***Official 2014 Vizio P Series Owner's Thread - Page 167 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4981 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Compeau View Post
Just that one torrent for Tears of Steel.
So I took a 1 minute LG G3 4K Video in mp4 and converted it in Handbrake Beta svn6442 to HEVC. What a shock! I'm used to compressing 2 Hr. movies in about 10 - 12 minutes using QuickSync. Even using x.264 I can do it in about real time.
Converting a miserable little 1 minute 30 fps mp4 4K video to HEVC took a flabbergasting 20 Minutes using medium preset RF20 quality with AC3 passthrough.
So, doing a typical 2 Hr. movie adjusting for 24 fps and widescreen would still take about 24 hrs. on my gaming laptop. This is with an i7-4810QM 4-core chip which settles at 3.1 GHz under full load.
So much for converting our 4K needs at home to a Vizio P compatible format. Vizio really needs to update the firmware to be able to play 4K video in H.264 format.
If my little cell phone can play it back with no problem, then Vizio P series certainly has enough processing power to do the same. Hopefully enough people will complain and they will respond in a positive manner. Fingers crossed!!!!
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post #4982 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 12:51 PM
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I've been following this thread for awhile now. I've been interested in a 65" 4k, was thinking Sony, XBR850, seems they are about few hundred between the two but seems the Vizio might be at least equal or a tad bit better then the Sony. On BB's review page, the Vizio was 5 out of 5 stars, Sony was 4.8 out of 5. I was wondering if anyone here has made the comparsion? Was planning on using the BB 10% coupon but expires in a couple of weeks. Perhaps someone might venture an opinion. Or was thinking maybe wait till the reference series arrives, if ever?

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post #4983 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
My bad for bringing it up in this thread, way OT, sorry guys, pls move past that.
There is no reason for you to apologize. I simply said that if someone is considering using Costco's AMEX card they should confirm that is has the extended warranty feature because there there was an AVS discussion about this a couple of years ago and someone claimed to have spoken to Costco and they said it could not be used. I don't have a Costco branded AMEX card so it makes no difference to me and I only wanted to offer a suggestion. Credit card companies are changing their features all of time on branded cards and they are not all the same. Perhaps at one time the Costco AMEX card did not have that feature and now do. I was wrong about the length of the extended warranty if you piggyback. It is a total of 5 years, currently. I can tell you this a few years ago I called AMEX and asked this question and I was told that they would honor an additional one year beyond the manufactures warranty and any extended warranties providing the previous warranties did not extend beyond 5 years. In other words you could have 6 years of coverage. That has obviously changed. There is a polite and classy way to correct someone who was only trying to help but not everyone understands that simple concept. Sorry for any confusion or misinformation.
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post #4984 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ahwig60 View Post
so could this vizio be defective, bitrate 29mb/s you say thats good, test video still low, so tv defective?
would is there anything i need to change in my cable box setting ?
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post #4985 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ahwig60 View Post
would is there anything i need to change in my cable box setting ?
No.
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post #4986 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post
I think eventually Netflix will raise the transfer rates as people see better quality 4K with WCG and HDR and wonder why their Netflix stream does not look as good.
I doubt that. Netflix will push tech that will let them reduce the transfer rates, because that boosts their bottom line. At one point they introduced encoding tech from a company called eyeIO who claimed to get equal or better quality from AVC at half the bit rate of other encoders (eyeIO's 1080p AVC at 5800 Kbps--which Netflix uses and used to call "Super HD"--was awarded the first THX streaming certification). When they introduced that, they cut their best quality 720p from 3600- to 3000 Kbps and their sole 1080p encode from 4800- to 3850 Kbps.

The coming "Ultraflix" service apparently uses 8 Mbps 2160p streams, half the bandwidth of Netflix's current maximum bit rate streams.

Joe and Jill Average will never be able to appreciate the difference between 1080p and 2160p at normal viewing distances from average sized LR and FR TVs and certainly won't be able to appreciate the difference between Netflix's current best quality 2160p and something better. Netflix isn't going to make any improvement that can only be perceived and appreciated by a tiny percentage of their customers.

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post #4987 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Compeau View Post
No.
how about the vizio tv setting?
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post #4988 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ahwig60 View Post
how about the vizio tv setting?
Nope, not that I can think of.
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post #4989 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Compeau View Post
Nope, not that I can think of.

with my computer i have that wired to the modem and get 50/50 maybe modem bad for wireless
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post #4990 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Compeau View Post
This is more than fast enough for Netflix 4K. I'd try that test video again, and report the results.

I'm guessing that Verizon is throttling Netflix.
Verizon and Netflix have a direct interconnection plan. FiOS vaulted 9 spots to hit number one on Netflix's September US ISP Speed Index. It may be that FiOS in his area isn't set up for more direct connection to Netflix's CDN yet.

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post #4991 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by billdag View Post
So I took a 1 minute LG G3 4K Video in mp4 and converted it in Handbrake Beta svn6442 to HEVC. What a shock! I'm used to compressing 2 Hr. movies in about 10 - 12 minutes using QuickSync. Even using x.264 I can do it in about real time.
Converting a miserable little 1 minute 30 fps mp4 4K video to HEVC took a flabbergasting 20 Minutes using medium preset RF20 quality with AC3 passthrough.
So, doing a typical 2 Hr. movie adjusting for 24 fps and widescreen would still take about 24 hrs. on my gaming laptop. This is with an i7-4810QM 4-core chip which settles at 3.1 GHz under full load.
So much for converting our 4K needs at home to a Vizio P compatible format. Vizio really needs to update the firmware to be able to play 4K video in H.264 format.
If my little cell phone can play it back with no problem, then Vizio P series certainly has enough processing power to do the same. Hopefully enough people will complain and they will respond in a positive manner. Fingers crossed!!!!
Can you imagine how long that would take on a processor that didn't have QuickSync!?
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post #4992 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
I doubt that. Netflix will push tech that will let them reduce the transfer rates, because that boosts their bottom line. At one point they introduced encoding tech from a company called eyeIO who claimed to get equal or better quality from AVC at half the bit rate of other encoders (eyeIO's 1080p AVC at 5800 Kbps--which Netflix uses and used to call "Super HD"--was awarded the first THX streaming certification). When they introduced that, they cut their best quality 720p from 3600- to 3000 Kbps and their sole 1080p encode from 4800- to 3850 Kbps.

The coming "Ultraflix" service apparently uses 8 Mbps 2160p streams, half the bandwidth of Netflix's current maximum bit rate streams.

Joe and Jill Average will never be able to appreciate the difference between 1080p and 2160p at normal viewing distances from average sized LR and FR TVs and certainly won't be able to appreciate the difference between Netflix's current best quality 2160p and something better. Netflix isn't going to make any improvement that can only be perceived and appreciated by a tiny percentage of their customers.
Curious where you came up with your 8mbps Ultraflix bitrate number?

A quick googling led me to this:
http://investorshangout.com/post/view?id=1918807

With this little tidbit:
"The latest interface allows the user control to adjust the desired bit rate used for streaming content. The added feature allows 4K UHD streaming maximum bit rate to be adjusted from 6mbps to 25mbps."
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post #4993 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SandstormGT View Post
compare the P70 to the P65? verified the 65" panel has better viewing angles and if there was anything vastly different between it and the 70".
Want to know this as well please.
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post #4994 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SandstormGT View Post
Can you imagine how long that would take on a processor that didn't have QuickSync!?
Would be the same. QuickSync is not enabled for HEVC encoding. Brilliant thought though. If Intel did update their QuickSync in the future to enable HEVC that would make a huge difference. I used X264 for several years with great results but always had to factor in 2 Hrs or more to encode a movie. All that changed vastly with QuickSync. Once Handbrake made it available, so you also had some adjustments over quality and speed, it made re-encoding/compressing videos/movies so so so much faster. With casual but fairly critical viewing I have been very pleased with QuickSync results and generally could not tell the difference between a 2 pass x264 encode compared to a 12 minute QuickSync. Surprisingly, file sizes did not vary appreciably either. I usually use a QP22 setting with a balanced QSV preset (Speed QSV preset made almost no difference on my computer).
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post #4995 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ahwig60 View Post
with my computer i have that wired to the modem and get 50/50 maybe modem bad for wireless
I think for streaming and particularly for this kind of streaming you should preferentially go wired.

Wireless AC, N, etc. may theoretically hit high peaks in bandwidth, but quite a few things (microwaves, phones, etc. ) can interfere with the connection and cause a retransmission of packets.

What you're after is throughput rather than just bandwidth. Doesn't help you if the highway can handle a 100 mile an hour car if your 100 mile an hour car has to go back to the beginning many times to restart just to get to where you want to go.

You want a stable and reliable connection to soothe the algorithms that kick in when they don't think the message (some part of the image) has gotten through and they cause the source to resend it. That is bad.

So if you have full confidence that nothing is interfering at any time, then you can trust that your wireless is fine. But if you have other emissions that may ding your wireless connection, then wired is the way to go. Less repetitive transmissions, more successful delivery of packets - good throughput.
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post #4996 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 01:45 PM
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APP Menu's Blurry

So i got my P55 yesterday and was so excited for it. I have played a lot of different things on it and it looks great. The Problem i am having is when i go to all of the APPs and look threw the menu's They are blurry. Does anyone know how to fix this? I can post a pic when i get home if i need to.
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post #4997 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bpdepoch View Post
Curious where you came up with your 8mbps Ultraflix bitrate number?

A quick googling led me to this:
http://investorshangout.com/post/view?id=1918807

With this little tidbit:
"The latest interface allows the user control to adjust the desired bit rate used for streaming content. The added feature allows 4K UHD streaming maximum bit rate to be adjusted from 6mbps to 25mbps."

I stand corrected. I find a quote of Ultraflix stating that they can stream 4K at "less than 8 Mbps"; the 8 Mbps part must have stuck in my mind. Netflix streams 4K at 4 different bit rates adaptive, being 8-, 10-, 12- and 15.6 Mbps; Ultraflix must have been bragging that they can do lower.
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post #4998 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by hernanu View Post
I think for streaming and particularly for this kind of streaming you should preferentially go wired.

Wireless AC, N, etc. may theoretically hit high peaks in bandwidth, but quite a few things (microwaves, phones, etc. ) can interfere with the connection and cause a retransmission of packets.

What you're after is throughput rather than just bandwidth. Doesn't help you if the highway can handle a 100 mile an hour car if your 100 mile an hour car has to go back to the beginning many times to restart just to get to where you want to go.

You want a stable and reliable connection to soothe the algorithms that kick in when they don't think the message (some part of the image) has gotten through and they cause the source to resend it. That is bad.

So if you have full confidence that nothing is interfering at any time, then you can trust that your wireless is fine. But if you have other emissions that may ding your wireless connection, then wired is the way to go. Less repetitive transmissions, more successful delivery of packets - good throughput.
For those that don't have a cat6 cable right at the tv, I wonder if some of the new Powerline wifi adapters would provide the throughout needed to keep the highest bitrates flowing and prevent degradation of the PQ.

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post #4999 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 01:58 PM
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My dl speed per the Vizio test is sure a lot less than my laptop. Wireless on both. 10.33Mb/s vs 36.
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post #5000 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanu View Post
I think for streaming and particularly for this kind of streaming you should preferentially go wired.

Wireless AC, N, etc. may theoretically hit high peaks in bandwidth, but quite a few things (microwaves, phones, etc. ) can interfere with the connection and cause a retransmission of packets.

What you're after is throughput rather than just bandwidth. Doesn't help you if the highway can handle a 100 mile an hour car if your 100 mile an hour car has to go back to the beginning many times to restart just to get to where you want to go.

You want a stable and reliable connection to soothe the algorithms that kick in when they don't think the message (some part of the image) has gotten through and they cause the source to resend it. That is bad.

So if you have full confidence that nothing is interfering at any time, then you can trust that your wireless is fine. But if you have other emissions that may ding your wireless connection, then wired is the way to go. Less repetitive transmissions, more successful delivery of packets - good throughput.
I agree with all of this, if you have not atleast tried running a CAT5/CAT6 from your router to your TV, even if it looks ugly for the time being, you should really try this. I work in the field and the company I work for does not support wireless networking with our software because of all the reasons stated above. Regardless of what wireless protocol you are on, there is not currently a more stable way to transport TCP/IP packets than through a wired connection.
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post #5001 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Verizon and Netflix have a direct interconnection plan. FiOS vaulted 9 spots to hit number one on Netflix's September US ISP Speed Index. It may be that FiOS in his area isn't set up for more direct connection to Netflix's CDN yet.
so what should i do next buy a Ethernet cable to go from modem to vizio?
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Not Sure what to do with the Apps Menu Since they are blurry

Hey Guys,

Not sure if someone already asked about the Apps and They two different app menus.

When i open either of the menus that display apps like youtube, amazon, netflix the actual menu is extremely blurry. Not really sure what to do to fix it.

I read over the posts to calibrate everything so im gonna try it all out tonight to see if that might help at all but i would think that since the menu's are built into the tv that they would display in 4K and be extremely sharp.

If anyone has any ideas on how to help or have noticed that theirs does the same thing and thats just the way the menu is then please let me know.

Also does anyone know how to update or check to see if there are updates from the web for the firmware on the P55?

Cheers!
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post #5003 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JStanton View Post
While I don't have my 70P yet, I've started encoding some of the Blender open movies in a format that I think (according to Vizio support chat, anyway) will play via the USB thumb drive.

Here's Tears of Steel, encoded from the raw YUV 4:2:0 sources in H.265 format. The AC3 (DD) soundtrack was also encoded from the raw FLAC files.

You can either use the magnet link or download the zipped .torrent file.

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:4E7A45A68A05849833B7117D8C5AF4 AFA190393D&dn=ts4k.h265.ac3.mkv&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftra cker.open bi tt or re n t.com%3a80&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.publicbt.com%3a8 0

I'm planning on doing Big Buck Bunny over the weekend. Feedback would be great so I know these are the right formats before dedicating all this encoding time on a wild goose chase.

- Jim

------

Here's the command line I used for the nerds out there:

ffmpeg -probesize 1G -analyzeduration 1G -i ts4k.y4m -i tearsofsteel-surround.flac -c:a ac3 -c:v libx265 -x265-params preset=slow -x265-params crf=18 -filter:v "scale=iw*min($width/iw\,$height/ih):ih*min($width/iw\,$height/ih), pad=$width:$height$width-iw*min($width/iw\,$height/ih))/2$height-ih*min($width/iw\,$height/ih))/2" ts4k.h265.ac3.mkv
Anyway we could get you to encode some more 265? I'm loving playing around with these 4k usb files... but having a hell of a time finding any content. Your tears of steel was the only thing I could get working properly (had a Big Buck Bunny with bad audio, I think the P likes AC3 better). Do you have any more high bitrate content that could be coded? Much appreciation would come your way!!
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post #5004 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billdag View Post
So I took a 1 minute LG G3 4K Video in mp4 and converted it in Handbrake Beta svn6442 to HEVC. What a shock! I'm used to compressing 2 Hr. movies in about 10 - 12 minutes using QuickSync. Even using x.264 I can do it in about real time.
Converting a miserable little 1 minute 30 fps mp4 4K video to HEVC took a flabbergasting 20 Minutes using medium preset RF20 quality with AC3 passthrough.
So, doing a typical 2 Hr. movie adjusting for 24 fps and widescreen would still take about 24 hrs. on my gaming laptop. This is with an i7-4810QM 4-core chip which settles at 3.1 GHz under full load.
So much for converting our 4K needs at home to a Vizio P compatible format. Vizio really needs to update the firmware to be able to play 4K video in H.264 format.
If my little cell phone can play it back with no problem, then Vizio P series certainly has enough processing power to do the same. Hopefully enough people will complain and they will respond in a positive manner. Fingers crossed!!!!
All of a sudden I hear beautiful music, thank you!

Converting 1 minute in HIQ mode takes me almost an hour, I have a 90 min 4K XAVC-S shot on a Sony AX100 4K camcorder, I plan to convert that when we go on a 7 day cruise in a few weeks.I will use the "auto off when finished" button, it will hopefully turn off the computer after 4 days or so!!

So the ability to play HEVC on the USB drive is useless as far as self produced or YOUTUBE downloaded material is concerned, it is essential to play native 4k MP4 files, as do Sony, Samsung LG and most likely others.

I had an exchange with a Vizio employee, asking if the TV would play 4K MP4 and was told yes. After telling him that it was not the case he said " well that is what my instructions tell me to say". So hopefully the inability is a bug that needs attention.

And as you pointed out the processing power is there, after all it is possible to decode MP4 4K streams from the likes of YOUTUBE via the internet!

Perhaps the main reason for me to buy the 70" Vizio is to watch my own stuff, at a reasonable cost.


Eugene
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post #5005 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 03:19 PM
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I had an exchange with a Vizio employee, asking if the TV would play 4K MP4 and was told yes.
It can, so long as it's encoded in h.265.
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post #5006 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpdepoch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JStanton View Post
While I don't have my 70P yet, I've started encoding some of the Blender open movies in a format that I think (according to Vizio support chat, anyway) will play via the USB thumb drive.

Here's Tears of Steel, encoded from the raw YUV 4:2:0 sources in H.265 format. The AC3 (DD) soundtrack was also encoded from the raw FLAC files.

You can either use the magnet link or download the zipped .torrent file.

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:4E7A45A68A05849833B7117D8C5AF4 AFA190393D&dn=ts4k.h265.ac3.mkv&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftra cker.open bi tt or re n t.com%3a80&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.publicbt.com%3a8 0

I'm planning on doing Big Buck Bunny over the weekend. Feedback would be great so I know these are the right formats before dedicating all this encoding time on a wild goose chase.

- Jim

------

Here's the command line I used for the nerds out there:

ffmpeg -probesize 1G -analyzeduration 1G -i ts4k.y4m -i tearsofsteel-surround.flac -c:a ac3 -c:v libx265 -x265-params preset=slow -x265-params crf=18 -filter:v "scale=iw*min($width/iw\,$height/ih):ih*min($width/iw\,$height/ih), pad=$width:$height$width-iw*min($width/iw\,$height/ih))/2$height-ih*min($width/iw\,$height/ih))/2" ts4k.h265.ac3.mkv
Anyway we could get you to encode some more 265? I'm loving playing around with these 4k usb files... but having a hell of a time finding any content. Your tears of steel was the only thing I could get working properly (had a Big Buck Bunny with bad audio, I think the P likes AC3 better). Do you have any more high bitrate content that could be coded? Much appreciation would come your way!!
@SeeMoreDigital , is this of any interest to you?
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post #5007 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Compeau View Post
It can, so long as it's encoded in h.265.
I see what you are saying, now I am scared.

Also other than a huge waste of time to convert from 264 to 265 the video quality will noticeable deteriorate.

Here is some first class 264 4K MP4 material to download and watch in 4K, or simply stream, deep blacks etc.



Eugene

Last edited by Eugene157; 10-16-2014 at 03:39 PM.
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post #5008 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mascior View Post
@ Buzz, I tried measuring the "true" mll with my D3 last night, but couldn't get a reading. It must be under .001, below what my meter can read. I put up video black and pressed pause on my Oppo which essentially activated the black floor or mll of the display (instead of the led's shutting all the way off) with the pause bug up in the left hand corner. Since your Klein 10 can go waaaaaaay below that, I was wondering if you could attempt something similar. I tested this in cal. dark preset. I saw one of your previous post showing .005? Just curious. Thanks.
Ryan
.005 was measured with dimming OFF. The dimming must have been shutting down the LED's on your test. When I do an ANSI test with dimming ON I get 0.000 for Black. The Klein K10A reads down to 0.00002.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jtl46 View Post
My dl speed per the Vizio test is sure a lot less than my laptop. Wireless on both. 10.33Mb/s vs 36.
Same here.

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post #5009 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 03:38 PM
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This thread will be a month old tomorrow and there are already over 5000 posts. That's amazing.
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post #5010 of 18017 Old 10-16-2014, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
I stand corrected. I find a quote of Ultraflix stating that they can stream 4K at "less than 8 Mbps"; the 8 Mbps part must have stuck in my mind. Netflix streams 4K at 4 different bit rates adaptive, being 8-, 10-, 12- and 15.6 Mbps; Ultraflix must have been bragging that they can do lower.
Now, that is interesting! It sounds impossibly low, yet I am reminded of what is possible right now with Mpeg4-AVC.
I have seen 2 Hr. movies in 1080P that looked surprisingly good yet were only 2GB in size (AAC stereo sound NOT 5.1 Dolby). That equates to a little over 2Mb/Sec so, 2160P having 4 times the detail, 8Mb/Sec is not unreasonable, especially considering that HEVC is 50% to 100% more efficient at compressing a video file.
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