***Official 2014 Vizio P Series Owner's Thread - Page 160 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4771 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 08:26 AM
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P60 vs F8500 - initial impressions

I picked up the F8500 last night and set it up next to the P60 for a quick comparison. Unbox, set up, quick (and I mean quick) cleanup of colors, and away we go. This is running via my HTPC cloning the display at 1080P. I had a buddy of mine over that owns the Samsung plasma model preceding the F8500 - forgive me for not knowing the exact model. Pictures aren't the best, but they'll provide some insight... I'll pull out the Canon this weekend and try to get some cleaner images if you guys have any requests for them.

All of the pictures here: Album

The black level of the P60 next to the plasma surprised me (although it shouldn't have after Buzz's review). Many, many times one could pick out the slight gray of the plasma when the P60 was absolute black. For example:


Blooming is minimal:


Colors are vibrant:


Black is black:


There are times in which faces appear a bit washed out on the P60, almost like a spotlight is shining on them. Other times they look real - no doubt I need to tweak the settings.


We watched a few various Blu-ray scenes, but I can't dual output the PS3 so no pics there. We weren't able to pick out anything between the 2 sets though.

Altogether, the plasma didn't impress me as I thought it would. The PQ has always been good with the Vizio, it was just primarily motion handling that was bugging me. Turning GLL on via HDMI5 virtually eliminated my concerns there. We will see how sports go over the weekend before I make the final decision, but I'm leaning really hard towards keeping the Vizio. The plasma will have to go back regardless as there is a defect in the panel where a horizontal line is always visible about 1/3 up from the bottom, but unless it blows me away with sports feeds it will be going back permanently.
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post #4772 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 08:59 AM
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Could someone with a P60 or preferably a P70 do me a favor and go the User Guide and look for a line running next to the bezel on the right side of the screen like in my pic. It also shows up on a blue screen like the one you get with no input but I cannot figure out how to bring this up again. I am trying to determine if this is a defective panel or if it is normal. It does not appear on the Flat Test Pattern at any brightness level nor does it go away if you resize the screen. I sent an email to Vizio but I did not have the option of sending a pic, they have not responded yet.
Thanks for any help.
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post #4773 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AhhYes View Post
I admit to not having done a ton of work to find other sources, but I kind of agree with Eugene. I'd love to have some more 4K stuff to view on the set, and the lack of support for common mp4s is annoying.
It is not that I disagree with you (nor Eugene, for that matter), for we all want more 4K options and sources to showcase this particular set; however, Eugene has made it a point to mention this fact in each of his posts. That is getting a bit repetitive and annoying, as it is akin to beating an already dead horse.
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post #4774 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Compeau View Post
I watched the h.265 Tears of Steel video somebody posted a torrent for. Dang, that looks amazingly good, and it's only around 27 mbps. I'm now completely sold on 4K Blu-Ray.
Downloaded it here and it wouldn't play....



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lankness View Post
I picked up the F8500 last night and set it up next to the P60 for a quick comparison.
Referenced your post right under my side by side with the VT60 on page 1, post 3. Thanks for your observations.
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post #4775 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
Earlier I posted here about buying the P series, I measured last night my space.
What you see below is a 2005 42" 720p set, on the LH side that speaker constraints how far the set can go, as I need clearance to swing the window down for cleaning/etc, also viewing is an issue if tucked behind that speaker.

The 50" will fit in exact same space, the 55" will slightly hang over the stones.
The 60" will hang mid-way towards the fireplace.... Height wise the 60" is same height as that 42" old HDTV.

Based on the slightly negative comments of the 55" panel I've read in this long thread I was thinking 60" or 50", of course bigger is always better, right?
My concern is heat of the fireplace for the 60" , but getting the 50" will not seem like that much of an upgrade...so then I'm back to the 55".

Is the 55" really to be avoided? That's my sweet spot one for max size and visual balance.
If you view under those bright-room conditions, the 55" would be ideal. Even if you view in a dim room (some bias lights) it will deliver.

Only if you view in a dark room and want the deepest blacks and greatest contrast will the sizes with VA panes like the 50" and 60" be better than the IPS-based 55"

Also, the viewing angles on the 55" will be significantly better, so depending on how many views you have and from what angle, that may be another factor favoring the P55...
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post #4776 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Downloaded it here and it wouldn't play....
The one from the torrent played directly on the Vizio from my flash drive. Are you sure that dl is the same encoding?
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post #4777 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtl46 View Post
Could someone with a P60 or preferably a P70 do me a favor and go the User Guide and look for a line running next to the bezel on the right side of the screen like in my pic. It also shows up on a blue screen like the one you get with no input but I cannot figure out how to bring this up again. I am trying to determine if this is a defective panel or if it is normal. It does not appear on the Flat Test Pattern at any brightness level nor does it go away if you resize the screen. I sent an email to Vizio but I did not have the option of sending a pic, they have not responded yet.
Thanks for any help.
Same on my P60. Must be normal.

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post #4778 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Compeau View Post
The one from the torrent played directly on the Vizio from my flash drive. Are you sure that dl is the same encoding?
Did you download the file I did or download via torrent peer-to-peer? If peer-to-peer, where is the torrent located?

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post #4779 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lankness View Post
I picked up the F8500 last night and set it up next to the P60 for a quick comparison. Unbox, set up, quick (and I mean quick) cleanup of colors, and away we go. This is running via my HTPC cloning the display at 1080P. I had a buddy of mine over that owns the Samsung plasma model preceding the F8500 - forgive me for not knowing the exact model. Pictures aren't the best, but they'll provide some insight... I'll pull out the Canon this weekend and try to get some cleaner images if you guys have any requests for them.

All of the pictures here: Album

The black level of the P60 next to the plasma surprised me (although it shouldn't have after Buzz's review). Many, many times one could pick out the slight gray of the plasma when the P60 was absolute black. For example:


Blooming is minimal:


Colors are vibrant:


Black is black:


There are times in which faces appear a bit washed out on the P60, almost like a spotlight is shining on them. Other times they look real - no doubt I need to tweak the settings.


We watched a few various Blu-ray scenes, but I can't dual output the PS3 so no pics there. We weren't able to pick out anything between the 2 sets though.

Altogether, the plasma didn't impress me as I thought it would. The PQ has always been good with the Vizio, it was just primarily motion handling that was bugging me. Turning GLL on via HDMI5 virtually eliminated my concerns there. We will see how sports go over the weekend before I make the final decision, but I'm leaning really hard towards keeping the Vizio. The plasma will have to go back regardless as there is a defect in the panel where a horizontal line is always visible about 1/3 up from the bottom, but unless it blows me away with sports feeds it will be going back permanently.

Fantastic side-by-side comparison - thanks.

The other area of concern some have raised about the P Series is visible dimming artifacts such as backlight adjustments lagging scene changes, visible dimming zones changing brightness (not masked by an overall scene change), etc...

Can you comment on how often your Vizio P produced artifacts that made you aware of the backlight and the local dimming (versus the F8500, where there is none except possibly for ABL-related brightness changes).

Any notable difference in the level of distraction / artifacts between the two sets while watching movies in the dark?
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post #4780 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Did you download the file I did or download via torrent peer-to-peer? If peer-to-peer, where is the torrent located?
I downloaded JStanton's encoding via bt client. Just open the attached torrent file.

Post 1785
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post #4781 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by B Howard View Post
I downloaded the file from a torrent. Search for: ts4k.h265.ac3.torrent

mkv wrapper, Matroska: 2.30 GiB, 12mn 14s, HEVC ([email protected]), AC-3, Overall bit rate: 26.9 mbps, 3840x2160 (16:9)
Buzz, here is my post with the info on the Tears of Steel file.
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post #4782 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Fantastic side-by-side comparison - thanks.


The other area of concern some have raised about the P Series is visible dimming artifacts such as backlight adjustments lagging scene changes, visible dimming zones changing brightness (not masked by an overall scene change), etc...


Can you comment on how often your Vizio P produced artifacts that made you aware of the backlight and the local dimming (versus the F8500, where there is none except possibly for ABL-related brightness changes).


Any notable difference in the level of distraction / artifacts between the two sets while watching movies in the dark?
On occasion I will catch the backlight delay when dimming on a scene where it goes from very light to very dark quickly. For example, one of the Nat Geo shows had panoramic views of the ocean off of the California coast. As it panned across, you could catch the dimming along the cliff edges as they took over areas previously inhabited by the bright blue and white waves. I really have to be watching for it for it to be distracting though... Watching the same on the plasma, of course you don't see it. Watching something fast paced like Bourne last night, I never noticed it.
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post #4783 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:35 AM
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Has anyone experienced a grainy picture when upscaling broadcast content? I'm not sure if that's the 4k upscaler or the actual source material in question.

I noticed this watching The Flash last night on the WB. I'm wondering if I should not upscale broadcast through HDMI5 (my Onk AVR is doing it now).
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post #4784 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lankness View Post
I picked up the F8500 last night and set it up next to the P60 for a quick comparison.
Nice work! Just FYI, in case you didn't already have it set, you should have Black optimizer set to Dark room on the F8500 (I am assuming you were already in Movie mode). Black Optimizer makes a considerable impact on overall black level.
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Recommended calibration settings for Samsung PN60F5300B
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post #4785 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Compeau View Post
I downloaded JStanton's encoding via bt client. Just open the attached torrent file.

Post 1785
Got it. I'm downloading with uT. There's only 1 peer. It appears to be a US anonymous VPN and at the present rate I won't have it all until this evening.

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post #4786 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
The same guy watched part of that episode and got interested in the series and watched it in 1080p and was not impressed by the video quality (though he loved the show).

I'm not a big proponent of 4K and it was no part of my decision to buy a P-Series television. I was interested in FALD and the name of that game is zone count and the P-Series had the largest number of zones that I could afford. Also, all of the best tech that the OEMs are offering is only on their 4K models, like Vizio's 6 core processor which runs their VIA apps quite well, HEVC decoding which can reduce bandwidth required to stream lower-res-than-4k streaming content and 802.11ac wireless. All I cared about was its upconversion of 720 and 1080 res video and I've been, for the most part, more than satisfied with that, with the exception of a subset of the 1080i broadcast TV that I watch; some of it's stunningly crisp (CSI for instance), some of it seems softer than on my old 1080p set (NCIS for instance).

I am, however, impressed with a very small amount of the 4K content that I've viewed from 5' away of the 55" P. Pretty much just The Blacklist and the nauseating Smurfs 2. Breaking Bad, a transfer from film, isn't much enhanced by 4K presentation and House of Cards Season 2, shot to 2160p digital like The Blacklist also fails to impress (me).

I'm fairly certain that the VIA YouTube app is not 4K capable, but there's no way to tell for sure since it has no indication of what resolution you're currently seeing. I'm also not convinced that anything on Amazon has actually been in 4K, regardless of the "UHD" label that was around briefly. The label floated around from title to title day by day and lots of the content on which it landed was definitely not 4K (it's completely disappeared now, so its presence was probably just a test of the label).

4K in general, like 3D, asks people to change the way that they watch television, gathering far closer to average sized living and family room TVs than is normal in order to appreciate the affect. It may roll on pushed by the manufacturers without any significant customer demand until it become the defacto standard but I don't think that it has much potential to truly enhance home video for Joe and Jill Average.
I think these are good points/observations - it goes into the "what floats your boat" category. Given your comments on 4K in general, from a value proposition, would you say, for instance, that the P70 is worth $700 more than the M70? And, under the "do no harm" rule, is there anything that the P70 (or series) does that complicates or degrades the user satisfaction when compared to the M-series?
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post #4787 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B Howard View Post
Buzz, here is my post with the info on the Tears of Steel file.
Searching that one takes me right back to AVS. Got it anyway (earlier post). Thanks.

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Last edited by buzzard767; 10-15-2014 at 09:44 AM.
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post #4788 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:41 AM
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Fafrd, Buzz, and Googer:

I am looking to buy a tv to last me the next 4-5 years. Do you think a P70 will do the job or should I wait for the reference series 65in (whenever that arrives)? I am coming from a 2012 Sony 46HX850 and it's a great set, but I am just looking to go bigger. It will beused for all tv/movie watching dark and low-mid light environment and I will be console gaming on this set so plasma is out of the question and so is Samsung due to terrible input lag times which i've tested and immediately returned. I've looked at the w850 from sony and the x850/x900, but something keeps bringing me back to the vizio especially with the recent amount of positive posts from most people about enjoying their set!

My dilemma in waiting for the reference series is the 5 inches... I know (well hopefully know) that it will be a better set than the p70, but since i'm not a videophile will it really matter much? I understand these questions are highly subjective and maybe I should just have some patience and wait it out, but I would just like to hear some different opinions.
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post #4789 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Same on my P60. Must be normal.
Thanks Buzz. I was surprised it did not show up on the Test Pattern which leads me to think it not the panel but rather the material that is being shown. Did you by any chance notice anything like that when you were doing your calibration?
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post #4790 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalBeast View Post
Fafrd, Buzz, and Googer:

I am looking to buy a tv to last me the next 4-5 years. Do you think a P70 will do the job or should I wait for the reference series 65in (whenever that arrives)?
If I were in your situation I'd wait 3-4 months and see what the R65 brings in terms of PQ and price. If you're hooked on 70", the P should hold you over until OLED becomes large and reasonably priced.

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post #4791 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jtl46 View Post
Thanks Buzz. I was surprised it did not show up on the Test Pattern which leads me to think it not the panel but rather the material that is being shown. Did you by any chance notice anything like that when you were doing your calibration?
No but I didn't make any sort of edge examination either. It's not there in normal content so I don't believe there should be any concern.

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post #4792 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 09:53 AM
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I received my 70p yesterday and after performing my standard OCD un-boxing ritual of checking for cracks and shipping damages, I powered it up. I ran through Vizio’s initial start-up process and displayed the internal grayscale test patterns to check for stuck/dead pixels and for any uniformity issues. It passed the test and surprisingly, it was extremely uniform across all intensities. I have not received my PRO2 from Tom and I was going to break out my profiled display 3 pro, however, I just wanted to do some preliminary testing. I selected calibrated dark (and not having a meter hooked up), dropped the backlight down to 20, and adjusted contrast/brightness/color/sharpness via my disc. Then I entered advanced setup and turned off all processing (which seemed to be the entire menu). I left on local dimming and set gamma to 2.4. Moving onto content, The Amazing Spiderman 2 1080p source direct out of my OPPO BDP-93 looked pristine considering Vizio was doing all the processing to scale this video to the native resolution of the panel. With sharpness set to 0, the image remained crisp and free of artifacts. Next was Netflix. I selected the first UHD movie I came across (which happened to be The Smurfs 2), I was blown away (not by the movie) but the resolution. The picture quality was phenomenal. Lastly, I wanted to put the P through some dark room testing and check Vizio’s local dimming implementation limitations. I stuck with calibrated dark, ran through my 2% patch 21-point grayscale, and check for blooming at all intensities. Surprisingly, blooming was minimal as I think this is due to Vizio not completely turning off its backlight unless nothing is displayed on the screen. However, I did find an anomaly. Calibration dark seems to have a completely different dimming algorithm than any other preset. I noticed this when I went to save under a custom name and once saved, the blooming was almost magnified by 50%. I didn’t find this acceptable and decided to re-run another test. I deleted the new custom saved preset and brought calibrated dark back to factory. Next, I changed one setting (sharpness), so I can get the asterisk next to the calibrated dark preset. Then, I saved it again under a custom name and as soon as I hit save, the same anomaly happened again (a complete backlight shift). I will have to do some further testing but it seems like with this current firmware 1.0.0, calibrated dark seems to have the best local dimming implementation over the rest of the presets, however the local dimming scheme cannot be saved to a custom preset. Only the settings can be saved. I will do some more testing this weekend once my meter arrives and I’ll update you once completed.

Ryan
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post #4793 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lankness View Post
On occasion I will catch the backlight delay when dimming on a scene where it goes from very light to very dark quickly. For example, one of the Nat Geo shows had panoramic views of the ocean off of the California coast. As it panned across, you could catch the dimming along the cliff edges as they took over areas previously inhabited by the bright blue and white waves. I really have to be watching for it for it to be distracting though... Watching the same on the plasma, of course you don't see it. Watching something fast paced like Bourne last night, I never noticed it.

Thanks - the important input was that it was largely not distracting and only noticeable if you are looking for it.

In average viewing content (whatever that means :-), how often do you suppose it might be noticeable enough to 'pull you out of the movie' if you are sensitive to it but not looking for it. Not once in Bourne last night suggests it's probably a small issue. If I notice the backlight dimming once or twice in an average movie and the number of movies it is so distracting that I intervene to turn off local dimming is 1-2 movies out of a 100 (1-2%), I'd be good.
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post #4794 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 10:08 AM
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I detailed my P70 being cracked in an earlier post. When I transported it home my buddy with the truck made me lay it flat in the truck bed. I wanted to stand it up and he insisted there would be no difference. Was he right or could transporting it flat be the reason it cracked if it wasn't cracked between the factory and Costco floor?

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post #4795 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalBeast View Post
Fafrd, Buzz, and Googer:

I am looking to buy a tv to last me the next 4-5 years. Do you think a P70 will do the job or should I wait for the reference series 65in (whenever that arrives)? I am coming from a 2012 Sony 46HX850 and it's a great set, but I am just looking to go bigger. It will beused for all tv/movie watching dark and low-mid light environment and I will be console gaming on this set so plasma is out of the question and so is Samsung due to terrible input lag times which i've tested and immediately returned. I've looked at the w850 from sony and the x850/x900, but something keeps bringing me back to the vizio especially with the recent amount of positive posts from most people about enjoying their set!

My dilemma in waiting for the reference series is the 5 inches... I know (well hopefully know) that it will be a better set than the p70, but since i'm not a videophile will it really matter much? I understand these questions are highly subjective and maybe I should just have some patience and wait it out, but I would just like to hear some different opinions.

The R Series should deliver better local dimming performance (but will be more expensive and who knows when it will arrive - hopefully in January ).

My plan is to pick up a P70 (or perhaps P65 for the improved viewing-angles) and evaluate it at home. If the local dimming artifacts are almost never noticeable/distracting, it's a keeper. And if it's distracting enough that I occasionally turn it off (or just suck it up ), then I will probably return the P and hold out for the R.

But I have to admit that the very positive reviews on the P have increased my interest in the R... If Vizio can deliver the local dimming performance they have on the P with only 64-72 dimming zones, I'm licking my chops at the thought of what they could do with a Sharp Elite-besting 384 local dimming zones on the R65
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post #4796 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 10:15 AM
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If you view under those bright-room conditions, the 55" would be ideal. Even if you view in a dim room (some bias lights) it will deliver.

Only if you view in a dark room and want the deepest blacks and greatest contrast will the sizes with VA panes like the 50" and 60" be better than the IPS-based 55"

Also, the viewing angles on the 55" will be significantly better, so depending on how many views you have and from what angle, that may be another factor favoring the P55...
Thx very much for feedback, the "batcave" is the basement HT, it's pure dark for PJ environment usage.
Family room is never pure dark, sometimes dim but always some light on.

Based on your advice I'll start shopping for a 55" near me, I prefer direct pick-up ie Costco/Walmart/BB/etc against Amazon on a big purchase like this......

With Black Friday coming up gotta wonder if waiting till then is $$ prudent....or if I get say Oct-31st and a sale is there Black Friday then within 30 day window for price adjustment......need to look at each place policy for that.

3 places all same model # 55" P552ui-B2 :
http://www.walmart.com/ip/VIZIO-P552...rt-TV/36125834

http://www.costco.com/Vizio-55%22-Cl...100130393.html

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/vizio-p-...1001&cp=1&lp=6

>>If I use Costco AMEX I get free extended warranty also?? Need to look into that also.

Not to hijack this thread but for these were are you guys getting your full motion wall mounts from?
Parts Express or ??

Last edited by mtbdudex; 10-15-2014 at 10:29 AM.
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post #4797 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 10:16 AM
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I guess this is a case of "You gonna believe me or your lying eyes." i.e., you can buy the P502ui-B1 from Vizio's store front. This is usually a harbinger that retailers (that is outside of Wal-Mart and Cosco - they appear to be getting the P502ui-B1E ) are not that far off from getting inventory when it's available from Vizio directly.

Sounds like you want to audition a 4k television from every manufacturer

Costco.com has the regular P502ui-B1 available for shipping on their website right now. The B1E might be a Walmart exclusive. I ordered the regular P50-B1 from Costco on Saturday and it will be here tomorrow.
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post #4798 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 10:22 AM
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A little off topic but I figured if anyone had this issue it would be worth sharing for them. So as some of you know I purchased my P70 from Amazon. Original price of $2500. Priced matched to get the 10% off to bring it down to $2250. Since I am a prime member I got an additional discount of $50. This made my checkout price $2200. Now for the new part. My delivery was scheduled for this Friday. I received a call from the shipping company saying they will not be able to deliver the tv on Friday but it would have to be Monday instead. I immediately called Amazon and they confirmed. The lady was nice and offered me a credit of $200. Which made the P70 cost an even $2000. Not bad if you ask me. So if for whatever reason your tv arrives late make sure you inform Amazon as they will supply you with a handsome credit.
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post #4799 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 10:47 AM
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No but I didn't make any sort of edge examination either. It's not there in normal content so I don't believe there should be any concern.
You can see some weird stuff on 4K in that area, at least you can on Blacklist. I need to try some other 4K content. Also, I have now tried to access Netflix directly from the tv via a wireless connection and it doesn't work even though it says I am connected. I does work on a wired network. I cannot see any settings that I am missing. Anyone have this problem?
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post #4800 of 18021 Old 10-15-2014, 10:50 AM
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Thx very much for feedback, the "batcave" is the basement HT, it's pure dark for PJ environment usage.
Family room is never pure dark, sometimes dim but always some light on.

Based on your advice I'll start shopping for a 55" near me, I prefer direct pick-up ie Costco/Walmart/BB/etc against Amazon on a big purchase like this......

With Black Friday coming up gotta wonder if waiting till then is $$ prudent....or if I get say Oct-31st and a sale is there Black Friday then within 30 day window for price adjustment......need to look at each place policy for that.

3 places all same model # 55" P552ui-B2 :
http://www.walmart.com/ip/VIZIO-P552...rt-TV/36125834

http://www.costco.com/Vizio-55%22-Cl...100130393.html

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/vizio-p-...1001&cp=1&lp=6

>>If I use Costco AMEX I get free extended warranty also?? Need to look into that also.

Not to hijack this thread but for these were are you guys getting your full motion wall mounts from?
Parts Express or ??
I have not confirmed this but at one time I was told that the Costco branded AMEX does not offer the 1 year extended warranty that other AMEX cards have.
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