Official Sony KDL-55W900A Owners Thread - Page 179 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5341 of 5920 Old 05-11-2015, 10:36 PM
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I'm not sure if I can bite the bullet if I don't hear something from them.
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post #5342 of 5920 Old 05-12-2015, 08:02 AM
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UFO and Node.......Maybe the sellar doesnt have anymore or is no longer in buisness. Either way though he or she could send you and email at least to let you know. I had my wife check the net last night to check to see if anyone has any W9's for sale, even Ebay, and found nothing! All she found on Ebay was parts for the W9 and that was it. No one is parting with their W9's that owns one.
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post #5343 of 5920 Old 05-12-2015, 06:15 PM
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So with the announcement of Ultra BluRay general specs I'm wondering how much can the W9 take advantage the improved PQ. I realize there's things we don't know yet about UBR but the W9 could handle the 10bit, HFR or even the P3 color gamut? I care more about that stuff more so than resolution. From the sound of it we won't get the benefit of HDR but what possibly can we gain from the new format?
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post #5344 of 5920 Old 05-12-2015, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
So with the announcement of Ultra BluRay general specs I'm wondering how much can the W9 take advantage the improved PQ. I realize there's things we don't know yet about UBR but the W9 could handle the 10bit, HFR or even the P3 color gamut? I care more about that stuff more so than resolution. From the sound of it we won't get the benefit of HDR but what possibly can we gain from the new format?
Considering the w900a uses at least a 10-bit panel (may be 12-bit), has the capabilities to show P3 (if you look at the spectrograph of the w900a, it is actually much better than that of the Samsung's SUHD line), and a native 240hz panel, sure it could easily take advantage of those new standards. However, it is unlikely a 2013 model will be getting any sort of update to take advantage of it.
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post #5345 of 5920 Old 05-13-2015, 09:10 AM
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this might have been posted at some point. Anyway, this is a great color gamut reference for the W9.
http://www.noteloop.com/kit/display/wide-gamut/sony-kdl-55w900a-triluminos-tv/[/url]

Heres an impressive fact
DCI-P3 colour space
W9 94.7%
Samsung UE65JS9500 (2015 flagship)
92%

Samsung went cadmium-free with their QD where Sony has in included.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ue65j...1502234012.htm
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post #5346 of 5920 Old 05-13-2015, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
So with the announcement of Ultra BluRay general specs I'm wondering how much can the W9 take advantage the improved PQ. I realize there's things we don't know yet about UBR but the W9 could handle the 10bit, HFR or even the P3 color gamut? I care more about that stuff more so than resolution. From the sound of it we won't get the benefit of HDR but what possibly can we gain from the new format?
helvetica as confirmed by Sony the W9 has a 10 bit panel or it was 12 I cant remember so I think it will handle the new specs just fine. In fact we may even get better PQ with our W9's then we already have if thats even possible. So what can we gain from the new format? Better PQ on top of the beautiful PQ that we already have in the W9. The only thing we probably wont get the benefit of is HDR sadly.
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post #5347 of 5920 Old 05-13-2015, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post
Considering the w900a uses at least a 10-bit panel (may be 12-bit), has the capabilities to show P3 (if you look at the spectrograph of the w900a, it is actually much better than that of the Samsung's SUHD line), and a native 240hz panel, sure it could easily take advantage of those new standards. However, it is unlikely a 2013 model will be getting any sort of update to take advantage of it.
I think the W9 will handle the new specs just fine except it wont be able to take advantage of HDR which is sad but it is what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
this might have been posted at some point. Anyway, this is a great color gamut reference for the W9.
http://www.noteloop.com/kit/display/wide-gamut/sony-kdl-55w900a-triluminos-tv/[/url]

Heres an impressive fact
DCI-P3 colour space
W9 94.7%
Samsung UE65JS9500 (2015 flagship)
92%

Samsung went cadmium-free with their QD where Sony has in included.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ue65j...1502234012.htm

That is impressive indeed!
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post #5348 of 5920 Old 05-13-2015, 11:55 AM
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The question isn't so much what gamut the W9 can produce, but rather which kinds of colorspace inputs the W9 can understand. You guys are aware that, once new sources in P3 or Rec.2020 colorspace are available, the W9 cannot interpret them like they should be interpreted? The W9 knows about Rec.601 and Rec.709 input, and the not-really-standardised x.v.color. It does not know what P3 input is, or what Rec.2020 input is.
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post #5349 of 5920 Old 05-13-2015, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Didee View Post
The question isn't so much what gamut the W9 can produce, but rather which kinds of colorspace inputs the W9 can understand. You guys are aware that, once new sources in P3 or Rec.2020 colorspace are available, the W9 cannot interpret them like they should be interpreted? The W9 knows about Rec.601 and Rec.709 input, and the not-really-standardised x.v.color. It does not know what P3 input is, or what Rec.2020 input is.
Exactly, and thats why I said it most likely won't be happening. If Sony put out a firmware update then of course its easily possible. But would they? I honestly don't think so. They would rather you just buy a new television. Its to bad because the w900a was literally built for WCG. Here are some graphs, the first one is just the w900a, the second on is the JS9500 put on top of the w900a. Look at the difference between the colors. The w900a performs better in all colors, with green and blue being much better. It was discovered in the QD calibration thread that the w900a can actually easily surpass P3, but only when looking at color slides in the service menu. It appears Sony has limited the gamut in standard operation mode.
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post #5350 of 5920 Old 05-13-2015, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post
Exactly, and thats why I said it most likely won't be happening. If Sony put out a firmware update then of course its easily possible. But would they? I honestly don't think so. They would rather you just buy a new television. Its to bad because the w900a was literally built for WCG. Here are some graphs, the first one is just the w900a, the second on is the JS9500 put on top of the w900a. Look at the difference between the colors. The w900a performs better in all colors, with green and blue being much better. It was discovered in the QD calibration thread that the w900a can actually easily surpass P3, but only when looking at color slides in the service menu. It appears Sony has limited the gamut in standard operation mode.

I have learned with Sony UFO to never say never with them. You say that Sony has limited the gamut in standard operation mode but does that apply to when the W9 is set to Cinema 1 mode as well? A simple firmware update could anwser all the questions but I am with you that its doubtful that Sony would do this because as you said they want us to buy a new set and for me thats not going to happen as long as my W9 is up and running. That all said I find it funny that the W9 beats out the Samsung in the color catagory. Not to bad for a tv thats still considered one of Sonys best.
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post #5351 of 5920 Old 05-15-2015, 07:06 PM
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W900A on its way! It was tough to find one. I made every effort I could to make sure this was in acceptable condition. Here's hoping to a good birthday present.
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post #5352 of 5920 Old 05-15-2015, 08:01 PM
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W900A on its way! It was tough to find one. I made every effort I could to make sure this was in acceptable condition. Here's hoping to a good birthday present.

Good to hear Node! You now will own one of the best tv's ever made by Sony in my book. If you have any questions when you get your tv just ask.
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post #5353 of 5920 Old 05-16-2015, 07:58 AM
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Congrats Node!
Hit me up if you want my games settings. I know it's poo-pooed to copy setting but I am very, very happy with mine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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LG65C9, XBOX ONE X, PS4PRO, APPLE 4K, SONY STRDN1070, Q Acoustics: 3010i & 3090Ci
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post #5354 of 5920 Old 05-17-2015, 10:05 PM
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Congrats Node!
Hit me up if you want my games settings. I know it's poo-pooed to copy setting but I am very, very happy with mine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can you repost them anyways? always nice to compare to others.

-Ty
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post #5355 of 5920 Old 05-20-2015, 07:47 PM
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Does anyone have their set hooked up to a Sony HTST7 soundbar? If so, could you please speak to the setup or a recommended setup? I have an Xbox one, TiVo, home theater PC, and Fire stick. Mainly use Xbox one, thinking of getting rid of the TiVo. Right now my soundbar connects via optical out of the set, my worry doing this with the HTST7 is that its 7.1 and I think the TV will only process 5.1?


Thank you!
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post #5356 of 5920 Old 05-21-2015, 05:52 PM
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Dead pixels. Everywhere. The entire center screen has smudges of black all over the place.

I knew it was too good to be true. Back to my XBR2 from 2007 I guess...

Is there something second best to the W900A?

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post #5357 of 5920 Old 05-21-2015, 07:56 PM
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Node, Im sorry to hear your W9 didn't work out!
If I was going to buy a TV today (for gaming & movies) most likely I would look at the new Samsung JS8500 SUHD TV.
If money isn't an issue go for Samsung's flagship, 65JS9500. Apparently is the fastest 4K panel so far.

"This makes Samsung’s achievement all the more outstanding – the 65JS9500 goes straight near the top of our input lag leaderboard as the most responsive 4K TV for gaming."

stellar review.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ue65j...1502234012.htm
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post #5358 of 5920 Old 05-22-2015, 03:21 PM
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Dead pixels. Everywhere. The entire center screen has smudges of black all over the place.

I knew it was too good to be true. Back to my XBR2 from 2007 I guess...

Is there something second best to the W900A?

Sorry Node to hear your W9 was a mess. Trust me its not common with the W900A. Who did you get it from again? I would give them a call and give them a peice of my mind if I were you. Whats second best to the W9? The new Samsung JS8500 SUHD TV. Thats the only tv I'd reccomend right now and if I didnt have my W9 thats the one I'd go for.
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post #5359 of 5920 Old 05-22-2015, 04:22 PM
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Sorry Node to hear your W9 was a mess. Trust me its not common with the W900A. Who did you get it from again? I would give them a call and give them a peice of my mind if I were you. Whats second best to the W9? The new Samsung JS8500 SUHD TV. Thats the only tv I'd reccomend right now and if I didnt have my W9 thats the one I'd go for.
Thanks for the reply. I'm only buying TVs from stores now. I just find it too risky to do it otherwise. The guy I bought it from is being stellar about it and being very good about the return. So I hope I can find that TV in stores.

I wonder how that curved screen works for viewing stuff on the computer.

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post #5360 of 5920 Old 05-22-2015, 04:27 PM
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Sorry Node to hear your W9 was a mess. Trust me its not common with the W900A. Who did you get it from again? I would give them a call and give them a peice of my mind if I were you. Whats second best to the W9? The new Samsung JS8500 SUHD TV. Thats the only tv I'd reccomend right now and if I didnt have my W9 thats the one I'd go for.
The entire JS series has low input lag in game mode, but if you read the dedicated threads you will see that game mode drastically reduces the picture quality. Thats how Samsung's game mode has worked for years. I would continue to hunt down a good w900a.
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post #5361 of 5920 Old 05-22-2015, 05:23 PM
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Anything is better than trying to hunt down W900As from individuals at this point.
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post #5362 of 5920 Old 05-24-2015, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
So with the announcement of Ultra BluRay general specs I'm wondering how much can the W9 take advantage the improved PQ. I realize there's things we don't know yet about UBR but the W9 could handle the 10bit, HFR or even the P3 color gamut? I care more about that stuff more so than resolution. From the sound of it we won't get the benefit of HDR but what possibly can we gain from the new format?
i have been wondering the same thing while reading of the new upcoming rec.2020 UHD format. of all the new specs, the higher resolution is probably the least interesting part imho. the exiting part is the increased colour space, higher bit rate (stating 12 to 16 mb/sec is the minimum needed for "good" video quality), progressive video (50p, 60p, 100p and 120p even) and HDR. (note: for these higher frame rate progressive signals however HDMI cant cope, and you would need display link or display port connectors, which many of the new UHD TV's dont have yet). our w900a's can also already cope with 1080p50 and 1080p60, yet there is still no indication of any material at that level of quality to become available (the latest Hobbit movie might have a 48p version on bluray i believe)

Netflix indicated already that when bandwith fluctuations cause a reduction in transfer speeds for their new limited release 4k web broadcasts, they will preferentially reduce resolution to HD and keep HDR because viewers will perceive less reduction in video quality (adding HDR to a UHD video stream only adds 2 or 3 mb/sec loading) . In comparison, SD bitrates for DTV are around 6 mb/sec, and HD DTV is between 9 and 13 mb/sec. SD DVD's are usually 6 or 8 mb/sec, and bluray can be from 15 to 35 m/sec (most are around 25 mb/sec). The few HD "mastered in 4k" bluray movies released by sony that use the enhanced x.v.Color color gamut (with expanded red and green range) are 35 to 38 mb/s. my point being: a good HD tv can already quite happily cope with the new "higher bit rate" they are lauding for UHD broadcasts.

an interesting point is that, if i understood it correctly, there was reference in some technical documents for UHD that the transition phase from HD to UHD (phase 1, which we are currently in till 2018 +/-) will initially allow some UHD material to use rec.709 color space. (see attachment)



the current 2015 UHD models also only use 85% of the new rec.2020 color space. as a comparison, quantum dot lcd's have a 50% larget color gamut then standard lcd's, and our w900a can already happily produce 73.9% of rec2020. Oled has an even larger color gamut then quantum dot backlit lcd's, and has no problems reaching a similar 85% of rec.2020, however it is struggling with the UHD resolution and experiences color bleed. Oled also still has problems reaching the 1000 nits spec level required for HDR brightness (LG has promised a firmware update for later this year to implement this on their just released first 4k oled tv). And the final buzz kill for Oled is the limited lifespan of one of its 3 primary colors ( ? blue ) which starts to fade after even a few years ( the brighter you run the display, the quicker it will fade). If they had issues with this in the last few years with HD oled models, they will need some clever magic to cope with the 1000 nits spec of UHD. All this is in context of HDR in the new rec.2020 being very much dependent on using the increased brightness levels, but even then for most new UHD video material 300 to 500 nits would be more then adequate.

Looking at the new 2015 range from the better main brands like sony, samsung, panasonic and LG, only a few select high end models use quantum dots, and from what i can make out they are all UHD. there are no more HD models with quantum dots (or even HD models using other increased color gamut enhancement methods aside from OLED). if we can find a way to reduce UHD to HD, our current sony w900a's can cope with most of the other specs

The bluray HD and HDTV DTV broadcast standards specifies 100 nits max brightness. The new HDR standard uses a much brighter 1000 nits, but that much hgher level of brightness would be like looking directly into the sun, something which is very unrealistic to expect a tv to need to produce and use in any significant way (and would potentially be dangerous to your eyesight) . its main implementation will be in providing better contrast levels (eg the range between dark and light is what is important in creating better shades of grey/black, and selectively brighten some parts of the screen). but 200 or 300 nits would be ample for that purpose in most situations, and iirc our sony w900 can already do 350 nits (with the quantum dot technology producing the increased brightness over what older lcd's with different back-lighting technologies can produce).

One very positive element of this new UHD standard is the use of HEVC compression (HD was h264/AVC) which provides 60% better compression, reducing bandwith needs(eg for broadcasts) and storage space. however a single UHD movie would still require 300 to 500 GB in space ! other then some UHD broadcasts of selected events , a widespread uptake of this technology for home users is highly unlikely for some yrs to come and it will remain a niche product. To keep this in context bluray never had a major success with the masses, and dvd is still the main format being used (and sold). similarly DVD-A and SACD never gained traction in the audio world, however good they were/are. worse even, where i live 2/3 of all DTV broadcasts are still only in SD, and only 1/3 are in HD ! in the real world most of us would be happy with HD at a decent bit rate (and better color space etc) rather then get some newer but further watered down low bitrate UHD. SD also scales ok to HD, but it is nonsense to try and scale it to UHD and expect a good result.

in short, i think it is still much to early to jump on the 4K wagon. these are great new specs to aim for, and we will all welcome the video improvements it promises, but it will take some time before they become relevant for most viewers. however as these improvements are gradually implemented, it will hopefully also improve the HD video experience at he same time. for those who dont have a good HD tv yet, or might want to update and get a larger/better screen size, i think it is a painful time to have to make a choice. only the high end models of the new UHD tv's from the main brands have in 2015 started to implement these new UHD specs, and prices range from 5000 to 8000 $ for a 65 or 70'. i havnt seen any 55' UHD models from the 4 main good brands that have all the high end specs (they lack the HDR or quantum dot elements usually).

by all indications our w900a's will happily last us a few more years while they standardize UHD specs further and they become more mainstream, or for any worthwhile amount of UHD material to become available. if only we could find a way to downconvert UHD to HD and keep most of the improved video quality elements, we would have the best of both worlds
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post #5363 of 5920 Old 05-24-2015, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Didee View Post
The question isn't so much what gamut the W9 can produce, but rather which kinds of colorspace inputs the W9 can understand. You guys are aware that, once new sources in P3 or Rec.2020 colorspace are available, the W9 cannot interpret them like they should be interpreted? The W9 knows about Rec.601 and Rec.709 input, and the not-really-standardised x.v.color. It does not know what P3 input is, or what Rec.2020 input is.
very true, and that is THE major hurdle

it is worth noting that sony themselves gave hope that this might be possible, or at least indicated at its release time in mid 2013 that the high specs of the w900a would be an advantage in dealing with (then) future higher color gamuts and newer improved video formats. from the C-net review of the kdl-w900a...... http://www.cnet.com/products/sony-kdl-55w900a/

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The standout, of course, is the "Triluminos" or "Color IQ" coating that enhances the picture's available colors by the application of a thin, multicolor-crystal film over the backlight. The company used the term a few years ago for its three-color LED system, but this is a different technology. The theory is that the TV is able to reproduce more of the colors that are in the source versus a standard LED, and Sony's representatives say it should be able to handle even wider color gamuts if -- big if -- they ever appear in the future. Interestingly, however, it still isn't wide enough to handle the color of Rec. 2020 .
note: the 2015 UHD models from sony/samsung etc can also only reproduce 85% of the new rec.2020 color space, so you could say they cant "handle" it either. with our w900a's being able to reproduce 73.9% of rec2020 i really dont think anybody will notice the difference

your point is correct however, i just dont think we are that far off !

my current hope is that something like the raspberry pi2 project will continue to evolve and provide better video hardware processing as it evolves to v3 and v4 etc. it would be a very inexpensive way to convert 4k to 2K from a stand alone low power device and could be flexible enough to add processing features to maintain an enhanced color space and improved video quality (bit rate, a "light" version of HDR maybe, 10 bit video, etc). going by the observations of a recent new pi2 user who is using it for video indicates current Pi and Pi2 users are are already starting to use them as PVR's and media players (but even Pi2 has significant limitations in that regard). still, pretty amazing for a 35$ device. HTPC users might even be able to do a version of this down conversion even earlier. it would need some clever tech person like Madchi from the MadVR project to code it, but it is not THAT far from the realm of possibility
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post #5364 of 5920 Old 05-24-2015, 11:37 PM
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looking at the very recent review of Samsung's S-UHD flagship new UE65- JS9500 TV (http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ue65j...1502234012.htm ) they state that it has a 91% coverage of DCI-P3 colour gamut:. This is a bit odd (or might be an error ?) because our sony kdl-w900a already provides 94.7% of DCI-P3 (http://www.noteloop.com/kit/display/...triluminos-tv/ )

one reason for this difference might be the use of quantum dot technology that is cadmium free in these new samsung (and sony ?) lcd tv's, which has a slightly lower color spectrum then the QD version made by a rival company (which was used in sony's first implementation of QD in 2013, including our w900a's). since 2014 sony has been making its own version of quantum dots, rather then outsourcing it from a 3e party, and i have seen no details yet of how their own new implementation differs from those 2 other companies

as Didee pointed out however, it is not so much the issue of what color gamut our sony w900a's can display, but what they can recognize as video signal being sent to it (Over The Air, or as an external input). still, it puts all the UHD hype and sales pitches for these new 2015 models into a clearer perspective

Last edited by Jorgens; 05-24-2015 at 11:47 PM.
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post #5365 of 5920 Old 05-25-2015, 12:08 AM
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If you look at the charts I posted, the JS series produces a smaller spectrum compared to the w900a. The original QD television is the w900a, and it is still king in this regard. On the downside, cadmium is extremely toxic.
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post #5366 of 5920 Old 05-25-2015, 12:47 AM
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If you look at the charts I posted, the JS series produces a smaller spectrum compared to the w900a. The original QD television is the w900a, and it is still king in this regard. On the downside, cadmium is extremely toxic.
hiya Ufo,

i am still learning the basics about calibration, so didnt want to comment on the spectral comparison until i know a bit more of the concepts involved.

in particular, since it is the backlight that determines the overall brightness with lcd screens, how is it possible the peak luminescence of that new JS 2015 samsung series is below a non-HDR QD panel from 2013 ? i suspect the peak hight therefore has some different meaning, yet since it represents a 6500K spectrum it would logically suggests it could be luminescence (and our w900a's are known to have a very vivid red, which would fit). the wideness of the RGB peaks has to do with purity of each color. so the cleaner the peaks the better (and the more precise each peak aligns with the individual R G B frequencies the better)

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post #5367 of 5920 Old 05-25-2015, 06:31 AM
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The cadmium is safely sealed inside the W9 correct? We're all not going to turn into the hulk in a few years, right?


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post #5368 of 5920 Old 05-25-2015, 10:39 AM
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The cadmium is safely sealed inside the W9 correct? We're all not going to turn into the hulk in a few years, right?


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First yes the cadmium is safely sealed inside the glass of the W9 and second I saw the Samsung JS series tv just the other day at my local BB and once again not impressed by 4K or the PQ of the tv. It could have been the way they had it set up I dont know but from what I saw I still would take my W9 over it anyday. Like 2014 sets I dont see any 2015 sets from any of the manufacturers replacing my W9. OLED and HDR look promising but for me its going to be a wait and see thing.
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post #5369 of 5920 Old 05-26-2015, 09:46 AM
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I wanted a 1080p set and was very discouraged by the offerings this year. Not ready to make the OLED plunge. So I emailed my local AV shop regarding the Sony 950B 55". He replied that he had none left BUT he did have a 55" 900A new in the box that was ordered for a customer but never picked up (who subsequently bought a 4K set). I IMMEDIATELY let him know I would take it! And the price was incredible.

Sooo my new 55" 900A is being delivered this Saturday. I cannot wait!!!!!! Soooo excited!!!!!!!
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I wanted a 1080p set and was very discouraged by the offerings this year. Not ready to make the OLED plunge. So I emailed my local AV shop regarding the Sony 950B 55". He replied that he had none left BUT he did have a 55" 900A new in the box that was ordered for a customer but never picked up (who subsequently bought a 4K set). I IMMEDIATELY let him know I would take it! And the price was incredible.

Sooo my new 55" 900A is being delivered this Saturday. I cannot wait!!!!!! Soooo excited!!!!!!!

Congrats. You just landed what is still considered to be one of the best HDTV's ever made by Sony and you got a new one at that.
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