Panasonic CX850U Anticipation Thead - Page 23 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #661 of 1664 Old 05-28-2015, 07:11 PM
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I've been combing through the online manual and startup guide to try to get some additional information. It looks like this set does support 4K @ 4:4:4 and it says the HDMI ports are 'level A' which is supposed to be 18gb. There is apparently a special '4:4:4 Pure Direct' input mode for both 4K and 1080p, I'm not sure if you have to turn it on each time you want to connect a 4K 4:4:4 source though or if it can intelligently figure it out, it seems like a bit of a PITA if you'd have to dig into the menus based on individual sources.

You can apparently set it up try to intelligently improve 1080p content (Resolution Remaster function) or just straight upscale x4 (1080p pixel x 4pixels mode).

There are a couple different color improvement settings, 'Vivid Color' which apparently only boosts green and blue, and 'Color Remaster/Rec 2020 Color Remaster' which according to the manual "reproduces vivid images with the appropriate process for the panel color gamut and input signal'. I'm not 100% sure what that does.

There's 'Adaptive Backlight Control' which "Adjusts backlight levels to make dark areas of the picture appear more natural" which I believe may be the setting to turn on local dimming, and which is required to be on to turn on "Dynamic Range Remaster" which "Reproduces bright areas of the image to be closer to the original luminance and contrast, and improves picture impact" which sounds like the 'HDR-ize everything' setting.

There also seem to be a huge set of 'pro' level settings for those who want to deep-dive into the menus and adjust RGBCMY, gamma, etc, in detail.

There are some confusingly contradictory parts, under '4K Sources' it says that the HDMI ports support 4K input, but under 'connecting DVD, Blu-Ray, etc' it says that they only support 1080p input, I'm assuming that the latter segment was perhaps cut and pasted from a previous 1080p set.

It does look like the Digital Audio Out supports 5.1 sound, but can anyone who has a set confirm that it will do 5.1 Dolby Digital from the Netflix and Amazon apps?

I can't find anything about VP9 support for 4K YouTube, does anyone have an answer there?
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post #662 of 1664 Old 05-28-2015, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TuteTibiImperes View Post
I can't find anything about VP9 support for 4K YouTube, does anyone have an answer there?
FWIW: http://9to5google.com/2014/01/02/you...onic-and-sony/
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post #663 of 1664 Old 05-28-2015, 09:23 PM
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I've seen worse, but the screen is bad for reflections. For reasons I don't understand folks round here seem to have a fetish for glossy.
In a darkened room, glossy screens will provide a better perceived contrast ratio vs. semi-glossy or matte.
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post #664 of 1664 Old 05-28-2015, 09:53 PM
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In a darkened room, glossy screens will provide a better perceived contrast ratio vs. semi-glossy or matte.
They also seem to 'smooth out' the picture and make it pop a bit more. I'm a fan of glossy screens. I almost bought a Mitsubishi Laservue a couple of years ago, but the big thing that held me back was the textured sort of fresnel style matte screen, it just made everything look dull and old.
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post #665 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuteTibiImperes View Post
There is apparently a special '4:4:4 Pure Direct' input mode for both 4K and 1080p, I'm not sure if you have to turn it on each time you want to connect a 4K 4:4:4 source though or if it can intelligently figure it out, it seems like a bit of a PITA if you'd have to dig into the menus based on individual sources.
The 4:4:4 Pure Direct mode dates back to Panny's 1080p plasma days. You can read a bit about how it operates in the real world in HDTVtest's review of the TX-P65VT65B. Anyhow, one of the better explanations I read was from avForum member NickInWiltshire who said in this post:

Quote:
The gist is that if the HDMI input contains a 1080p 4:4:4 signal then the set bypasses the logic which normally deinterlaces and scales it so avoiding any unnecessary processing (which might reduce the chroma bandwidth). So if you've got the detail it holds on to it. However blu-ray is 4:2:0 so if you get a 4:4:4 signal from a blu-ray player it has been invented by the box anyway.
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You can apparently set it up try to intelligently improve 1080p content (Resolution Remaster function) or just straight upscale x4 (1080p pixel x 4pixels mode).
This is going to be fun to play with.

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Originally Posted by TuteTibiImperes View Post
There are a couple different color improvement settings, 'Vivid Color' which apparently only boosts green and blue, and 'Color Remaster/Rec 2020 Color Remaster' which according to the manual "reproduces vivid images with the appropriate process for the panel color gamut and input signal'. I'm not 100% sure what that does.

There's 'Adaptive Backlight Control' which "Adjusts backlight levels to make dark areas of the picture appear more natural" which I believe may be the setting to turn on local dimming, and which is required to be on to turn on "Dynamic Range Remaster" which "Reproduces bright areas of the image to be closer to the original luminance and contrast, and improves picture impact" which sounds like the 'HDR-ize everything' setting.
It never surprises me when professional reviewers turn all this stuff either completely off or at their lowest setting in order to achieve the best PQ. For example, HDTVtest found in their review of the 55AX902B, that the best setting for Adaptive BL Control was "'Min' . . . to substantially improve black-level performance without introducing excessive artefacts."

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There also seem to be a huge set of 'pro' level settings for those who want to deep-dive into the menus and adjust RGBCMY, gamma, etc, in detail.
More fun . . . though I'm likely to leave these options to the ISF calibrator.

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It does look like the Digital Audio Out supports 5.1 sound, but can anyone who has a set confirm that it will do 5.1 Dolby Digital from the Netflix and Amazon apps?
According to this, Panasonic TV's do output 5.1 for Netflix. It remains to be seen whether the Amazon app will be featured. If it is, according to this response, it too should output 5.1 as long as "the content you are playing has 5.1 Dolby Digital surround sound embedded into it.".
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post #666 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 07:58 AM
 
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This looks like THE best TV to get this year.


I've always held their TVs in high regards and have had Panasonic plasmas for years now. Recently have been trying to find a worthy replacement for my S60 which started buzzing ridiculously loud, and the LCDs of 2015 all seem to have the same problems as they did 10 years ago... Clouding, comparatively bad black levels, poor motion resolution.


Only ones that come close are ridiculously priced.


But man, FALD 4K with wide color and HDR for ~3,500? (probably less in store)


Incredible. Price of admission for that tech in competing brands is upwards of $5-6,000. That + Panasonic's brand value (IMO anyways) means I'm just going to return this Sony X850C and wait a month or so and pick one of these up. Seems like it ticks all the right boxes from specs to price.
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post #667 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
This looks like THE best TV to get this year.


I've always held their TVs in high regards and have had Panasonic plasmas for years now. Recently have been trying to find a worthy replacement for my S60 which started buzzing ridiculously loud, and the LCDs of 2015 all seem to have the same problems as they did 10 years ago... Clouding, comparatively bad black levels, poor motion resolution.


Only ones that come close are ridiculously priced.


But man, FALD 4K with wide color and HDR for ~3,500? (probably less in store)


Incredible. Price of admission for that tech in competing brands is upwards of $5-6,000. That + Panasonic's brand value (IMO anyways) means I'm just going to return this Sony X850C and wait a month or so and pick one of these up. Seems like it ticks all the right boxes from specs to price.

I agree with you but aren't you happy with the Sony? What don't you like about it?

Media room- 65" Panasonic FZ950 OLED, Pioneer Elite VSX-90, Panasonic UBD-820 4K, Klipsch Gallery G28's, Klipsch Sub 12, Klipsch RS-52 II, Optik HD cable

Living room- Sony 4K 79XBRX900B, Onkyo RC-360,HTPC,Klipsch Reference R-62II,Rc52II,PS4
Gaming room -Panasonic ST60, PS3, Wii
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post #668 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 09:53 AM
 
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I agree with you but aren't you happy with the Sony? What don't you like about it?
1) Clouding
2) Edge Lit - Bad quality edge lighting at that.
3) Bad uniformity
4) No HDR




The X850C really is just a souped up old school LCD TV, but fails to address any of the problems that have plagued the tech for years.


This Panasonic looks to be as close to OLED as possible without actually being OLED in addition to being future proofed with all 3 pillars of UHD Blu Ray - 4K, color, and HDR.


I brought the 55 ec9300 OLED home for a week, thought it was great, but 55 inches is too small for me and 65 inch is way out of my price range... So this panny seems perfect.
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post #669 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 09:57 AM
 
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I'm very curious what the HDR remaster looks like.

There are certainly going to be lots of ShaderFX plugins coming out to do that stuff at the computer end, for gamers, but if it's baked into the TV and decent quality, that's much easier. Sure, it's fake HDR, but it just might be worthwhile doing.
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post #670 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
This looks like THE best TV to get this year.


I've always held their TVs in high regards and have had Panasonic plasmas for years now. Recently have been trying to find a worthy replacement for my S60 which started buzzing ridiculously loud, and the LCDs of 2015 all seem to have the same problems as they did 10 years ago... Clouding, comparatively bad black levels, poor motion resolution.


Only ones that come close are ridiculously priced.


But man, FALD 4K with wide color and HDR for ~3,500? (probably less in store)


Incredible. Price of admission for that tech in competing brands is upwards of $5-6,000. That + Panasonic's brand value (IMO anyways) means I'm just going to return this Sony X850C and wait a month or so and pick one of these up. Seems like it ticks all the right boxes from specs to price.
It's an extra special deal for Canadians that will likely pay the same $3500 as the U.S. (despite our dollar being work 20% less).

For interested Canadians, the closest flat panels from LG (uf9500 @$5K), Samsung (js8500 @$5300), and Sony (930C @$5K) are all $1500 premium or higher.

i personally have a few concerns such as notable banding on the 2014 sets, and call me crazy but I still have a hard time believing it's FALD (despite evidence suggesting it). Can't wait for hands on impressions that should be coming in the next few weeks.
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post #671 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
1) Clouding
2) Edge Lit - Bad quality edge lighting at that.
3) Bad uniformity
4) No HDR




The X850C really is just a souped up old school LCD TV, but fails to address any of the problems that have plagued the tech for years.


This Panasonic looks to be as close to OLED as possible without actually being OLED in addition to being future proofed with all 3 pillars of UHD Blu Ray - 4K, color, and HDR.


I brought the 55 ec9300 OLED home for a week, thought it was great, but 55 inches is too small for me and 65 inch is way out of my price range... So this panny seems perfect.

I know, It is too bad that they still inherent this flaws years later, You have to pay an arm and a leg to get close to plasma, just to get excellent uniformity & no flashlighting. Hopefully this CX850 doesn't disappoint, it has the features and price right, no tv is perfect but hope it performs as good as it sounds.

Media room- 65" Panasonic FZ950 OLED, Pioneer Elite VSX-90, Panasonic UBD-820 4K, Klipsch Gallery G28's, Klipsch Sub 12, Klipsch RS-52 II, Optik HD cable

Living room- Sony 4K 79XBRX900B, Onkyo RC-360,HTPC,Klipsch Reference R-62II,Rc52II,PS4
Gaming room -Panasonic ST60, PS3, Wii
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post #672 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 10:51 AM
 
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It's an extra special deal for Canadians that will likely pay the same $3500 as the U.S. (despite our dollar being work 20% less).

For interested Canadians, the closest flat panels from LG (uf9500 @$5K), Samsung (js8500 @$5300), and Sony (930C @$5K) are all $1500 premium or higher.

i personally have a few concerns such as notable banding on the 2014 sets, and call me crazy but I still have a hard time believing it's FALD (despite evidence suggesting it). Can't wait for hands on impressions that should be coming in the next few weeks.
Usually they try to ream us Canucks with a 20-40% price increase over the US (sometimes more) for new products, on TOP of the exchange rate.

Best Buy Canada is seriously bending consumers over the pommel horse with their outrageous price gouging.
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post #673 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 10:54 AM
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call me crazy but I still have a hard time believing it's FALD (despite evidence suggesting it). Can't wait for hands on impressions that should be coming in the next few weeks.
I don't think you are crazy given the lack of evidence suggesting it. But I'm tired of urging caution. People really want to believe. I hope they don't end up disappointed. I'm interested either way, but if it's just a great or above average edge-lit implementation as I expect, $3,500 for the 65" is not the bargain of the year. Now, $3,500 USD "MSRP" with a holiday sale down to $3,199 or $3,099 makes it more competitive with a $3k 65JS8500. But Panasonic is starting from such a hole in terms of distribution and presence in the US market, hard to imagine even a $3.1k price is going to move a lot of units.

Also hoping it's only a few weeks before somebody has a North American CX850 in hand. The CX800 popped on shop.panasonic.com almost 3 weeks ago and no hint yet of US availability there or anywhere else.

Sorry to be Debbie Downer.
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post #674 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 11:17 AM
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Too many sources have said it is direct lit so I doubt it is edge-lit but I am hesitant to take that as full on fact. Now assuming the sources are correct, the question then is how many LEDs it has and how well the dimming system is both in zone count and algorithm.

I do think that it is prudent to temper expectations though.

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post #675 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 11:28 AM
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Too many sources have said it is direct lit so I doubt it is edge-lit. The question though is how many LEDs it has and how well the dimming system is both in zone count and algorithm.

I do think that it is prudent to temper expectations though. I remember a year ago there was the thread here for the Toshiba L7400 and the expectations got so high about how it was going to have a couple hundred LEDs and 100+ zones and be amazing and it came out and was incredibly mediocre.
I'm cautiously optimistic at this point. Everything looks good on paper, and the lower series set received positive reviews.

I'm going to wait for a few reviews to hit, but if everything is as advertised I will .ist likely be buying one of these. If new features come out in a few years that require a new set this could always make the move to the bedroom. I have a 17 year old JVC 32" CRT in there now, so even a hand-me-down from the living room would be a major improvement.
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post #676 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 11:39 AM
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I'm set to buy the 55" version as long as it is direct lit with minimal to no clouding or major banding, doesn't have a very high lag figure like the AX900 and has a solid native black level which is more important to me than the local dimming. Like you stated, the lower models have had solid reviews so far in those areas so I would hope this one does as well.

Hopefully here in Canada we won't get any large delay from when this will be out in the U.S.
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post #677 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 12:26 PM
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It seems like almost every TV which has not yet hit the market is the best TV in it's price point. Then when they arrive people are dissapointed that they don't live up to the hype even though they are good TVs for what they are.

I hope it lives up to your expectations but it sort of feels like expectations are a little too lofty in this thread.
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post #678 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 12:35 PM
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... it sort of feels like expectations are a little too lofty in this thread.
Understatement of the year!
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post #679 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I hope it lives up to your expectations but it sort of feels like expectations are a little too lofty in this thread.
Do you know some bit of negative news about the 850 we don't? Regardless, it's an anticipation thread. What sense would there be for everyone to be subdued in how they express that.
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post #680 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 01:43 PM
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Any ideas on why Panasonic is only including 3 HDMI inputs and no DisplayPort?! Seems kind of disappointing! Also, it looks like the local dimming is some sort of edge lit dimming and not full array?


http://shop.panasonic.com/tvs/4k-tvs...=1&cgid=4k-tvs
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post #681 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 01:57 PM
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Any ideas on why Panasonic is only including 3 HDMI inputs and no DisplayPort?! Seems kind of disappointing! Also, it looks like the local dimming is some sort of edge lit dimming and not full array?
That's kinda like the Sony HDMI receivers question. I don't think anybody outside the design team knows why. All we can assume is that they thought it was the best tradeoff of costs vs. what would sell. I, too, was a little surprised they dropped DP. But I'm sure when they looked at the competitors it didn't look like a "must have" feature.

As to that image, I think all we can infer is that it doesn't make the case for FALD stronger. In any case, it's probably just an artistic interpretation not a picture of a real backlight.
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post #682 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 02:03 PM
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I find it funny how many people are downing this tv now that it's so close to release. If the tv is 3500$ and fald Samsung and Sony got a lot of price reductions to do. Their tvs are overpriced. The only other TV that would make me not buy this one is the vizio r series
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post #683 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
Usually they try to ream us Canucks with a 20-40% price increase over the US (sometimes more) for new products, on TOP of the exchange rate.

Best Buy Canada is seriously bending consumers over the pommel horse with their outrageous price gouging.

Worst Buy Canada will shut down for sure (I think). The worst part is that they destroyed my Future Shop..........1st A&B Sound goes then FS !!! Bad if you like good equipment at smoking deals..............at least I still have Visions to get some stuff.
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post #684 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 02:25 PM
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Rgb32, read the last couple pages, all of this has been thoroughly discussed.
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post #685 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Any ideas on why Panasonic is only including 3 HDMI inputs and no DisplayPort?! Seems kind of disappointing! Also, it looks like the local dimming is some sort of edge lit dimming and not full array?
The pre-release information, as opposed to mere conjecture, available thus far overwhelmingly points to FALD notwithstanding this image.

Panasonic Introduces Wide Color Phosphor 4K UHD TVs at CES 2015

Panasonic says CX850 gets full-array local dimming, VA (not IPS) panel, 3D compatible.

Full LED backlighting of the CX800 and CR850 Panasonic ...

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post #686 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 02:31 PM
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If the tv is 3500$ and fald Samsung and Sony got a lot of price reductions to do.
AVSF posters are just not representative of the market so our excitement counts for nothing. Given that Samsung and Sony have nearly infinitely better distribution and availability, it's hard to see how whatever this set is and however little they sell it for will push Sony or Samsung pricing much. Maybe things are about to change, but the Best Buys I've been in this past year (four or five of them) devote maybe 100x as much space and promotion to Sony and Samsung. The 65AX800 was kinda hidden in the corner if they had one at all. No "Panasonic Experience" or any of that hoohaw. Vizio had more prominent placement at every one. So did LG. And, near as I can find, the Panasonic isn't available anywhere else besides BB and shop.panasonic.com.

I'm not down on the set. Never have been. I'm very anxious to get price and availability as well as a few real-world reports on the North American TC-65CX850. Trigger finger is itching. Just trying to be realistic and deal in evidence-based facts.
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post #687 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 02:35 PM
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The pre-release information, as opposed to mere conjecture, available thus far overwhelmingly points to FALD
Unless it's information directly sourced from Panasonic.
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post #688 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dick W View Post
Unless it's information directly sourced from Panasonic.
Both AVS senior writer Mark Henninger, imagic, and c|net's David Katzmaier have indicated that their information came from Panasonic. On the other hand, no similarly credible individuals have claimed a company representative told them that the CX850 would be edge lit.
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Last edited by marcuslaw; 05-29-2015 at 03:02 PM.
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post #689 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 03:16 PM
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99.9% owners manual said full array on the 65"
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post #690 of 1664 Old 05-29-2015, 03:20 PM
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People may know more than Panasonic is willing to say/put in writing in public.

Why Panasonic wouldn't want to publicly brag about such a feature--press releases, CES press conferences, the product web pages now that we have two of them--if they had it is an interesting question. The second feature listed on the Panasonic US web page for AX900 is "Full Array LED … evenly distributing LEDs across the entire backside of the display". Maybe it's just a sign of the weakness of Panasonic's US television marketing effort? Then again if that's true those are probably the same people than Mark and David are talking to.

I can certainly understand why Panasonic would avoid the words "edge-lit". This tread is testimony to the marketing power of the two words Panasonic hasn't publicly used in discussing the CX850: "Full Array".

I'd love someone to get one and confirm it's FALD. I'll happily eat that crow.
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