Shared calibration settings measured - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 8 Old 01-13-2015, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Shared calibration settings measured

Today I had a chance to evaluate two identical Sharp 80LE650U TVs at Cleveland Plasma/AV. In addition to calibrating the sets, I also wanted to experiment with sharing settings and see just how close or off base the results would be on a modern LED LCD. Sharing picture settings appears to be a very popular way to get calibrated, or near calibrated, results on a new TV; but how well does it work?

The sets had nearly identical serial numbers: C407825362 and C407825360. I began by calibrating 650U #1 , and the results can be seen below, titled "display 1 after". It was not easy getting that result, because the 650U's 10 point white balance adjustment, found in the advanced picture menu, nearly ran out of range making the required adjustments. Thankfully, the grayscale tracking, white balance, and gamma turned out very well. Here are the settings used to achieve these results, listed in order:
12,32,0,0,0,1
off
cms hue: -6,-3,-2,-3,11,3
cms sat: 12,3,7,5,6,4
cms val: -3,0,-8,0,-6,-1
CT: 10 pt: on (1:0,-6,5 2:2,-12,-30 3: -2,-12,-18 4:-4,-16,-25 5: -5,-17,-28 6:-9,-19,-30 7: -8,-20,-27 8: -5,-19,-27 9: -1,-17,-29 10:0,-13,-30
off,gamma -1,std,low,off

I recorded every one of those settings, from the basic brightness/contrast/color to the advanced 10 point and CMS controls, and moved my gear over to the second 650U and put those settings into it. I then measured the second display with those copied settings, using the same equipment and methodology, and the results are shown below, titled "display 2 copied settings". Instead of the white balance being a nicely calibrated D65, there was a distinctly bluish cast. The gamma was surprisingly high, resulting in darker shadow detail, so dark objects in the image tended to sink down into the black background. The white balance delta error averaged 3.68, with a maximum of 8.31, which is a visibly obvious error.

When I began to calibrate the second 650U for real, I found that, unlike the first 650U, the second did not have enough range in it's advanced picture controls to properly calibrate the white balance and gamma. Even in warm, the white balance peaked at up to 9300K, and the gamma started extremely high at the low end and decreased at the bright end. Even with the controls maxed out, the white balance was a little too blue and some mid-tone levels were over/under-emphasized in brightness. Correcting it required going into the 650U's factory service menu and adjusting it's 6 point control. I used the service menu sparingly, just to get things closer, and then used the normal advanced picture menu controls to finish the calibration. The results can be seen in "display 2 after". We can see it's measured performance is very similar to "display 1 after", but the settings required to get there were wildly different in the 10 point controls, and slightly different in the CMS controls:

10,32,0,0,0,1
off
cms hue -5,-2,-4,-2,11,3
cms sat 14,4,6,2,4,3
cms val -3,0,-7,1,-7,-1
ct 10 pt on (1: -20,-25,-18 2: -11,-21,-27 3:-2,-8,-10 4: -2,-9,-15 5: 1,-5,-12 6: 0,-5,-8 7: 0,-8,-7 8: 2,-6,-8 9: 3,-6,-13 10: 0,-6,-15
off,gamma 0,std,low,off

In conclusion, two identical displays, with serial numbers within 1 digit, show distinctly different performance with the same settings; so much so that the second display could not be considered "calibrated" even in the loosest terms. In addition, it was interesting and disappointing to see that, while the first display could be calibrated well using the available controls, the second display could not and had to have some adjustments made in the factory service menu to get it close enough to then finish with the normal picture controls.

I've listed the settings used above to show the difference in required settings. To use them in another 650U will not get you a calibrated picture; it will, more likely, just be "different."
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post #2 of 8 Old 01-13-2015, 04:39 PM
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I've heard this, especially with Sharps, first from Robert B. when he calibrated my 844 and then from a few others. Mine just happened to be one of the good ones


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post #3 of 8 Old 01-13-2015, 05:02 PM
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Thanks Chad for taking the time to do this. Even though your sample set is small it does illustrate what a lot of us have been saying for a very long time about sharing settings to "calibrate" your tv.
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post #4 of 8 Old 02-01-2015, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
Today I had a chance to evaluate two identical Sharp 80LE650U TVs at Cleveland Plasma/AV. In addition to calibrating the sets, I also wanted to experiment with sharing settings and see just how close or off base the results would be on a modern LED LCD. Sharing picture settings appears to be a very popular way to get calibrated, or near calibrated, results on a new TV; but how well does it work?

In conclusion, two identical displays, with serial numbers within 1 digit, show distinctly different performance with the same settings; so much so that the second display could not be considered "calibrated" even in the loosest terms. In addition, it was interesting and disappointing to see that, while the first display could be calibrated well using the available controls, the second display could not and had to have some adjustments made in the factory service menu to get it close enough to then finish with the normal picture controls.
Hey Chad.....Chris Heinonen of "Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity" and I did a similar experiment a while back...but this was with 2 Panasonic VT60's

"Sharing Calibration Settings: Results Compared"

Nice to see another example of this...Great Job

Later
RayJr
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post #5 of 8 Old 02-02-2015, 06:15 AM
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I just redid my game room last week, so I now have two "identical" 42" units as the side TVs. I haven't had time to full-on calibrate them, yet...I've only roughed them in by sight so far. It'll be interesting to see how far off these two units are when I do a real calibration on them.

FWIW, roughly adjusting one of them and applying the exact settings to the other yields pretty similar performance.
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post #6 of 8 Old 02-04-2015, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
Today I had a chance to evaluate two identical Sharp 80LE650U TVs at Cleveland Plasma/AV. In addition to calibrating the sets, I also wanted to experiment with sharing settings and see just how close or off base the results would be on a modern LED LCD. Sharing picture settings appears to be a very popular way to get calibrated, or near calibrated, results on a new TV; but how well does it work?

The sets had nearly identical serial numbers: C407825362 and C407825360. I began by calibrating 650U #1 , and the results can be seen below, titled "display 1 after". It was not easy getting that result, because the 650U's 10 point white balance adjustment, found in the advanced picture menu, nearly ran out of range making the required adjustments. Thankfully, the grayscale tracking, white balance, and gamma turned out very well. Here are the settings used to achieve these results, listed in order:
12,32,0,0,0,1
off
cms hue: -6,-3,-2,-3,11,3
cms sat: 12,3,7,5,6,4
cms val: -3,0,-8,0,-6,-1
CT: 10 pt: on (1:0,-6,5 2:2,-12,-30 3: -2,-12,-18 4:-4,-16,-25 5: -5,-17,-28 6:-9,-19,-30 7: -8,-20,-27 8: -5,-19,-27 9: -1,-17,-29 10:0,-13,-30
off,gamma -1,std,low,off

I recorded every one of those settings, from the basic brightness/contrast/color to the advanced 10 point and CMS controls, and moved my gear over to the second 650U and put those settings into it. I then measured the second display with those copied settings, using the same equipment and methodology, and the results are shown below, titled "display 2 copied settings". Instead of the white balance being a nicely calibrated D65, there was a distinctly bluish cast. The gamma was surprisingly high, resulting in darker shadow detail, so dark objects in the image tended to sink down into the black background. The white balance delta error averaged 3.68, with a maximum of 8.31, which is a visibly obvious error.

When I began to calibrate the second 650U for real, I found that, unlike the first 650U, the second did not have enough range in it's advanced picture controls to properly calibrate the white balance and gamma. Even in warm, the white balance peaked at up to 9300K, and the gamma started extremely high at the low end and decreased at the bright end. Even with the controls maxed out, the white balance was a little too blue and some mid-tone levels were over/under-emphasized in brightness. Correcting it required going into the 650U's factory service menu and adjusting it's 6 point control. I used the service menu sparingly, just to get things closer, and then used the normal advanced picture menu controls to finish the calibration. The results can be seen in "display 2 after". We can see it's measured performance is very similar to "display 1 after", but the settings required to get there were wildly different in the 10 point controls, and slightly different in the CMS controls:

10,32,0,0,0,1
off
cms hue -5,-2,-4,-2,11,3
cms sat 14,4,6,2,4,3
cms val -3,0,-7,1,-7,-1
ct 10 pt on (1: -20,-25,-18 2: -11,-21,-27 3:-2,-8,-10 4: -2,-9,-15 5: 1,-5,-12 6: 0,-5,-8 7: 0,-8,-7 8: 2,-6,-8 9: 3,-6,-13 10: 0,-6,-15
off,gamma 0,std,low,off

In conclusion, two identical displays, with serial numbers within 1 digit, show distinctly different performance with the same settings; so much so that the second display could not be considered "calibrated" even in the loosest terms. In addition, it was interesting and disappointing to see that, while the first display could be calibrated well using the available controls, the second display could not and had to have some adjustments made in the factory service menu to get it close enough to then finish with the normal picture controls.

I've listed the settings used above to show the difference in required settings. To use them in another 650U will not get you a calibrated picture; it will, more likely, just be "different."
Great work Chad, the shared settings MYTH is just one that will never die sadly. I am going to make note of this post when I get in one of those debates in the future.
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post #7 of 8 Old 02-19-2015, 08:06 PM
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This is pretty darn awesome. Good work Chad B.
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post #8 of 8 Old 02-02-2016, 07:44 AM
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Makes you wonder just how Sharp comes up with the Service menu settings?
In the Service Menus, were both sets identical re values?
If so, then Sharp obviously isn't doing precise calibrations for the SM, only values written down on a plasticized piece of paper.
If not, then something must be wrong with their calibration equipment, or what they were trying to obtain as an end result.
Serial numbers may be close, but sets may be off different assembly lines, and the people who box them put the labels on as they are received. So # 1 came off assembly line A, and the next one the boxers received was off assembly line B. But the labels come off a continuous roll.
Lastly - as we all know - Manufacturer's aren't looking for an accurate calibration, but one that will try and give a competitive edge in the show room!

Why I look at my 100 and 30 % calibrated results. If within reason, leave the SM values alone. But +30, and as you mentioned, almost out of range, then definite SM adjust to be made. I adjust my SM WBs to give 30 and 100% values of no more than +/- 3 - even better if they can be at `0'.

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