Vizio R Series Speculation and Release Date - Page 26 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #751 of 2656 Old 05-02-2015, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
I'm sorry, I'm not groking "a better context". Do you mean "a better reason for"?
Yes, exactly. 'Context' for a decision = reason to justify a decision.

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Perhaps, but do you really think that is what's holding them up?
Yes. It is either that the content is not ready for release or a collective decision by Vizio, Dolby, Time Warner and Vudu to await the availability of an HDR-capable (probably HDR-lite with more limited peak brightness) 2015 Vizio P-Series to be announced and widely available in typical Vizio channels like Costco and Best Buy by later this year (October).

All of this hoopla with only a single (relatively) expensive TV to watch it on will have a much more limited impact than having a full line-up of Dolby Vision-enabled TVs at more consumer-friendly prices to introduce Dolby Vision to the marketplace.

Samsung's UHD Alliance initiative has upped the stakes and Vizio and Dolby (with Warner Bros. support or urging) may have raised thier sights accordingly...
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post #752 of 2656 Old 05-02-2015, 02:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Yes. It is either that the content is not ready for release or a collective decision by Vizio, Dolby, Time Warner and Vudu to await the availability of an HDR-capable (probably HDR-lite with more limited peak brightness) 2015 Vizio P-Series to be announced and widely available in typical Vizio channels like Costco and Best Buy by later this year (October).

All of this hoopla with only a single (relatively) expensive TV to watch it on will have a much more limited impact than having a full line-up of Dolby Vision-enabled TVs at more consumer-friendly prices to introduce Dolby Vision to the marketplace.

Samsung's UHD Alliance initiative has upped the stakes and Vizio and Dolby (with Warner Bros. support or urging) may have raised thier sights accordingly...
And you dismiss that it's not simply because they can't figure out how to create enormous quality reliably for low dollars. Why?
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post #753 of 2656 Old 05-02-2015, 02:34 PM
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That is a odd looking TV
http://www.vizio.com/r-series
It won't win any beauty awards. It reminds me of some of the old RPTVs.
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post #754 of 2656 Old 05-02-2015, 02:36 PM
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I think they're being held up because the guys at FoxConn keep croaking during the 3 day hand-rubbing of the stand....
I think they're now given respirators.
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post #755 of 2656 Old 05-02-2015, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Yes, exactly. 'Context' for a decision = reason to justify a decision.



Yes. It is either that the content is not ready for release or a collective decision by Vizio, Dolby, Time Warner and Vudu to await the availability of an HDR-capable (probably HDR-lite with more limited peak brightness) 2015 Vizio P-Series to be announced and widely available in typical Vizio channels like Costco and Best Buy by later this year (October).

All of this hoopla with only a single (relatively) expensive TV to watch it on will have a much more limited impact than having a full line-up of Dolby Vision-enabled TVs at more consumer-friendly prices to introduce Dolby Vision to the marketplace.

Samsung's UHD Alliance initiative has upped the stakes and Vizio and Dolby (with Warner Bros. support or urging) may have raised thier sights accordingly...
I just don't buy this. I see no reason why, if these displays were truly ready, that Vizio couldn't release them today while promoting them as their 'best ever' displays, that will be fully compatible with the 'spectacular HDR content coming soon'.

Once that HDR material is released, Vizio simply instructs retailers to demo them with this new HDR material as they would have had they held up their release. If these units are as good as Vizio claims they are, they should be perfectly capable, in the interim, of showing their superiority with the same content that every other UHD display must contend with.

Of course if the HDR material, which will be seriously limited for quite some time, is simply a crutch to allow the Vizio R to show a 'better than most' picture only with that material, but an average at best picture with non-HDR material, than I could certainly see why the delay.

I'm simply pointing out another possibility in addition to Vizio's propaganda.

In the interim, if they're really that good, they are missing out on many potential sales between now and whenever (if ever) they are released.

I'm sorry fafrd, something simply doesn't smell right.
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post #756 of 2656 Old 05-02-2015, 03:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
I think they're being held up because the guys at FoxConn keep croaking during the 3 day hand-rubbing of the stand....
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I think they're now given respirators.
Seriously Ken, if 2 years ago someone had said that soon a TV manufacturer would put in their marketing that their stand was "hand rubbed for up to 3 days", no one would have believed it.
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post #757 of 2656 Old 05-02-2015, 03:27 PM
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How many people that buy Dolby vision enabled vizio's are actually going to use vudu streaming for HDR. I bet they get a free trial period but will eventually no one will want to keep paying for it. I guess they are hoping for an "avatar blueray release expierence" aka vudu to bump sales for them.
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post #758 of 2656 Old 05-02-2015, 03:51 PM
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Ok here is the thing. Just like they gave the p series a release date and price, they can do the same with the R series. Just say 4k for a late fall release date. That would be great. But instead they give us nothing. Does that make sense. The TV will be around 4k so it won't canabalize regular p series sales because people who buy the p series won't spend 4k on a TV. Every other TV maker will give you prices at least a month or so before release. Not Vizio. Why did they even have that April 14th event.? To announce the M series? Just stupid. They keep playing with the R series saying different dates knowing full well they have no intention of selling this TV . It's just a for show TV to say we can do it too but we won't sell it....Vizio you have lost a customer in me. This is my last post here. I'm buying the Panasonic CX850 and calling it a day.....
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post #759 of 2656 Old 05-02-2015, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by robert9674 View Post
Ok here is the thing. Just like they gave the p series a release date and price, they can do the same with the R series. Just say 4k for a late fall release date. That would be great. But instead they give us nothing. Does that make sense.
Yes, it makes sense to me. They are preparing to release TVs that are specialized to display Dolby Vision source, but aren't competitive with other HDR capable TVs (like Samsung's SUHD) for displaying conventional video source. Consequently, they must hold back on releasing the R-series sets until Dolby Vision source is readily available for buyers of R-series to watch on their R-series TVs. So that's what they're doing. That's what I said above, https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post33474074. Waiting for DV. What else would you have them do?

I don't understand the feelings of betrayal that people express about the delays. Vizio never made any secret about it. When asked why we haven't seen the R-series released yet, they said they delayed because there was not yet HDR source to view. They've also said they do not intend to try displaying non-HDR source as pseudo-HDR (as one can do on a Samsung) or even displaying HDR source in a form different from DV.

Vizio is being completely straight with us, it seems to me. Wait for DV.
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post #760 of 2656 Old 05-02-2015, 11:49 PM
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I just don't buy this. I see no reason why, if these displays were truly ready, that Vizio couldn't release them today while promoting them as their 'best ever' displays, that will be fully compatible with the 'spectacular HDR content coming soon'.

Once that HDR material is released, Vizio simply instructs retailers to demo them with this new HDR material as they would have had they held up their release. If these units are as good as Vizio claims they are, they should be perfectly capable, in the interim, of showing their superiority with the same content that every other UHD display must contend with.

Of course if the HDR material, which will be seriously limited for quite some time, is simply a crutch to allow the Vizio R to show a 'better than most' picture only with that material, but an average at best picture with non-HDR material, than I could certainly see why the delay.

I'm simply pointing out another possibility in addition to Vizio's propaganda.

In the interim, if they're really that good, they are missing out on many potential sales between now and whenever (if ever) they are released.

I'm sorry fafrd, something simply doesn't smell right.
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. By introducing the R65 without content, Vizio might sell a small increased number of R65 TVs, but Dolby would lose much of the impact of this launch to attempt to steer the HDR standard in their direction. Of course, the R65 may not yet be ready for prime-time, but my suspicion is that it is more likely that Dolby is calling the shots and has decided to make a bigger splash later this year than what had been teed-up for an R65 launch this spring.

I
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post #761 of 2656 Old 05-03-2015, 04:00 AM
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There was some talk of late delivery of Dolby HDR enabled chips during CES. I suspect this function may be either software based or hardware based, but going the software route would require more CPU power. I don't have any inside info on how Vizio plans to implement Dolby HDR support. Also the HDMI 2.0a spec was just announced today that adds HDR support to HDMI 2.0.

The final release of the Dolby Vision chip could not be available for the time being:

. HDR and HDR:
"Each company has their own opinion about HDR."
https://wikileaks.org/sony/docs/05/d..._Body.pptx.pdf

. BDA HDR:
Apparently the mandatory single-layer BDA HDR is from Panasonic/Sony:
+ Mandatory single-layer open solution: Panasonic/Sony
+ Two optional proprietary solutions: Philips HDR, dual-layer Dolby Vision
https://wikileaks.org/sony/docs/05/d...%E3%83%BCr.pdf
https://wikileaks.org/sony/docs/05/d...ns%20Final.pdf

. UHD Alliance HDR:
Apparently the single-layer open solution UHD Alliance’s HDR could be the Samsung’s HDR.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/netfli...on-2015-1?r=US
http://www.csimagazine.com/csi/Techn...ng-HDR-box.php


. Best scenario for Dolby Vision:

single-layer UHD Alliance’s HDR = mandatory single-layer BDA’s HDR = single-layer Dolby Vision

"The Dolby Vision system is the only HDR system providing the option of dual-layer or single-layer, approaches. Dolby uses a dual-layer system to provide HDR along with backward compatibility in distribution, Vlaicu explained. That approach uses some additional bandwidth. A single-layer approach is used when backward compatibility is not needed. For playback, the Dolby Vision chipset implementation in set-top boxes and in televisions understands either version of Dolby Vision, and delivers the appropriate version for the capabilities of the display."
http://hdguru.com/vizio-launches-m-s...-dolby-vision/
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post #762 of 2656 Old 05-03-2015, 06:47 AM
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Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. By introducing the R65 without content, Vizio might sell a small increased number of R65 TVs, but Dolby would lose much of the impact of this launch to attempt to steer the HDR standard in their direction. Of course, the R65 may not yet be ready for prime-time, but my suspicion is that it is more likely that Dolby is calling the shots and has decided to make a bigger splash later this year than what had been teed-up for an R65 launch this spring.
I love the continued excuses and speculation. Gold star for you after 18 months. Vizio should hire you to do marketing, forget being an engineer

If it is truly a "reference" display as it is referred to as being by you/Vizio/others then the picture should be reference with sources other than HDR. It is a 4k set with 384(?) local dimming zones right? Shouldn't that set it apart from the competition without HDR if it does the basics (dimming, upscaling, motion and picture/color) at a reference level? Wouldn't we all jump if did those well and cost less than its competition?

As for lack of content from Dolby, that didn't stop a/v companies from putting Atmos on their receivers in 2014. Nine movies in only about a year now. Saying that lack of HDR content is holding up its release until spring (isn't it almost summer?) is just another convenient excuse for a set that right now offers nothing special other than that apparently - not including the hand buffed stand and sound bar.

If it is a videophile value, HDR should be icing on the cake not the key feature keeping it from the market. Anyone who thinks HDR content from be Dolby will just magically appear in a couple of months and a flood of releases is coming after that isn't thinking clearly. See 4k content to-date.

Its going to be a long wait. Back to speculating because when you look at the facts - meh. Great buzz for Vizio though, and most of the people who buy their sets won't even care if this thing happens or not.
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post #763 of 2656 Old 05-03-2015, 07:48 AM
 
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Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. By introducing the R65 without content, Vizio might sell a small increased number of R65 TVs, but Dolby would lose much of the impact of this launch to attempt to steer the HDR standard in their direction.
Hold off on the egg until a chicken shows up? I still don't understand this. And Dolby losing impact?...You see this as a effort for Dolby to make a bigger splash later?

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Of course, the R65 may not yet be ready for prime-time,
This ^^^^ makes more sense to me. But it makes even more sense that they can't make it reliably in volume at sensible pricing at all. Anyone can make an overly expensive panel that does amazing things. Every demo panel ever made falls into this category.

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but my suspicion is that it is more likely that Dolby is calling the shots and has decided to make a bigger splash later this year than what had been teed-up for an R65 launch this spring.

I
...yi yi.

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post #764 of 2656 Old 05-03-2015, 08:01 AM
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Its going to be a long wait. Back to speculating because when you look at the facts - meh. Great buzz for Vizio though, and most of the people who buy their sets won't even care if this thing happens or not.
Vizio desperately wants high-end appeal. Pretending, if that is the case, to put the R series on the marktet, and even put it next to the 5 year high-end champ Pioneer Kuro in a demo would definitely help. If it turns out to be a scam it will backfire. William Wang is the guy who is in control and knows what is really going on here.
http://www.forbes.com/companies/vizio/

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post #765 of 2656 Old 05-03-2015, 08:06 AM
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My guess either everything is done on the vizio side and Dolby has yet to finish their end, or vizio isn't finished making a good product. I can't see vizio waiting for HDR content when all other companies are releasing HDR sets before it's widely available. Hell 4k is barely out and vizio has more lines of 4k tv's then anyone. The longer they wait the better competitors get the less impact this tv will have at all.
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post #766 of 2656 Old 05-03-2015, 08:10 AM
 
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The final release of the Dolby Vision chip could not be available for the time being:

. HDR and HDR:
"Each company has their own opinion about HDR."
https://wikileaks.org/sony/docs/05/d..._Body.pptx.pdf

. BDA HDR:
Apparently the mandatory single-layer BDA HDR is from Panasonic/Sony:
+ Mandatory single-layer open solution: Panasonic/Sony
+ Two optional proprietary solutions: Philips HDR, dual-layer Dolby Vision
https://wikileaks.org/sony/docs/05/d...%E3%83%BCr.pdf
https://wikileaks.org/sony/docs/05/d...ns%20Final.pdf
I'm still wading through these, but having quickly hopped from section to section in the above 636 pages, (talk about the origin of "tl;dr") I'm still not sure where the conclusion is. Documents such as the above are just insider minutes and PowerPoint presentations, which will always seem like disarray without broader context.

Still wading...
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post #767 of 2656 Old 05-03-2015, 08:19 AM
 
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Vizio desperately wants high-end appeal. Pretending, if that is the case, to put the R series on the marktet, and even put it next to the 5 year high-end champ Pioneer Kuro in a demo would definitely help. If it turns out to be a scam it will backfire. William Wang is the guy who is in control and knows what is really going on here.
http://www.forbes.com/companies/vizio/

Where did you get the above image (a Vizio side by side demo with Kuro)? I didn't find it in the Forbes link.
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post #768 of 2656 Old 05-03-2015, 08:36 AM
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Where did you get the above image (a Vizio side by side demo with Kuro)? I didn't find it in the Forbes link.
Post #1
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...-showcase.html
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post #769 of 2656 Old 05-03-2015, 08:46 AM
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What does this have to do with the Forbes blurb?
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post #770 of 2656 Old 05-03-2015, 09:15 AM
 
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Ok. I was confused because the way you set it up made it look like it was part of a point furthered by the Forbes article, when it wasn't connected to it. No biggie.
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post #771 of 2656 Old 05-03-2015, 09:59 AM
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Ok. I was confused because the way you set it up made it look like it was part of a point furthered by the Forbes article, when it wasn't connected to it. No biggie.
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What does this have to do with the Forbes blurb?
The Forbes link was William Wang related, the pick was R series next to kuro demo related.
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post #772 of 2656 Old 05-03-2015, 10:41 AM
 
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The Forbes link was William Wang related, the pick was R series next to kuro demo related.

Whatever, I understand now. I guess.

BTW, with that image, why are the L and R in different aspect ratios? Where they using a 21:9 Kuro of some kind?
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post #773 of 2656 Old 05-03-2015, 11:27 AM
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Whatever, I understand now. I guess.

BTW, with that image, why are the L and R in different aspect ratios? Where they using a 21:9 Kuro of some kind?
It probably is 65'' R vs. 60'' kuro. Plus possibly a dot by dot/full pixel mess up.

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post #774 of 2656 Old 05-03-2015, 11:30 AM
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Whatever, I understand now. I guess.

BTW, with that image, why are the L and R in different aspect ratios? Where they using a 21:9 Kuro of some kind?
Aspect ratio is the same check the edges of the frame, what you are noticing is the Vizio is a bigger screen at 65", I'm guessing the Kuro is 60"
(the bottom picture does appear to be slightly different frames, but I'm guessing that is due to one having greater input latency than the other)

EDIT: @8mile13 beat me
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post #775 of 2656 Old 05-04-2015, 04:14 PM
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"First half of 2015."

Went through this thread and didn't see any mention of an article I found on a tech blog called POC Network. AVS won't let me post link yet but they say the following:

"We reached out to Vizio but the only thing they could confirm was that the new series will be released sometime during the first half of 2015."

Never heard of this site before but they're the first that I know of that have narrowed down the release date. It's worth mentioning though that they incorrectly report that, "Both models will have an integrated 5.1 soundbar system featuring a wireless subwoofer and two rear speakers."

Two more months and we'll see if this is true. Samsung has already lowered their SUHD prices by $500, so Vizio better act soon.
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post #776 of 2656 Old 05-04-2015, 04:45 PM
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Went through this thread and didn't see any mention of an article I found on a tech blog called POC Network. AVS won't let me post link yet but they say the following:

"We reached out to Vizio but the only thing they could confirm was that the new series will be released sometime during the first half of 2015."

Never heard of this site before but they're the first that I know of that have narrowed down the release date. It's worth mentioning though that they incorrectly report that, "Both models will have an integrated 5.1 soundbar system featuring a wireless subwoofer and two rear speakers."

Two more months and we'll see if this is true. Samsung has already lowered their SUHD prices by $500, so Vizio better act soon.
FEBRUARI 21 2014 a Tech Blog called POC Network posted a article in which they stated that ''Vizio has announced that they plan to release a 120-inch ULTRA HD LED''
http://pocinc.net/blog/technology-ne...led-tv-coming/

MARCH 5 2015 the POC Network posted a article in which they stated that '' We reached out to Vizio but the only thing they could confirm was that the new series will be released sometime during the first half of 2015.''
http://pocinc.net/blog/technology-ne...-tv-this-year/

Both of these articles are nonsense. As stated by C|NET ''Vizio says the Reference series will arrive by the end of 2015'' (Which also might be nonsense).
http://www.cnet.com/products/vizio-rs120/
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post #777 of 2656 Old 05-04-2015, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bengrimm28 View Post
Went through this thread and didn't see any mention of an article I found on a tech blog called POC Network. AVS won't let me post link yet but they say the following:

"We reached out to Vizio but the only thing they could confirm was that the new series will be released sometime during the first half of 2015."

Never heard of this site before but they're the first that I know of that have narrowed down the release date. It's worth mentioning though that they incorrectly report that, "Both models will have an integrated 5.1 soundbar system featuring a wireless subwoofer and two rear speakers."

Two more months and we'll see if this is true. Samsung has already lowered their SUHD prices by $500, so Vizio better act soon.
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post #778 of 2656 Old 05-04-2015, 06:09 PM
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It looks like Vizio may be about to announce the 2015 version of the P-Series as well. The 50", 55", and 70" are all out of stock at the Vizio online store and many other online marketplaces, and the 60" and 65" are being discounted. It seems as if Vizio is clearing out stock for a new model to come out soon.

Since the 2015 M-Series adopted some of the P-Series capabilities, I wonder if the 2015 P-Series will gain some of what's been announced for the R-Series.
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post #779 of 2656 Old 05-04-2015, 07:48 PM
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I want 120 FALD zone HDR ready vizio p series.
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post #780 of 2656 Old 05-04-2015, 08:00 PM
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That built in soundbar is a total dealbreaker, just as those ridiculous speakers on the Sony 940c are. What are they thinking?! I don't like curved tv's but I'd rather the curve of the js9500 than some useless, bulky speakers that I have to stare at day in and day out.
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