myself on the TV from a USB stick. I thought that Standard looked the most natural and had the most depth.

FWIW, here is the photo:
Post Your Photos (and lens/processing info)

There are a few things to note about the technology. You can't just add a 4th subpixel to any old display without some sacrifice. That extra subpixel steals some real estate from R, G & B. If the dots have a lot of metal (slits and ribs) blocking the light, shrinking the dot size will really lower the efficiency.

Sharp solves that with the X-Gen panel that uses UV to control the liquid crystal material. That means we don't need metal ribs to spread an electromagnetic charge. With the larger aperture dots, we can add the fourth subpixel and keep the brightness high. In turn, we can turn down the backlight (and the power), because we can pass light so efficiently. And, of course, yellow was chosen since it has the highest luminance of any color. We gain both more color control and higher brightness. (A white subpixel would give even more brightness, but would tend to desaturate bright images.)

The other advantage is that while most 1080p TVs have about six million subpixels, the Quattrons have eight million. With proper phase alignments on every sub-pixel, that effectively gives 33% more resolution than we get with an RGB TV.

Some people have claimed that the 4th color is a scam, since broadcasters only deliver RGB. But keep in mind that high-end printers have twelve or more inks in order to reproduce colors that cannot be achieved with only three color pigments. It's the same story with the yellow sub-pixel. Also, with the yellow pixel placed beyond the gamut triangle formed by RGB, we can push the green color further up and toward cyan. We can now create green with a combination of blue and yellow or with our new, shifted green color. So, not only do we have more control over yellows and golds, but we have more control over cyans and greens as well.

Comparing the Quattron to our own models, we get sharper edges, a wider, more vibrant yet natural range of colors, and more subtlety on smooth color gradients. Where previous models showed some contour lines, the new model shows smooth gradations. With more control between yellow and red, face tones are natural looking as well. Faces don't seem to teeter between too red or too green so easily.

Anyway, there's more to the technology than just an additional color. Many people are used to working in RGB and dismiss the idea without considering the difference between signals and physical pigments.

The bottom line is that the implementation looks great to my eyes - against both our older models and against the competition. The next time you're in an electronics store, take a look and see what you think.

Nuff said. Disclaimer mode off...
__________________
Jon Fairhurst
DIRKSNOWGLOBE.COM

Quote:


Promoting a fourth subpixel has been a real challenge. The quote: "snake oil for the poorly educated" sums up the reaction of many people. The difficulty that we've had is with the moderately educated. I know a number of imaging experts with doctorates here at the lab who have to noodle it out and are only convinced after seeing the diagrams, the math, and the implementation. The cool thing is that once they get it, they start to think about ways to push the concept to the next level. People who understand how RGB is used, but don't have doctorates in color theory are a tougher sell!

The best way to explain it is to show the CIE Color System chart.

The one below shows the limits of color reproduction with three additive pigments. Though you can see the whole range of colors, the reproduction system is only capable of rendering a gamut within the triangle formed by the three points.

If you shift the green pigment to the right, you can capture more yellow, but it comes at the expense of the cyans. Shift green to the left and you can reproduce more cyans, but at the expense of the yellows and golds. You could simply push the green pixel up, but we are limited by the physical pigments that are available.

With Quattron TVs, we add the yellow pixel to the right of the triangle. We then shift the green pixel to the left and slightly toward the curved peak on the CIE chart. The result is a larger gamut as defined by the four points.

And, yes, we lose a small corner right at the current green dot. But we gain a much larger amount in the cyans and yellows. Overall, we can reproduce a wider range of green tones. In the real world, green isn't a single 100% saturated green point, but a whole range of tones that might lean slightly toward yellow or cyan. The gain outweighs the slight loss many times over with real pictures.

We could have added a cyan pixel and shifted the green toward the yellow. That would have also extended the gamut, but we would have lost efficiency. And with an additional white pixel (many have barked up this tree), you gain efficiency, but lose saturation. Because yellow is the brightest color, it allows the best balance between brightness and gamut.

The secret sauce, of course, is in how the RGB signals are mapped to an RGBY (with green pushed toward cyan) space. And that's where the technical tour ends. It's also where one needs to look at the results and judge it with their own eyes.

To summarize the technology:
* It extends the available gamut.
* It uses UV for a wide aperture, giving high efficiency so we can add yellow and maintain brightness.
* Yellow is used because it is both bright and colorful.
* By adding yellow we can shift green, providing more gamut in the cyan area as well.
* It provides 33% more subpixels, which allow more detail to be reproduced.
* It provides more available gradations, since the color space is more finely defined - especially in the shorter path between yellow and red; yellow and green.

Also, note that extended gamut has been a hot topic for some time in the display community. xvYCC was developed specifically for displays with extended gamut: xvYCC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia And xvYCC is part of the HDMI spec. HDMI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But the theory only counts if the implementation is good. That's why the George Takei ad offers the call to action: "You have to see it to see it."
Attached Images

__________________
Jon Fairhurst
DIRKSNOWGLOBE.COM

ns88 is offline  
post #56 of 199 Old 05-20-2010, 01:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Extreme_Boky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Excellent post ns88, thanks

Boky
Extreme_Boky is offline  
post #57 of 199 Old 05-20-2010, 02:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Andrew67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Liked: 132
From Sharp...


Quote:


The best way to explain it is to show the CIE Color System chart.

From Maximum PC....

Quote:


Sharp shows its Quattron color gamut in some promotional material by using an old (x,y) distorted CIE Diagram from the year 1931 because it makes its extended color gamut look much larger than it really is. Our figure is the (u’v’) 1976 Uniform CIE Diagram and shows the color gamut accurately.

Still a gimmick.
Andrew67 is offline  
post #58 of 199 Old 05-20-2010, 01:50 PM
Member
 
cccsdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew67 View Post

From Sharp...




From Maximum PC....



Still a gimmick.

Just what I was talking about, this guy "andrew" obviously knows way more than the dummies at sharp"
cccsdad is offline  
post #59 of 199 Old 05-20-2010, 02:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
movieguy163201's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The quote below pretty much sums it up, lets not forget that other companies (Sony among others) have also invested in this technology, but Sharp was just the first to implement it in LCD. I wonder if there will be this much controversy when other companies come out with their extended gamut solutions

Also remember, how current calibration systems are set up now (using the triangle diagram RGB) to achieve 6500k, I would assume there will be inconsistencies and problems to get this technology completely fine tuned using todays color meters/software, since they are typically looking for the triangle area gamut, while this fourth pixel delivers a trapezoid area (RGBY)

But I am not a professional calibrator, so I could be incorrect, but I think my reasoning behind the above statement makes sense

Quote:


The difficulty that we've had is with the moderately educated. I know a number of imaging experts with doctorates here at the lab who have to noodle it out and are only convinced after seeing the diagrams, the math, and the implementation. People who understand how RGB is used, but don't have doctorates in color theory are a tougher sell


Movieguy
movieguy163201 is offline  
post #60 of 199 Old 05-20-2010, 02:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
spyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

The color spectrum is far more than RGB just study the print and publishing industry where it's capability is expanded through 4-6 color print or open your eyes and view a color wheel and it's vast shades. This isn't the first time it's been used with TV and it's not the end as Sharp has hinted at expanding it even further in the future. Mits RPTV's went past RGB.

It takes the processing from Billions to Trillions and the processing expands that not just the color source. Now, I agree we must await the results for some professional ISF calibration testing and real feedback to determine if it's the real deal or Fluff. The concept is widely used successfully in the print and publishing industry and so who's to say it won't work with HDTV. I have a color laser printer outside my office that is Magenta, Cyan, Yellow, and Kuro "CMYK" and many print shops and higher end Inkjets are doing 6 color blends RGB is one shade of each otherwise how can processing expand to the Billions/Trillions of variations?

The color spectrum results should be excellent based upon past tests with the XS1 Sharp which easily exceeded 100%. I'll reserve judgement until witnessing the real deal since I've seen it work successfully in print and publishing and other technical mediums. If we had no room for improvement of RGB then how could one explain the striking eye popping Samsungs which dominate - they all start with RGB but it's how it's processed and packaged that counts - perfect example was a mid range Samsung C6500 next to an LG LH40 at BB and the Samsung destroyed the LG in every respect yet they both use RGB.

Also, this isn't the first time Sharp has done something like this --- my 57" and 65" high end Sharps debuted with a five wave color filter to improve RED's and Green's and I can attest that the first thing I noticed when upgrading to this model were how outstanding the REDS were and without any PUSH whatsoever and the greens are great and natural but damn the REDS were a striking improvement with the Five Wave Color Filters implemented 3.5 yrs ago and which none of the current budget Sharps have as it's cost is higher. To me this is just another way to provide wider color spectrum without the higher costs and they need something to compete with Samsung eye popping panels. They succeeded with that Technology so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt with Quattron until I can do a personal audition to decide between the 68" Sharp or the 65" Samsung C8000.

Our visible Spectrum includes these even though Yellow and Purple is not in RGB without blending it's a blend that we see - Sharp is manipulating subpixels to add Yellow to the mix.

RGB Colors - When converted to HDTV and processing it doesn't mean your simply stuck on RGB as your colors - Sharp is doing a blend by manipulating the subpixels and we'll see if it truly works soon.

Color Gamut Chart

"my 57" and 65" Sharps debuted with a five wave color filter...."

WTF are you talking about, you don't have a 65 inch Sharp. You regret every day not spending another $5000 for the 65 inch version. There are probably remedial writing classes you could take.
spyboy is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off