Wanted: 60" Display 1080p <$1500, Turn off Soap Opera Effect/Auto Dimming - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 13 Old 08-28-2014, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Wanted: 60" Display 1080p <$1500, Turn off Soap Opera Effect/Auto Dimming

I'm on my third TV from Costco now trying random stuff and returning them every few weeks. I didn't have time to do real research and was hoping it would just work. Also, their return policy is so good, I figured it was worth experimenting since my cost was just the effort to drive it back to the store.

Now that I've tried a few sets, and I've done some googling, I realize that I HATE HATE HATE "soap opera effect" as well as "auto dimming".

I'm looking to drop under $1500 on a new set and I want this to be one I keep. I'll buy it from anywhere, doesn't need to be Costco since this time I'm doing the correct research. Don't care about 3D. Don't care about "smart". Don't care about anything but just a regular TV that has a ton of calibration settings so I can really narrow in on a good PQ.

I'm struggling and have spend a few hours already, with complaints about everything so I don't know what I want. I'm almost ready to give up and go without a TV for the rest of my life and just watch a few shows on my iPad when the mood strikes. It's really frustrating that EVERY TV seems to suck, depending on which reviews you read. Amazon reviews are no better. It seems that almost every model 2014 TV has no better than 3.5 or 4 star reviews.

I've decided that I'm willing to get a "smart" TV even though I don't want one, and I'm willing to put up with a "glossy" TV even though I prefer matte. But the two things that are absolute deal breakers are how awful the picture looks on soap opera mode and auto dimming. From my reading there's a bunch of TVs where you CANT TURN THAT OFF!! ABSURD! So please let me know what TV models I should be looking at. Or if I need to wait until next year and just go TV-less for another 6 months.
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post #2 of 13 Old 08-28-2014, 08:03 PM
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Have you looked at the Sony KDL-60W850B or KDL-60W830B? Not counting things like tax they barely get under your budget. Sony has a few motionflow settings to choose from, including off, which will affect the "soap opera effect". I believe the "Adv. Contrast Enhancer" is the variable backlight, and again there is an off setting. The screen is a semi-gloss/matte, so the reflections are blurrier than the glossy screens. A local theater and car stereo place had the 60" in a room by itself where the lighting could be controlled, and it looked rather impressive in low lighting. To me it sure looked like it had some nice native contrast, which is important to me, since I probably watch a majority of the time at night in low room lighting.

Sony generally is not a front-runner when it comes to having a lot of calibration controls, but I'm not sure the number of user controls necessarily means a better product. The majority of the important stuff is there, including gamma. I won't get my set until next week, but based on watching in store I expect Red is off as suggested by the Cnet review. It could be a hardware issue, where even if they gave you controls you might not be able to correct for it. Grayscale is sort of the same way, where people want 10-point controls, yet a certain percentage of those people probably don't improve the image by using the controls. From a marketing perspective Sony might be smart if they made their displays feature-competitive, but from a picture quality standpoint, personally I'm not convinced that Sony necessarily suffers due to their design decisions. Since I tend to do a good portion of my viewing at night in dim lighting, I'm willing to consider trading some controls and color for things like black level and contrast.

After seeing the 60" in dim lighting it looked like a good deal to me, but I decided to order the 70". The thread in this forum is generally negative on the W850B, and to me it seem like the 70" draws most of the complaints. All I really know is that red is clearly different from the XBRs in bright lighting, and the 60" in dim lighting got me to buy. General customer reviews seemed decent, and three reviewers seem to suggest the model might be better than average.
https://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/sony/w850b
http://www.cnet.com/products/sony-kdl-70w850b/
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2459604,00.asp
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post #3 of 13 Old 08-28-2014, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
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All of the 2014 Sony SmartTVs include a video camera/microphone for Skype. I bought a PS4 instead of an Xbox One at launch, even though I was a die hard XBoxer in the previous 2 generations, because I couldn't imagine putting a Kinect in my living room. Now that MS has made it optional, I may get an Xbox One in the future.

I've read 1984 a few too many times... too bad because the Sony KDL60W630B was my top contender and I thought I finally found the TV I would buy until I watched a Sony marketing video on YouTube that showed off the Skype features. I don't mind paying extra for 3D and Smart features I'll never use. But I can't put a video camera and microphone in my living room in good concious.

At this point, I've spent several weeks researching and would probably up my budget to $3k for a TV that lacked smart features and was just a TV. Just getting really frustrated with the search altogether. $1500 isn't a hard budget for me, it's just what I'd like to spend max. If I could get what I want, I'd spend whatever. But since I can't and I'm going to compromise on several levels, I'd like to keep it around or under $1500 since it won't feel as wasteful buying a TV I don't really like since the TV I'd really like to have does not exist (60" TV with thorough user-capable calibration settings, no 3D, no built-in speakers, no video processing, no apps or smart OS, turns on directly to the HDMI input with no popups). At this point I'll settle for "good enough" since it's unlikely any maker will ever put out a TV that fits my true desires. Although all phones used to come bundled with mandatory crapware and Apple and Google changed all that, so maybe we'll get some barebones TVs at some point.

For a while my research led me down the path of Plasmas but I watch a lot of TV during the day in a well-lit room and the reflection would drive me nuts.

Now I'm looking at LCDs and would prefer something in the 60" range but would go 55" to 65" if I found one that met my needs.

Viewing angle doesn't matter, I'll never watch it from more than 10 degrees off axis. It's just a matter of getting an image that isn't ridiculously processed to the point of being unwatchable.

Last edited by snickersbar; 08-28-2014 at 09:20 PM.
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post #4 of 13 Old 08-29-2014, 03:37 AM
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alluringreality;
How did you stumble across that rtings site?? It's too bad they are that limited in brands. Worse yet, they are using the 'LED' misnamed term for LCD TV's.

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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??
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post #5 of 13 Old 08-29-2014, 04:17 AM
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I'm just posting because I agree, just went from a rear projector to an lcd flatscreen. This video look drives me crazy, I was just about ready to pull the soldering gun out and repair the projector again, still might. I'm not loaded with cash, so I had to go with an older used tv.

I did the CNET numbers and the WOW calibration and finally tossed all that, I've never had to calibrate a tv in my life, just adjust to my liking and my liking has always been a soft natural picture. I spent weeks adjusting to soften the picture, get rid of the sharpee looking blacks and Technicolor/cartoon look, I've raised the brightness way up, sharpness/detail basically off, contrast/picture down, backlight down and color down, temp warm. Maybe you just haven't spent enough time wrestling with it ?

Still can be somewhat too bright and too dark at the same time, I hate that too.

http://hdguru.com/a-solution-to-the-...119/#more-2119

Sorry for the rant, back to your questions.
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post #6 of 13 Old 08-29-2014, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
alluringreality;
How did you stumble across that rtings site?? It's too bad they are that limited in brands. Worse yet, they are using the 'LED' misnamed term for LCD TV's.
It's pretty high in the Google results when searching for W850B reviews. While I refer to all LCDs as LCDs, right now the Best Buy site indicates they sell 7 LCDs. Personally I can't say I've seen a TV review site that's more in line with my interests, and I agree it would be great if they had more reviews. Since the TV is sold as an LED at places like Best Buy, I don't see that sort of thing as an issue any more than some of the grammatical errors.

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Originally Posted by snickersbar View Post
But I can't put a video camera and microphone in my living room in good concious.
The only model I've looked much into is the one I mentioned, and on that model the manual indicates the camera and microphone for Skype is an extra-cost accessory that does not come with the TV.

Quote:
At this point, I've spent several weeks researching and would probably up my budget to $3k for a TV that lacked smart features and was just a TV. Just getting really frustrated with the search altogether. $1500 isn't a hard budget for me, it's just what I'd like to spend max.
I'm not sure where going up in price buys less features in the current TV market. For what it's worth, the deals section suggests the model I listed has went for $1200 once in the past, and I'm sure it will be lower than current retail when the next models come out. Costco doesn't list the price online, so I don't know if they sell for less than where everyone else is pricing it. At some point it will be possible to buy the model for less than the stated budget, even with things like tax and delivery charges.

Last edited by alluringreality; 08-29-2014 at 05:46 AM.
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post #7 of 13 Old 08-29-2014, 06:22 AM
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Try a new Sharp 60UD27 that debuts within a month.

Matte Screen is very likely
Auto-Dimming (called OPC) can be turned off in 10 seconds
Soap Opera Mode can be defeated easily
Yes - Smart Interface
UHD w/THX Certification
60" Likely will street under $2500

I don't mean to attack but it doesn't make any sense that you complain on features that can be disabled within a minute or less or annoyed by smart features that don't have to be used yet you'll go through the hassle of repackaging and returning a 60" screen repeatedly.

You do realize the Costco returns window used to be much longer and it was shortened due to arbitrary abuse of the return window as they lose significant money - your repeated returns have a price to Costco as they cannot sell that panel at full price and it cuts directly into profits.

Don't you think it's fair that you do your homework and audition BEFORE you buy FIRST to minimize the returns window of opportunity. Arbitrarily doing this like your returning a pair of shoes eventually leads to damage the membership of Costco as that's directly why it was shortened to what it is today - Costco has to eat profits to resell every TV you return as an Open Box Item.

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post #8 of 13 Old 08-29-2014, 07:08 AM
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[QUOTE= I decided to order the 70". The thread in this forum is generally negative on the W850B, and to me it seem like the 70" draws most of the complaints.[/QUOTE]

I'm also thinking about ordering the Sony 70W850B, I'm returning Vizio M652i B2 set because of a bad pixel, and thought the 70" might be a better deal. The Vizio was $1500 and the Sony is $2078, both on Amazon. Let us know how the Sony looks to you. I agree with snickersbar that it's kind of absurd that most 2014 LED/LCD TV's have one thing or another that keeps them from being an excellent set. You shouldn't have to spend $5,000 to get a great looking TV when the components are so cheap to manufacture....
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post #9 of 13 Old 08-29-2014, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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How do I find out if it has a built in camera and microphone?

The YouTube marketing materials make it seem like they come with built in cam/mic. However, it doesn't seem visible on the actual TV when looking at pictures elsewhere.
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post #10 of 13 Old 08-29-2014, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's the YouTube video that shows the built in video camera. The marketing guy explicitly calls it out as a built in camera.

However, the pictures of the TV online do not have that huge left/right speaker area, which is where the built-in camera is.

I wonder if this is something that comes in the box, whereby you have to manually attach the side speakers, and doing so includes the video camera. And perhaps Sony doesn't show it attached in regular pictures because it makes it look ugly. If so, does that mean you can't use the TV without attaching the NSA spying device and speakers I won't use, or will the TV operate without connecting it?

Or perhaps this is from Europe or another market where the US version doesn't include the side speakers/video camera built in.

It's ironic that this was the TV I was going to buy until I saw the marketing video, which made me deadset AGAINST buying it or any other Sony TV since all of them are listed as "Skype Ready". Great job Sony...

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post #11 of 13 Old 08-29-2014, 08:50 AM
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If you don't connect it to the internet you have no reason to worry, unless they have them snooping wirelessly ?
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post #12 of 13 Old 08-29-2014, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatnikV View Post
If you don't connect it to the internet you have no reason to worry, unless they have them snooping wirelessly ?

It has WiFi built in. So even if I don't connect to the internet, doesn't mean someone can't snoop. There's multiple online web forums dedicated to hacking into people's wireless nanny and home security cameras.

For the rest of my life, I'll wonder if one of my neighbors in my apartment complex was logging into my TV.

I had friends who used to do that to cordless phones back in the 1990s when they weren't encrypted and you could pick them up on handheld scanners.
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post #13 of 13 Old 08-29-2014, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videokid View Post
Let us know how the Sony looks to you.
I expect to have it calibrated for football a week from Sunday. I was planning on getting the 60" from Walmart for the 90 day return policy, but I decided to go with Best Buy for having display models and free delivery, so I'll need to decide quickly if the 70" is as bad as the forum might suggest.

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How do I find out if it has a built in camera and microphone?
The Sony support site has manuals. According to the Skype instructions in the i-Manual, both models use a USB accessory
http://esupport.sony.com/US/p/model-...ls#/manualsTab
http://esupport.sony.com/US/p/model-...ls#/manualsTab

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