***Official 2014 Vizio P Series Owner's Thread - Page 165 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4921 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Googer View Post
Very true that it may just be differences between how the different P70's calibrate, as well as a lack of information on how it didn't look right.

Another thing worth pointing out that may be that we're not referring to the same 75% when we say 'calibrate at 75%' - CalMAN's advanced workflow configuration that lets you set this is referring to the luminance used, not saturation. In that case 'calibrate at 75%' (which is the workflow's default even) means 100% saturation, 75% luminance. Doing that, I could get a pretty CMS chart exactly as you posted with minimal error but the true lesser saturations (as measured on a saturation sweep, and from the various colors measured with the color checker) were horrible.

.

I Calibrated using Googers under Standard and Zmad under Calibrated - Im trying out both of your calibrations and I like them for different content , gaming watching Netflix , one has more shadow detail than the other and sharpness but im guessing that has to do with the the default preset , I adjusted both calibrations to have "black detail on" bc I found that it improved how the picture popped while keeping good shadow detail .


Thanks for the hard work.
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post #4922 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
4K is the near future and then we're going to 8K. The detail in the picture was VERY impressive when viewed in both dark and bright environments. Great stuff.
Do you need to physically be in the TV to notice 8K?
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post #4923 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
Do you need to physically be in the TV to notice 8K?
You'll probably need a projector.
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post #4924 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
Do you need to physically be in the TV to notice 8K?
It'll be here in 2020 whether you like it or not.

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post #4925 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Compeau View Post
You'll probably need a projector.
Could be. 1080p scaled to 4K looks fantastic through my Sony 600ES.

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post #4926 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Googer View Post
Very true that it may just be differences between how the different P70's calibrate, as well as a lack of information on how it didn't look right.

Another thing worth pointing out that may be that we're not referring to the same 75% when we say 'calibrate at 75%' - CalMAN's advanced workflow configuration that lets you set this is referring to the luminance used, not saturation. In that case 'calibrate at 75%' (which is the workflow's default even) means 100% saturation, 75% luminance. Doing that, I could get a pretty CMS chart exactly as you posted with minimal error but the true lesser saturations (as measured on a saturation sweep, and from the various colors measured with the color checker) were horrible.

I've gotten much better results by ignoring the 100% saturation points and calibrating directly with the inner, lesser-saturated points from the saturation sweep on my set - this is part of what I mean by not using the standard calibration workflow for these sets. If you look at my actual saturation sweep graphs, you'll see that my errors are extremely low for the inner points, drifting a bit higher on the top end (with green and yellow in particular still somewhat over-saturated), but actual total error even for them is still quite acceptable. Red of course is still an issue but bringing the red saturation sweep in-line with a hue adjustment messes up the nearby interpolated reds and oranges (i.e., skin tones ), and blue actually has a slight twist towards magenta on its top end but it's rather minor and doesn't seem to cause issues with any content.
I hear you on the inner inputs... Can't say though that they looked terrible by no means after calibration. Certainly nothing one would pick up as "wrong looking grass" if you know what I mean... The grass looked nothing but beautiful on my set. So how any of the settings translate between sets remains a bit of a game of luck of course as always Although Vizios seem to translate relatively well overall...

Yeah, don't get me started on the red issue, lol. This was such a buzzkiller for me, especially because I came from a Sharp set that had that exact same anomaly (Sharp panels issue). I see a huge difference between the orangish reds of the P70 (or Sharp panels in general) and other accurate panels when it comes to red color. I notice the orange tint on so many things in regular content (knowing how the accurate red should look like), I just couldn't live with it on yet another TV... Your chart shows the swing towards orange nicely and it starts relatively early on inner inputs and gets worse as you get more saturation. I'm sure I have a greater sensitivity to it than the average viewer, since like all of us calibrators I can't help but look at the picture through the "eyes of a colorimeter", lol. I'm sure you know what I mean... Plus looking at my VT50 at the same time with practically perfect colors didn't help at all
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post #4927 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 09:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Netflix says 25 Mbps but I think that's conservative. In general you need about 20% headroom to stay ahead of a stream (to fill the buffer and keep it full as available bandwidth on your connection to the servers fluctuates); the maximum bit rate 2160p Netflix encode is 15.6 Mbps, with .192 Mbps that 15.792 x 1.2 = 18.9 Mbps, so 20 Mbps service should be fine. If you have other significant bandwidth consumption while watching Netflix you'll need more.
The problem is most people are on a shared line throughout the house. So with the Xbox, Ipad and computers all sharing my 20MB Uverse conection, I am lucky if I can stream 720p without constant chocking. In the test runs they have been doing in Japan they are saying 40Mbps at minimum for decent quality 4K. 4K bluray is said to be considering 60-100mbps transfer rates. I think eventually Netflix will raise the transfer rates as people see better quality 4K with WCG and HDR and wonder why their Netflix stream does not look as good.
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post #4928 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z-Mad View Post

Yeah, don't get me started on the red issue, lol. This was such a buzzkiller for me, especially because I came from a Sharp set that had that exact same anomaly (Sharp panels issue). I see a huge difference between the orangish reds of the P70 (or Sharp panels in general) and other accurate panels when it comes to red color.
The decreased Red saturation (other colors as well) is VERY obvious with the P60 placed side by side with the VT60 and the F8000. We have to live with it. I can.

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post #4929 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 09:33 AM
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Here's the result of an EVGA 970 on the 55" Needless to say, after waiting a year, I, also, am pretty bummed. Since getting the P, I have spent more hours on the phone with both company's tech supports, than I have off the phone...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwuDh_UTs1E
Interesting. I'm likely overstating the importance of 4:4:4 for me personally, but the 4:4:4 issues have me considering just getting an M-series for lower cost. Although TV/BluRay/Consoles will be 90% of the use case, it is hooked up to an HTPC and I was worried the ugly 4:2:0 text would drive me nuts.

At the same time, when your set is at 1080p in the video everything looks just fine to me. The text is nice and crisp as far as the video goes, enough that I don't think it would 'bug' me the odd time I'm surfing the web. That plus avstaku seems to indicate later in the thread that 4:4:4 @ 1080p/120 is doable. Does HDMI 1-4 do 4:4:4 @ 1080/60?

Currently the times where I really need 4K or 120hz is rare, maybe I can overlook the 4:4:4 @ 4K
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post #4930 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 09:36 AM
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It'll be here in 2020 whether you like it or not.
Meanwhile, my Time Warner cable internet connection will still be 10/1 mbps whether I like it or not.
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Recommended calibration settings for Samsung PN60F5300B
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post #4931 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
The decreased Red saturation (other colors as well) is VERY obvious with the P60 placed side by side with the VT60 and the F8000. We have to live with it. I can.
Yep... I know what you mean... I just couldn't anymore (since I lived with it for a while on the Sharp TV already) - but that's just me
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post #4932 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 09:42 AM
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Meanwhile, my Time Warner cable internet connection will still be 10/1 mbps whether I like it or not.
Charter Cable above 40 at differing times of the day/night

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post #4933 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
I got the Tears Of Steel 4K via peer-to-peer and played it via thumb drive.

Wow!!!!!!

4K is the near future and then we're going to 8K. The detail in the picture was VERY impressive when viewed in both dark and bright environments. Great stuff.
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Do you need to physically be in the TV to notice 8K?
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Originally Posted by Compeau View Post
You'll probably need a projector.
Here's a relevant thread for this discussion
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/308-co...-response.html


and this 4k vs 8k thread
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ole...l#post28132794
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post #4934 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 09:57 AM
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We were told a former Vizio employee (apparently you) said that the P502ui-B1 wouldn't be available until January and that clearly isn't the case. It's available at the Vizio store front and apparently Cosco (someone ordered a P502ui-B1 on Saturday and is expecting delivery tomorrow) right now. Amazon has 3-4 weeks for expected deliveries which admittedly means they don't currently have them in stock but it sure implies they'll have them in before or at the very least during the holidays. Big box stores don't get much bigger than Amazon and Cosco but on the bright side you might not be wrong about Best Buy not having them until after the holidays.
The initial plan for the P502ui-B1 was for only International (Future shop and Best Buy Canada). Small quantities ended up going to Amazon and Costco.com (Talking roughly 2-300 units to each). Their isn't much replenishment going to either until supply frees up in early 2015. VIZIO.com gets a very small quantity of units each week of each model, but the quantity is generally 5-10 units
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post #4935 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 10:00 AM
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A quick update on my P70.

I have fixed whatever the issue with the XBox one was so TV passes through ok now. Even my wife commented on how the picture was much cleaner than previously. As I said before, this was a fault I had in the previous TV so more likely something in a cable or connection.

Movies look great on the TV. I can't get over the blacks! I did noticed a bit of blooming in a movie my wife had rented ("Blended") in some of the night scenes but nothing too distracting and I think I could probably tune that down in the settings when I have some time to experiment.

Games on my XBox One look excellent on the new screen - I don't really play enough or competitively enough to comment on lag and have never really noticed it on any other screen either so am not one to judge or comment on that. The colors and pop though are almost spectacular and I can see a massive improvement over my old Samsung TV it replaced.

I finally got around to hooking up optical between my TV and AVR so can now watch (and hear!) Netflix, Amazon through VIA apps - I tried a couple of 4K and was very impressed. Again, my wife who has no interest in the science behind the home theater was also quite stunned with 4K (her first experience) - we will probably watch the new series of "Orange is the New Black" on the Vizio when it comes out, rather than our more convenient Samsung ES8000. I ran "The Blacklist" for a few minutes and definitely can see the difference between 4K and 1080P. We sit about 7 feet from our screen.

I have noticed that vertical line others have discussed but not really in any meaningful content.

All in all, I'm very happy with the TV so far and its definitely checked all the boxes I needed. I was always going to get the outgoing Samsung Plasma but am happy with the larger screen, comparable blacks and lack of buzz.
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post #4936 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by pilgrimpete View Post
A quick update on my P70.

I have fixed whatever the issue with the XBox one was so TV passes through ok now. Even my wife commented on how the picture was much cleaner than previously. As I said before, this was a fault I had in the previous TV so more likely something in a cable or connection.

Movies look great on the TV. I can't get over the blacks! I did noticed a bit of blooming in a movie my wife had rented ("Blended") in some of the night scenes but nothing too distracting and I think I could probably tune that down in the settings when I have some time to experiment.

Games on my XBox One look excellent on the new screen - I don't really play enough or competitively enough to comment on lag and have never really noticed it on any other screen either so am not one to judge or comment on that. The colors and pop though are almost spectacular and I can see a massive improvement over my old Samsung TV it replaced.

I finally got around to hooking up optical between my TV and AVR so can now watch (and hear!) Netflix, Amazon through VIA apps - I tried a couple of 4K and was very impressed. Again, my wife who has no interest in the science behind the home theater was also quite stunned with 4K (her first experience) - we will probably watch the new series of "Orange is the New Black" on the Vizio when it comes out, rather than our more convenient Samsung ES8000. I ran "The Blacklist" for a few minutes and definitely can see the difference between 4K and 1080P. We sit about 7 feet from our screen.

I have noticed that vertical line others have discussed but not really in any meaningful content.

All in all, I'm very happy with the TV so far and its definitely checked all the boxes I needed. I was always going to get the outgoing Samsung Plasma but am happy with the larger screen, comparable blacks and lack of buzz.
Have you noticed any upscaling issues such as during sports programming? A few others wrote about footballs disappearing and such. We also watch mostly cable tv such as HGTV, Food Network, etc. Thanks for any thought as I am still holding out on buying this one, was mainly waiting for the CNET review although I believe they are reviewing the P60 only, not sure how well that will correlate to the P70...also wished they made this one bigger.
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post #4937 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Compeau View Post
What do you get when you do a speedtest on the Vizio?

If it's a much higher number, Verizon may be throttling Netflix (hooray for the death of Net Neutrality).
on the vizio in menu i went to network connection test and it say 29Mb/s
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post #4938 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by iluvwahoo View Post
Have you noticed any upscaling issues such as during sports programming? A few others wrote about footballs disappearing and such. We also watch mostly cable tv such as HGTV, Food Network, etc. Thanks for any thought as I am still holding out on buying this one, was mainly waiting for the CNET review although I believe they are reviewing the P60 only, not sure how well that will correlate to the P70...also wished they made this one bigger.
I haven't watched a lot of football on it yet - not into NFL and my college team had byes after I had calibrated the set. I should have a better answer after the Oregon State-Utah game tonight.

What sports I have watched on it (mostly soccer and a bit of football), I have not seen the disappearing football thing at all. My main problem was a blocky shadow that seemed to be across the grass/sky (fixed now and probably an XBox One pass-through issue) and the grass was a weird shade (also seems fixed since I adopted Googer's settings).

We are on Dish Network (Hopper) and I'm satisfied with the content although we don't watch that much TV on the P70 as it is in a dedicated media room upstairs, so not our everyday TV. It is mostly used for video games and then movies at the weekend, plus weekend sports events.
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post #4939 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 10:33 AM
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Well... I have an issue now guys.

Last night, I experienced that single line running across the TV as mentioned by some others on here earlier. As well as the top 1/5 of the screen updating late. This occurred right after I reset my Xbox One (all my video runs through my Xbox One). I tried a bunch of things, but turning the XBox One off then back on fixed it.

I got home from work and when I turned on my Xbox, the entire screen was messed up. Static, lines, color off, etc. I tried turning the Xbox on and off and the TV on and off and moving to HDMI 4, nothing. Eventually, rebooting the Xbox One did the trick.

Now, is this an issue with the TV or the Xbox? I believe I had heard some others in here having a similar issue. Then only thig that's changed recently is the TV, leading me to believe that's the issue.



If it is the TV, and its not something that's common... I'll have to get is replaced. The only question then is do I stick with the 55", or go bigger? (I couldn't go smaller at this point). I'm pretty sure any bigger would just be overkill though, and I am not sure about the lag times on the other TVs. And while the added viewing angle is nice, it won't matter for the next two years or so.

Also, with other people posting about their 55s with the exact same like leaking issues in the exact same areas, it makes me wonder if it is just common across the 55? Or if I could get lucky and have that fixed if its replaced.



Any suggestions? Does this seem like something bad enough to warrant a return?
How long is your HDMI cable? problems occur when an HDMI cable is too long OR too short (due to signal reflection). 6 feet (or 2 meter) cables seem to work best for me.
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post #4940 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 10:36 AM
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I haven't watched a lot of football on it yet - not into NFL and my college team had byes after I had calibrated the set. I should have a better answer after the Oregon State-Utah game tonight.
Ah, you're a Beaver. I'll be sure to root for them after my Hokies play tonight. I always liked Mike Riley.
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post #4941 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 10:38 AM
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@ Buzz, I tried measuring the "true" mll with my D3 last night, but couldn't get a reading. It must be under .001, below what my meter can read. I put up video black and pressed pause on my Oppo which essentially activated the black floor or mll of the display (instead of the led's shutting all the way off) with the pause bug up in the left hand corner. Since your Klein 10 can go waaaaaaay below that, I was wondering if you could attempt something similar. I tested this in cal. dark preset. I saw one of your previous post showing .005? Just curious. Thanks.

Ryan
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post #4942 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
Do you need to physically be in the TV to notice 8K?
You mean physically in the TV with a magnifying glass? 8K could be pretty sweet if they start building houses with massive OLED walls.

Back on topic though - I'm more than stoked that the 55 P is an IPS panel as viewing angles are going to be pretty important for my setup. I'm going to bite the bullet and buy one this week. Considering I'll be using it 50 percent as a TV and 50 percent of the time as a 4k monitor, I'm really hoping the 4:2:0 4K/60 chroma issue isn't that noticable. Will throw pics up from my DSLR once I buy it and mount it.
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speedtest

how do i get the address bar on the p series vizio so i can do a speedtest?
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post #4944 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 10:48 AM
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Watching up here in Wisconsin on a 138" screen let's just say that it was a really big play.
You're killing me, man.


What's this that A-Aron doesn't want to do sideline interviews any more?


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post #4945 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 10:55 AM
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how do i get the address bar on the p series vizio so i can do a speedtest?
It has a built-in speed test that you can access from the network settings menu.
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post #4946 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 10:57 AM
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Finally got to see one at BB. PQ looked amazing but mainly because they were streaming 4k. This thing is definitely not the thinnest tv I've seen being at 2.5 inches in depth. Looks huge compared to the Samsung 8550 at 1.5 inches. After analyzing other tvs theyre all mostly at 2.5 inches. I wish they couldve made it thinner as that's really my only gripe. There never seems to be the perfect tv. I'm also extremely picky so hey :-P
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post #4947 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 10:58 AM
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WOW

Can you please elaborate , what format, bit rate ? There is a free download " Mediainfo" that tells all about a video stream.
Have you tried other 4K. According to Vizio 4K MP4 is supposedly playable.

Thanks

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h.265 encoding in an MKV wrapper (though MP4 also works, as I tested a small 4K clip in an MP4). The bitrate is 27 mbps.

mkv wrapper, Matroska: 2.30 GiB, 12mn 14s, HEVC ([email protected]), AC-3, Overall bit rate: 26.9 mbps, 3840x2160 (16:9)
I tested a handful of files (all 4k) on thumb-drives last night. The only one that worked fully was the torrent-ed h.265 mkv Tears of Steel.

Big Buck Bunny video worked, but sound was very choppy and in and out.

One other .mkv file I found played sound, but no video.

ZERO 4k mp4's played for me. "File not supported"

Admittedly I was only able to conduct some half-ass testing as there was family over, so I will try to play around a little more tonight.

Codec info for Tears and Big Buck Bunny from VLC on the my computer (not hooked to the p60) all files played on the PC... though it could barely handle the 4k stuff, its old.
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Last edited by bpdepoch; 10-16-2014 at 11:02 AM.
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post #4948 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 10:58 AM
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I have been following this thread from day one and luckily for me, all day during work so I don't have to do too much catching up every day. I am pretty sure I haven't missed it, but has anyone, preferably one of the professional calibrators in this thread had a chance to compare the P70 to the P65? A wider viewing angle, although minimal, would be more preferable for me than the extra 5". I was simply wondering if anyone HAS verified the 65" panel has better viewing angles and if there was anything vastly different between it and the 70".
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post #4949 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cricma View Post
Finally got to see one at BB. PQ looked amazing but mainly because they were streaming 4k. This thing is definitely not the thinnest tv I've seen being at 2.5 inches in depth. Looks huge compared to the Samsung 8550 at 1.5 inches. After analyzing other tvs theyre all mostly at 2.5 inches. I wish they couldve made it thinner as that's really my only gripe. There never seems to be the perfect tv. I'm also extremely picky so hey :-P
I don't think it's possible to make a backlit set much thinner. If you want a super-thin TV, you need to go with inferior edge lighting (or wait for OLED).
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post #4950 of 18018 Old 10-16-2014, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bpdepoch View Post
I tested a handful of files (all 4k) on thumb-drives last night. The only one that worked fully was the torrent-ed h.265 mkv Tears of Steel.

Big Buck Bunny video worked, but sound was very choppy and in and out.

One other .mkv file I found played sound, but no video.

ZERO 4k mp4's played for me. "File not supported"

Admittedly I was only able to conduct some half-ass testing as there was family over, so I will try to play around a little more tonight.

Codec info for Tears and Big Buck Bunny from VLC on the my computer (not hooked to the p60) all files played on the PC... though it could barely handle the 4k stuff, its old.
Remember, it's more about the codec than the wrapper. If a 4K video isn't encoded in h.265, it won't play in the Vizio regardless of the container. I've confirmed that both MKV and MP4 work as wrappers of h.265 video.
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