Masking Your Edgelit LCD TV for Better Blacks - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 12:40 PM
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Thank you Mark for your write up on an issue that plagues a lot of LCD owners out there. Being a "tinkerer" and "what if" person myself I appreciate the out-of-the-box thinking... something for me to file away in the back of my mind.

Naysayers will be naysayers. If the solution doesn't work for you, for whatever reason, then don't do it. If your solution increases the chance of component failure, fire, earthquake, or mass extinction then I might understand the negativity.

Bias lighting worked for me but I realize it doesn't work for everyone as it's dependent on screen to wall distance, wall color, expense, etc, etc. It didn't get rid of the light bleed of course but it "hides" it from my eyes.
Yes, proper calibration helps too but "proper" calibration, however one defines it, is out of the realm for many owners because of expense or experience. Even then it may not eliminate the light bleed.

It's all about making do with what you already have or have access to. It would be far more productive to hear from folks who have tried your idea or who have a slightly different take on it. There's one undeniable fact. For 2.40:1 programming, your solution hides light bleed in a darkened room.
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post #62 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by krips View Post
Sorry mate, I don't buy stuff by simply looking at the reviews. My eyes are the best buddy to tell me what looks great and what's not.
I own a Sony FALD and know exactly what Katzmaier is talking about when he is saying that the bars were brightened. You probably do not notice it, or do not a lot of dark room 2.40:1 movie watching, to me such thing is distracting.
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post #63 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
The reality is that the films themselves (as presented in theaters) are 2.39:1 ratio. On Blu-ray boxes, it's listed as 2.40:1. Sure there are exceptions, but the vast majority of films are consistent. It might be easier to just call it 21:9.
At the risk of arguing with you on yet another topic... That's not really true. The number of vertical pixels devoted to black bars on the Blu-Rays of movies that are wider than 1.85:1 is not nearly as consistent as you're making it out to be. The image may also not be centered vertically within the 1080 pixels with an even amount of black bars top and bottom to better align with the 16x16 pixel macroblocks used in the video compression.
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post #64 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
At the risk of arguing with you on yet another topic... That's not really true. The number of vertical pixels devoted to black bars on the Blu-Rays of movies that are wider than 1.85:1 is not nearly as consistent as you're making it out to be. The image may also not be centered vertically within the 1080 pixels with an even amount of black bars top and bottom to better align with the 16x16 pixel macroblocks used in the video compression.
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post #65 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
You must have one heck of an allergy to yourself then.

Have you ever measured exactly how many pixels are used in the letterboxing of various >1.85:1 movies?
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post #66 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post
Velcro, dude.

Double layer the foam board so that the top one extends over the edge of the bottom one by the width of your bezel. Put a small amount of Velcro on the bottom portion of the top board where it is longer and on the bezel, thus eliminating your eyesore of a tape job.

Not only will this look cleaner, but it would allow you to conveniently put it up and remove it with ease.

Ditto. I was going to post this same doubled board suggestion with some variations. First of all, on the piece of board that spans the screen within the interior of the bezel, cut this so as to leave room for raising the matte(top)/lowering the matte(bottom) when viewing 1.85 content. Next, cut the board that attaches to the bezel so that it is at least twice the height of the board that contacts the screen. This way the board will cover the inner edge of the monitor when it is lowered(top)/raised(bottom) for 2.40 content. Then, place a small/short piece of black, soft-side Velcro on each end of the bezel as it is better at absorbing light. Lastly, place long vertical strips of hard-side Velcro on the edges of the board that attaches to the bezel as this will allow for positioning the matte with respect to the aspect.

iMagic, while I don't have a need for this application I could see it being helpful for those with the annoying gray-black letter-boxing issues you point out.
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post #67 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
So, do you just like making ignorant & foolish statements, or did the thought never occur to you that someone else just might know a little more than you do?

I happened to have data handy for a few different movies on Blu-Ray regarding the size of their letterboxing.

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post #68 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I think you should start a thread in the Display Calibration section and use that as the title, I'd be interested to see what kind of feedback you get.

I get myself in enough trouble on AVS without going to a new thread to pick a fight with anonymous posters with unknown qualifications and standards.

If your LCD was calibrated by a professional, your definition of a professional is much different than my definition.

Furthermore, I would never let some self proclaimed "professional" go into my TV's service menu. High risk, little reward to allow a person who is unfamiliar with a specific TV to dick with those settings.
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post #69 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
I get myself in enough trouble on AVS without going to a new thread to pick a fight with anonymous posters with unknown qualifications and standards.

If your LCD was calibrated by a professional, your definition of a professional is much different than my definition.

Furthermore, I would never let some self proclaimed "professional" go into my TV's service menu. High risk, little reward to allow a person who is unfamiliar with a specific TV to dick with those settings.
You should really stop digging the hole you're in deeper and deeper. Stick to things you know something about, like how Gorilla glass improves black levels. Tell us more about that!
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post #70 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 04:57 PM
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People have been doing this since the early days of ISF when the technologies were all CRT based. I did it with my CRT, my RPTV, my first plasma, and now my LCD and my front projection system.

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post #71 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 05:03 PM
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Never knew AVS had so many [email protected]@holes with their noses so far in the F#^$ing air. It was something he tried and wanted to show us. Informational. Something for us to just take a look at and maybe to use someday.
I like imagics' write ups. Sometimes you laugh, sometimes you cry. Maybe even a little head scratching. But I would never act the way some of you are acting. It is really childish.

If at first you don't succeed, pay someone to do it!
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post #72 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
People have been doing this since the early days of ISF when the technologies were all CRT based. I did it with my CRT, my RPTV, my first plasma, and now my LCD and my front projection system.

OK since you are the expert, what screen mode (scene select) do you calibrate the TV in? One of the Cinema modes? Sports mode? PC mode? Game mode? General mode?

Room brightness sensor on or off?

Dark room or bright room?

Black level control set to what position?

Enhanced contrast enhancer setting?

Color temperature, which one of five settings?

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post #73 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mrckonertr View Post
Never knew AVS had so many [email protected]@holes with their noses so far in the F#^$ing air. It was something he tried and wanted to show us. Informational. Something for us to just take a look at and maybe to use someday.
I like imagics' write ups. Sometimes you laugh, sometimes you cry. Maybe even a little head scratching. But I would never act the way some of you are acting. It is really childish.

But Imagic never watches off air TV, nor 4 X 3 movies because they are "old. Kind of hard to mask only for letterbox movies when 4 X 3 movies will have those bright "black" bars on the right and left hand side of the screen.

In addition, that masking would block my 3D sensor, my remote control sensor, my room brightness screen adjustment sensor, and my TV camera.

That masking also looks terrible, but maybe that is just me!
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post #74 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
You should really stop digging the hole you're in deeper and deeper. Stick to things you know something about, like how Gorilla glass improves black levels. Tell us more about that!

I just consider the source, and I will leave it at that!
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post #75 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mrckonertr View Post
Never knew AVS had so many [email protected]@holes with their noses so far in the F#^$ing air. It was something he tried and wanted to show us. Informational. Something for us to just take a look at and maybe to use someday.
I like imagics' write ups. Sometimes you laugh, sometimes you cry. Maybe even a little head scratching. But I would never act the way some of you are acting. It is really childish.
The problem is NOT with imagic. NOT his article either.

My problem is with the descriptor saying that "Mark Henniger found a cheap and easy solution..."

This trick have been used by Joel Silver, and before him, by Theo Kalomirakis since at least 20 years ago. Even the users of front projection use maskin for 4:3 area etc (depending on their screen aspect ratio).

It is STILL a good and effective idea, though.

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post #76 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
But Imagic never watches off air TV, nor 4 X 3 movies because they are "old. Kind of hard to mask only for letterbox movies when 4 X 3 movies will have those bright "black" bars on the right and left hand side of the screen.

In addition, that masking would block my 3D sensor, my remote control sensor, my room brightness screen adjustment sensor, and my TV camera.

That masking also looks terrible, but maybe that is just me!
If you are serious about your home theatre, you will NEVER use the room brightness screen adjustment sensor

So what if Imagic never watched 4:3 movies? You can't extrapolate that you can also make masking for 4:3 movies?

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post #77 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
OK since you are the expert, what screen mode do you calibrate the TV in? One of the Cinema modes? Sports mode? PC mode? Game mode? General mode?

Room brightness sensor on or off?

Dark room or bright room?

Black level control set to what position?
Seriously? You need to ask these questions?
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post #78 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
The problem is NOT with imagic. NOT his article either.

My problem is with the descriptor saying that "Mark Henniger found a cheap and easy solution..."

This trick have been used by Joel Silver, and before him, by Theo Kalomirakis since at least 20 years ago. Even the users of front projection use maskin for 4:3 area etc (depending on their screen aspect ratio).

It is STILL a good and effective idea, though.
Well, I was referring to the way I did it, not the act itself. From a semantic point of view, found is not the same as discover. Consider the sentence "I found the entrance to the subway station." That doesn't mean I'm the first person to find it. Obviously masking a screen is as old as movies themselves. I did it manually on a movie-by-movie basis when I worked at the Avon Cinema in Providence RI back in the late 1980's.
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post #79 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 05:44 PM
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Regardless, it is nice of you to revive this approach for newer HT-phile. We, old schoolers, are taking this for granted. :thumbup:
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
People have been doing this since the early days of ISF when the technologies were all CRT based. I did it with my CRT, my RPTV, my first plasma, and now my LCD and my front projection system.
Right on, David. I'm in good company.
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post #81 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 05:49 PM
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Yup! For my FP system, I have masking for 4:3 area and 16:9 area (I use CIH) and they can be slide left/right a bit so they can compensate for any AR slightly out of the generic 4:3 and 16:9 area. For my LCD TVs, I use velcro so I can do 4:3 and variants of 21:9 accurately depending on the movie.

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post #82 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Yup! For my FP system, I have masking for 4:3 area and 16:9 area (I use CIH) and they can be slide left/right a bit so they can compensate for any AR slightly out of the generic 4:3 and 16:9 area. For my LCD TVs, I use velcro so I can do 4:3 and variants of 21:9 accurately depending on the movie.
Cool. Do you do anything to eliminate the gap between the bezel and the screen itself, or does it not really matter?

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post #83 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Seriously? You need to ask these questions?

Typical non-answer.

Those automatic scene modes and options for each mode (AKA not global) will change the look of the picture that you made in your calibration routine, rendering your calibration pretty much useless.

White balance from the factory is set perfect even tough it is user adjustable. Same with gamma.
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I wrap my masking (for TV) with velvet so the gap does not really shown as any stray light will be absorbed by the velvet material. Also, the velvet wrapped masks make the masking board look more "elegant".

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post #85 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
Typical non-answer.

Those automatic scene modes and options for each mode (AKA not global) will change the look of the picture that you made in your calibration routine, rendering your calibration pretty much useless.

White balance from the factory is set perfect even tough it is user adjustable. Same with gamma.
Why do you use automatic anything is beyond me. This thread has nothing to do with calibration, kindly go to calibration area if you want to talk about calibration.

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Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post
Typical non-answer.

Those automatic scene modes and options for each mode (AKA not global) will change the look of the picture that you made in your calibration routine, rendering your calibration pretty much useless.

White balance from the factory is set perfect even tough it is user adjustable. Same with gamma.

False and inaccurate information is not appreciated.

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post #87 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
I wrap my masking (for TV) with velvet so the gap does not really shown as any stray light will be absorbed by the velvet material. Also, the velvet wrapped masks make the masking board look more "elegant".
That's great, if you can share a picture that would be cool... no pressure though.

I changed the intro line from "found" to "uses." I don't want to misrepresent it as my discovery, even implicitly, so thanks for the heads-up.
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post #88 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 06:04 PM
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As soon as I get back to Canada next week, I'll post close-up pics of my masking panels.

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post #89 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Why do you use automatic anything is beyond me. This thread has nothing to do with calibration, kindly go to calibration area if you want to talk about calibration.

You are correct, it is beyond you. Which is the reason why I will never let a "professional calibrator" touch my TV.

The concept that you guys prefer is calibrate your TV so that you require the use of a masking system to hide your calibration defects!
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post #90 of 313 Old 06-23-2014, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
False and inaccurate information is not appreciated.

As you know I was talking about my personal TV. You know, the one that does not require masking because it was calibrated properly at the factory!.
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