***Official 2014 Vizio P Series Owner's Thread - Page 186 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5551 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phases View Post
@fafrd - Well, we watched a bit of iron man or something on a 55" P-Series and the motion, especially panning scenes, the objects were NOT smoothly moving across the screen. I suspect it was not set up correctly because as sensitive as I may be to it, that junk was rough! Me the wife both instantly were put off.

Then I was further confused by learning the 55" had a different (better?) panel than the 70", and I have yet to see one of those in person.. so I'm just real nervous about pulling the trigger.

@dandirk - This happened at least once so far since I've been watching it around launch time. Came back in a day or two.
You may want to go back and review post #5404 that buzz submitted. He mentions that there is around 700 lines of motion resolution without Clear Action engaged so hopefully Vizio works out the "causes a vague darker-than-a-white-background fairly large rectangle to appear on the right side of the screen on my P60" bug when it's turned on since it sounds like the backlight can more than compensate for the dimmer picture it causes.

As for judder, which is what I believe you're noticing, again per buzz, you'll need to engage SME and unfortunately you may not like the SOE. Some have indicated it's less noticeable on low and some think it's the same regardless of the level you choose. I'm hoping to my eyes it the former.

It should be noted the M series had 300 lines of motion resolution (dejudder off) per Katzmaier's review for a reference.

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post #5552 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Clear Action does not cause SOE AFAICT; it's Smooth Motion Effect that does that, even when set at low. Turning CA on causes a vague darker-than-a-white-background fairly large rectangle to appear on the right side of the screen on my P60. (I think that there are pictures of this in this thread somewhere but I can't find them). Turning the television off can make it go away but not always and it always seems to come back. I choose not to use it until such time that they hopefully fix the problem in a firmware release.

I believe we're miscommunicating. My original post was referring to 'Clear Motion' (frame interpolation) not 'Clear Action' (scanning backlight).

Is it 'Smooth Motion' or 'Clear Motion'

As posted by Buzz, Clear Action does result in improved motion performance (50% better) but if it is still resulting in the famous 'rectangle' that is a problem. Sounds like all of the backlight except that rectangle are being properly blinked (so that specific zone appears brighter than the ret of the screen). Hopefully Vizio can get that fixed with a firmware release.
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post #5553 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phases View Post
@fafrd - Well, we watched a bit of iron man or something on a 55" P-Series and the motion, especially panning scenes, the objects were NOT smoothly moving across the screen. I suspect it was not set up correctly because as sensitive as I may be to it, that junk was rough! Me the wife both instantly were put off.

Then I was further confused by learning the 55" had a different (better?) panel than the 70", and I have yet to see one of those in person.. so I'm just real nervous about pulling the trigger.

@dandirk - This happened at least once so far since I've been watching it around launch time. Came back in a day or two.

The P55 has an IPS panel which is superior for off-angle viewing but inferior for dark-room viewing compared to all of the other sizes (which are VA panels).

If you watch in a dark room, you should probably avoid the P55. If you watch in a dim room or a bright room, that P55 would probably be the best Vizio P for you.

On motion, if you want it to stutter less you should turn Clear Motion (or Smooth Motion, whatever Vizio calls frame interpolation) ON. You should also turn Clear Action ON to get the best motion performance, but some owners have reported a bug with Clear Action that Vizio has apparently not yet fixed...
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post #5554 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
I believe we're miscommunicating. My original post was referring to 'Clear Motion' (frame interpolation) not 'Clear Action' (scanning backlight).

Is it 'Smooth Motion' or 'Clear Motion'

As posted by Buzz, Clear Action does result in improved motion performance (50% better) but if it is still resulting in the famous 'rectangle' that is a problem. Sounds like all of the backlight except that rectangle are being properly blinked (so that specific zone appears brighter than the ret of the screen). Hopefully Vizio can get that fixed with a firmware release.
Smooth Motion Effect (SME) = Frame Interpolation

At least you didn't have your head in a hole like me when I was referencing DSE with SOE.

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post #5555 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by venus933 View Post
Smooth Motion Effect (SME) = Frame Interpolation

At least you didn't have your head in a hole like me when I was referencing DSE with SOE.

Yeah, really - too many friggin' acronyms in this hobby

So in Vizio's parlance:

Smooth Motion = Frame interpolation (and there is no such thing as 'Clear Motion') and

Clear Action = Scanning Backlight (Black Frame Insertion).


Clear Action will only really be effective if Smooth Motion is also enabled.

The settings of Low Medium and High for Smooth Motion are probably al equivalent for 60fps content (they all double the framerate to 120Hz with frame interpolation).

The three settings for Clear Action are probably more meaningful when watching 24fps content. They many introduce more and more Soap Opera Effect, for example something like the following:

Smooth Motion OFF: 11111222223333344444 (24fps True Cinema 5:5 pulldown)
Smooth Motion LOW: 111AA222BB333CC444DD (24fps increased to 48fps using 3:2 pulldown)
Smooth Motion MED: 11aAw22bBx33cCy44dDz (24 fps increased to ~96fps)
Smooth Motion HIGH: 1qaAw2rbBx3scCy4tdDz (24 fps increased to a full 120fps - the maximum possible on the P)

This is pure speculation on my part but someone playing a blueray with some fast action scenes that stutter with Smooth Motion OFF could try the other settings and let us know what they see.

Multiple motion interpolation on an LCD panel with 120Hz native refresh rate from 60fps source material makes no sense. Either the frame interpolation is off (and so displaying 60fps material with frame repeat) or it is on (and displaying at 120fps through frame interpolation).
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post #5556 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 05:45 PM
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Thanks all! Sorry for the delay.. I dozed of with pounding headache.

Looks like all my pressing Vizio questions have been answered. Looks like I'm down to just making a decision.

..... and waiting for them to get back in stock if going with Vizio.
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post #5557 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 05:49 PM
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Ok;
No fact based response, I did not buy any 3.5mm cable.
Came home, looked at the back and saw no IR input jack
Looked at owners manual, http://cdn.vizio.com/documents/downl...M_P552uiB2.pdf
Quote:
REMOTE SENSOR & POWER INDICATOR When using the remote, aim it directly at this sensor
The power indicator flashes on when the TV turns on, then goes out after several seconds
Pointing remotes at a device seems so early 2000's to me and quaint, and having to use a IR emitter....ugh...
I'll drop a email to Vizio support on the IP control for iRule, but that won't solve this.
My AVR and Cable Box have 3.5mm IR plugs, curious why Vizio skimps on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice View Post
On that same note, do the P series TVs have IP control? Would be great if you could use iRule or Roomie to control without needing an IR blaster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
Can't find an IP remote app for Vizio TVs (though I see some IR remote apps which require that you device have a built-in IR emitter). IP remote control seems like something they could add with a firmware update; TiVo did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
Quick Q:
I got a 55" p series, does it have a 3.5mm IR input in back for seamless remote control, or do you need to put a IR emitter in front?

I'm shopping now and will buy a 3.5mm cable if there is input for it on rear.
(I'm using a harmony 890)


Via Mikes brain/thumb interface, LLAP
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post #5558 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Clear Action will only really be effective if Smooth Motion is also enabled.
This isn't the case. Clear Action helps with all content, providing a cleaner picture when there's fast movement on screen.
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post #5559 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 06:13 PM
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Can Clear Action be enabled even with the low latency game mode? And are the darkened rectangles from Clear Action assumed to be normal operating behavior at this point until a firmware update is released? I'd like to know if I should contact the store or manufacturer if I see it.
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post #5560 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AGuy01 View Post
Can Clear Action be enabled even with the low latency game mode? And are the darkened rectangles from Clear Action assumed to be normal operating behavior at this point until a firmware update is released? I'd like to know if I should contact the store or manufacturer if I see it.
Yes CA can be enabled independently of GLL.

Regarding CA causing darker rectangles, that's somewhat of an unknown issue since not all sets are affected. My P70, for example, has never had such issues with CA enabled... It affects enough, though, that it's hard to just discount every instance of it as defective sets and also subjectively feels to me (disclosure - I'm a software engineer, though not for any kind of firmware or device-level software like the logic controlling this obviously is ) like it's a bug of some sort that's probably fixable via a firmware update.
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post #5561 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
Ok;
No fact based response, I did not buy any 3.5mm cable.
Came home, looked at the back and saw no IR input jack
Looked at owners manual, http://cdn.vizio.com/documents/downl...M_P552uiB2.pdf


Pointing remotes at a device seems so early 2000's to me and quaint, and having to use a IR emitter....ugh...
I'll drop a email to Vizio support on the IP control for iRule, but that won't solve this.
My AVR and Cable Box have 3.5mm IR plugs, curious why Vizio skimps on that.
I utilize iRule as well...however, no dice with Vizio as they do not release there IP protocols.
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post #5562 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 07:23 PM
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This isn't the case. Clear Action helps with all content, providing a cleaner picture when there's fast movement on screen.
I have the 50 and don't notice any improvement. I had my wife turn it on and off while I looked away and we couldn't tell on the Dark Knight. Then did the same on the pc and we both saw flickering when it was on.
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post #5563 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Vinnces View Post
My local Best Buy finally got the 65" up for display but they are running there crappy ads on it. Couldn't even tell it was the P series until I checked the price tag 3 times. Doesn't help that it's not running 4k content and makes it look like any other 1080p Vizio from a distance. The family and I can't still make up our mind on either the 70" P series or Samsung's 65" HU8550.
I've had the Sammy and it has better pq than the VizP to me, of course for the price.
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post #5564 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Compeau View Post
This isn't the case. Clear Action helps with all content, providing a cleaner picture when there's fast movement on screen.

With frame repeat, Clear Action alone does very little.

On true 120fps content (for example from a video game), Clear Action alone will halve persistence and double motion performance (to 240Hz effective, or 4.2ms persistence).

On 60fps content (for example OTA sports), Clear Action alone will reduce effective persistence by 25% (to 12.5ms or ~80Hz Effective).

On 24fps content (for example Blueray) being shown in True Cinema mode (5:5 pulldown), Clear Action alone will do very little and will only reduce effective persistence by 10% (to 37.5ms or ~26.7Hz Effective).

Soap Opera Effect only really applies to 24fps cinema content. 60Hz sports or even Soap Operas are already 'Soap Opera' speed and so the effect of Smooth Motion should only improve the smoothness of that already-fast video. When frame interpolation is introduced to 24fps content, it speeds up the motion and makes it look like a 'Soap Opera' (which is already 60fps OTA video).

I don't think, anyone has ever complained about Frame Interpolation introducing SOE to a Soap Opera.

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post #5565 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 07:54 PM
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Nvidia updated their drivers today and now I can get [email protected] 4:2:0. I am happier because prior I could only get [email protected] Now I only have to watch Directv and think about how much better the sony did for clarity, detail, color and motion. Damn wish I didn't want to save the $500.


However, the FALD is phenomenal for me and beats the sony on darks.
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post #5566 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by traumadisaster View Post
Nvidia updated their drivers today and now I can get [email protected] 4:2:0. I am happier because prior I could only get [email protected] Now I only have to watch Directv and think about how much better the sony did for clarity, detail, color and motion. Damn wish I didn't want to save the $500.


However, the FALD is phenomenal for me and beats the sony on darks.
I have direct tv and have no problem with the motion clarity detail or now that I have finished my calibration color. I've had hands on experience with both and I can't really see why you would be so disappointed.
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post #5567 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Compeau View Post
This isn't the case. Clear Action helps with all content, providing a cleaner picture when there's fast movement on screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by traumadisaster View Post
I have the 50 and don't notice any improvement. I had my wife turn it on and off while I looked away and we couldn't tell on the Dark Knight. Then did the same on the pc and we both saw flickering when it was on.

Other than dimming the picture and adding that dark rectangle on the right, I can't see what effect it's having on my P60 and couldn't tell how it was improving anything on the P55 I had either.
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post #5568 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 08:33 PM
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Hmm. I noticed a big difference when playing Destiny, and also a subtler improvement when watching Blu-Rays.

Then again, I can also tell the difference in framerate of games at a glance, so maybe I'm just more sensitive to it.
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post #5569 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 11:51 PM
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I stopped in Best Buy yesterday to order the 70" Vizio P Series TV. They didn't have any in stock at the store, or any Best Buy store in Arizona. They also didn't have any on hand in the warehouse. It also showed that none were on order or expected to be received. I sure hope Best Buy doesn't decide to NOT carry this TV. They have it listed on their web site! I have $2900 in Best Buy credit (gift cards from a faulty 58" Panasonic Plasma they couldn't repair / glad I had the Black Tie Protection Plan).

Has anyone been able to get the 70" Vizio P Series TV from Best Buy? I can't imagine they wouldn't carry that TV! They had the 65", but I want the 70".
**UPDATE** 70" Vizio P Series TV is no longer available on the Best Buy web site. I'm hoping this is just temporary **UPDATE**
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post #5570 of 18026 Old 10-22-2014, 11:54 PM
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A small thing, but the stand on my P60 is far more stable than the one that was on my P55. Could be that I tightened the screws by hand when I installed the stand on the P55 while the Best Buy delivery kid did it with a power driver when he attached the stand to the P60. I had to carefully position my Xbox One and Xbox 360 Kinects on the top of my P55 to keep it from leaning to one side or the other. Not on my P60--its stand is rock solid .

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post #5571 of 18026 Old 10-23-2014, 12:01 AM
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**UPDATE** 70" Vizio P Series TV is no longer available on the Best Buy web site. I'm hoping this is just temporary **UPDATE**

Amazon has it in stock and Vizio's site is taking orders for it so I wouldn't worry too much. On Vizio's site it's marked "Top Seller" as is the 50" so maybe those are the most popular models.
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post #5572 of 18026 Old 10-23-2014, 12:37 AM
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Anyone know why my tv loses signal when the channel is lower than 720p ?

This issue makes it so that i cant use comcast on demand.
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post #5573 of 18026 Old 10-23-2014, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Vinnces View Post
My local Best Buy finally got the 65" up for display but they are running there crappy ads on it. Couldn't even tell it was the P series until I checked the price tag 3 times. Doesn't help that it's not running 4k content and makes it look like any other 1080p Vizio from a distance. The family and I can't still make up our mind on either the 70" P series or Samsung's 65" HU8550.
My bestbuy has the 4k demo content on it. Should be in other stores soon depending on when they're teams receive the content. Demo includes a 4k football demo with WR. stevie johnson doing football drills.
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post #5574 of 18026 Old 10-23-2014, 04:53 AM
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A small thing, but the stand on my P60 is far more stable than the one that was on my P55. Could be that I tightened the screws by hand when I installed the stand on the P55 while the Best Buy delivery kid did it with a power driver when he attached the stand to the P60. I had to carefully position my Xbox One and Xbox 360 Kinects on the top of my P55 to keep it from leaning to one side or the other. Not on my P60--its stand is rock solid .
Could you post dimensions of the stand, length and width and any idea if the stand on the 70 inch is same size.
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post #5575 of 18026 Old 10-23-2014, 05:06 AM
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so you guys are saying that when clear action is on you can see on the right side of the screen being darker than the left side?

i have a p60 and i swear when im looking at the screen the right side looks darker than the left just a tad bit i can tell something is up with the right side of my screen but dont know what is causing it..

but if you guys are saying it caused by clear action being on, im going to take clear action off today...

also what is up with updates on this tv? like where do we look for information on upcoming updates and other information?
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post #5576 of 18026 Old 10-23-2014, 05:52 AM
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New UHD specs. How does the P series hold up?

Credit to Sound and Vision for the update.

CEA Refines UHD Definition
By Mark Fleischmann • Posted: Oct 22, 2014 • Published: Oct 21, 2014


The Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) is getting more specific about its standards for Ultra High-Definition TVs and projectors. Building on its initial 2012 specs, it requires UHD TVs to have: resolution of 3840 x 2160 pixels; aspect ratio of 16:9 or more; upscaling of HD to UHD; one or more HDMI inputs supporting 3840 x 2160 pixels at 24, 30, and 60 frames per second; one or more such inputs with HDCP 2.2 (or equivalent) copyright protection; support for the ITU-R BT. 709 color space or wider colorimetry standards; and a minimum color bit depth of 8 bits.
Some of these standards appear on the surface to be pretty minimal: ITU-R BT. 709 has been around since 1990, and 8-bit color is pretty basic stuff in computers. “We intend for these naming requirements to be useful today and not aspirational,” explains Brian Markwalter, CEA’s senior VP of research and standards.

“ITU video format standards like BT. 709 and BT. 2020 are big, generational video format standards. They cover many characteristics of video, including pixel count, color space, and frame rate. It takes years for the entire capture, production, distribution, and display industries to migrate. Think about how long it took for all the infrastructure to change over from analog SD to digital HD.”

As for color bit depth, “we understand that chipsets are migrating from 8-bit to 10-bit. I anticipate you will see plenty of 10-bit UHD TVs out there, but we are on the front of that curve.”

Mindful of the streaming juggernaut, CEA also revealed requirements for connected UHD TVs. They must meet the standards above, decode IP- delivered video compressed using the latest HEVC compression as well as other standard encoders, handle multichannel audio, support IP-delivered video through services or apps, and work with Wi-Fi, Ethernet, or other connections.
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post #5577 of 18026 Old 10-23-2014, 07:01 AM
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**UPDATE** 70" Vizio P Series TV is no longer available on the Best Buy web site. I'm hoping this is just temporary **UPDATE**

I'd like to buy it from Best Buy because of the 5% Shop Discover cashback and the 10% movers coupon. I tried to buy it all last week and it wouldn't go through. CS kept telling me it was in stock but the website would never let me complete the purchase. Since they took it down from the website this the current CS response:


Thank you for contacting Best Buy.

I'm sorry to hear that VIZIO - P-Series - 70" Class (69-1/2" Diag.) - LED - 2160p - 240Hz - Smart - 4K Ultra HD TV with model number P702UI-B3 is not available in our website. Let me give you some information.

After coordinating with the proper channels in charge of overseeing our supply production and distribution, it appears we do not currently have a definite timetable on when the said item will be made available. At this juncture, we are still looking for the best business partners that can support our growing distribution list. Please know we are working on making it available for you in the near future. Until then, we'll be sure to keep you posted for any updates.

I would appreciate if you could visit our website from time to time to check on the availability of the item.
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post #5578 of 18026 Old 10-23-2014, 07:07 AM
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About half a dozen times netflix app has locked up the entire tv(50in) and had to unplug it to get it to respond. hasn't happened on the other 4k sets.

I'm hard wired with 50Mb/s. Speed test was fine as always
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post #5579 of 18026 Old 10-23-2014, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by traumadisaster View Post
About half a dozen times netflix app has locked up the entire tv(50in) and had to unplug it to get it to respond. hasn't happened on the other 4k sets.

I'm hard wired with 50Mb/s. Speed test was fine as always
I own the 50" as well and i had netflix completely mess up everything to the point where i had to restart the tv to get it back to normal. I played a 4k movie on Netflix and it made my TV spaz out making the screen all green or blue.
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post #5580 of 18026 Old 10-23-2014, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by phases View Post
Found it, here ya go.

Good luck!

[link]

Edit: HA, that's you. My bad.. sorry
Hahaha! I read your other reply, got excited started looking back through the thread and it took me longer than I care to admit to realize you were talking about my first post.

I've been lurking on this thread for a few weeks, and was suprised I hadn't seen this other person that had the same issue.

For now, I'm just going to use netflix through XB1, but I'm hoping to get it figured out soon.
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