***Official 2014 Vizio P Series Owner's Thread - Page 173 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5161 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackguyinatrade View Post
Hello all I'm new to this forum, and I'm interested actually in the p50 I put one on layway. It's going to be used for 4k 60hz gaming, 1080p 120hz gaming, ps4, watching blu rays and sports will this tv fit all my needs or do I just need to spend more money? I'm coming from a samsung hlt5087 which is a 50 inch led dlp. That tv is great but not so much now that I've built a monster PC and it's showing it's age(almost 8 years) thank you in advance

As long as you know the P series can't do [email protected] 4:4:4 you'll be ok. If you need that then you'll need to find a different TV/Monitor.


Sent from an system/360
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post #5162 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Good question. It might have something to do with varying input resolutions on the 70, and maybe the 60 and 50 as well. Do the thread a favor: The next time you see it, switch to some other program source and see if you are still getting it. Then switch back and tell us what you see.

Thanks for your observation.
So switching between inputs and sources does not make it go away. But I did notice that the line doesn't appear over the menu. If I bring the menu up, the menu itself is totally clean.
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post #5163 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
As long as you know the P series can't do [email protected] 4:4:4 you'll be ok. If you need that then you'll need to find a different TV/Monitor.
The new Panasonic AX850/900 FALD sets, arriving very shortly, have a Display Port input as well as HDMI 2.0 on all 4 inputs. It may well accept 60 fps 4K @ 4:4:4. On the other hand - the 65" AX900 lists for 3 times the Vizio P65!! Wonder how long that price will hold up (My guess - not long!).
Still, it may provide some competition for the forthcoming Vizio R series at least as far as performance goes.
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post #5164 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by AGuy01 View Post
Well, I just took the plunge and ordered the 60" from Best Buy. I'm a little nervous, but damn do I want a FALD set with low input lag. Sadly, the store is booked up on deliveries so it won't be here for a little while. If something goes from within the return period will they come and pick it up for you? The sales associate was cagey about that.

Now I just need to pick up a bigger entertainment stand and force buzzard to come down to the GB area to calibrate the Vizio when it arrives.
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post #5165 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 01:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by billdag View Post
The new Panasonic AX850/900 FALD sets, arriving very shortly, have a Display Port input as well as HDMI 2.0 on all 4 inputs. It may well accept 60 fps 4K @ 4:4:4. On the other hand - the 65" AX900 lists for 3 times the Vizio P65!! Wonder how long that price will hold up (My guess - not long!).
Still, it may provide some competition for the forthcoming Vizio R series at least as far as performance goes.
More on the Panasonic it might be way cool !
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...279478282.html
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post #5166 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gosse7dn View Post
Just a curious question. How are you liking your 50. I just bought mine and waiting for shipment? Also could you confirm what type of pannel it is? Thank you in advance
So far, it's fantastic at this price point! VA.

Calibration was a bit rough due to the 100% saturation issues and it seems all of the VA panels lean red. I'm gonna post my numbers soon after further confirmation.

Note out of the box, this TV is EXTREMELY bright.
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post #5167 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
Unless you were playing 4K video or photo or IPTV (Netflix or Hulu 4K ) to TV from the PS4 to TV it would be 1080p if that was your PS4 setting .

All 4K TV sets upscale automatically to the panels 4K resolution. LCD panels can only display native resolution .
Yea, I feel kinda dumb not realizing this. I was experimenting with the receiver, but now I realize the best move is to just let the receiver not touch the signal and bypass it through to the TV for the upscale.
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post #5168 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
What panel type were the Sony and Samsung FALD TVs in the 2014 shootout?

The P70 (and other sizes except the P55) are VA and deliver class-leading native contrast level at the cost of poor off-axis viewing performance.

To dismiss Buzzard767's informed and thoughtful comparison because of the results of other TVs in the 2014 VE Shootout is nonsense.

Regardless of what you are anyone else may say or think regarding past performance or more highly-acclaimed competitors performance, I believe it is now a foregone conclusion to the entire industry that Vizio has succeeded to pull a rabbit out of a hat with the P Series.

If you need wide viewing angles, go elsewhere (or possibly the P55), but if plasma-class black levels in a dark-room viewing environment (and only for a limited sweet-spot viewing cone) are a top priority, the non-55" P Series represents a breakthrough in LED/LCD TV technology (especially considering the price).
I was pointing out it's very unlikely that the P series has achieved plasma like picture quality. The one review that is out (rtings.com) clearly doesn't think the P60 comes close to the ST60 and F8500 according to its rating system. I think Vizio may have pulled a rabbit out of a hat in terms of matching the much more expensive Sony XBR-65X950B (it has 135 zones by the way and it's native black level suggest a VA panel) with its P series but I'm pretty sure the entire industry doesn't feel it has achieved plasma PQ even in terms of black levels with a screen that has a mix of light and dark areas. If you may recall imagic's praise was somewhat tempered for the P series when he attended Vizio's press junket because he didn't think it compared favorably to self-emissive displays - but I thought he was highly impressed overall.

I'm enthusiastic about the P series but lets be realistic about its ultimate performance.

And I was referring to Lankness, not Buzz. I guess you can say I was in a way dismissing his observations but I like to think I was just pointing out his observations are not likely to be shared by the so called experts. Ph8te was probably correct in that it wasn't necessary to point this out - darn those 4:00 a.m. posts. I have a feeling I'm going to be taken to the woodshed again by Ph8te.
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post #5169 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by EJ11 View Post
I was about to order a P50 yesterday but Costco removed it within the hour that I went to order. I'd rather not go through Vizio where shipping is $100 and returns come with a restocking fee (even though I have a 10% off coupon). Has anyone heard anything about Costco or Best Buy getting some in? I know someone mentioned the P50 wouldn't be stocked until January but how credible is that info?
Remember, there are two 50" P series models, the P502ui-B1 and the lower spec P502ui-B1E. Make sure you know which model you're odering from Cosco.

That source has backed off that claim somewhat as he claims limited supplies of the P502ui-B1 were sent to Amazon and Cosco. The bottom line is it appears you can order one directly from Vizio and Amazon has an estimated 3-4 weeks delivery time for the P502ui-B1 model.

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post #5170 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 01:48 PM
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Has anyone had an issue with sending audio back to their AVR when using the YouTube app? Receiver goes deaf when I switch to watching YouTube. Weird.
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post #5171 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackguyinatrade View Post
Hello all I'm new to this forum, and I'm interested actually in the p50 I put one on layway. It's going to be used for 4k 60hz gaming, 1080p 120hz gaming, ps4, watching blu rays and sports will this tv fit all my needs or do I just need to spend more money? I'm coming from a samsung hlt5087 which is a 50 inch led dlp. That tv is great but not so much now that I've built a monster PC and it's showing it's age(almost 8 years) thank you in advance

As long as you know the P series can't do [email protected] 4:4:4 you'll be ok. If you need that then you'll need to find a different TV/Monitor.


Sent from an system/360
I'm sorry I'm not sure what that meansensive:
I just want to game 4k 60fps and have it look great. What model tv do I have to get to do that and do it very well without breaking the bank
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post #5172 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 02:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Blackguyinatrade View Post
I'm sorry I'm not sure what that meansensive:
I just want to game 4k 60fps and have it look great. What model tv do I have to get to do that and do it very well without breaking the bank
I believe the issue is the P model Vizio does not support YcBCr 4K (2160p) 4:4:4 HDMI at 60Hz only at 30Hz
I believe it does support YcBCr 4:4:2 4K (1080p) at 60Hz

It's a HDMI chip thing some sets have the same limitations some do not . It may or may not be an issue for you
it can be in PC editing or with certain content with 4:4:4 chroma @ 2160p/60 (4K) for some folks

1080p picture and game would 4:4:4 chroma subsampling potential at 1080p/60 just not at 4K (2160p)
HDTV most Blue Ray,most IPTV and DVD are 4:4:2 at this time anyway so it may not be an issue at this time for
most folks . IOW For normal TV ,IPTV,BD,DVD use and console gaming it shouldn't be an issue for now


Quote:
"The PS4 will be enabled for 4K resolution for videos, the interface, and movies through Hulu or Netflix, but it will not have the capability to display games in 4K.

"The PS4 supports 4K output, but only for photos and videos; not games. PS4 games do not work on 4K."
http://www.ign.com/wikis/playstation..._4K_Resolution
Most PC and some game consoles can output full RGB or YcBCr 4:4:4 - 0-255 Chroma subsampling .


OTOH *some Blue Ray players,DVD players and Blue Ray with mastered from 4K disc can output YcBCr 4:4:4.
http://manuals.playstation.net/docum...uperwhite.html


On PC you have to use your GPU GUI to set the output chroma subsampling or RGB profile .


Some TV's only support full RGB and YcBCr 4:4:4. when they see a PC or Game console on HDMI.
Cheap TV's and older TV may only support Limited RGB and YcBCr 4:4:2.

Most Sony's support Full RGB and YcBCr 4:4:4 on all HDMI for anything that sends it .




http://manuals.playstation.net/docum...fullrange.html

http://manuals.playstation.net/docum...uperwhite.html

http://manuals.playstation.net/docum...deepcolor.html

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post #5173 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
What panel type were the Sony and Samsung FALD TVs in the 2014 shootout?

The P70 (and other sizes except the P55) are VA and deliver class-leading native contrast level at the cost of poor off-axis viewing performance.

To dismiss Buzzard767's informed and thoughtful comparison because of the results of other TVs in the 2014 VE Shootout is nonsense.
Why is Buzz's review hold more to it then what anyone else has to say?

Why should we dismiss rtings.com review. If they thought the P series was at the level of VT60 they would sure have mentioned it and it would have been an extremely bold statement that would have caught a ton of attention. If you look how they scored the P verse other mid level 4K TVs and even a 1080p TV the P series did not even take every category, as a matter of fact it did not come in first in most of the scoring.

But over and over in this thread I keep reading people are buying this TV because 1 person claimed it was as good as his VT60 and even had better contrast levels.

The rtings.com results definitely say otherwise and I am not even brining my own thoughts into this one.

To me, the number 1 reason to buy this 4K TV over another 4K TV in it's same price range is due to FALD that you don't have to worry about flashlighting and clouding. I would not be buying this TV wanting a reference panel and thinking I am getting one because of one persons comparison review.

The VT60 can achieve contrast ratios of 12,000:1 with actual content on the screen. Of course a FALD TV is going to look great when the screen is mostly black and can actually turn of zones but how many scenes in movie will have so much black that a 64 zone panel will be able to complete shut zones off.

With content on the screen I believe the P's contrast ratio was measured around 3-4000:1.

My post is not meant towards you fafrd, you have been a great asset to this thread. Just trying to keep some things real here.

Where the heck is that CNET review by the way!

Last edited by eric3316; 10-18-2014 at 03:10 PM.
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post #5174 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by EJ11 View Post
Has anyone heard anything about Costco or Best Buy getting some in? I know someone mentioned the P50 wouldn't be stocked until January but how credible is that info?
Just came back from Best Buy and saw the Vizio placard for their 2014 lineup. It lists all sizes for the P series EXCEPT the 50 inch model. It seems BB will not carry the 50in model.
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post #5175 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by hernanu View Post
The cable box takes the signal as it comes in (480p, 720p, 1080i) and simply rebroadcasts it to its output. That lets the Vizio do the upscaling of a signal untouched by other processing.

The cable box receives the signal as a compressed MPEG2 stream, decodes it to create a bit raster and sends that to the downstream device for whatever processing it's going to do. There are manipulations which might better be done by the device decoding the MPEG source; scaling might be one of them. There was a time when passing the compressed source around between devices over Firewire was thought to be the way--there were FCC regs requiring every cable STB to support that--but HDMI came along and quashed that. (Passing MPEG around required connections capable of 20 Mbps whereas passing the decoded picture around need 2 Gbps, about 100 times as fast)

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post #5176 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
And 4,500 are either immaterial, not relevant, questions that have been asked before, computer & Internet questions and my favorite; "I'm getting mine tomorrow" or I just ordered mine.
This thread isn't any different from other TV owners thread. It's just there is a hell of a lot more of it than usual. The same questions are asked and the enthusiasm spills over for a new purchase. I'm just glad it isn't 10 pages a day anymore!
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post #5177 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 03:15 PM
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so will I a M series 70 inch have less flaws on it to see a better picture than the 70 inch 70 P series 4K
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post #5178 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 03:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackguyinatrade View Post
I'm sorry I'm not sure what that meansensive:
I just want to game 4k 60fps and have it look great. What model tv do I have to get to do that and do it very well without breaking the bank
Vizio P does not support 2160p (4K ) YCbCr 4:4:4 Chroma sub sampling at 2160p/60 only 2160p/30

It supports YCbCr 4:4:4 and Full RGB at 1080p/60 (2K)

It may be an issue with *some folks using a 2160p/60 YCbCr 4:4:4 capable PC for 4K editing or *some 4K PC Gaming at 2160p/60 full RGB or 2160p/60 YCbCr 4:4:4 settings that takes a real strong decently expensive video card most PC's , mid level Video cards and PC's with IGPU can't do that.

**The TV should support 2160p/60 gaming at std RGB or YCbCr 4:4:2 just fine .***
(YCbCr 4:4:2 and STD RGB is same color space as most Blue ray ) so it can look good .

It will be a future issue with expanded color in Rec. 2020 spec at 60hz for 4K/UHD. content that isn't here for broadcast 4K BD or IPTV yet it may be some years away however your set will still work as it does now.

PS 3/4 don't game in 4K anyway you will be playing in upscaled 1080p Vizio P should be fine

PS4 supports 4K video and photo only it should work fine at 2160p/60 YCbCr 4:4:2 or STD. RGB on the Vizio P

HDTV ,DVD ,(most Blue Ray) are all 1080p YCbCr 4:4:2 HDMI no wories there
It's an HDMI chip thing other sets have the same limitations some do not .

IOW for HDTV TV ,streaming , DVD/BD , console gaming and most PC uses it's not an issue

Quote:
"The PS4 will be enabled for 4K resolution for videos, the interface, and movies through Hulu or Netflix, but it will not have the capability to display games in 4K."

In the same interview where Yoshida revealed more about the PS4's 3D capabilities he also stated:

"The PS4 supports 4K output, but only for photos and videos; not games. PS4 games do not work on 4K."
http://www.ign.com/wikis/playstation..._4K_Resolution

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post #5179 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 03:34 PM
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so will I a M series 70 inch have less flaws on it to see a better picture than the 70 inch 70 P series 4K

It's the size of the set that is making the flaws more noticeable (as it was said before). 70" will always look "worse" than your 4x" if the source you are displaying isn't any good.


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post #5180 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 03:35 PM
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Firmware 1.0.4.1

Love the contrast and dark blacks of my P70, however I am concerned if I connect it to the internet the new firmware will be pushed. Is there really no way to refuse an update?
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post #5181 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 03:37 PM
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Love the contrast and dark blacks of my P70, however I am concerned if I connect it to the internet the new firmware will be pushed. Is there really no way to refuse an update?

There is no way. There hasn't been a report of a firmware update since the 3/4 reports (maybe less) weeks ago.


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post #5182 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Where the heck is that CNET review by the way!
And a full review from reviewed.com!! The preview article was nice, but A FULL review would be even better.
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post #5183 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
Where the heck is that CNET review by the way!
Where in the heck is there any cnet television review? It has been roughly one review per month for the last 3 months. I understand the initial delay since their lab was being remodeled but that was in the summer. Hopefully what seems to be a delay means Vizio finally furnished the P65 and Katzmaier is reviewing both the P65 and P55 (purchased by cnet) and will submit both at once.

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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackguyinatrade View Post
I'm sorry I'm not sure what that meansensive:
I just want to game 4k 60fps and have it look great. What model tv do I have to get to do that and do it very well without breaking the bank
Vizio P does not support 2160p (4K ) YCbCr 4:4:4 Chroma sub sampling at 2160p/60 only 2160p/30

It supports YCbCr 4:4:4 and Full RGB at 1080p/60 (2K)

It may be an issue with *some folks using a 2160p/60 YCbCr 4:4:4 capable PC for 4K editing or *some 4K PC Gaming at 2160p/60 full RGB or 2160p/60 YCbCr 4:4:4 settings that takes a real strong decently expensive video card most PC's , mid level Video cards and PC's with IGPU can't do that.

**The TV should support 2160p/60 gaming at std RGB or YCbCr 4:4:2 just fine .***
(YCbCr 4:4:2 and STD RGB is same color space as most Blue ray ) so it can look good .

It will be a future issue with expanded color in Rec. 2020 spec at 60hz for 4K/UHD. content that isn't here for broadcast 4K BD or IPTV yet it may be some years away however your set will still work as it does now.

PS 3/4 don't game in 4K anyway you will be playing in upscaled 1080p Vizio P should be fine

PS4 supports 4K video and photo only it should work fine at 2160p/60 YCbCr 4:4:2 or STD. RGB on the Vizio P

HDTV ,DVD ,(most Blue Ray) are all 1080p YCbCr 4:4:2 HDMI no wories there
It's an HDMI chip thing other sets have the same limitations some do not .

IOW for HDTV TV ,streaming , DVD/BD , console gaming and most PC uses it's not an issue

Quote:
"The PS4 will be enabled for 4K resolution for videos, the interface, and movies through Hulu or Netflix, but it will not have the capability to display games in 4K."

In the same interview where Yoshida revealed more about the PS4's 3D capabilities he also stated:

"The PS4 supports 4K output, but only for photos and videos; not games. PS4 games do not work on 4K."
http://www.ign.com/wikis/playstation..._4K_Resolution
I have a gtx 970 which has hdmi 2.0 I was planning on Sli'ing them so a really high end PC so I was hoping for 4k at 60hz, basically I want to 4k game at 60 fps:confounded:
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post #5185 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 04:06 PM
 
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Is it worth picking up this model then a M series. I'm looking around for a good tv for a affordable price.
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post #5186 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
Why is Buzz's review hold more to it then what anyone else has to say? Could it be that I'm the only person in the world who has had the P60 side by side with a VT60 and an F8000? Why yes it could.
Why should we dismiss rtings.com review. I never heard of rting until this thread, and he didn't even know there were different panels... Jeesh. If they thought the P series was at the level of VT60 they would sure have mentioned it and it would have been an extremely bold statement that would have caught a ton of attention. If you look how they scored the P verse other mid level 4K TVs and even a 1080p TV the P series did not even take every category, as a matter of fact it did not come in first in most of the scoring.
But over and over in this thread I keep reading people are buying this TV because 1 person claimed it was as good as his VT60 and even had better contrast levels. I refer you to the first red line.
The rtings.com results definitely say otherwise and I am not even brining my own thoughts into this one.
To me, the number 1 reason to buy this 4K TV over another 4K TV in it's same price range is due to FALD that you don't have to worry about flashlighting and clouding. I would not be buying this TV wanting a reference panel and thinking I am getting one because of one persons comparison review.
The VT60 can achieve contrast ratios of 12,000:1 with actual content on the screen. Contrast is not measurable with content on the screen. It's only done with patterns. Of course a FALD TV is going to look great when the screen is mostly black and can actually turn of zones but how many scenes in movie will have so much black that a 64 zone panel will be able to complete shut zones off.
With content on the screen I believe the P's contrast ratio was measured around 3-4000:1.
My post is not meant towards you fafrd, you have been a great asset to this thread. Just trying to keep some things real here.
Where the heck is that CNET review by the way!
Ahhh Eric. I spanked you once and you can't get enough attempted retribution. Do you really think you're going to rough up a 12 year Marine? You don't know a damn thing about calibration yet you try belittling someone who has 20 grand in calibration equipment and years of experience with both LCD and PDP flat panels. Really?




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Originally Posted by jhck66 View Post
This thread isn't any different from other TV owners thread. It's just there is a hell of a lot more of it than usual. The same questions are asked and the enthusiasm spills over for a new purchase. I'm just glad it isn't 10 pages a day anymore!
Amen

Buzz
THX Certified Level II Video Calibrator



 
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post #5187 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 04:15 PM
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why can't I get 4k trying to watch blacklist In 4K ON Netflix I upgraded to the 11.99 I'm getting 29 MP s wireless modem Verizon FiOS 50 50
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post #5188 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by squadRAWR View Post
Is it worth picking up this model then a M series. I'm looking around for a good tv for a affordable price.

"Affordable" to who? We already have one report of the P series being worth it over the M series from an owner. Rtngs gave it a good review over the M series as well. It's kind of hard to assign a value to something as we ll have different views on that subject matter. We also all have different values of "good". Is the m series good, yes, is the p series good yes, is it worth the price difference? Only you can asked that question for most in this thread the answer would be yes. There are plenty of m series owners who are happy and won't look at this years P series as well.


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post #5189 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Ahhh Eric. I spanked you once and you can't get enough attempted retribution. Do you really think you're going to rough up a 12 year Marine? You don't know a damn thing about calibration yet you try belittling someone who has 20 grand in calibration equipment and years of experience with both LCD and PDP flat panels. Really?
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post #5190 of 18017 Old 10-18-2014, 04:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Blackguyinatrade View Post
I have a gtx 970 which has hdmi 2.0 I was planning on Sli'ing them so a really high end PC so I was hoping for 4k at 60hz, basically I want to 4k game at 60 fps:confounded:
Simple ......You can game at 2160p/60 and RGB std or limited just not RGB full color space .

Or you can do other things at 2160P /60 YCbCr 4:4:2 Chroma sub sampling just not 2160p/60 4:4:4

With all that computer it almost seems a waste if you don't understand some Chroma sub sampling and RGB color space with that in mind it won't be an issue for you anyway just set your PC to 2160p /60 RGB std or limited or 2160P /60 YCbCr 4:4:2 and call it a day it should still work fine Your alternatives would be a 4K PC monitor or a 4K Sony,Samsung LG ,or Panasonic that supports: 2160p/60 4:4:4 Chroma subsampling and/or 2160p/60 Full RGB.
That being said the Vizio P still looks like a lot of TV for the money .




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling

Last edited by tubetwister; 10-18-2014 at 04:55 PM.
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